Review Just admit it guys, Storm of Zehir sucks

[serch]

WTF are you talking about? How many old school RPGs have you bumping into a shitload of combat encounters? (wizardry anyone?) It is as it should. It just that the engine, while having other virtues, is shite for combat. Besides, my party leadered by a rogue only have the encounters it seeks. OMG my wizard can`t beat to pulp the wyvern with his staff and my fighter doesn't know how to avoid random encounters! is not a valid complain. Combat is bad and there's mainly one kind of encounters which, besides, can't be resolved by other means but combat, it is.

 

[Delirious Nomad]

Before teleporting to the swordcoast I had 2 or 3 unwanted encounters. The rest I was able to take or to avoid to my liking.
My finetuned 4 member cohortless party reached the swordcoast at level 10 without any serious grinding.
The leader is a rogue with two levels ranger to make survival a class skill and for the two weapon fighting feat plus some prestige levels in shadow dancer and shadow thief.
He has the feat able learner and covers all needed talking, travel and thief skills.

I'm really digging the fresh strategical approach including the stripped down towns,
dungeons and story ( it leaves something for your imagination ) , but I can see this game isn't made for the Planescape / MotB crowd.

 

[doctor_kaz]

NWN2 and its XPs could have been great if they hadn't used that shit NWN engine and made some other mistakes. It will go down as a big missed opportunity.

 

[Texas Red]

The chicken encounter made me go Roofles. Especially when the fighting music started and I ran up to a bunch of chickens.

The other funny part was with the elf cohort in the Keep. "I'm not a part of some stupid prophecy, am I?"

I remember once Gaider saying how difficult it was to implement all of the C&C in SoU with the goblins at the inn encounter. I think he stated that this apparent difficulty was the cause for so much hack n slash. Yet SoZ has such encounters on every corner and they are even more complex.

 

[SpaceKungFuMan]

Why haven't any of these reviews mentioned just how terrible most modern dungeons are. There is NO difficult dungeon crawl post wizardry that I can think of. While there may be some I haven't seen, the bottom line is that most modern dungeons are long boring places with no atmosphere, and a bunch of trash mobs before a boss fight. SoZ moved most of the boring trash fights to the OM and made them easy to avoid, allowing people who want to feel powerful to crush trash to their hearts content, without forcing that boring content on players. If SoZ's design has a fault, its that the dungeons themselves don't have anything worth while in them. Each dungeon should have a balanced party inside it to fight, with buffed mages, cheesey high str fb's, etc. That way, the one good part of modern dungeon design (the challenging boss fight) would be left in tact.

 

[racofer]

NWN2 and its XPs could have been great if they hadn't used that shit NWN engine and made some other mistakes. It will go down as a big missed opportunity.

Correction: had they used the real NWN engine it would be much more successful than it currently is. Same applies for the real NWN toolset, which is ten times better than that POS Obsidian released.

The game would require much less hardware while looking similarly (NWN2 looks like shit, specially given it's system requirements), would have a native linux version (since the NWN engine uses opengl) and would have a BROAD multiplayer community, like the original.

Obsidian fucked up royally, it's all their fault they messed this one up, so don't blame the NWN engine for the fuckups of shithole Obsidian.

 

[Oarfish]

Why do rpgs have to be epic? Most play better at low levels, especially D&D. They are right about the NWN engine not being suited to hardcore tactical combat though. The engagement distances are just too bloody short for decent tactics - everything is in your face within a round or so. IE games suffered from the same problem, the real time requirements and the fact combat takes place in areas the size of a garden shed gets old fast.

 

[Araanor]

SLAM DUNK!

 

[elander_]

D&D is going down the drain.

 

[Jaesun]

Whoever came up with the idea of incessantly throwing pointless combat into players face needs to be lined up against wall and shot. Twice.

You mean the overland map encounters? Just use hide or move silently. easy.

