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Is KoToR worth playing?

Azalin

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Neeshka said:
Both games have aged very badly. The graphics, animations and facial expressions look incredibly dated.
They were somewhat ok for their time I suppose..


I just finished replaying KOTOR 2 with the restoration mod and I have to say the graphics have aged pretty well,especially the combat animations.


As for Jade Empire I liked it more than I thought I would when I bought it.
Yes is has some bad action combat some silly minigames and almost no stats to begin with but I enjoyed the setting some characters and the story,plus it has John Gleese and a threesome(not with John Gleese btw) which is usually an :incline:
 

Deleted member 7219

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Definitely. It is a great game.

KOTOR 2 is even better, written by MCA.
 

Edwin

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Try deleting the intro movies from the game folder,as I remember that fixed the problem for me(dunno that you already found a solution or not,cba reading the whole thread)


aaaand

Kotor 2>Kotor
 

Edwin

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Neeshka said:
Both games have aged very badly. The graphics, animations and facial expressions look incredibly dated.
They were somewhat ok for their time I suppose.

maybe its just me but I cant see the improvements

ME1 and DA:O-2 looks just as shit and dated
 

St. Toxic

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Don't waste your time on it. Playing Oblivion was the only thing that gave me the strength to beat it, but if it hadn't been for that I would've uninstalled it with only a few hours invested, in the sewers.
 
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Knights of the Old Republic is awful. It may not be saying much but the sequel is better: The plot is interesting, even if it only works when inside the already critically messed up misinterpretation of eastern metaphysics that is Star Wars, and there are some nice characters here and there. Aton's pretty hot, too, which is a bonus. There are better games out there. Much better, just pass them both if you aren't desperate.



On the Jade Empire topic, it's actually pretty good. So far it's the only Bioware game I actually liked enough for me to say I loved it, which is kind of strange given all other Bioware games I only liked enough for me to say they are awful and not even worth the download. Okay, I did like Dragon Age Origins up to when you pick up Morrigan, then saved up for the night, and somehow never again felt the need to start it up and continue, but that one's a weird one. Anyway, Jade Empire is good and it gets an extra star for including Water Margin's references. It was also pretty fun to play in Master right from the start and with a build giving every single character point to spirit, and the combat can get really dynamic that way. And even if the magic is kind of sucky (is there even a point in learning all four elements?) the transformations more than make up for it. I would really like a sequel, maybe even buy it. It loses a star because of Sky, though. What an awful character he was. Also, Bioware writters can't into elemental magic. It's not that hard to get, really, but somehow they managed to understand it entirely wrong and assign the elements to the wrong side.

And the minigame was a pretty fun time waster. Anyone who says otherwise has stumps for fingers.
 

Wyrmlord

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Let me just think of all the bad filler sections in KotOR that were 100% compulsory.

Taris Undercity with the ghouls.

Dantooine Kynrath caves.

Manaan underwater levels, where you must use a sonic blaster to kill enemies.

The path to the Wookie leader's dwelling in Kashyyk.

The Sith Temple on the Rakata planet.

Seeing that there was no KotOR LP on the Playground, I considered installing and playing the game again for a Phantom Edit style LP which would edit and spin KotOR's existing story and content into a whole different version. But just thinking of doing those places again is daunting. I can't even stomach the thought of repeating those filler places again.
 

Zed

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If you're looking to kill time just get SW:TOR. It's basically KOTOR/ME mixed with WoW.
EDIT: not saying WoW would add any qualities, but it has the persistent world addictiveness.
 

Vibalist

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sea said:
The big problem with KotOR II's starting area was that it was just too long. If it was say, 3/4 of the length but hit all the plot points, I'd be totally fine. There's just a bit too much backtracking and whatnot that drag it down. However, the conversation with HK-51 and the miniature mystery plot that forms when you're going through it is really cool, especially the first time.

