Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
News Content Gallery About Donate Discord Contact
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Arcanum Journey to the center of Arcanum concept pitch

TimCain

Obsidian Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Messages
37
Location
Irvine, CA
Well, isn't this an interesting mystery?

Yes, Troika was working on a "Journey To The Center Of Arcanum" treatment, and yes, it was going to use the Source engine. But I checked my design doc archives, and this doc matches nothing I own or wrote. The time stamp looks right, but just because my name or Leon's is on it, just means it was probably written by someone at Troika. But we wrote many of these, usually to get something down to discuss with other people at work. I don't think this version was ever sent to any publisher. It's quite rough.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,193
This place is unreal.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
91,249
RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Well, isn't this an interesting mystery?

Yes, Troika was working on a "Journey To The Center Of Arcanum" treatment, and yes, it was going to use the Source engine. But I checked my design doc archives, and this doc matches nothing I own or wrote. The time stamp looks right, but just because my name or Leon's is on it, just means it was probably written by someone at Troika. But we wrote many of these, usually to get something down to discuss with other people at work. I don't think this version was ever sent to any publisher. It's quite rough.

Any chance you can ask other ex-Troika people about it?

Also, are you saying that Drog must be mistaken about the document's original source?
 

Somberlain

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
6,202
Location
Basement
Tim Cain may be Tim Cain but there's only one Master of Arcanum.
 

TimCain

Obsidian Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Messages
37
Location
Irvine, CA
Also, are you saying that Drog must be mistaken about the document's original source?

Not at all. What I am saying is that I cannot tell you who wrote this.

I have three or four treatments for JttCoA, and they are all different. One I remember writing, and it is full of game system ideas, for skills and attribute changes. Another is written from the basis of using the Tribes engine instead of Source. Neither of those went to publishers either. We just wrote them as a "what if?" scenario to toss around during design meetings. Drog's document looks like one of those. And if he got it from someone who said they got it from me, it must have been a long time ago. I have no such document in my archives, but I will admit my archives are not complete. I lost some files in a hard drive failure in 2004 or 2005.
 
Self-Ejected

Drog Black Tooth

Self-Ejected
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
2,636
TimCain

OK, Tim, here's how it went.

I made a contact with Russian fans a few months back, they're polishing their new fan translation of Arcanum and have incorporated my unofficial patch into it. The project leader PM'd me this file as a token of appreciation, I guess? He said that he pestered you many times over e-mail asking about the source code, original art assets and the like. And this document was the only thing he got from you. He wasn't going to make it public any time soon though, so I decided to go ahead and post in on the Codex, even though I agreed not to share it with anyone else. Because fuck hoarding.

So. Either it was a really clever setup by the Ruskies or you're shitting us. The document in question is obviously written by a native English speaker and seems genuine enough.
 

HanoverF

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2002
Messages
6,081
MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
BTW, how do we even know about Journey to the Center of Arcanum? A Google search doesn't reveal any obvious article where its existence was originally revealed. I take it was some forum chatter with the Troika devs?

I think it was from publicity interviews when Bloodlines was released or shortly after, why the switch to first person perspective and someone let slip that they had wanted to make a fp Journey to the center of Arcanum game.
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
Patron
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
15,048
Location
In quarantine
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I don't see why Tim would deny the document's authorship if he really is the one who wrote it (assuming he even remembers it). What kind of "damage control" could you be possibly talking about in this case?
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
Patron
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
15,048
Location
In quarantine
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I think it was from publicity interviews when Bloodlines was released or shortly after, why the switch to first person perspective and someone let slip that they had wanted to make a fp Journey to the center of Arcanum game.

Yeah, that's the source I recall from when I was preparing the Codex interview back in 2012, too.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
91,249
RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
TimCain

OK, Tim, here's how it went.

I made a contact with Russian fans a few months back, they're polishing their new fan translation of Arcanum and have incorporated my unofficial patch into it. The project leader PM'd me this file as a token of appreciation, I guess? He said that he pestered you many times over e-mail asking about the source code, original art assets and the like. And this document was the only thing he got from you. He wasn't going to make it public any time soon though, so I decided to go ahead and post in on the Codex, even though I agreed not to share it with anyone else. Because fuck hoarding.

