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Jeff Vogel Soapbox Thread

Narushima

Cipher
Joined
Jun 14, 2019
Messages
2,035
6hWMZRl.png
"Save the Lemmings and... break the wall"???
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Jan 4, 2007
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33,048
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I think he's depressed.
I'd also be depressed if I spent the last decade chucking out remakes of remakes that seem to usually only get worse with each iteration, but he's only got himself to blame for that.

He has become so risk-averse that he doesn't even try making something original at this point, he only relies on remakes and his new games are formulaic paint-by-numbers affairs that are a mere shadow of his earlier works.

I wager he doesn't get to do much fun stuff in his free time, either, but sticks with safe activities that don't pose any risk to his health and don't cost too much money to do.

He seems to have fallen into the trap of valuing safety and stability above everything else to the point that there's nothing exciting left in his life.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Also, the context is really different. Loop Hero emulated the Amiga aesthetic, if had been released in 1991 for sure it would be on everyone's "Best Amiga games" list. In 2021, might not even make it into the Top 10 of the year.

Same for something like Pathfinder, Solasta or ATOM. Tech aside, if these games had come out in the 2000s, they would easily have been celebrated classics. The bar is much higher for the games that come later, especially when there's a lot of competition.
Even when you account for all of this, there's still not as many good 2021 games as Amiga had in 1991. This is despite there being about 30-50x more games released overall.
The quality of games has taken a nosedive.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,859
Well, he could have made endless add-on scenario modules for each game and cashed in. Worse, he could have made a bunch of add-on random generation scenarios.

Some people enjoyed the idea of the continuing saga with same party or same base game construction but different game. As to creating endless scenarios, the dude who should have got sued for his wizardry 1 and ultima III modules for the apple comes to mind. I wanted more Wizard's Crown, Shard of Spring, Bardstale, Phantasie and Questron Games (Ultima 3-5s as well). Sequels helped.

Some games flopped completely when you look at what they wanted to accomplish (looking at you Alternate Reality series).

So Lord British tried to innovate and Jeff just stayed safe. I like the games up to a certain point. Queen Wish seems dumbed down but maybe I should give it another chance.

I really enjoy the Exile style series because of the style. That is the old flat 2D gamer in me that stems from ACS. It is no wonder I enjoyed Wyvern MMO when it came out (until it shut down).

I haven't looked at spiderweb forums or Jeff's blog so I have no clue what he plans if anything.
 
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Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
I haven't looked at spiderweb forums or Jeff's blog so I have no clue what he plans if anything.
What he plans is queen wish with a bit more options if you read the kickstarter news , oh nothing wild dont worry , it's good ol'jeff, burned out and risk averse.
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
9,931
What he plans is queen wish with a bit more options if you read the kickstarter news , oh nothing wild dont worry , it's good ol'jeff, burned out and risk averse.
Who knows maybe he will make a good game after a terribad start at making a new universe like he did with Avadon 2 coming off the bland Avadon 1.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
What he plans is queen wish with a bit more options if you read the kickstarter news , oh nothing wild dont worry , it's good ol'jeff, burned out and risk averse.
Who knows maybe he will make a good game after a terribad start at making a new universe like he did with Avadon 2 coming off the bland Avadon 1.
It will be good enough and entertaining, but it wil never be deeper than his first games.No evolution that way ever.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
12,859
I don't bother with Vogel KS. In fact... I don't bother with crpgs that aren't put up for sale. Only KS I go after are some books for pnp rpgs and pdfs.
 

Acrux

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Messages
1,489
How new? The newest Geneforge is pretty good, but that's built off of a really good base.

The Avernum remakes are average to above average. The Avadon games are less good.

I won't discuss Queen's Wish.
 

Serus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
6,680
Location
Small but great planet of Potatohole
I think he's depressed.
I'd also be depressed if I spent the last decade chucking out remakes of remakes that seem to usually only get worse with each iteration, but he's only got himself to blame for that.

He has become so risk-averse that he doesn't even try making something original at this point, he only relies on remakes and his new games are formulaic paint-by-numbers affairs that are a mere shadow of his earlier works.

I wager he doesn't get to do much fun stuff in his free time, either, but sticks with safe activities that don't pose any risk to his health and don't cost too much money to do.

He seems to have fallen into the trap of valuing safety and stability above everything else to the point that there's nothing exciting left in his life.
Jarl, it is called "age". Nothing more, nothing less. The pre-final boss of everything and everyone.
 

Moaning_Clock

SmokeSomeFrogs
Developer
Joined
Feb 7, 2021
Messages
655
Yeah, he looks a bit older. Always thought he's around 60. I wonder how long he will be working - maybe until he's actually 60? 2019 Queen's Wish, 2021 Geneforge, 2022 Queen's Wish 2, 2024 Geneforge 2, 2025 Queen's Wish 3 and then the rest of the Geneforge games. Did he say something about other games he wants to remake?

Although he's critized widely on the codex as a developer without flashy graphics he always gave me hope! Still impressed how long his studio has been going. +M
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
5,861
I wonder how long he will be working - maybe until he's actually 60?

IIRC, he said something wanting to make one more great original game series before hanging up his hat.

So.... if codex opinion is anything to go by, he'll be working for a while.

Although he's critized widely on the codex as a developer without flashy graphics he always gave me hope! Still impressed how long his studio has been going. +M

I think a lot of the criticism here is fair but still friendly. The general consensus seems to be that he doesn't take risks and will just keep remaking the same games to his core fanbase... which is probably all he needs for retirement.

As a dev, I agree that he's an inspiration. Vogel seems to be a pretty chill guy and he has a successful business model.

I just wish he'd stop using the same clipart aesthetic.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Dude is like 50 ppl. Wtf.

Spiderweb Software was founded in 1994, which is ~28 years ago. Dude was probably 22-25 when he started it. So he's probably around 50-53.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,997
Location
Platypus Planet
So.... if codex opinion is anything to go by, he'll be working for a while.

Didn't he say that Queen's Wish will be his last Original series?

This. I'm positive that Vogel posted his pipeline leading up to his retirement. To be honest there wasn't much to look forward to apart from the Geneforge remakes. Queen's Wish was going to be his last new original series and after that he was going to focus on remaking Geneforge and Avadon (lol).
 

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