1eyedking Japanese games are shit. Here's why.

[KalosKagathos]

In somewhat related note. Disgaea 4 limited edition would cost 115$. Disgaea 4 normal edition would cost 85$. It looks like fight against computer piracy was sufficient to allow rise in prices.

I heard Nippon Ichi is about to go bankrupt, so that may be the reason for the silly price. Wonder if they'll have the balls to charge this much for the PAL version, which will probably come out 6 months later.

 

[Cassidy]

I like how many of the defenders of ^_^ are also Biowhore and Obsidian fanboys, considering how both are doing games that are possibly more railroaded than the average JRPs. Speaks volumes about what kind of target audience both western companies desire.

 

[Archibald]

Meh, wouldn`t be surprised, they kinda flooded the market with their shit.

 

[Zeus]

they look like hairstyles that a normal person could have.

The man didn't say anime characters had haircuts normal people couldn't have, he said their hair was stylized, and looked like hair posters in a salon.

Practically each one of those shots is a famous fetishized look, from #1's flowing 70s poster girl hair, to #2's naughty schoolgirl, to #5's Marilyn Monroe, to the anglo-fab braids of Age of Conan. All obtainable by normal means (beauty salon) and by normal people (who want highly styled hair).

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Sooo I'll gladly admit I've been trolling about jap games earlier, but the fact of the matter is that I have played very few jap games. So in order to educate myself:

Can the weaboos name the five best jap games you know of that are playable on a PC or with an emulator? Preferably not a bullet hell or a platformer, as I have little interest in these genres.

 

[Zeus]

In the vein of my original request (which nobody as deigned to answer), we can have a direct comparison between the best western art versus the best Japanese art, and see which has the least amount of faggotry in it. I don't see how posting the worst for either side is going to help resolve this argument.

Good lord, "best art"? Did someone really just put out a call for TEH BEST ART?

This is why forums usually ban discussions about the best this or the best that. It leads to endless squabbles. Especially when talking about something as subjective as art.

Anyway, one of my favorite JRPG artists is Yoshitaka Amano, who drew Final Fantasy characters until FFVIII, when they replaced him with an annoying clown who turned everyone into belt-wearing 17 year olds.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Good lord, "best art"? Did someone really just put out a call for TEH BEST ART?

This is why forums usually ban discussions about the best this or the best that. It leads to endless squabbles. Especially when talking about something as subjective as art.

What a bunch of stupid shit. The entire point of a discussion is to develop a truly objective opinion on a particular subject by comparing opposing point of views juxtaposed with one's own personal impression. Nobody gives a shit about your "preferences". Its precisely this type of feminine, relativistic mindset that makes discussion a pointless exercise in futility as people "share" their tastes with each other for their own pathetic emotional self aggrandizement rather then expanding their knowledge and understanding of the world. To wit, which of the following statement have a greater potential for learning and individual growth:

1) One of my favored artists is Michelangelo

2) Michelangelo was the best artist of the renaissance.

Dickscuss!

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Why are you guys talking about jRPGs all the time instead of talking about great Japanese arcade games?

 

[Zeus]

2) Michelangelo was the best artist of the renaissance.

Right, which is why that phrase turns up all of zero results on Google.

No results found for "Michelangelo was the best artist of the renaissance."

Even "best artist of the renaissance" turns up all of five pages, the top two are on a game discussion forum.

Why? Because that's the kind of place where people say things like, Michelangelo was the best artist of the renaissance.

In other news, come on guys! Lyric Suite wants TEH BEST ART! TELL HIM WHAT TEH BEST ART IS!

 

[1eyedking]

In the vein of my original request (which nobody as deigned to answer), we can have a direct comparison between the best western art versus the best Japanese art, and see which has the least amount of faggotry in it. I don't see how posting the worst for either side is going to help resolve this argument.

OK, I'll start:

First have some neo-classical David...

And now some social realistic Repin...

So bring forth the tentacles, I say!

 

[Lyric Suite]

Repin was the greater artist.

 

[Black Cat]

The various dialogs also help to keep things interesting but I wonder if this is due to the translation or if the original dialogs also had the self-aware quality of referencing other video games or internet/gamer jargon.

