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Is the Fast travel mechanic decline?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by TheHeroOfTime, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. agentorange Arcane Patron

    agentorange
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    And Dark Souls 3 has the bonfires, which are "intelligently implemented" within the Souls world as a means for linking the different universe and timelines (basically the entire crux of the story which you seem to have missed out on???), a perfectly reasonable explanation for in-universe fast travel, checkmate sweetie ;^) try harder :)
     
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  2. fantadomat Arcane Edgy Wumao

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    Yeah,sitting at a campfire and waking up in a different location is logical and immersive.
     
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  3. Gregz Arcane

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    Hiking simulation is more decline than fast travel.

    Anything boring should be abstracted away.
     
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  4. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
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    Fast travel is decline, but there are exceptions for certain kinds of games. For example, Arena and Daggerfall by design rely on a system of fast travel that is instantaneous for the player, since traveling directly through the vast, procedurally-generated open world of these games would incur a prohibitive amount of time (though in the process, it also became pointless to have included such a vast open world in the first place). Morrowind's game world was scaled down relative to what it represents, and consequently could rely on the player-character embarking upon overland expeditions to reach his goal. The fast-travel systems included in Morrowind were ones that linked certain locations in ways that made sense within the context of the game world (e.g. ports are linked by boats) and included only a limited amount of outright teleportation, involving the use of magic. Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen actually does have fast-travel teleportation, but it's limited to returning to the main city, the starting village, the entrance to the expansion dungeon, or to a portcrystal (of which there are only 5) placed by the PC in a spot that the PC has reached. Thus, it still requires the player to travel to a destination, but has a method of avoiding back-tracking across territory already explored.

    Oblivion-style fast travel, where the player can teleport to any destination already reached, is anathema to RPG exploration. The player simply fast travels to whichever already-reached location is closest to his current destination, then runs (or rides his horse) in the direction of the quest compass.
     
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  5. Gentle Player Arcane

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    Mindless teleportation in fully open world games like Oblivion, without cost or consequence, is utter decline in my view. Ultima VII, as has been mentioned, handled it well for the open world games. Variety of options - marking spells on a limited number of stones, the Moongates, and the flying carpet for a faster and more free form of manual travel. All of these things either take some thought and management, or have to be earned.

    In pseudo-open world games, where the player has more obstacles in terms of progression but can travel to-and-fro freely within those constraints, such as in Ultima Underworld or Dark Souls, there is one fast travel system that I've encountered which dwarfs most others - the system of fast travel in King's Field IV.

    It's a simple system which makes use of a variety of things in the game world - teleporting circles which are part of the environment; keystone pillars which are also found in the game world; key stones which the player must find and strategically place in the aforementioned pillars, as their numbers are limited; and teleporting wands (which can be used only in the teleportation circles), and which are again limited and which have a colour that corresponds to that of a particular key stone. It might sound unnecessarily cumbersome and convoluted in writing, but in practice it is the most satisfying fast-travel system I've encountered, one which rewards thought and diligence on the part of the player, as well as exploration (some wands and stones are found on the critical path, but others are given to the player as rewards for finding secret areas), by allowing him extra convenience.

    Any game developer who cares for his craft and wants to implement an intelligent fast-travel system ought to at least examine KF4 and learn from it. Of course, this will never happen.
     
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  6. deama Liturgist

    deama
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    dragon's dogma has magic feathers that allow u to teleport
     
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  7. Hobo Elf Arcane

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    It is logical and immersive if LSD is involved.
     
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  8. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
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    If the game is a hiking simulator with stupidly slow speed (FNV for example) then no, it's not decline, it's what makes it playable.
    Only autistic bethesdards who roleplay people hiding from the rain would think fast travel is bad because if they used it they couldn't brag about how they played their shit game for like 3000 hours.
     
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  9. fantadomat Arcane Edgy Wumao

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    Yeah,i was trying for satirical mate. Don't hold any love for that console shit. If it is not on a pc,i am not interested.
     
