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Crispy™ Is Kinkmaker gud?

  • Thread starter Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal
  • Start date

Is Pathfinger: Kinkmaker a gud game that is worth buying/playing?

  • Yes, it is good

  • No, it's shit

  • I am ambivalent

  • Haven't played it

  • Kingmaker


Results are only viewable after voting.
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Sacred82

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He is good at what he does, throwing nasty high level high DC spells. I'm not crazy about him, but I'd certainly take him over Amiri build as a barbarian.

Amiri stats:

Str 16
Dex 13
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 10

not terribly min-maxed, but certainly very workable for a Barbarian. One more point of Dex and you're good for medium armor. She doesn't have maxed Barb attributes, but you could multi with Fighter, in which case she already has perfect plate armor Dex (and maybe feats with a Dodge prerequisite). Could also multi with Ranger for an effective archer (+2 stat equipment is availabe early on). All of that is readily apparent to a new player.

Harrim stats:

Str 14
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 18
Cha 10

I look at that and go "nop, a 14 Strength is usually bad news on a Cleric in D&D video games". This is probably even more true for Kingmaker because encumbrance based travel speed is one of the more interesting 'difficulty affecting' options. Also, for domains, Destructive Smite and Touch of Chaos aren't something I'd want on a low Strength Cleric. And 8 Dex, another oopsie. High Wisdom r gud, but it's more important for debuffs than buffs, and how effective exactly is a debuffing Cleric compared to a CC Druid or Wizard? Not very much probably. So yeah, all things considered, I look at Harrim and I think that this just doesn't cut it.

And what infodumps? Unless you actually ask him questions, the only time you get anything out of him is during his quests, just like any other NPC.

Uh... yeah. The 'only times' you get information from your companions is when you talk to them or when they decide to talk to you. Your point?

And I've been through his quests so I really don't know why they would bug you so much. Show him the error of his ways? Ugh, no thanks, I try to avoid playing team therapist as much as I can. If Harrim wants to be a depressed cleric of weird god, he can knock him self out.

Yup, I don't enjoy that role much either, unless I feel like I've already gotten everything I could out of all other characters. Exactly my point.

Also, like with Nok Nok, yeah if you dig Harrim's stats and you've found ways to make him shine with those stats, and you don't mind having an incoherent whiner in your party, go for it.
 
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Bah, he is great in the stat most important for a cleric, and his strength is only 2 lower than Amiri's. He can certainly carry heavy armor, shield and all his gear without heavy encumbrance right from the start, and in chapter two there are belts available than boost both strength and dex, perfect for him. Meanwhile, Amiri has her idiotic sword, the one that carries attack penalty, prevents her from using a shield, and wastes one her feats. With 13 dex, medium armor and no shield the only thing her barbarian ass is good for is getting knocked down on, repeatedly, Harrim with his 8 dex is still way better at staying on his feet than her. Which is why the first thing I do with her is declare her 1st level class and feat a sunk cost, make her a two-handed fighter and give her a reach weapon and heavy armor.

And I still think you are really overreacting about Harrim's personality. So he starts as a bit of a depressing whiner that everyone tells to fuck off, and ends maybe slightly less depressing, and that's ok, not every character has to to have a deep, serious and life changing arc. At least he is not a scottish accented dwarven stereotype. You say you don't enjoy giving NPCs interventions, but then what did you want to happen? How would you show him the error of his ways, by making him go back to Torag? Because I'd prefer a depressing whiner over that cliché.
 

Cael

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Amiri uses a bastardsword. That is a martial weapon when wielded two-handed. It is only when you want to wield it one-handed that you need the exotic weapon profficiency. Let me guess: Paiturd fucked it up. Again. For the umpteenth time.
 

Haplo

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It's not like earlier DnD games, like NWN, had this right.

A justified simplification IMO. At least now you can two hand it (and other non light weapons) and get relevant bonuses.
 

Cael

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It's not like earlier DnD games, like NWN, had this right.