I believe this was on the original, too, though i never managed to get far into it given my Japanese is barely present, if at all. The game's actually a small doujin game, kind of like an independant game made by people deep inside Japan's own geek, gamer, and otaku subcultures, so the self referencing, the jargon, and the inside jokes were probably already there, though they may have been localized and adapted to a western equivalent for our comprehension.

Either way, I'd rather play a bald marine than an orphan faggot who could pass for a woman anytime.

But this guy would die a virgin as long as this guy is around.

Already did. Reading is teh hard.

No, you didn't. I'm not asking for you to give me your subjective opinion. I want a step by step, element by element analysis of why a given design is cutesy in those images. Saying the old guy with the eyepatch is cutesy isn't a detailed analysis, it's your opinion. So, given it is so clear and obvious to you, please explain to me, element by element, why is he.

Your subjective considerations are worth shit.

I'm sorry, what? Really, is that another way of saying I have no idea about art direction (nice that you consider yourself artsy... so fitting) so just I'm gonna deny this argument?

Wikipedia to the rescue!

"In logic, an argument is a set of one or more meaningful declarative sentences (or "propositions") known as the premises along with another meaningful declarative sentence (or "proposition") known as the conclusion. A deductive argument asserts that the truth of the conclusion is a logical consequence of the premises; an inductive argument asserts that the truth of the conclusion is supported by the premises. Deductive arguments are valid or invalid, and sound or not sound. An argument is valid if and only if the truth of the conclusion is a logical consequence of the premises and (consequently) its corresponding conditional is a necessary truth. A sound argument is a valid argument with true premises."

Therefore, saying...

And arguments.. yeah... the argument that there is no art direction in JRPGs but just throwing shit together apparently wasn't an argument enough since you and CK keep vomiting the "BUT WEERE R ARGUMANTS" line.

...is a proposition, not an argument. But, yes, you already knew that, o prime example of the western cultural elite. Stop worrying about anime and go back to school, you ignorant dipshit.

. . .

I actually liked your post. At least you can actually describe what you don't like. There are some small points, though. First, there's the part about lack of facial detail, which isn't, in itself, unique to anime but a requeriment to keep budgets manageable in all styles of animation that want to be kept marketeable, so while an individual artist may do artsy animations without those constraints the amount of detail a TV Show or a Movie can pull depends on the budget they have and nothing else.

On the hairstyles the usual argument isn't that they are too fashionable or too stylized but that they are stupid haircuts implying gravity defying and ridiculously complex styles. No one said anime style isn't superficial as hell. Who in her or his right mind would want to play a game about ugly people? In any case, said in that way, yes, most commit that sin, in particular in the for-teens works, shoujo and shounen. A small, and somewhat important, detail about anime and manga is that art styles and narrative styles change varying on what group, as defined by the target demographic age and gender, the work falls into.

It is true, though, that Anime is, we could say, over stylized even across styles, though the way it carries away that stylization may vary depending on the style of the artist and the target demographic. If you want, a better way to describe what's really anime style would pass through excesive stylization and a well marked emphasis on style and appearance, and making things pretty or nice or, maybe even more, cool, over any kind of substance. For example, and I'm going to cheat a bit, but, say, Black Lagoon (one example, another example) isn't really all that compatible with the list you gave, though it is still very stylized inside it's own genre, at times to the point of turning into a pretty self conscious parody of itself.

Before I answer that, I have to say something. There seems to be a trend here for many posters, in that you have to close your post with some sort of demeaning comment against the person you are having an argument with. Why is that?

I don't really know. My money's on the horrible, infamous, eternally raging local Egregore, the one entity known as the Hivemind, influencing us and getting under our skin and whispering words of hate to our ears, turning happy nya nya nekos into hostile little bitches.

I'm sorry about the hostility, though, so thank you for bringing it up.

So on to your point. You said earlier (rather you agreed with someone saying) that "they are retarded, but cool". That's fine by me and if you're able to enjoy games with those elements, good for you. I find myself usually unable to enjoy games that are full of retarded but cool stuff (of eastern or western origin) even if the underlying game is actually good. Setting, atmosphere, the general tone of the game is important to me and I don't really appreciate silliness. I can understand how someone could be able to see past that, but I can't. It kills the mood for me.