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  10. TheHeroOfTime Arcane

    TheHeroOfTime
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    No matter how much "intelligently implemented" the bonfires in DS series are. How the player character travels between them has no lore explanation and is just for gameplay purposes. In the first Dark souls you obtain the Lords vessel, a giant yellow pot that the players saves in his pocket and then he's done, he can warp to everywhere. In DS2 and 3 there's no item required at all. Same in Bloodborne. Don't get me wrong, because the bonfires are key elements of the world of the game in A LOT of regards. Other things like how they repel enemies can even be explained through lore. But the fast travel itself it's just doesn't have explanation.

    That said, I consider that metroidvanias and dungeon crawlers like this requires fast travel to avoid the repetition. Because they tend to have dense areas filled with enemies placed meticulously through the maps. There's no place for excessive leisure like in open worlds games. Only finding items and secret paths to new areas incentivates exploration, and those elements are not buried by the fast traveling. Also, they're games that when they want you to revisit any area or to explore in detail they force you to do it through the pacing of the levels. The Undead burg and the Cathedral of the deep are examples on the DS series (Levels built around an unique, core bonfire. The other bonfires of those levels are the covenant ones). In hiking simulators like Skyrim (And I'm taking the concept seriously here), hiking is the key of the game. If the other mechanics doesn't work in benefit of it (That means making the hiking more satisfying and fun) then well, something is not working there.
     
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  11. TheHeroOfTime Arcane

    TheHeroOfTime
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    Lol in GTA IV I used to fast travel in taxi, and at the end of the trail I used to kill the taxist to try to recover the money :obviously:
     
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  12. Nekot-The-Brave Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I believe the issue is that if the game was built well from the start, you wouldn't need fast travel. The issue right now is that there is so much shit in the world and that it is way too large that fast travel becomes a mandatory feature because there aren't any alternatives to remediate traveling those long distances. This is a consequence of open world games. A smaller scope 'closed world' game wouldn't need a fast travel mechanic as backtracking wouldn't be necessary. But to be quite honest, 'fast travel' has been in games for a very very very long time. Anything regarding teleporting (tp spell, diablo) would be considered fast travel. So this 'technology' has been around for more than 20+ years.
     
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  13. Blaine Cis-Het Oppressor Patron

    Blaine
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    The thing is, some of them are literally 10-20 seconds apart at a sprint, and most are in the ~30-second range. They are absolutely everywhere. It ruins the sense of danger that was present in DS1 for example, and affects the world design negatively, since in DS1 the world was built assuming that players would actually traverse through much of it rather than fast traveling everywhere.

    Also, in DS1, you couldn't teleport between bonfires right from the start of the game. It was only about halfway through that you gained that ability.
     
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  14. I hate fast travel in Fallout New Vegas. I hate it because it's not proper Fallout map travel. I know why it is what it is in FNV (because it's fucking Oblivion with guns and a plot) but I don't think that's a very good excuse. Beyond that, I find that fast travel in some games is a mercy and the real problem is that the world stops being interesting enough to trudge through more than once or twice tops.
     
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  15. Stavrophore Kalin was right all along. Patron

    Stavrophore
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    Traveling on foot as opposed to fast travel has to tie down travel length to some survival mechanics. Otherwise, what would be the point of traveling tenth times the same, and 100% explored road? Even carts that drive you from city to city doesn't change the inherent problem -backtracking. A game without fast travel need to have a good quest mechanics which removes most of pointless backtracking and fetch quests.
    I liked in Skyrim Requiem with Frostfall addon that whenever i've decided to travel somewhere, and it was snowy and cold there i had to consider survival aspect. But only because of that the travel wasn't a mindless journey, but a task unto itself. I had to focus to not get frosted, ill or otherwise dead from dehydration and lack of food. It's a time consuming playstyle, and not for everyone -thus i understand why people would want to have fast travel option.
     
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  16. Grauken Arcane Patron

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    I remember from reading the Wheel of Time long ago, or some other fantasy, not sure anymore, that they had fast paths, but super-deadly monsters on them that killed almost everybody who used them. Was there any RPG that ever implemented something like that, seemed like a cool idea
     
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  17. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    I can't believe how many of you cucks praise Morrowind's shit slow travel. Oh yeah, instead of making you cross half the world by foot it makes you cross quarter the world by foot to nearest bus stop, then another quarter from the other bus stop to your destination. Thank god at least they didn't make you wait for a bus!