The tutorial level and Taris in the first game, by comparison, were absolutely horrendous. Taris and its undercity felt like something that should be in a goddamn Forgotten Realms game, and contrivance of the plot points gets really silly - so we have to go through the undercity and deal with a tribe of exiles in order to get a key that will let us go into the sewers, eventually bringing us into a gang's home base, where we can kill all of them and steal their prototype podrace parts, and then go win a podrace against them even though we just killed them all and looted their base, so that we can rescue someone who breaks out without our help anyway? This shit is worse than The Phantom Menace. The complete and utter lack of disconnect between the actual objective and the places the story takes the player is shocking.

Of course, the rest of the game isn't much better. Your goal on all the other planets is to find the Star Map, right? So you've got all this shit like the Wookiee slavery, the Imperial embassy and submarine base on Manaan, etc. but why do we have to do all this shit in advance? The vast majority of plot points at that point in the game should be completely negated by the fact that you are a goddamn Jedi and have a lightsabre. Why the fuck do you have to run errands for the Rebels to get to their sub? Why not just walk past them and steal it, or cut through the door? Why do you have to do all this shit for the Wookiees to make a guard stand aside so you can use an elevator? The Krayt Dragon thing on Tattooine actually makes sense, because it's a goddamn Krayt Dragon, but then apparently "nuke it from orbit with the Ebon Hawk" never occurred to anyone. At least the Korriban Sith Academy makes sense to infiltrate, though you can kind of just hack your way through all the Sith just fine anyway, and the stupid quests you have to do to just reach the right tomb are pretty contrived. The only time the plot actually gets kind of interesting and makes some sense is when you go to the Star Forge and its planet, but by then it's too late.

I think that more than anything is the big problem in KotOR - it's written not like you're a godamn mythic Jedi knight, but like you're just some ordinary dude. Just about everything in the game should be negated or overridden by that fact, but instead the vast majority of your time is spent doing errands for NPCs and trying to get into Bastila's pants. The sequel was smart enough to acknowledge that Jedi are really damn powerful, so the plot is driven by goals (reach Goto's ship! find the lost Jedi Masters! reclaim the Ebon Hawk!) and not by "how many fetch quests do I have to do before someone lets me through a door?"

I'm not gonna add anything to this discussion, but I just want to say that your posts are an absolute pleasure to read. They're always very intelligent and well thought out, and it's nice to see that you like to put a bit of effort into it every time you reply to a thread. So, uh, :salute:
 

Roguey

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Wyrmlord said:
But just thinking of doing those places again is daunting. I can't even stomach the thought of repeating those filler places again.
I have no idea how you're able to tell those apart from any other combat section. They're all filler.
 

garren

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Sorry for necro :D

I always wanted to try out Kotor 2 so I bought it with the first one and I'm playing through the first one right now. I'm at Dantooine at the moment, but already the filler quests and fights are getting pretty boring. The Star Forge sounds interesting, but overall the quests just don't feel engaging, like I'm just grinding through this shit to get to the good parts. Also the forced NPC's in your party are something I've always disliked. I hope kotor 2 doesn't have this.

Still, despite this the game is playable enough that I'll probably play through it and the continue on to Kotor 2 to see how Obsidian handled the Star Wars universe. But like someone said previously in the thread, the game does feels like the beginning of the decline of Bioware. (or was that Neverwinter nights, never played that either)
 

Glyphwright

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KotOR 1 is a primitive story about a cackling villain who wants to kill everyone for teh lulz, it has exactly two roleplaying options for the OP - sparkling angel of goodness, and a murderous psychopath who takes candy from a child and beats them with it. There are better options to spend your time on.

KotOR 2, however, is one of the best RPGs there is. Start with it, you don't need KotOR 1 to understand the plot and you won't miss anything.
 

commie

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
KotOR 1 is a primitive story about a cackling villain who wants to kill everyone for teh lulz, it has exactly two roleplaying options for the OP - sparkling angel of goodness, and a murderous psychopath who takes candy from a child and beats them with it. There are better options to spend your time on.