A justified simplification IMO. At least now you can two hand it (and other non light weapons) and get relevant bonuses.
No. NWN got it right. If you take the exotic weapon profficiency, you wield the bastardsword in one hand (they got rid of the wield in 2 hands altogether). Paiturd made it so that you still need 2 hands to wield a bastardsword with the feat.
 
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Sacred82

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Bah, he is great in the stat most important for a cleric, and his strength is only 2 lower than Amiri's. He can certainly carry heavy armor, shield and all his gear without heavy encumbrance right from the start, and in chapter two there are belts available than boost both strength and dex, perfect for him.

Amiri might not be wearing heavy armor, but if she does, increasing strength is exactly what you want to do for her. Equipping Harrim with Strength enhancing equipment is a second rate choice, not to mention that his Dex isn't the kind of thing that makes you want to send him into the front lines. Much less if you don't just slap a debuff on enemies and then wade in but you actually want him to perform a support role.

Meanwhile, Amiri has her idiotic sword, the one that carries attack penalty, prevents her from using a shield, and wastes one her feats.

lol you would gear up Harrim contrary to his stats, but you're too autistic to customize Amiri's equipment?

With 13 dex, medium armor and no shield the only thing her barbarian ass is good for is getting knocked down on, repeatedly, Harrim with his 8 dex is still way better at staying on his feet than her. Which is why the first thing I do with her is declare her 1st level class and feat a sunk cost, make her a two-handed fighter and give her a reach weapon and heavy armor.

+2 Dex belt and medium armor and the first attribute point in Dex is fine. Also you can try to defeat your autism and equip her with a shield regardless, it won't bite. Which also means her feat is anything but wasted (if anything we could consider Toughness a waste on a Barb). And how is 1 level of Barbarian a waste on a two-handed Fighter? :lol:

And I still think you are really overreacting about Harrim's personality. So he starts as a bit of a depressing whiner that everyone tells to fuck off, and ends maybe slightly less depressing, and that's ok, not every character has to to have a deep, serious and life changing arc.

Problem is exactly that his bullshit faith is serious business (to him). Also, that's the point of companions. I would have preferred full party creation, but if I have to take companions - with shit stats too boot -, might as well treat them as companions. What offends me btw isn't so much Harrim as a character but the devs' intentions/ lack of understanding of what a companion is. Time waster companions and intentionally annoying companions are a bad idea unless you make up for those things in some way. Contrary to a guy like Tristian, Harrim is completely egocentric or maybe caught up in an autist's struggle with the world. Tristian, annyoning touchy feely Cleric or no, at least tells you things about the game world, which makes him kind of interesting to someone not familiar with Pathfinder. What I at least expected from Harrim is that he would tell me about some wider philosophical/ spiritual/ religious conflict in the world, and not just his personal digestive habits.

At least he is not a scottish accented dwarven stereotype.

ME AXE BE BLOODY READY > I used to be nothing but now I'm nothing in the name of my god

You say you don't enjoy giving NPCs interventions, but then what did you want to happen?

if by interventions you mean an active agenda rather than infodumps, yeah I do enjoy that. But the companion has to be worth it. Harrim is basically talking right past you from the start; the things he talks about are relevant to him, not anyone else.
 
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Oh for fuck sake. Giving Harrim heavy armor, shield and mace is not gearing him up contrary to his stats, that's what his stats were made for. He starts with that bloody equipment. Meanwhile, the best way to make use of the barbarian with a huge sword is to multiclass her to something else and not use that sword. And again, what did you want from his quest? For him to abandon his faith thanks to your intervention, see the light and go back to worshiping Torag?
 
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Sacred82

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Oh for fuck sake. Giving Harrim heavy armor, shield and mace is not gearing him up contrary to his stats, that's what his stats were made for.

No, but going out of your way to raise his Strength is customizing him against his starting specifications. If I wanted a high Strength Cleric, I wouldn't start with 14 Str. His stats mean he's most efficient as a healer/ buffer in second row. You can absolutely put a shield on him, but he's absolutely not a striker.

