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Is RPG Codex the only place on the Internet where Larian and Beamdog are hated?

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Codex Year of the Donut
I don't understand why Beamdog is getting hatred.
image.png
 

NJClaw

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I don't understand why Beamdog is getting hatred. They polished old classics and re-published them to work on newer systems. Ideally they shouldn't be receiving either love or hate. They should be tasteless, neutral. You already owned the game and you could mod it to get the same effects? Then fine, do that and ignore Beamdog's offerings, why the fuck you have to make a big fuss about it you fucking sperg?
When they came out with their pointless enhanced editions, they actually took the original versions off the market. Now I think you get the original game with the enhanced edition, but it was a shitty move nonetheless.

If you can't see why taking a beloved classic off the market and forcing someone who wants to play it to buy a worse version can upset people, I don't know what to tell you.

As for Larian, i don't think anyone hates them. They are not important enough to hate. I mean, they make garbage nostalgia-bait for 40 year old faggots with no time to play games but still wanting the warm fuzzy feeling of getting a nice "old school" game with cool cartoony screenshots, so they can fire it up once in a while, mess around the starting area a bit, then close it when they get reminded they have work to do. Yes they will butcher Baldur's Gate 3, but what do you expect when you shill for both DOS games and give them GOTY even when you haven't even played the fucking trash? Game gets successful and suddenly those belgian faggots are considered quality crpg game designers and get assigned a historic franchise to corrupt. Has happened again and again. That is why shilling is wrong, and should be exposed every single time. Shilling leads to bad products and shilling lead to the video game industry of 2020. Enjoy.
What's nostalgia baiting about Larian games? D:OS 1 and 2 have nothing in common with the old IE games and more than half the people who love the D:OS series have never even played Baldur's Gate. The media started pushing the "Baldur's Gate spiritual successor" narrative and Larian itself was surprised about that, but still went along with it because why wouldn't they?
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
When they came out with their pointless enhanced editions,
EEs provide enhancements that aren't initially obvious and can't be fixed with mods such as superior pathfinding -- the pathfinding in the originals is atrocious. They're also much easier to create mods for.
The EEs should have been strictly improvements such as this by default, with an opt-in for their original content. Forcing their content onto you is the major issue. To be fair, this is largely what the PST and NWN EEs are, but they already burned a lot of goodwill by the time they got there. Also, NWN EE released with near zero changes at launch.
 

TemplarGR

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1) Beamdog didn't "remove the classics". Your physical copies are right there. You can use them right now. They just stopped selling the old games to new users, and that is understandable, no reason to keep selling legacy code to modern day users. Everyone who had already bought the game previously had the classic version, and he can still get cd copies online if he wishes....

2) NJClaw, don't take it personal, but you are probably a sperg. Have you been tested on the spectrum? Nostalgia is not about having 2 exact games. DOS is feeding the nostalgia of isometric RPG experiences. Like the rest of the kickstarter era indie trash. It is the "let's control our avatars with a mouse like an RTS" feel. It doesn't have to be DnD or realtime with pause to be nostalgia-bait. Only spergs focus so much on the minutie of gaming. Nostalgia does not come from the ruleset, nostalgia is about the feelings you had as a brainless child while playing 90s games, and you want to re-experience that feeling.
 

NJClaw

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1) Beamdog didn't "remove the classics". Your physical copies are right there. You can use them right now. They just stopped selling the old games to new users, and that is understandable, no reason to keep selling legacy code to modern day users. Everyone who had already bought the game previously had the classic version, and he can still get cd copies online if he wishes....
If you can't see why people would be upset about no longer being able to obtain the original version of the game, there's not much I can say to convince you. The enhanced edition had a worse UI, bad content that didn't fit in with the original game and wasn't compatible with preexisting mods. I still play the enhanced edition because the UI is still serviceable and I really don't care about mods (especially compared to the quality-of-life improvements that the EE introduces), but I can also empathize with people who prefer the original game. You know, like a non-autistic person would do.

