Crispy™ Is Kinkmaker gud?

[Sykar]

I would not say that 2-handed Fighter for her is strictly better than barbarian.
Heart of Ira is available early and removes fatigue from the Rage, plus Lethal Stance bonuses is huge, including crit multiplier with any weapon at lvl 16. She is not weapon bound this way so you can use Glaves or Endless War in the beginning and Greateaxe in last chapters. And has 3-4 levels for multiclassing.
Only thing that bugs me is the lack of Archetype - Mad Dog is ridiculously good.
Same with Jaethal too - vanilla Inq looks pathetic next to 3 cool archetypes available in the game.

I disagree. Barbarian gives her a lot of benefits to make her a skirmisher which charges all over the field to murderize squishy casters and bowmen. She achieves really high HP during rage, immunity to fear effects(with rage power), absurd damage and the damage reduction helps against the worst hits. Base rage is not even really that good, it is at its upgrade versions where it starts to shine starting with Tireless Rage. Going Lethal Stance also makes her a crit monster.
I never got the complaint that she is useless. She is good if utilized correctly. Figher does not fit her personality one bit. I would not mind her being an Invulnerable Rager though.

 

[Sacred82]

I would not say that 2-handed Fighter for her is strictly better than barbarian.
Heart of Ira is available early and removes fatigue from the Rage, plus Lethal Stance bonuses is huge, including crit multiplier with any weapon at lvl 16. She is not weapon bound this way so you can use Glaves or Endless War in the beginning and Greateaxe in last chapters. And has 3-4 levels for multiclassing.

You can't just go Barb 1/ Fighter X but the other way around too. Overhand Chop is pretty fucking neat and you get it on level 3.

 

[Daidre]

16 level barb needed for crit multiplier on Lethal Stance, and Overhand Chop is not this good next to Vivi/Rogue dip benefits. It was also not working with full attacks for a long time, maybe it does now.

I disagree. Barbarian gives her a lot of benefits to make her a skirmisher which charges all over the field to murderize squishy casters and bowmen.
I never got the complaint that she is useless. She is good if utilized correctly. Figher does not fit her personality one bit. I would not mind her being an Invulnerable Rager though.

Emm, but this is exactly what I wrote - in most cases she is better off as Barbarian.

 

[Shadenuat]

Overhand Chop was never supposed to work with full attacks. Why would you have level 3 ability that almost doubles your damage?

Last time I ran Amiri I mixed some barb, 2 handed and thug. Probably could add some freebooter to finish the soup. Gotta get all of them +2's.

 

[Daidre]

I am not sure but it seems applicable while you have only one attack and upgraded with Backswing for full attacks at lvl 7.
But I was not getting x2 STR to dmg last time I checked it on low levels.

I usually run her with the pet - so last time it was 16 Mad Dog, 3 Sacred Huntmaster and 1 Vivi. And without respec I used ranger for her main class.

 

[Sacred82]

16 level barb needed for crit multiplier on Lethal Stance, and Overhand Chop is not this good next to Vivi/Rogue dip benefits.

granted, Kingmaker is a long ass game, but still you can't exactly rush to level 16. Might just as well pick up some levels in a different class until you get there; and if you don't, you're gimping yourself. The benefits of Lethal Accuracy aren't big enough to put up with suboptimal performance until level 16.

picking up 3 levels of 2-handed gives you: +1 attack and damage bonus (ok), +1 CMB for Sunder and +1 CMD against Disarm (good), heavy armor proficiency (very good for Amiri), 1 free feat, and Overhand Chop (pretty fucking sweet).

3 levels of Vivisectionist gives you: level 1 mutagen (good), 1d6 sneak attack (would call it irrelevant in D&D but it's sweet in Kingmaker), 1 medical discovery (can't say anything about that)

so yeah, 2 handed still seems to come out on top. The mutagen is +4 to Strength which results in just +2 attack and damage compared to x2 Strength bonus from Overhand Chop.

 

[Daidre]

3 levels of Vivi gives you mutagen for +4 STR and 2 AC, bite from Feral discovery and +3d6 sneak with the talent. You can get another bite from barb rage power and wear Wolf cloack for +1d6 cold there (and sneak) and 2 free trip attempts.
Also 1-2 casts of True Strike with Int hat.
Id prefer all this to feat, heavy armor and Overhand Chop that is incompatible with full attacks.