And like I said, high Wis makes him more effective as a debuffer, not so much as a buffer. Which makes more sense if he can then wade into melee (or attack effectively from range), and anyway, a Druid or Wiz/ Sorc is more effective crowd control.

Meanwhile, the best way to make use of the barbarian with a huge sword is to multiclass her to something else and not use that sword.

Uhm yeah, but no. Amiri is a plain ass Barbarian, and she's not a spellcaster, which means you're supposed to multiclass her regardless. If she was a kit/ sub-class, that could be a different story, but making her stay in just her plain Barbarian class isn't optimal anyway.

And again, what did you want from his quest? For him to abandon his faith thanks to your intervention, see the light and go back to worshiping Torag?

The impression you immediately get when talking to Harrim is that this man/ dwarf here is obviously confused and needs straightening out. At least he needs help to get his shit together. A person who makes a living as part of some religious community who is spouting illogical nonsense that is either 1) not the official doctrine of that faith or 2) some bullshit retard worldview is basically begging for me to straighten them out or flat-out ignore them. IOW Harrim's ramblings are offensive in the way any doomsday preachings are offensive. You can of course just not engage in conversation with Harrim and just make him do Cleric things, but in that case, I'm even more pissed that I couldn't fill that slot with a character of my own with better stats and domains for his role.
 

Sykar

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It's not like earlier DnD games, like NWN, had this right.

A justified simplification IMO. At least now you can two hand it (and other non light weapons) and get relevant bonuses.
No. NWN got it right. If you take the exotic weapon profficiency, you wield the bastardsword in one hand (they got rid of the wield in 2 hands altogether). Paiturd made it so that you still need 2 hands to wield a bastardsword with the feat.

Huh? You can go sword and board with the feat and I am almost certain that you can go DW as well. Only when the off hand is empty will they wield it two handed. As to Amiri, she has the feat because her sword is ginormous, without the feat she would not be able to use it at all.
 

Daidre

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You can't two-hand one-hander for 1.5 STR bonus in first NWN, only in second.

I don't think I have seen Bastard sword available as two hander with Martial proficiency in any D&D game. Not that I have played all of them of course.
 
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Cael

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You can't two-hand one-hander for 1.5 STR bonus in first NWN, only in second.

I don't think I have seen Bastard sword available as two hander with Martial proficiency in any D&D game. Not that I played all of them of course.
Which is exactly what I said :roll:
 

Cael

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It's not like earlier DnD games, like NWN, had this right.

A justified simplification IMO. At least now you can two hand it (and other non light weapons) and get relevant bonuses.
No. NWN got it right. If you take the exotic weapon profficiency, you wield the bastardsword in one hand (they got rid of the wield in 2 hands altogether). Paiturd made it so that you still need 2 hands to wield a bastardsword with the feat.

Huh? You can go sword and board with the feat and I am almost certain that you can go DW as well. Only when the off hand is empty will they wield it two handed. As to Amiri, she has the feat because her sword is ginormous, without the feat she would not be able to use it at all.
What is that sword classed as?
 

Sykar

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It's not like earlier DnD games, like NWN, had this right.

A justified simplification IMO. At least now you can two hand it (and other non light weapons) and get relevant bonuses.
No. NWN got it right. If you take the exotic weapon profficiency, you wield the bastardsword in one hand (they got rid of the wield in 2 hands altogether). Paiturd made it so that you still need 2 hands to wield a bastardsword with the feat.

Huh? You can go sword and board with the feat and I am almost certain that you can go DW as well. Only when the off hand is empty will they wield it two handed. As to Amiri, she has the feat because her sword is ginormous, without the feat she would not be able to use it at all.
What is that sword classed as?

Ginormous bastard sword if you are referring to Amiri.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
It's not like earlier DnD games, like NWN, had this right.

A justified simplification IMO. At least now you can two hand it (and other non light weapons) and get relevant bonuses.
No. NWN got it right. If you take the exotic weapon profficiency, you wield the bastardsword in one hand (they got rid of the wield in 2 hands altogether). Paiturd made it so that you still need 2 hands to wield a bastardsword with the feat.

