JE Sawyer on rolls and role-playing

[Volourn]

"I suggested this for ToEE, but I still like the idea of it, even for PnP. The hit points per level should be determined by taking the number of the dice normally rolled, subtract the number 4 from that hit dice number, and then add a d4 roll to it. So, a fighter would have 6 hit points guaranteed for a level up plus an additional 1-4 hit points and a sorcerer would get 2 hit points plus an additional 1-4. It allows a degree of randomness but still makes sure that the sorcerer doesn't get 5 hit points while the fighter gets 2 hit points on a level up."

A fair compromise. You should be a polictian.


" can see Volourn hasn't changed any."

What did you expect? Oh, I know, you actually believed that the Codex was capable of brainwashing me. Think again. As my (non existent) friends would tell you; peer pressure AUTOMATICALLY fails on me.

 

[RGE]

I prefer point buy. Once a D&D basic DM told me to reroll my dwarf's HPs because I always rolled a 7 or 8 on my D8, and he thought my dwarf became too powerful. So I got burned on rolling for HPs.

Other times I have seen people roll incredibly low HPs early in the game, which means that those low rolls have a much higher impact since we might not play long enough for the luck to change. And their chances of staying alive for the luck to change also diminishes.

I wish rolling for stats was the past, but the most recent fantasy RPG we got here in Sweden includes a random roll for career, which can increase or decrease every skill. It's incredibly unfair, but perhaps it's a way of telling the players to not get too attached to their characters. It's kind of like having the player roll a 'Create Character' skill roll, where they can fail, succeed, fumble or get a critical success. Yeah, taking the rollplaying out of the book! :shock:

 

[Seven]

"at the end of the day it is wholly possible to get those two identical fighters"

Really? So, these two fighters have the same hair, same colour eyes, same hieght, same weight, same eprsonality, same background? same parents? Same DNA exactly? WOWSERS!

I didn't know PC fighters were actually clones. :shock:

Sure, technically, you could purpsoefully make 2 fighters exactly the same statsically and with the same skills, feats, and the like; but quite frankly; that's quite boring which is why I support rolling for hit points and ability scores.


"Is Volourn allways replying on simple arguments with hassle and trying to offend the other person?"

Yes, espciially when its someone like Spazzy who has a habit of doing the same to others. All is fair.

Try to make sense for one day. We are talking about PCs and NPCs. They have no DNA, they are comprised of code; this means that their outward appearence is irrelevent when compared to their feats and ability scores, get it? This is how they're the same. And yes, we both support rolling in Dnd (because for me it adds uniqueness; however, in *your* crazy little world everything's unique and PCs and NPCs have DNA).

Honestly, some times you make absolutely no sense: Computer characters with DNA, yeah that's rich.

 

[undead dolphin hacker]

Volourn: Shut the fuck up.

In reponse to the OP:

Point-buy makes much more sense than rolling. HP per level should be a fixed amount (modified by CON) too.

 

[Petey_the_Skid]

Meh. The point buy system offered for D&D pretty much sucks actually. I like the 4d6 7 times, discard the lowest die, then place where you want system and discard the lowest score. As for hp's like it says in the book, you can either take you're luck and roll the die, or take the average hp for you're class each level. Since starting char's always have max hp in most campaigns(another rule from the books actually). Some people are just healthier than others. That's why they have boxers out there who look rough and tough, but have what is termed a "glass jaw". They might be able to dish out the heat, but if you take it to em they go down easy.

Now in Computer rpg's, it makes a bit more sense not to have too much random stuff. This allows for more easy balancing and plannning of encounters by designers, as well as distinct paths through the game, rather than being able to do it all in one go, which would increase replay value.

 

[Volourn]

"Volourn: Shut the fuck up."

Cum to 644 Lakeshore Dr Unit 36, North Bay, Ontario, Kanada and amke me. Oh yeah, you won't. So, since you don't have the ballz to make me, I won't. Next.

 

[trystero]

DnD is too complex math for PnP

Since when is addition and subtraction 'too complex math'

 

[Kamaz]

If it was simple addition , I would not complain. It just has so many formulas that [try to] describe the gameworld/events/magics/characters it gets really un-interesting to keep track of that all in PnP game. In cRPG it makes sense because you are not the one to calculate and bear in mind that, but in PnP other things - like storytelling/choices/adventures - are more important that correct roll. GM has to tweak everything anyways to fit its game and not let poor party die against first kobolds.

 

[ElastiZombie]

"Volourn: Shut the fuck up."

Cum to 644 Lakeshore Dr Unit 36, North Bay, Ontario, Kanada and amke me. Oh yeah, you won't. So, since you don't have the ballz to make me, I won't. Next.

So much for the myth of the polite Canadian :D

 

[Whipporowill]

Oh, Ted just want's company for dinner again. Try asking politely next time, and someone might actually show up. How's your cooking skillz b t w?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

So much for the myth of the polite Canadian :D

Hadn't Terrence & Philipp already destroyed it?