 

[ricolikesrice]

Whoever came up with the idea of making an exploration-focused cRPG without interesting locations to explore needs to be lined up against wall and shot. Twice.

fixed that. its not the lack of a good story, CnC, better combat ... nor is the random encounters (which luckily can be indeed easily avoided, but then again, why rave about the overland map when its only purpose is having skills to get you extra loot or avoiding loadscreens ? )

its that an exploration-focused cRPG needs interesting locations to explore.
thats why morrowind (and imho also fallout 3 ... ) were okay games despite shit combat, shit story, little CnC yada yada yada..

and in terms of locations, it cannot possibly get more copypasta generic than SoZ .... not even if we take Oblivion into the Consideration which i thought to be the king of blandness before SoZ.

especially annoying given the jungle would have had lots of potential for a great exploration focused cRPG but as it was implemented it doesnt really feel like jungle at all (oh wow, you get to fight dinosaurs and move a bit slower then on a street!!! )

meh, i still like leveling up my party and hunting loots, but to be honest, maybe i should rather give dungeon siege a chance ? its probably much better at that. (party-based hack n slash )

 

[mikaelis]

Ok guys. So I am getting (hopefully!) SoZ tomorrow. Can you advice me what kind of party I should create?
Bear in mind: I am not advanced guy in all those D&D stuff. Sure, I played most of the games, but never really digging to much into mechanics. What I need is:

1. Balanced party and not some experimental one.

2. As little encounters on the global map as possible (No OMG another kobold party!)

3. Referring to the first point: rather easy playthrough (I don't want to seat for 3 hours figuring out how to approach a battle, being fucked gazillions times before). I mean I don't have that much time, though it could have been fun under different circumstances.

I guess I should have a ranger to fulfill point 2. Or rogue. Or monk (is it possible to have a monk covering all those Sneak/Hide/Listen abilities? - would be really cool). Then some fighter, wizard and cleric. I would personally go for a monk as a lead character and eventually pick up a ranger in the first town as a fifth cohort.

Also, what about rogues? Can I play enjoyable without any? I mean all this lockpicking, trapfinding stuff. Is it that important? (Or in other words, can I afford not having the rogue without missing some extra fun?)

Please DO elaborate!! Otherwise I will start a new thread spamming the forum all around... :twisted:

 

[MetalCraze]

SoZ was my most awaited game of 2008 and when I finally understood that it is even worse than Mass Effect, not speaking about Fallout 3...
Goddamnit, SoZ is such a bland piece of shit.

 

[mikaelis]

SoZ was my most awaited game of 2008 and when I finally understood that it is even worse than Mass Effect, not speaking about Fallout 3...
Goddamnit, SoZ is such a bland piece of shit.

Damn skyway! I need some hype!!! I have already ordered it!!! :D .

But seriously, your complaints are not discouraging me at this time. I am not looking for the qualities you are whinning about right now not being delivered. Surely, I would appreciate them if I concidered SoZ something similar to MotB!! But it is not and it was never meant to be!! And I am taking SoZ for what it is and I want to get as much out of it as possible.

That said: No deep story with great C&C, but rather free-roaming old-school game. Plus nice overland map system with the emphasis to avoid the meaningless combat out there (or rather to choose it whenever I like it).

 

[Rhalle]

Ranger or Rogue main is the best party leader, simply because you won't have to worry about switching leaders when zoning.

You don't need either one, but Ranger is most helpful for overland speed and encounter avoidance; and if you don't have someone with lockpick or trapfinding you will miss a little loot and take some more damage.

It should also be noted that different classes will find different stuff on the Overland Map, so if you run your Ranger on point at all times you will miss items.

Some sort of healer is useful as well, but not necessary.

AOE spellcaster is most definitley useful, since overland mobs come in huge packs, and dungeon ones are also often huge packs.

Personally I don't think SoZ sucks, but the lack of total scope is disappointing because much else of it is really fun and engaging.

The little dungeons and encounters in SoZ have more atmosphere than full-fledged ones found in other games; and that's why it's such a letdown that they aren't larger.

 

[mikaelis]

Thanks Rhalle!!

Most is answered. But still. Somebody mentoned monk being able to have all those overland map attributes handled pretty neatly. Is it true?

 

[Volourn]

"It just that the engine, while having other virtues, is shite for combat."

No, the combat engine is awesome. SOZ's combat encounter design is horrid. Some of the worst, if not worst combat design EVAR!