    You must be fans of public transportation IRL, lol. Fuck that, gimme taxi or uber :obviously:
     
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  18. Mark Richard Arcane

    Mark Richard
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    Open world games without fast travel need more than a few scripted events on the road, they need a thriving ecosystem in which different AI groups play off each other and react to variables beyond the presence of the player, offering spontaneous and dynamic behaviour. Navigation should be tense and compelling with environmental hazards and limited resources. Players should be considering their position in the world and planning around that, finishing their business in the local area and gathering supplies in preparation for a dangerous journey. The Stalker games are great in that regard.
     
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  19. Anomander Rake Self-Ejected

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    I don't think morrowind system is shit per se, I think that it was done in a certain way to make it more frustrating and hardcore then needed.

    For example, I use melian teleport's mod, because I find it weird that I can't use my magic skills, especially when you are truly proficient at them, to teleport myself all around the world.

    Also, I have to admit that fast travel is needed in some games. For example, I played The witcher 3 and I installed a mod for fast travel and I immediately realized going all around in such a world just to waste time pisses me off. Cut the world by 1\3, make it meaningful by making it possible for me to get xp when killing stuff instead of forcing me to degrade my weapons and armor for 5 xp and stop with this fucking shit of forced levelling.
     
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  20. DJOGamer PT Arcane

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    Depends mainly on how big the map is but also how much the level, enconters and quest design make the player backtrack.

    Like already stated here the best approach is something like Morrowind. Traveling services only to settlements of importance (I don't think every shitty little village should have travel services) that are connected to main roades (meaning you can't instantly acess inhabbited areas). Certain factions should have some sort of shortcuts to certain destinations (from tunnels to teleportation stations), but of course using them implies being apart of that faction (and it can also be restricted by rank). Having spells or itens to transport you to certain locations is also a good idea.

    Also give the players other methods to traverse the world. Some boots that make you jump really high and run very fast, or a cloak that lets you leviate, even something as simple as horses will do.

    Another thing you can put to make life harder, is ambushes or better survival mode (needing to eat and sleep). That way the player must have in mind if he is traveling to places with more extreme atmospheric conditions and/or has few supplies for the journey he intends to make (that way even small villages or road side inns would have importance). You can even to some extra options into the fast travel like in Daggerfall (if you would traverse trough roads or the wild, if you would stop to sleep, etc).
     
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  21. fantadomat Arcane Edgy Wumao

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    Never had problem with morrowind, COC is strong in me :lol:.
     
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  22. sullynathan Arcane

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    Demon's Souls let you fast travel from the beginning of the game, Dark Souls is the only souls game where fast travel is restricted the most. You can only fast travel once you reach about half way through the game and you can only fast travel to specific bonfires.

    I don't think Fast Travel is decline at all, it's an old game mechanic and has been done right by many games and poorly by others. I don't think anyone here wants to constantly trudge through the ridiculously large worlds multiple times to get through places (unless traversing the world is actually fun).

    I personally like Gothic series fast travel. No loading screen and it is a rune that has lore reasoning and you can use it almost anywhere.
     
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  23. Great Deceiver Arcane

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    The twist is that there is, in fact, fast travel in Dragon's Dogma. It's just limited by the number of Portcrystals - and you need to place them in the gameworld yourself, so the first time you go somewhere, you have to hoof it. Dark Arisen gives you an unlimited ferrystone at the start of the game.

    On topic, I'm sure someone has said something to this effect before, but zero-cost, fire and forget fast travel is beyond retarded. I think Morrowind did it best (and I'm no big fan of Morrowind otherwise).
     
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  24. sser Arcane Cuck Developer

    sser
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    I'm back off or on the wagon or however it's supposed to go so I'm not thinking straight - but with that foundation I'd say fast travel sucks major balls and makes the game a rthymic exercise in go here, go there, when the whole point of any journey is not the begining or end, but the journey titself.
     
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