I'm perfectly fine with that, so again i'm sorry if i overdid the hostility. In my case my brother got me interested into games by means of arcade games and plataformers and the like, so i don't really care all that for setting or mood as long as the game's fun, weird, and cool to look at. Add cool music and i'm a happy neko.

Also, i care mostly for concepts. To my eyes two games whose plot has the same structure are telling the same story, the rest being worthless details regardless of those details being catpeople with magical singing powers or deep characterization. So, really, the similitudes between japanese games don't hurt my refined (LOL) taste any more than the similitudes elsewhere.

Can the weaboos name the five best jap games you know of that are playable on a PC or with an emulator? Preferably not a bullet hell or a platformer, as I have little interest in these genres.

Clock Tower, Strange Journey, Silent Hill 2, Devil May Cry 3, the Deception games, Devil Survivor, and The World Ends With You are the ones almost everyone likes. Nippon Ichi's games are also good, and they are pretty wacky. I liked Shadow Of Memories, but that's just me.

If you are into japanese myth or occult beliefs check Kuon, but otherwise leave it. I personally love Theresia, though that's mostly a game about wandering a huge creepy complex, solving puzzles, and getting killed by traps that spring from everything you touch. Checked the wrong book? Trap! Moved the chair in the wrong direction? Trap! Opened the wrong door? Trap! Steped on the wrong place? Trap! Etc, etc.

If you are into artsy stuff, Yumme Nikki. If you are into weird shit and really creepy stories, and don't mind lots of misplaced porn to get at it, check some Nitro+ games like Saya No Uta and Chaos;Head. If you are into horror games add The Calling to this list. Hellnight is fun if you can get it, a game where you mostly run around labyrinths solving puzzles and trying not to get slaughtered by an immortal monster that's very obsessed about doing funny things to you.

Is the Legend of Cao Cao japanese? If so, play that one too. At least, try to. That game's hardcore.

 

[Zeus]

I'm not sure if Renaissance art is the way to prove the West has "less faggotry."

Hey look, it's Lyric Suite's favorite artis...er... the BEST ARTIST OF THE RENAISSANCE.

And there's David's lovingly hand-carved penis!

 

[Lyric Suite]

I'm not sure if Renaissance art is the way to prove the West has "less faggotry."

I was talking about video game art. I brought up Michelangelo to make a point.

 

[1eyedking]

Repin was the greater artist.

I believe you haven't noticed how subtly David uses opaque reds, whites, and blues in all of his works?

Sorry LS, David was the better one.

I'm not sure if Renaissance art is the way to prove the West has "less faggotry."

Hey look, it's Lyric Suite's favorite artis...er... the BEST ARTIST OF THE RENAISSANCE.

And there's David's lovingly hand-carved penis!

Plebians cannot into art.

The David is practically an hymn to masculinity. The stance, the hands, the stare, the muscles, the veins...

 

[Trash]

So, what jap games should someone who has had very little exposure to them really try out?

 

[Hamster]

Behold the real art!

http://www.moodbook.com/history/modernism/malevich-black-square.html

Black Square a a spirit of sensation which pervades everything

Black Square is a feeling

Black Square is a void

Black Square is God

Black Square is an icon

Black Square is zero of painting

Black Square is painting beyond painting

Black Square immediately occupied its own niche in the long and complex history of world art. Many books and articles were written about the phenomenon, confirming the unique and select nature of Black Square in the context of twentieth century art.

 

[Zeus]

So, what jap games should someone who has had very little exposure to them really try out?

Depends on what you want, mang. Are you a graphics whore? Does story matter most? Are you in the mondblut faction and way into turn-based tactical combat?

What people don't seem to realize is that there are as many varieties of JRPGs as WRPGs: dungeon crawlers with blob combat, roguelikes, even open world stuff if you look hard enough.

Personally, I dig Final Fantasy 6 for plot (it made John Romero cry!), Final Fantasy Tactics for combat, Persona 3 for its horror setting and weirdass magic system based on social links (endure the gormond noodle fanboy's presence and increase magic power), Chrono Trigger for general mainstream crowd-pleasing, plus a highly reactive storyline (it has like 11 endings), Etrian Odyssey or Dark Spire for dungeon crawling... the list goes on, but I'd need to know what you're into to make a good suggestion.