2) NJClaw, don't take it personal, but you are probably a sperg. Have you been tested on the spectrum? Nostalgia is not about having 2 exact games. DOS is feeding the nostalgia of isometric RPG experiences. Like the rest of the kickstarter era indie trash. It is the "let's control our avatars with a mouse like an RTS" feel. It doesn't have to be DnD or realtime with pause to be nostalgia-bait. Only spergs focus so much on the minutie of gaming. Nostalgia does not come from the ruleset, nostalgia is about the feelings you had as a brainless child while playing 90s games, and you want to re-experience that feeling.
I will try to get tested if you promise me you will try to improve your reading capabilities. Many vocal Baldur's Gate (and other isometric RPGs) fans despise Larian and the D:OS series. Many D:OS fans spend their time here on the Codex saying that the BG series is trash. A lot of D:OS fans have never even played Baldur's Gate (or other old isometric games): you can find innumerable "I loved D:OS, should I try BG?" threads everywhere on the internet. One of the first questions at the BG3 gameplay reveal literally ended with "wow, I loved D:OS, now I'm going to try the BG series". How can a game rely on BG nostalgia if people who play it have never touched a BG game?

Anyway, I'm doing an online test right now. Usually I'm a functional member of society, but I'm quite sure I'm pretty far on the spectrum. I know these tests aren't worth much, but I'll let you know the results as soon as possible.
 

Mortmal

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Beamdog is hated nearly everywhere well except in their own weird forum.
Larian is extremely popular the only ones who hate them now are the BG fanboys.

Say whatever you want about critical roll but it one of the reasons games like Solasta or even BG3 exist today. They helped to make DND more popular than it ever was.

Oh yes, a luck they become popular, if anything we can thank them . However it's impossible to replicate the same experience , people may end up disappointed they wont get anything close like that even after buying the book. If only they had started earlier with previous editions , it succes has nothing to do with 5E really, its lot of story telling and acting, maybe like one fight with minis on a map every 4 hours.Any rpg system could work .
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Many vocal Baldur's Gate (and other isometric RPGs) fans despise Larian and the D:OS series. Many D:OS fans spend their time here on the Codex saying that the BG series is trash.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that the group of 5-10 addicts who live in the BG3 thread reflect any sort of consensus
 

NJClaw

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Many vocal Baldur's Gate (and other isometric RPGs) fans despise Larian and the D:OS series. Many D:OS fans spend their time here on the Codex saying that the BG series is trash.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that the group of 5-10 addicts who live in the BG3 thread reflect any sort of consensus
Don't fucking trash-talk my girlfriend Ontopoly

Whenever a D:OS thread pops up in the Facebook videogames groups I frequent, usually the answers are along the lines of:
- "D:OS is a the best game in the world, why would you play BG when you can play D:OS 2 for the ninth time?" or
- "D:OS sucks it's not a real rpg" or
- "don't try to compare the shitty D:OS to the masterpiece that's BG" or
- "what even is a BG?".

Of course there's the occasional "yeah, D:OS is a fun game, I loved the chance to reignite my passion for isometric RPGs", but that's a rare exception. We love BG, but I don't think it stands a chance against D:OS popularity. It feels like right now D:OS is far more popular than BG has ever been. "Baldur's Gate" yields around 5M results on Google, while "Divinity: Original Sin" around 20M.
 
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Thac0

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Many vocal Baldur's Gate (and other isometric RPGs) fans despise Larian and the D:OS series. Many D:OS fans spend their time here on the Codex saying that the BG series is trash.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that the group of 5-10 addicts who live in the BG3 thread reflect any sort of consensus
Don't fucking trash-talk my girlfriend Ontopoly

Whenever a D:OS thread pops up in the Facebook videogames groups I frequent, usually the answers are along the lines of:
- "D:OS is a the best game in the world, why would you play BG when you can play D:OS 2 for the ninth time?" or
- "D:OS sucks it's not a real rpg" or
- "don't try to compare the shitty D:OS to the masterpiece that's BG" or
- "what even is a BG?".

Of course there's the occasional "yeah, D:OS is a fun game, I loved the chance to reignite my passion for isometric RPGs", but that's a rare exception. We love BG, but I don't think it stands a chance against D:OS popularity. It feels like right now D:OS is far more popular than BG has ever been. "Baldur's Gate" yields around 5M results on Google, while "Divinity: Original Sin" around 20M.

Remember, back in BG 2s glory days the internet and the rpg market were much smaller. From what I have gathered BG2 opened top 2 selling game and was in the top 10 for months, I didnt find corresponding data for DOS:2 but I assume its similar. I speculate that they have about the same amount of impact at launch, maybe BG2 had a tiny bit more, but BG2 is a 20 years old game by now. Its impact has obviously waned to the point where D:OS is the much bigger IP.