KotOR 2, however, is one of the best RPGs there is. Start with it, you don't need KotOR 1 to understand the plot and you won't miss anything.

Yup, though really, the primitive 'bad guy' RP options are pretty funny if lowbrow. Having the annoying brat butchered by her wookie friend was one of the best Bioware moments. It's fun for the dark side path alone.
 

Roguey

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Also the forced NPC's in your party are something I've always disliked. I hope kotor 2 doesn't have this.
kotor 2 is even worse about this. You have long extended sections where you don't even play as the Exile.
 

laclongquan

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The proper way of playing KOTOR1 is playing your character in undie. Ie no armor whatsoever.

One it looks good to the eyes. And believe me, the boringness is that bad. Pity we cant get a nudie mod for it!

Two, it make combat actually dangerous for a change. A few times I had to wear armor just to be safe.

I also went further and used dual pistols only, but that's just me.
 

Glyphwright

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The proper way of playing KOTOR1 is playing your character in undie. Ie no armor whatsoever.

One it looks good to the eyes. And believe me, the boringness is that bad. Pity we cant get a nudie mod for it!

Two, it make combat actually dangerous for a change. A few times I had to wear armor just to be safe.

I also went further and used dual pistols only, but that's just me.
I summon the divining powers of Lord Google, hear our plea!

http://nudemods.org/mods/039/

:bounce:
 

Carrion

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kotor 2 is even worse about this. You have long extended sections where you don't even play as the Exile.
Kill yourself.
I actually agree with Roguey for once. Those sections suck ass and often work against the game. You get to control characters that aren't even in your party and might as well be your enemies. You also get your ship full of companions that you don't need and don't really even have enough time to use before the game is over. I'm not sure what Obsidian were thinking.
 

Glyphwright

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Those sections suck ass and often work against the game
That's your opinion. I liked these sections because, first of all, they gave screen-time to party members other than the Exile, provided variety in gameplay, and made the game more challenging, because obviously the Exile is going to be the strongest character with all the best items and buffs. They also gave a feeling that, while the Exile is the fulcrum around which revolves the plot and storyline of this game, his allies aren't mindless drones that stand in the corner when they aren't needed, and are capable of making decisions and actions of their own. This is one of the things that made Nar Shaddaa my favorite planet.

You get to control characters that aren't even in your party and might as well be your enemies
Huh? No you don't. We get to control Mira before she officially joins the party, but at that point it's pretty clear her interests coincide with that of the Exile - she went to confront Goto's right hand crime boss to keep him from snatching the Exile for himself, despite being a bounty hunter who's supposed to be hunting for the Exile. There's the short section with the protocol droid on Telos - but he was programmed to do something specific, plus the section was hilarious. And... that's about it. What exactly are you referring to?

You also get your ship full of companions that you don't need and don't really even have enough time to use before the game is over
Replay factor.

I'm not sure what Obsidian were thinking.
Making a good and intelligent sequel to a dumbass Biowhore game out of a crappy engine and a ridiculous setting in 12 months time?
 

Carrion

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That's your opinion. I liked these sections because, first of all, they gave screen-time to party members other than the Exile, provided variety in gameplay, and made the game more challenging, because obviously the Exile is going to be the strongest character with all the best items and buffs. They also gave a feeling that, while the Exile is the fulcrum around which revolves the plot and storyline of this game, his allies aren't mindless drones that stand in the corner when they aren't needed, and are capable of making decisions and actions of their own. This is one of the things that made Nar Shaddaa my favorite planet.
In story-based games with a single protagonist I prefer it when the perspective is kept to a single character instead of letting the player know stuff the main character would have no way of knowing. Nar Shaddaa and KotOR2's story in general would've worked much better that way. Also, if you wanted to present the Exile's allies as something other than mindless drones, giving the player full control of their actions is as counterproductive as it gets. It would've worked better if they had just made those characters act on their own independent of the player.

