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Fallout I've just finished "Fallout: A Post Nuclear Role Playing Game", and...

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by BarãodoDesterro, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. Citizen Arcane

    Citizen
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    Trying too hard for codex goodboy oldfag points
     
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  2. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Filthy Kalinite Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    The fact that there isn't Come on and Slam -remix for Fallout proves that 2nd point is wrong.
     
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  3. Kev Inkline Arcane Patron

    Kev Inkline
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    A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    So, what's for dinner?
     
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  4. Twiglard Arcane Sad Loser

    Twiglard
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    It's only abuse if you leave the parens unbalanced.
     
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  5. BarãodoDesterro Literate

    BarãodoDesterro
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    "Vault Dweller's memoirs" (I have not read it yet, just have heard about it and have visited the "Fandom") seems to suggest Jacoren is still alive.

    Well... did it all... a shame I tried (and later discovered) I could not turn the guy to the authorities.

    I can't react to posts... consider I'm doing it. [​IMG] Funny x 3

    1. I'm a console player (will not hide it) starting a journey. My problems are not with hotkeys — I've been using them on strategy games (even I am not that hardcore to play AOE2 on my PS2) since ever —, but with the implication that I must use all skills in every frame of the game.
    2. What is it about? I always positioned myself the furthest I could and started shooting guys in the head; then, the guys would start shooting as well: or the avatar would fall and lose a lot of hitpoints, or the avatar would receive damage (even 0 damage), or the avatar would dance.
    I'm not even saying the combat is bad (it is nice) — and maybe someone could even use grenades, psycho, strategy, creating something else — I am highlighting my experience and sharing how I felt.
    One could say, maybe, that people should play "Fallout" on hardest ironman, but no one said it.
    3. [​IMG] Funny
    There is the thing about bad design, even though "The Glow" supposedly killed a lot of "losers", a drug dealer is the key to the secrets of the wasteland.

    To highlight two things.
    Firstly, even if people do not want it, the games belong to Bethesda now — Fallout 3 and 4 are, for all purposes, Fallout games.
    That leads to the second thing, I just played "Fallout 1" because I've played the others; more, I'm not playing games chronologically — I'm playing games that feel more important to me —: it is just normal that I compare them.

    I've played 30 minutes or so. It is on my list, I will play it, but don't exactly know when.
     
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  6. Lurker47 Learned

    Lurker47
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    Fallout is a good game.
     
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  7. Ol' Willy Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Zionist Agent

    Ol' Willy
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    No. These are "Fallout themed games"
     
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  8. Devastator Literate

    Devastator
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    What sort of a console player does not get turned off by Fallout's otherwise glorious graphics?

    You do know that combat is basically optional in Fallout (i.e. you can do a pacifist run if you ignore the fact that you may have to set off a nuke at the end)? The beauty of Fallout is that it can be anything you want it to be. Why settle for dribbling?

    See my previous point. Going to The Glow is worth it because you can finally relax and play a game of chess with an AI. Plenty of background radiation, no one alive nearby, all robots powered off, backpack full of drugs. If that is not relaxing, what is?
     
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  9. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    That description of the setting is largely true for FO1 (though even FO1 has a number of setting-breaking moments that are largely forgotten) but it's not really true of FO2. When I played FO2, the thing that offended me most about the setting was not the talking animals, talking Death Claws, or pop culture references everywhere. It was that the apocalypse seemed basically to be over and done with. There were multiple thriving areas, and various technologies (IIRC) had now surpassed the pre-war levels (particularly in San Francisco).
     
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  10. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

    Gnidrologist
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    You can't (totally) avoid the combat diplomacy {with rats}.
     
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  11. Sigourn Futa Lover

    Sigourn
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    You've discovered Fallout is the most overrated RPG of all time. Not because of what it was in 1997, but because of what people claim it is in 2021. It happens to the best of us, sooner or later. Welcome to the pack.

    Fallout: New Vegas is what happens when an ambitious dev team decides to take a cool setting to "best of all time" levels of greatness. The gameplay is similarly shit, but at least it's more honest about it.
     