So. Either it was a really clever setup by the Ruskies or you're shitting us. The document in question is obviously written by a native English speaker and seems genuine enough.

Does the project leader remember when he got the document? Maybe he has the email still archived? I guess it'd be hard to ask about that without revealing what you did. :P Reminds me of the stupid TTOEE editor situation.
 

dragonul09

Arcane
Edgy
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,434
TimCain

OK, Tim, here's how it went.

I made a contact with Russian fans a few months back, they're polishing their new fan translation of Arcanum and have incorporated my unofficial patch into it. The project leader PM'd me this file as a token of appreciation, I guess? He said that he pestered you many times over e-mail asking about the source code, original art assets and the like. And this document was the only thing he got from you. He wasn't going to make it public any time soon though, so I decided to go ahead and post in on the Codex, even though I agreed not to share it with anyone else. Because fuck hoarding.

So. Either it was a really clever setup by the Ruskies or you're shitting us. The document in question is obviously written by a native English speaker and seems genuine enough.

Such a state secret,better delete your post or KGB will be at your door..
Now seriosly why so much secrecy for such a minor little thing ?The company died years ago and this stuff will never see the light of the day again,so why stash it away like a fagg?

Damn russians and their pride:russia:
 
Self-Ejected

Drog Black Tooth

Self-Ejected
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
2,636
I don't see why Tim would deny the document's authorship if he really is the one who wrote it (assuming he even remembers it). What kind of "damage control" could you be possibly talking about in this case?
Well, the document in question is pretty naive. Like, imagine Half-Life with Arcanum's weapons and spells and these cool locations where you would kill these cool monsters. Bah, a bit low brow, if you ask me. Sounds more like Oblivion/Fallout 3 basically.
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
Patron
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
15,048
Location
In quarantine
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
That doesn't really sound like a plausible reason for damage control to me. So they might have tried to sell it to the publisher as a cool ARPG where you run around shooting these cool monster things; so what. It's just a pitch (for something that's supposed to sell, no less).

Any "immersive" first person RPG sounds like Oblivion/Fallout 3, if you adopt the reductionist standpoint. (Which I'm sure publishers share.)
 
Self-Ejected

Drog Black Tooth

Self-Ejected
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
2,636
Well, I'm out of ideas. Maybe Ol' Tim just suddenly got sensitive about Troika's internal documents or something.

This whole story just doesn't add up. We have this seemingly authentic piece of history, we have Tim Cain right here in this thread, yet he's giving vague responses and distancing himself from this document. Why won't he comment on the contents at least? Was any of that at least considered or is it just a random write-up by some of the interns? Then why was it typed on Tim/Leon's PCs, seeing that the document's bearing their signatures?
 

TimCain

Obsidian Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Messages
37
Location
Irvine, CA
Drog,

Aha, that helped me find it! Yes, I sent this to a Russian fan in 2011. I had trouble finding it then (and now), but I found my email to them, which led me back to the original document. I had trouble finding it because it was not under Troika Designs or Arcanum 2 folders, but under a subfolder of the original Arcanum.

So to clear things up...yes, this is a Troika doc on one possible treatment of JttCoA. I didn't write it, but I think I know who did. I never liked the "new metal which combines magick and tech" idea, because I thought it undermined the main motif of Arcanum, but the writer liked the idea, so he wrote it up for a design meeting. Teh doc was never intended to be sent to a publisher, just for us to read for a meeting, but I sent it to show the fan some of the ideas we were considering.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
91,249
RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
I didn't write it, but I think I know who did.

You probably don't want to say who, but it seems like he was an Ultima Underworld fan. Interesting that this comes out when the development of Underworld Ascendant is in full steam. Maybe I'll show it to the OtherSide guys as a curiousity.
 

Sam Ecorners

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
1,302
Location
Gallbladder of Western Civilization
And then people ask me what's so special about this place
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Top Bottom