Huh? You can go sword and board with the feat and I am almost certain that you can go DW as well. Only when the off hand is empty will they wield it two handed. As to Amiri, she has the feat because her sword is ginormous, without the feat she would not be able to use it at all.
What is that sword classed as?

One handed exotic for regular bastard swords. Amiri's sword (and a few others, such as Ovinrbane)) are Oversized Exotic swords, two-handed.
 

Cael

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It's not like earlier DnD games, like NWN, had this right.

A justified simplification IMO. At least now you can two hand it (and other non light weapons) and get relevant bonuses.
No. NWN got it right. If you take the exotic weapon profficiency, you wield the bastardsword in one hand (they got rid of the wield in 2 hands altogether). Paiturd made it so that you still need 2 hands to wield a bastardsword with the feat.

Huh? You can go sword and board with the feat and I am almost certain that you can go DW as well. Only when the off hand is empty will they wield it two handed. As to Amiri, she has the feat because her sword is ginormous, without the feat she would not be able to use it at all.
What is that sword classed as?

One handed exotic for regular bastard swords. Amiri's sword (and a few others, such as Ovinrbane)) are Oversized Exotic swords, two-handed.
OK. The rules are simple:
1. If you want to wield a bastardsword one handed, you need the exotic weapon feat.
2. If you want to wield the bastardsword two handed, you only need the martial weapon feat.
3. If the bastardsword is oversized by one size (i.e., it is a Large bastardsword for a Medium creature), you wield it two-handed at a -2 penalty. Since it is being wielded two handed, you only need the martial weapon feat to wield it.
4. To wield an oversized bastardsword in one hand, you need the exotic weapon feat AND the Monkey Grip feat, which will give you a cumulative penalty of -4 (-2 for oversized, -2 for Monkey Grip).

Amiri is using option 3. She doesn't need the extra feat as she comes with all martial weapons automatically as she is a barbarian.
 

Cael

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Then it was probably a RP choice for her to have the exotic proficiency. Nothing wrong with that.
No, there isn't. However, I was responding to someone making the claim that her wielding that sword cost her a feat for an inferior weapon. It didn't. It was a RP choice made by paiturd that cost her a feat, or, as is more likely, it was a fuck up by paiturd.
 

Daidre

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I'd took Paizo's Amiri any day over the one we got in P:K. She is properly built barb with 18 STR, Bastard Sword Proficiency and Power Attack. Much better than game's Amiri with 16 STR and Toughness.
 
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Sacred82

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I'd took Paizo's Amiri any day over one that we got in P:K. She is properly build barb with 18 STR, Bastard Sword Proficiency and Power Attack. Much better than game's Amiri with 16 STR and toughness.

what are her other stats? The Amiri we got is kind of flexible which is good considering how few companions there are.
 

Daidre

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Str 18, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10.
Owlcat moved her +2 human bonus to CON.
 

Sykar

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Str 18, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10.
Owlcat moved her +2 human bonus to CON.

I think there is more than one version out of her, but I could be wrong. I would not mind using a tool or a mod to switch that bonus though. She really did not need 16 con, 14 is more than sufficient. With the sword she starts though, you do want as high a strength as a 20 point buy array reasonably allows.
 

Daidre

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I would not say that 2-handed Fighter for her is strictly better than barbarian.
Heart of Ira is available early and removes fatigue from the Rage, plus Lethal Stance bonuses is huge, including crit multiplier with any weapon at lvl 16. She is not weapon bound this way so you can use Glaves or Endless War in the beginning and Greateaxe in last chapters. And has 3-4 levels for multiclassing.
Only thing that bugs me is the lack of Archetype - Mad Dog is ridiculously good.
Same with Jaethal too - vanilla Inq looks pathetic next to 3 cool archetypes available in the game.
 

Shadenuat

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In Kingmaker campaign Amiri is 17 13 14 10 12 8 with exotic proficiency & wf in bastards.
 

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