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  12. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Indeed.

    It also shows the author is Brazilian. He doesn't merely put parenthesis inside his parenthesis, he puts curly brackets inside brackets inside parenthesis, like this: ([{}]). Do you know where the only place AFAIK where this is taught as the proper method in writing and math? In Brazil. Because I was taught to do it too. Not that his name doesn't say "brazilian", but it shows he is genuinely one and not a troll pretending to be.

    Althrough it still looks like a troll.

    No, it is an excellent moment. Because it drives home the reality of the Great War and its horror. Its very dark and atmospheric. Its a very well-done dungeon, even if its mostly figuring how to unlock stuff and get it working, and the actual content is pretty non-violent. It also has a lot of background info which brings light into a lot of elements in the original game - Power Armor, FEV experiments, the Brotherhood, etc.

    My only issue with The Glow is that the BOS Holodisk despicts the BOS soldiers get massively rekt by some security system which cut a swathe through soldiers in Powered Armor. Except... we never see any such security systems there. The only thing we see is some lame-ass robobrains.

    But here's the thing: Age of Decadence has pretty solid single-character combat. Its excellent, simply delightful. Making it party-based makes it better for the same reason eating more good food is better than less good one. You're still eating good food, your plate is just bigger. Dungeon Rats just builds on what was done, AoD's combat is already solid.

    AoD and Underrail straight demolish the old tired Codex chestnut that good TB combat = party-based.

    Not that I don't like party-based, I think its superior. But those fools saying that if you got a single character you might as well go RT or RTwP, are wrong.

    Fallout's system would need severe redoing to make proper party-based combat work with it. I think its actually kinda sad that Sfall already made controllable NPCs possible but none of the Total Conversions have ever used this.

    But that's the whole point of Fallout 2! The point of 2 is that the old basic apocalypse fight for survival and city-states only concerned with their internal affairs is over. Its has been eighty years, its a new age now - a age of rebuilding, of progress, of powerful city-states and vast nation states. Its telling that in 1, you're trading bottlecaps in the midst of ruins and junk, while in 2, you're buying and selling using gold coins, a gold-backed currency coined by an advanced, hegemonic nation state.

    Remember: Fallout happens 84 years after the war. Fallout 2 is situated 168 years after the war. Even after a nuclear war, that's a lot of time. Things happen, things change, the world revolves and turns. The world of 1853 was very different from our own, why would the world of 2242 be just like the world of 2161?

    One of the big sins of the Bethesda Fallouts is that they don't look like a nuclear war happened 200 years ago, but 2, 20 years ago. In FO1 you had cities like The Hub which were rough around the sides, but prospering and doing well for themselves. In FO3 you have a bunch of hanger-on settlements with popullation capable of being counted with a single finger and honestly no idea how those people can even survive in a wasteland full of raiders and Super Mutants, and serious questions about wtf everyone was doing for the last two centuries. Fucking Junktown would look like a thriving Metropolis in comparison.

    Still, there's lots of kinks to work out, which is where the action of Fallout 2 comes in - there's still plenty of chaos and anarchy. Its still the Wild West, Cowboys with Lasers.
     
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  13. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    That is an inapt comparison. Of course a densely populated, fertile world that has just developed rapid transit and has just opened up huge areas of untapped natural resources would boom economically in 168 years. The world FO1 posits is utterly different from that. There's no comparison we can draw from our world, but you might consider Mexico after the Conquest -- so it dropped from ~25M people and a prosperous, thriving civilization in early 1500s to ~6M in 1545 to ~2.5M in 1570 to 1.2M in 1620. In 1800 it was ~5M. What grew back in Mexico was not a high-tech version of the Aztec Empire, either. The collapsed civilization never really came back.

    The problem with FO2 is that it doesn't look like a second-growth civilization coming up among the ruins of the old civilization (like a Charlemagne Holy Roman Empire or whatever). The Shi are just a thriving continuation of the preexisting civilization -- Aztecs with spaceships. None of it makes the least sense because all of the technology that is miraculously being built upon in FO2 presupposed supply chains that don't exist.

