Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2007
- Messages
- 15,011
I've made the exact opposite argument multiple times on these forums, and mine is much stronger. Free camera control and movement both require so much extra development to account for their interactions (which are mostly trivial, looking at a table from both sides isn't terribly more immersive than 1) that it requires the sacrifice of development elsewhere.
To compare something on relatively equal footing, lets take a pair of games developed for a long time by total aspies obsessed with details.
For 3d we have Wolf359. The combat is fantastically detailed, with excellent AI, detailed movement, locational damage, physics and many kinds of attacks. However, the game has nothing else. It's just combat.
For for 0d we have Dwarf Fortress. The combat is also fantastically detailed, with pretty much everything lugaru has and more. Locational damage is so detailed it includes things like skin, muscle, bone and nerve damage separately. Anything can be used as a weapon, and there are pretty much a limitless variety of both weapons and enemies. Instead of just humanoids you can also fight all manner of animals, weird abomination creatures with strange amounts/types of limbs, and creatures with odd properties like undead that don't need nerves. On top of all that, the game has more than just combat. The creatures have mental status as well, which affects how they fight or flee but also how they work, go to parties, make friends, get married, or have a total breakdown and throw their baby into a bottomless chasm. There is an entire massive procedurally generated world with details like a full history of wars and religions and cultures being wiped out. There is a detailed crafting system that goes all the way from an unmined cliff face to building your own tower made of glass filled with golden statues, engraved floors made of obsidian and an armory of weapons, the quality of which is determined by the skills of their craftsman.
There is nothing that even comes remotely close to dwarf fortress right now. The best bet would probably be Cataclysm DDA, which is maybe half as complex. And by the time we have a first person game that detailed, we'll have a turn based top down style game that includes a simulation of actual physics and chemistry so detailed that you can build your own IEDs out of random parts, and anatomy detailed enough to be used for study by medical students.
Comparing something like Fallout 3's gameplay to that of Cataclysm DDA is like comparing tic-tac-toe to Civilization 3. I can go into the woods naked in the latter and come out with a full suit of clothing, weapons, tools, baggage and probably even a primitive vehicle (I've never tried to get mechanics up and build a wooden cart but it's probably in there, and if not could be modded in within 10 minutes.) In fallout 3 I can't even cut up clothing into rags to bandage a wound. A wound which is just some vague loss of hp, as opposed to an actual crippled limb causing weakness, risking infection, and causing pain and depression.
Fallout 3 is closer in level of realistic detail to Duke Nukem (the sidescrolling one) than it is to Cataclysm DDA.
To compare something on relatively equal footing, lets take a pair of games developed for a long time by total aspies obsessed with details.
For 3d we have Wolf359. The combat is fantastically detailed, with excellent AI, detailed movement, locational damage, physics and many kinds of attacks. However, the game has nothing else. It's just combat.
For for 0d we have Dwarf Fortress. The combat is also fantastically detailed, with pretty much everything lugaru has and more. Locational damage is so detailed it includes things like skin, muscle, bone and nerve damage separately. Anything can be used as a weapon, and there are pretty much a limitless variety of both weapons and enemies. Instead of just humanoids you can also fight all manner of animals, weird abomination creatures with strange amounts/types of limbs, and creatures with odd properties like undead that don't need nerves. On top of all that, the game has more than just combat. The creatures have mental status as well, which affects how they fight or flee but also how they work, go to parties, make friends, get married, or have a total breakdown and throw their baby into a bottomless chasm. There is an entire massive procedurally generated world with details like a full history of wars and religions and cultures being wiped out. There is a detailed crafting system that goes all the way from an unmined cliff face to building your own tower made of glass filled with golden statues, engraved floors made of obsidian and an armory of weapons, the quality of which is determined by the skills of their craftsman.
There is nothing that even comes remotely close to dwarf fortress right now. The best bet would probably be Cataclysm DDA, which is maybe half as complex. And by the time we have a first person game that detailed, we'll have a turn based top down style game that includes a simulation of actual physics and chemistry so detailed that you can build your own IEDs out of random parts, and anatomy detailed enough to be used for study by medical students.
Comparing something like Fallout 3's gameplay to that of Cataclysm DDA is like comparing tic-tac-toe to Civilization 3. I can go into the woods naked in the latter and come out with a full suit of clothing, weapons, tools, baggage and probably even a primitive vehicle (I've never tried to get mechanics up and build a wooden cart but it's probably in there, and if not could be modded in within 10 minutes.) In fallout 3 I can't even cut up clothing into rags to bandage a wound. A wound which is just some vague loss of hp, as opposed to an actual crippled limb causing weakness, risking infection, and causing pain and depression.
Fallout 3 is closer in level of realistic detail to Duke Nukem (the sidescrolling one) than it is to Cataclysm DDA.