 

[Sacred82]

3 levels of Vivi gives you mutagen for +4 STR and 2 AC, bite from Feral discovery and +3d6 sneak with the talent. You can get another bite from barb rage power and wear Wolf clock for +1d6 cold there (and sneak) and 2 free trip attempts.
Also 1-2 casts of True Strike with Int hat.
Id prefer all this to feat, heavy armor and Overhand Chop that is incompatible with full attacks.

what sneak attack talent? Honestly curious.

Ok, if Overhand Chop is literally incompatible with full attacks, it's not nearly as good as it sounds. In fact, uh... that would make it kind of useless. So I get x2 strength bonus instead of x1.5, and for that I'm losing all other attacks that round?

 

[Daidre]

You get dice of sneak at lvl 1 and 3 and can get third from Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat. It sums for 3d6.

Ok, if Overhand Chop is literally incompatible with full attacks, it's not nearly as good as it sounds. In fact, uh... that would make it kind of useless. So I get x2 strength bonus instead of x1.5, and for that I'm losing all other attacks that round?

You should not lose all other attacks. As far as I understand, it stops working on default attack when you hit 6 BAB and get first iterative. After you can get this bonus only on special attacks like Vital Strike or Charge.

 

[Haplo]

I wonder about Great Cleave.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

3 levels of Vivi gives you mutagen for +4 STR and 2 AC, bite from Feral discovery and +3d6 sneak with the talent. You can get another bite from barb rage power and wear Wolf clock for +1d6 cold there (and sneak) and 2 free trip attempts.
Also 1-2 casts of True Strike with Int hat.
Id prefer all this to feat, heavy armor and Overhand Chop that is incompatible with full attacks.

what sneak attack talent? Honestly curious.

Ok, if Overhand Chop is literally incompatible with full attacks, it's not nearly as good as it sounds. In fact, uh... that would make it kind of useless. So I get x2 strength bonus instead of x1.5, and for that I'm losing all other attacks that round?

Here is the description:

At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls.

Overhand Chop works with Charge and it works with Cleave (and it should work with Great Cleave), which is how I like to use Amiri, but, yeah, it's more limited than it looks. Unless you're using a single attack based ability as your default, it's not doing anything for you.

Vivisectionist is way too overpowered for me to feel comfortable taking even a little one level dip--just not fun, although maybe that's not a problem on the hardest difficulty. Even if Vivi wasn't OP, I don't like multiclassing in anything that seems like it wouldn't fit the character. Amiri and Nok-Nok can both get a lot out of Vivisectionist, but they're too uneducated to be believable alchemists.

With Amiri, I like to give her at least one level in 2-handed fighter early. Thematically it works perfectly, and mechanically you get heavy armor proficiency for free and an extra fighter feat, which is nice for a feat-starved barbarian. If you're going to be charging and cleaving a lot, it absolutely makes sense to take 2-handed fighter up to level 3 for overhand chop (after you get cleave), but if not there are probably better ways to spec her than 2-handed 3/Barb X.

I don't think I'd go over 4--get the next extra fighter feat. Backswing is pretty sweet, but it's not worth passing up on 3-4 barb levels.

Thug makes a lot of sense to me, but it just feels like a crime to have yet another character with ridiculous sneak attack damage given how easy it is to flank enemies.

 

[Shadenuat]

Thug is not for damage, you turn sneak into debuffs & progress the intimidate through power attack line.

 

[luj1]

picking up 3 levels of 2-handed gives you...

3 levels of Vivi gives you...

3 levels of Vivisectionist...

Why three? You noobs ever heard of the rule of fours?

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

luj1 three levels of 2-handed fighter gives you overhand chop, which is very valuable depending on playstyle. Three levels of Vivi gives you 2 sneak attack dice (IIRC you can boost this to 3 with a feat).

Why not go to 4 and get an extra fighter feat or medical discovery? Because it may not be worth sacrificing another level of barbarian, which has a lot going for it if you can get enough levels. You’re delaying when you get more rage powers, more damage reduction, improved uncanny dodge etc... Especially since you’ll likely finish the game around level 17.

 

[Daidre]

Because 17barb/3 Vivi is better than 16Barb/4 Vivi thanks to Tireless Rage.
And rule was invented for idiots who do not understand how BAB progression works in case of multiclassing.