 

[Black Cat]

The Black Square of Kazimir Malevich is one of the most famous creations of Russian art in the last century. The first Black Square was painted in 1915 to become the turning point in the development of Russian avant-garde.

 

[Trash]

So, what jap games should someone who has had very little exposure to them really try out?

Depends on what you want, mang. Are you a graphics whore? Does story matter most? Are you in the mondblut faction and way into turn-based tactical combat?

What people don't seem to realize is that there are as many varieties of JRPGs as WRPGs: dungeon crawlers with blob combat, roguelikes, even open world stuff if you look hard enough.

Personally, I dig Final Fantasy 6 for plot (it made John Romero cry!), Final Fantasy Tactics for combat, Persona 3 for its horror setting and weirdass magic system based on social links (endure the gormond noodle fanboy's presence and increase magic power), Chrono Trigger for general mainstream crowd-pleasing, plus a highly reactive storyline (it has like 11 endings), Etrian Odyssey or Dark Spire for dungeon crawling... the list goes on, but I'd need to know what you're into to make a good suggestion.

Strategy and rpg's are my main favs. Though to be honest, a good game is a good game.

The Black Square of Kazimir Malevich is one of the most famous creations of Russian art in the last century. The first Black Square was painted in 1915 to become the turning point in the development of Russian avant-garde.

Prole.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Roguelikes

 

[FeelTheRads]

...is a proposition, not an argument. But, yes, you already knew that, o prime example of the western cultural elite.

I see I have to take you through it step by step:

Premise: Japanese games have tons of styles thrown in together.
Conclusion: Japanese games have no art direction.

Now you get it?
What, do you want a premise for the premise? You just need eyes. A knight with jetpack and two firearms is not art direction, it's just shit thrown together for the fuck of it.

No, you didn't. I'm not asking for you to give me your subjective opinion. I want a step by step, element by element analysis of why a given design is cutesy in those images.

So you're telling me this looks like a man and not a kid with a beard slapped on?

And this looks like an old monk and not a kid with a beard slapped on?

And all have those childish/womanly eyes that look like they've just put on eyeliner.

Not surprising, though, considering the usual cutesy shit you play that this would seem realistic.

Plebians cannot into art.

The David is practically an hymn to masculinity. The stance, the hands, the stare, the muscles, the veins...

Naked male = gay. Weaboo reasoning at its best.

 

[Zeus]

Strategy and rpg's are my main favs. Though to be honest, a good game is a good game.

Then check out Final Fantasy Tactics. The plot is nonsensical, but the music and combat are freakin' amazing, especially if you like small-scale tactical battles. I've posted about FFT earlier in the thread, I believe, but basically you can dual-class in interesting ways: start out training as a knight, learn permanent abilities (+Equip Shield), then switch over to a weak Black Mage, keeping one of your sub-classed Knight skills.

Which means your weakly wizard can equip heavy armor with no penalty.

I'm a sucker for "combos," and FFT has 'em in spades. The Monk class can learn this thing where he revives himself and any surrounding allies. Once you learn it, you can switch over to another skill and continue using the Chakra even after you're a Lancer or somesuch.

Plebians cannot into art.

I'm not saying it isn't art. I'm saying it not heterosexual art. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

The David is practically an hymn to masculinity. The stance, the hands, the stare, the muscles, the veins...

I'm sure Tommaso dei Cavalieri would agree.

 

[Trash]

FFT? Grinding does not a fun strategy or tactical game make. Chrono Trigger has shit combat and again that lame-ass art direction. Not to mention incredible childish characters. Other than that it was fun though. Persona is another dull grind. Didn't play the rest.

 

[Zeus]

I always had so much fun with FFT's combat system that it never felt much like grinding to me.

Unfortunately, grinding is pretty well integrated into JRPGs, since they're all so influenced by the early Wizardry games.

CT is more about the plot than the combat, though Triad Attacks are kind of neat. I wouldn't call it a tactical/strategy RPG by any means.