    But to be clear, I don't want FO2 to be realistic -- I want it to be thematic. And there was a rich, existing literature of second-growth post-apocalyptic civilization (the low-hanging fruit would be A Canticle for Leibowitz, explicitly referenced in FO). That literature does not have hyper-high-tech radiation-eating plants being engineered 168 years after the apocalypse. In Leibowitz, it takes 1000+ years to get there. If anything, FO2 feels more like right after a less destructive apocalypse, when the old order hasn't yet completely collapsed. You don't go from Junktown to New Reno (thematically or realistically); you go from New Reno to Junktown as the pre-apocalypse infrastructure that New Reno depicts breaks down. That shit doesn't last 168 years after the supply chains are broken; it might not even make it 30 years.
     
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  14. Volourn Pretty Princess Pretty Princess

    Volourn
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    "(i.e. you can do a pacifist run if you ignore the fact that you may have to set off a nuke at the end)?"

    "(ie. You can be a virgin in life if you ignore the fact that you may have to have an orgy that one time.)


    rOOL THE FUKK EYES.




    P.S. OP is retart
     
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  15. Funposter Liturgist

    Funposter
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    San Fransisco having advanced technology goes into the same category as talking animals and the rest of the general fucktardery present in FO2. The best bits are all tied to FO1 in some way and the wholly original material tends to be mediocre or bad.
     
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  16. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    That's because the Mesoamericans were done for. One-two punch invasion plus conquest. The Mayans were already a shadow of themselves by the time Cortes came.

    Also people super-estimated pre-discovery Mexico. It was more like tropical Mesopotamia than a vast unified empire. The Aztecs/Mexica were a glorified city-state.
    Real clicher is the Tawantisuyo/Inca falling. It was really a lot of

    Also, the Mesoamericans and Incans didn't have scrap from an ancient civilization which they could salvage and take things from. Sure, the Spanish brought a nice tech upgrade from bronze age to 1500s tech, but that's no longer their civilization but the Spanish one.

    What do you think the NCR is? The NCR is the Charlemagne Holy Roman Empire.

    Also, the supply chains do exist. Shi + Brotherhood of Steel + NCR + Vault City.

    The Shi are advanced for the same reason the BOS is advanced: They preserved the ancient knowledge and tech. They're one of the few Fallout factions actually doing their own new science rather than relying on pre-war hand-me-downs. Also, they're camped on San Francisco and that was always a pretty advanced, industrial area.

    Also, they don't have spaceships. The Hubologists do, and pretty sure they didn't make from scratch. Also, their spaceship is flawed and if they launch it, they die in multiple ways.


    I think you missed the part where a not insignificant chunk of the world in FO2 is frontier running mostly 1800s tech and tribals going around with spears and knives. The primitivism is totally there.

    Worth noting that Junktown is a settlement built literally from zero out of a junkyard in nowhere, while New Reno is a special case: Its one of the few areas in the Fallout universe that didn't get nuked nor suffered from serious radioactive fallout - unlike Vegas, which got no nukes but the fallout got them anyway. They had the whole Reno-Sparks metropolitan area to use. Also, we never saw Fallout 1-era New Reno.

    Hub is also not exactly primitive, either.

    The Fallout West Coast also had an often-overlooked hand-me-down: The Brotherhood slowly but surely introduced technology for decades within New California. The Followers of the Apocalypse were also big on preserving learning.

    There's a big reason technology took so long to come back in A Canticle for Leibowitz: The Simplification. The surviving common folk got so pissed, they literally went "Fuck technology, return to Monke" and started destroying all technology, science and learning. We're talking about a civilization where "my good simpleton" is a positive greeting and being a illiterate is a good thing. Leibowitz got martyrized because of his Booklegging. It was the Catholic Church which preserved knowledge in the form of the Memorabilia, even through they eventually lost any understanding of what it meant and spent years before they stopped mindlessly copying and started actually making tech.

    We never got a portrait about the rest of the world during that period, but I suspect something similar happened, otherwise the Atlantic Conferacy would't have been able to match the Asians in the future.