Also why the hell are so many people trying to make this an two sides war? Are we children bickering if Playstation or Xbox is better? (insert Sega vs Nintendo here if old )
I am just happy a new big budget DnD game is getting made at all. Also Larian isnt the worst choice, apart from their cringe writing I consider them decent. As S0rcererV1ct0r said, Bioware or Obsidian would have been worse.

From my IRL experience most Larian fans have never played Baldurs Gate and dont plan to, but are neutral towards it and are willing to give the setting in BG3 a chance.
 

TemplarGR

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Remember, back in BG 2s glory days the internet and the rpg market were much smaller. From what I have gathered BG2 opened top 2 selling game and was in the top 10 for months, I didnt find corresponding data for DOS:2 but I assume its similar. I speculate that they have about the same amount of impact at launch, maybe BG2 had a tiny bit more, but BG2 is a 20 years old game by now. Its impact has obviously waned to the point where D:OS is the much bigger IP.

Also why the hell are so many people trying to make this an two sides war? Are we children bickering if Playstation or Xbox is better? (insert Sega vs Nintendo here if old )
I am just happy a new big budget DnD game is getting made at all. Also Larian isnt the worst choice, apart from their cringe writing I consider them decent. As S0rcererV1ct0r said, Bioware or Obsidian would have been worse.

From my IRL experience most Larian fans have never played Baldurs Gate and dont plan to, but are neutral towards it and are willing to give the setting in BG3 a chance.

BG3 is not big budget. Red Dead Redemption 2 is big budget. BG3 is a small fish in the pond, comparatively to the rest of the industry. And Larian is a trash developer who never understood RPGs and never produced anything quality, ever. Even Divine Divinity (which i own an gifted original disk for) was nothing special, it was just a mediocre Diablo II clone with elements of BG. Essentially a lesser Sacred.

The big problem with Larian is that BG3 requires a level of expertise and attitude that they do not possess. They never made a game like it in the past, and they clearly don't know how. Their attitude towards story, atmosphere, characters, writting, world building is the polar opposite of Faerun. Yes i suppose having licenced the setting it will help a bit, but if the people don't "feel" the setting, they will mess it up. Also they don't understand what made BG combat tick. They will probably abuse the "elemental damage" effects, like the did in the DOS games. Essentially rendering the DnD battle system useless. Also i am willing to bet the game will be padded to hell and back with busywork, slow walking speeds, pixel hunting, loot hunting in ever single vase and crate, and turn based combat...

I have no hopes for it, no.
 

oldmanpaco

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I own D:OS 2 but the very thought of playing it and dealing with Larians idiotic writing again fills me with despair. I've actually installed it about 3 times and it just sits there on my SSD until I uninstall it to make room for something else. This and Battletech were the last games i bothered to pledge on KS and I haven't played either.

Also BG3 looks like its going to be shit.
 

NJClaw

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Many vocal Baldur's Gate (and other isometric RPGs) fans despise Larian and the D:OS series. Many D:OS fans spend their time here on the Codex saying that the BG series is trash.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that the group of 5-10 addicts who live in the BG3 thread reflect any sort of consensus
Don't fucking trash-talk my girlfriend Ontopoly

Whenever a D:OS thread pops up in the Facebook videogames groups I frequent, usually the answers are along the lines of:
- "D:OS is a the best game in the world, why would you play BG when you can play D:OS 2 for the ninth time?" or
- "D:OS sucks it's not a real rpg" or
- "don't try to compare the shitty D:OS to the masterpiece that's BG" or
- "what even is a BG?".

Of course there's the occasional "yeah, D:OS is a fun game, I loved the chance to reignite my passion for isometric RPGs", but that's a rare exception. We love BG, but I don't think it stands a chance against D:OS popularity. It feels like right now D:OS is far more popular than BG has ever been. "Baldur's Gate" yields around 5M results on Google, while "Divinity: Original Sin" around 20M.

Remember, back in BG 2s glory days the internet and the rpg market were much smaller. From what I have gathered BG2 opened top 2 selling game and was in the top 10 for months, I didnt find corresponding data for DOS:2 but I assume its similar. I speculate that they have about the same amount of impact at launch, maybe BG2 had a tiny bit more, but BG2 is a 20 years old game by now. Its impact has obviously waned to the point where D:OS is the much bigger IP.

Also why the hell are so many people trying to make this an two sides war? Are we children bickering if Playstation or Xbox is better? (insert Sega vs Nintendo here if old )
I am just happy a new big budget DnD game is getting made at all. Also Larian isnt the worst choice, apart from their cringe writing I consider them decent. As S0rcererV1ct0r said, Bioware or Obsidian would have been worse.