 

[ArchAngel]

luj1 three levels of 2-handed fighter gives you overhand chop, which is very valuable depending on playstyle. Three levels of Vivi gives you 2 sneak attack dice (IIRC you can boost this to 3 with a feat).

Why not go to 4 and get an extra fighter feat or medical discovery? Because it may not be worth sacrificing another level of barbarian, which has a lot going for it if you can get enough levels. You’re delaying when you get more rage powers, more damage reduction, improved uncanny dodge etc... Especially since you’ll likely finish the game around level 17.

With patches now you finish the game at lvl 19/20

 

[Haplo]

Because 17barb/3 Vivi is better than 16Barb/4 Vivi thanks to Tireless Rage.

You could wear the Heart of Ira amulet and not worry about that. That extra medical discovery might be handy... or not, depends on priorities, I guess.

 

[Daidre]

You could wear the Heart of Ira amulet and not worry about that. That extra medical discovery might be handy... or not, depends on priorities, I guess.

Well, I want my neck slot back in business, at least on lvl 20. There are nice things like permanent Mirror Image and 1d6 - 2d6 extra sneak for it.

 

[Haplo]

I see. I guess the defensive necky is really nice. Haven't seen much effect from the Fox one.

 

[Darth Canoli]

But the game is about building a kingdom and the (few) quests that cause a game over come with a ton of stuff telling you HEY BRO IF YOU DON'T DEAL WITH THIS SHIT IT WILL DESTROY YOUR KINGDOM. Meanwhile you have like a year to solve basically all of these, which is a shitload of time unless you just dick around in the kingdom management skipping days like a retard.

"I wanna play the role of a king who lets his kingdom get overrun by beasts and undead but it still exists somehow" isn't good roleplaying. It's just idiocy, and it should result in a game over.

How retarded are you exactly for giving us the king argument ?
Did you even think before writing ?

Hello, i'm a king and i have no heir but i beat the bushes with my army 5 pals exploring the land, looting corpses, rummaging through trashcans any chance i get, i go on fetch quests for the shoemaker and the tailor because i'm their bitch and i can't even cross a river because of pirates.

But i'm still the Baron, King, Boss or whatever, right ?

 

[Sykar]

But the game is about building a kingdom and the (few) quests that cause a game over come with a ton of stuff telling you HEY BRO IF YOU DON'T DEAL WITH THIS SHIT IT WILL DESTROY YOUR KINGDOM. Meanwhile you have like a year to solve basically all of these, which is a shitload of time unless you just dick around in the kingdom management skipping days like a retard.

"I wanna play the role of a king who lets his kingdom get overrun by beasts and undead but it still exists somehow" isn't good roleplaying. It's just idiocy, and it should result in a game over.

How retarded are you exactly for giving us the king argument ?
Did you even think before writing ?

Hello, i'm a king and i have no heir but i beat the bushes with my army 5 pals exploring the land, looting corpses, rummaging through trashcans any chance i get, i go on fetch quests for the shoemaker and the tailor because i'm their bitch and i can't even cross a river because of pirates.

But i'm still the Baron, King, Boss or whatever, right ?

Yes I am sure sitting all game in your throne room doing events would have been much more exciting...

 

[Mexi]

It's a good game, but I'm not feeling quite as gripped as I was with BG or even PoE White March (100% worth playing if you haven't btw). There are traces of a great game. The combat is pretty solid, but there are far too many trash mobs to make playing this at a high difficulty ideal. As someone mentioned on the first page, the release was a clusterfuck.

The game is still not optimized at all still. You need to have a supercomputer to play this shit with the highest settings. It's ridiculous considering the graphics aren't Crysis-like or anything. This game looks like fucking Stronghold 2 graphics.

The companions, for the most part, are boring. Amiri is cool, but I don't like any of the rest. It'd be surprising if Avellone did write this game because it's pretty damn weak. The kingdom builder is fucking annoying because you have to go back and forth all the time or else you miss out opportunities, etc.

It has a lot of flaws, more than PoE, but it's a good game. I'd rank them like this PoE: White March>Pathfinder>PoE: Main. I've not played Deadfire yet.

 

[Pink Eye]

Kingmaker is a great game. Yes! I do RECOMMEND it.

 

[Pink Eye]

Hey don't look at me. Some mod moved the thread to the subforum. So of course I am going to comment in it.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I don't like the turd-vanilla flavor, turd-strawberry is good though ...