 

[Volourn]

"Hadn't Terrence & Philipp already destroyed it?"

I thought I had destroyed years ago. I gotta try harder, I guess.


"So much for the myth of the polite Canadian "

Don't believe the fecade.


"How's your cooking skillz b t w?"

Depends what you like to eat (please say me).

 

[Whipporowill]

Raw meat? No thank you.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

"How's your cooking skillz b t w?"

Depends what you like to eat (please say me).

Volourn's cooking hits teh market!

 

[Avin]

point buy in a pen and paper game means that your players won't be jealous of other players stats.

point buy is the only choice for MP games, unless you wanna find 18/18/18/18/18/18/18 players.

 

[Seven]

Just a thought. Is Volourn the first openly gay codex member?

 

[Whipporowill]

Just a thought. Is Volourn the first openly gay codex member?

He's just larping.

 

[Volourn]

No. becasue I am Volourn. I am neither gay or hetero or bi. I am just am.

 

[Seven]

No. becasue I am Volourn. I am neither gay or hetero or bi. I am just am.

I believe you meant to say "I am just I", unless of course you consider yourself to be a verb or an adverb.

On thread related business do you still believe that PCs and NPCs can have DNA?

 

[taks]

I suggested this for ToEE, but I still like the idea of it, even for PnP. The hit points per level should be determined by taking the number of the dice normally rolled, subtract the number 4 from that hit dice number, and then add a d4 roll to it. So, a fighter would have 6 hit points guaranteed for a level up plus an additional 1-4 hit points and a sorcerer would get 2 hit points plus an additional 1-4. It allows a degree of randomness but still makes sure that the sorcerer doesn't get 5 hit points while the fighter gets 2 hit points on a level up.

this is actually the same as saying a fighter is d4 + 6 and a wizard is d4 + 0. not including CON bonus, of course, assuming you intended for those to count. what you've done is force the average a little higher for fighter types to 9.5 from 5.5 AND, forced a minimum of 7 which will shrink the variance (the average of the squares minus the square of the averages) of the result over multiple rolls.

i don't personally mind shrinking the variances in such a way. i will concede that most fighter types with the same general background and genetics (CON) should be similar, just not identical. i mean, if you are the one in a hundred billion fool that only has a 14 CON and happened to roll a "1" three or four times in a row, the game suddenly does become unfun and PowerWord: Reload is required.

taks

 

[Smiffus]

The problem most people have with the rolling for hit points stems from the fact that you use a one die system, you get a flat average, ie. the same change for abject failure (a 1) or lipsmacking success (max hp). Personally I am in favour of using a multiple die system so you get a bell curve average, instead of using 1d8 you could use 2d4 or even 4d2.

What do you guys think about rolling for damage?

 

[RGE]

Rolling for damage is ok, but that's one roll for one attack, not one roll for one level for the rest of that character's life. With NPCs it's different, because they're not meant to live as long.

When I sent skeletons against the PCs I only rolled the D12 for HPs when a skeleton was attacked, so some were tougher than others. But they all died anyway, and I did it to provide an unknown factor to the combat, because otherwise the players would know exactly how much of a beating each skeleton could take.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

That's the part that bothers me. You get one wonky roll, and your character is stuck with it forever. I don't mind the variance being shifted - that's the whole damned point! Sure, fighters will be more similar in hit point values versus other fighters, but they'll be a lot different than sorcerers.

 

[triCritical]

yeah, actually, it does make sense. everyone in here seems to agree that the original version of D&D didn't allow enough diversity. 2E characters were all carbon copies of one-another... yet here you are saying that ALL fighters with a 16 CON should have identical duration (hit points). volourn quite clearly expressed what constitution does; it increases your average. it makes you more durable on average, yet there is STILL some variability. otherwise, they're all the same and we go back to the same problems everybody gripes about in the first place.

Yeah but the spread of the distribution is enormous. You basically have this enourmous standard deviation with the mean moving a tiny fraction of the distribution and that is ridiculous. If it was a sharper distribution ala poisson with large shifts based on constitution and remove the class qualification of determining the HP's the system would be better.

Hence, your constitution determines the mean and you roll a six sider for a +/- 3 random modifier. The problem is that would make sense.

 

[taks]

The problem most people have with the rolling for hit points stems from the fact that you use a one die system, you get a flat average, ie. the same change for abject failure (a 1) or lipsmacking success (max hp). Personally I am in favour of using a multiple die system so you get a bell curve average, instead of using 1d8 you could use 2d4 or even 4d2.

uh, this statement isn't entirely true. after multiple levels, it is a bell curve. in the end, you end up with nearly identical results... i can show you why if you'd like (actually, there's a thread i posted in a while back regarding just such an idea... similar at least).

What do you guys think about rolling for damage?

it should be random. magical weapons have the bonus which forces an idea for damage similar to SP's HP method. just less bonus (in general, though max is +10 now i suppose) and more spread (d4 for SP's method, up to 2d6 or more for various weapons).

taks