    This never happened in the Fallout universe. In fact, they had the Brotherhood and the Followers doing what the church did, but far better - because unlike the monks, they actually understood the knowledge they guarded.

    If the Shi having advanced technology doesn't make sense, then the Brotherhood having advanced technology also makes no sense. I don't understand some people's strange silly grudge with the Shi.

    Also the talking animals were explained in FO2. Well, except that plant. That was really strange and bizarre.
     
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  17. urmom Learned

    urmom
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    Fallout 1 was my first Fallout. I can't imagine playing it *after* 2 or 3 or 4.
     
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  18. Funposter Liturgist

    Funposter
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    Just because something was explained doesn't make it reasonable or enjoyable.
     
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  19. Daedalos Arcane The Real Fanboy

    Daedalos
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    Shitting on fallout...

    That's a paddlin'
     
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  20. Morii Savant

    Morii
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    To this day I still think there is deep meaning and hidden message behind that Scorpion chess player quest.
     
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  21. Zboj Lamignat Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    Lol. It's very easy to criticize Fallout's combat, because there's a lot there that could be improved or expanded upon and it's definitely rather simplistic, but calling it "total crap" is completely ridiculous. In fact, it's pretty much one of the smoothest (provided you move combat speed slider to the maximum right:p) and most enjoyable combat experiences in classic crpgs. It has guns, animations and critical hit flavor texts that don't get old on your 20th playthrough. And then there's the context: the dialogue, the scenarios and the characters that make many encounters really satisfying.
    Yeah, right. The best "bits" of F2 is the mid-game, the power struggle between the different bigger and smaller players in the region, how they all tie together and, most importantly, how it's something you don't just hear about but actively participate in through expansive chains of interwoven quests. Which not only isn't tied to FO1 at all, but also something F1 didn't have, because its "amazingly designed, realistic and down to earth" settlements were literally 2-3 quest dispensers, a shop and some retarded random shit like a guy making canned people or robin hood with his thief guild, because we always have to remember that only F2 had stupid random shit, F1 never did.
     
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  22. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Filthy Kalinite Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    I played Fallout 2 and Arcanum before I got my hands on FO1.
    My impression about it back then was "Tightly designed, but kinda simplistic and latter games have some very much needed QoL improvements; Shady Sands was obvious demo content and had some ideas that weren't used elsewhere".
     
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  23. Commissar Draco Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar Patron

    Commissar Draco
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    Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2

    :bro::obviously::bro:

    Show me Fallout game when you can decide how entire nation states live and die and no killing some ten raiders not counts Comrade, I remember how you could totally f... V city by accidentally poisoning their water supply, strong arming them for NCR/Bishops or do the opposite, make gold mines full of town join them and become Vault City Guard Captain... when you entered there as stinking tribal in old vault suit. What a pitty that we never seen Arroyo and in all its glory aside from extro pic:

    [​IMG]

    In which it looks rather glorius with those three giant basilica buildings.... Churches or Governmental buildings?

    Also we can visit the New Reno around time of Fallout 1 in Fallout Nevada it had Major, City Council and Police Department thirty to forty years after the Great war with wave of looting and anarchy when Old Mayor died and people were able to live ''free of his tyranny'' . :lol: So it makes sense to look like Ghetto or slums instead of burn down ruins like Clamath or Den.
     
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  24. Ol' Willy Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Zionist Agent

    Ol' Willy
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    My man, that's so true. Fallout combat lacks tacticoolness, but it's so enjoyable overall - yes, smooth indeed. Controls are very good, audiovisual stimuli are working perfectly: when you bust a cap - and weapon sounds are great, Gauss rifle thump alone worths a lot - score a crit and guy explodes like a watermelon or melts down. And considering the finest quality of spritework of NPCs and locations, which adds even more. A lot of games have more tacticoolness, but not many of them are so smooth.
     
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  25. Darth Slaughter Arcane Patron

    Darth Slaughter
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    Divinity: Original Sin
    Well, being a Brazilian myself, iirc the right order actually is {[()]}. At least in math...
     
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