Huh? No you don't. We get to control Mira before she officially joins the party, but at that point it's pretty clear her interests coincide with that of the Exile - she went to confront Goto's right hand crime boss to keep him from snatching the Exile for himself, despite being a bounty hunter who's supposed to be hunting for the Exile. There's the short section with the protocol droid on Telos - but he was programmed to do something specific, plus the section was hilarious. And... that's about it. What exactly are you referring to?
The Mira section is what I mostly had in mind. The moment you see her you know that she'll join the party sooner rather than later, but getting to control her pretty much kills all remaining sense of mystery about her. She could be an interesting third party with the potential to mix things up, but then you get to directly control her and you immediately know that's not going to happen.

Replay factor.
They should've made the companions optional then.

Making a good and intelligent sequel to a dumbass Biowhore game out of a crappy engine and a ridiculous setting in 12 months time?
They succeeded in that, but they managed to sabotage their own work quite a bit as well.
 

Glyphwright

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In story-based games with a single protagonist I prefer it when the perspective is kept to a single character instead of letting the player know stuff the main character would have no way of knowing. Nar Shaddaa and KotOR2's story in general would've worked much better that way. Also, if you wanted to present the Exile's allies as something other than mindless drones, giving the player full control of their actions is as counterproductive as it gets. It would've worked better if they had just made those characters act on their own independent of the player.
Well, there are two ways of showing the party members' independent actions. Either you give the player full control over them, or you make cutscenes. Considering that TSL is filled with cutscenes to the brim, adding a substantial amount of them would have made it non-interactive for large portions of time.

The Mira section is what I mostly had in mind. The moment you see her you know that she'll join the party sooner rather than later, but getting to control her pretty much kills all remaining sense of mystery about her. She could be an interesting third party with the potential to mix things up, but then you get to directly control her and you immediately know that's not going to happen.
We got control of Mira for no other reason than to establish her conflict with Hanharr, obviously her walk through the Jekk Jekk Tarr could have been skipped, but they couldn't introduce her as a playable character during the fight with Hanharr, it would have been bizarre. Plus she isn't a very mysterious character to begin with.

They should've made the companions optional then.
Well, I guess they followed the example of KotOR 1, which also only had 1 optional character, if I recall.
 

Carrion

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Well, there are two ways of showing the party members' independent actions. Either you give the player full control over them, or you make cutscenes. Considering that TSL is filled with cutscenes to the brim, adding a substantial amount of them would have made it non-interactive for large portions of time.
Why would you need cutscenes? There are tons of ways to convey information in a game. For example, the Exile could enter a room full of dead guards, access a security camera and see a recording of Mira sneaking around the place, and/or get some visual hints of her having been there earlier. You've also got Kreia who has access to all kinds of information, and in many cases your companions could just fill you in later when you talk to them. Besides, the consequences of your companions' actions are often clearly visible anyway even if we don't directly see them in the act. A cutscene is in general a really heavy-handed way of telling the player that something is happening or has already happened.

I don't think that all of those companion sections are bad, really. The ones including droids were generally pretty good and felt at least somewhat appropriate, probably because droids come off more as mere tools than actual characters with their own (possibly shady) goals and motivations.

We got control of Mira for no other reason than to establish her conflict with Hanharr, obviously her walk through the Jekk Jekk Tarr could have been skipped, but they couldn't introduce her as a playable character during the fight with Hanharr, it would have been bizarre.
The conflict with Hanharr could've been established in a number of different ways without making Mira a playable character at that point of the game. It's just a matter of writing, really.

Plus she isn't a very mysterious character to begin with.
Because we've already seen her in cutscenes and gained a lot of information the Exile would have had no way of accessing otherwise. I don't remember the exact details of Nar Shaddaa, but as far as I remember she kind of screws the Exile over five minutes after meeting him/her, so she could have potentially been a much more interesting and inscrutable character if the game didn't give us all of that extra info for free right away.
 

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