From my IRL experience most Larian fans have never played Baldurs Gate and dont plan to, but are neutral towards it and are willing to give the setting in BG3 a chance.
I really wasn't interested in making this a two sides war. I was just going against the idea that Larian main intention, while making D:OS, was to use the nostalgia for BG to drive sales. As you said, most Larian fans have never played Baldur's Gate and don't plan to.
 

Cryomancer

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I really wasn't interested in making this a two sides war. I was just going against the idea that Larian main intention, while making D:OS, was to use the nostalgia for BG to drive sales. As you said, most Larian fans have never played Baldur's Gate and don't plan to.

What triggers me is when DOS2 fans says that "dos2 is the modern baldur's gate" when dos2 has everything that i hate on modern games and BG2 has everything that i love from old school games.
 

Trashos

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I don't understand why Beamdog is getting hatred.

Here, enjoy Beamdog's interview where they explain how BG's characters are sexist, but they will "improve" them now that they got their hands on them:
http://archive.is/Lwu6p

Surely you understand how the BG fanbase did not think highly of these little pieces of shit. As I said, Dunning-Kruger effect.
 

NJClaw

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I don't understand why Beamdog is getting hatred.

Here, enjoy Beamdog's interview where they explain how BG's characters are sexist, but they will "improve" them now that they got their hands on them:
http://archive.is/Lwu6p

Surely you understand how the BG fanbase did not think highly of these little pieces of shit. As I said, Dunning-Kruger effect.
From that interview:
“The Baldur’s Gate III thing, when are we going to do that? I think the answer is when the right people and the right partners line up, something big will happen.”
Instead, the answer was NEVER
 

Butter

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“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say like, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”

If you wanted to play Baldur's Gate as it was released in 1998, then too bad.
 

Cryomancer

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Imagine beamdog doing a "enhanced edition" of Dark Sun : Shattered Lands... They would destroy the writing.
 

anvi

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I don't see why anyone would hate Larian. Divine Divinity was pretty cool, sequels not so much. DoS1 is ok, sequel is a let down imo, but neither of those things are worthy of 'hate'. Disappointing sure. I actually like them for trying to bring tactical combat to the masses in this retarded modern age of Kardashians and Callodoody. If they were just in it for the money like most shitty devs, they could make dumb open world action games that would be more profitable. The fact that they are taking on BG3 and making it turn based and have succeeded enough to not only get the franchise but make it in a decent looking modern engine, is really respectable.

Beamdog I don't give two shits about. They are just a glorified modder team that do shoddy work, who cares. Any dummies don't even know who they are and any have the modded originals so, whatever.
 

Morpheus Kitami

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Dunno about Larian, I haven't read about any convos outside of the 'dex, but Beamdog. Well, there's the usual shit flung at them for their crap new content, but otherwise they don't seem to register much as an entity. Despite slapping their name on everything, people mostly rate the new versions positively because they liked the old versions. They haven't played those games in twenty years, any issues that are there because of the new release is something they assume was always there. Remember, Blood: Fresh Supply got a lot of positive ratings from people who literally didn't bother playing the previous releases.
Plus, any review page for a game is going to trend positive unless it has some kind of issue that prevents people from having fun the first two hours. Be it difficulty, it sucking, or technical issues.
 

urmom

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Remember, back in BG 2s glory days the internet and the rpg market were much smaller. From what I have gathered BG2 opened top 2 selling game and was in the top 10 for months, I didnt find corresponding data for DOS:2 but I assume its similar. I speculate that they have about the same amount of impact at launch, maybe BG2 had a tiny bit more, but BG2 is a 20 years old game by now. Its impact has obviously waned to the point where D:OS is the much bigger IP.
Going forward I think the nu-XCOM series should share this status (even if it is not a super mega awesome game or an RPG I dunno). In 2020 I see the influence both games have had on the market.

I'm not a fan of Larian though. I've played DD and DOS and the storytelling is not enjoyable. Dragon Commander never appealed to me either.
 
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NJClaw

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“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say like, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”

If you wanted to play Baldur's Gate as it was released in 1998, then too bad.
So, you have Jaheira and Khalid in front of you. Jaheira is a brave strong warrior and Khalid a babbling buffoon that runs in fear every two minutes and gets continuously called weak and stupid. What's the problem you highlight? That Jaheira is the nagging wife. Nice.
 

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