 

[Crichton]

I guess I should have a ranger to fulfill point 2. Or rogue. Or monk (is it possible to have a monk covering all those Sneak/Hide/Listen abilities? - would be really cool)

I'm using a party of holy dwarves (paladin, cleric, favored soul, monk) with the monk as the party's scout. He's got hide, move silently,spot, listen and tumble, but he doesn't have survival, so he's not completely optimal, whatever.

My party is level 9 on the sword coast and some of the "monstrous bands" can chew it up pretty badly. Maybe more offensive magic would help with that.

So far SoZ is holding my attention pretty nicely, the only other game I've touched since I installed it is MTW2 with the Stainless Steel mod.

 

[MetalCraze]

Damn skyway! I need some hype!!! I have already ordered it!!! :D .

Just go into denial after you'll realize how much PoS design choices the game has and it will be the full list.

Surely, I would appreciate them if I concidered SoZ something similar to MotB!! But it is not and it was never meant to be!!

Well I've considered SoZ to be an old school dungeon crawl with awesome dungeons, well-designed random encounters that aren't just about combat and of course good story - because no matter what direction RPG takes it still can have good story.
Obviously SoZ is not any of the above and was never meant to be.

And I am taking SoZ for what it is and I want to get as much out of it as possible.

In that case you will be disappointed. You must want to get as less out of it as possible because 2 room dungeons, crappy combat encounters and terrible bland nearly non-existent storyline aren't usual attributes of a game that is not a piece of shit.

That said: No deep story with great C&C, but rather free-roaming old-school game.

If by free-roaming old-school game you mean running around on the empty map, visiting small caves and villages with one street and picking up the loot that is even more useless than level scaled trash of Oblivion - then you must play more games.

 

[ricolikesrice]

...

having a monk as partyleader too. human with 14 int and able learner feat he can cover all the overland map necessary skills. survival and search not being class skills hurts but for search you can easily boost that with items (+8 from watchmans helm in samargol bazaar) and survival..... afaik its only for movement speed on the overland map (and some "get extra loots to sell if you pass this skillcheck" random encounters) and monks have great movement speed anyhow. i havent been forced into any random encounter yet with him as leader but mind you basically have to fight some of them from time to time to keep up in levels (since you get 400-500 xp bonus for beating a totally trivial random encounter )

SoZ is keeping me busy too but not really enjoying it. i m a sucker for managing my own party and since that made me play through "The Fall - Last Days of Gaaaaaaaya" its also doing it for SoZ. other than i m feeling like playing oblivion except in iso. freaking generic & soulless.

the good thing is that i m really motivated to play a proper oldschool exploration game, namely RoA: Blade of Destiny and RoA: Star Trail after i m done with SoZ.

playing good stuff after shit stuff makes the good stuff even more fun. and it ll hopefully great to see what the modders can do with SoZ (then again, there dont appear to be many quality modders for NWN2 left sadly.... )

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Hey, what's going on. I thought only I hated Obsidian RPGs.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Skyway, why is lack of story a problem for you?

How do you enjoy strategy games like this then? Or old shooters?

"Terribly bland non existent storylines" is a feature of a game like Jagged Alliance, for example. Would you really say that it works against the game?

 

[MetalCraze]

Skyway, why is lack of story a problem for you?

Because when it comes to SoZ or other poorly made games you need at least something to move you forward - a motivation. I don't have it in SoZ. There is nothing that makes me want to continue playing - and storyline could've been of a great help there.

How do you enjoy strategy games like this then? Or old shooters?

Because strategy games may have dynamic combat, good tactics and possibilities - even old shooters can have that. They have just about enough stuff to make you forget about the poor storyline. 'Fun' is not something SoZ has. Combat is boring, economy is imbalanced and primitive, there is no need to explore the world because it is always the same and boring.

"Terribly bland non existent storylines" is a feature of a game like Jagged Alliance, for example. Would you really say that it works against the game?

No. Because JA is much more better at what it does than SoZ with its poor realization of every single feature of it. JA is a game, while SoZ is more like a toolset for talented modders (and NWN games have no talented modders - so SoZ is doomed).

 

[AlanC9]

Correction: had they used the real NWN engine it would be much more successful than it currently is. Same applies for the real NWN toolset, which is ten times better than that POS Obsidian released.

You actually liked having everything look the same? The tilesets worked for you? Seriously?

 

[racofer]

Graphix whore much?