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Just Finished Chrono Trigger

Gastrick

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You listed better games, sure, but I think he wanted "games that did what FF6 did, but better" and not just "games that are better than FF6". They are not the same. Now, if you are going to list games better than FF6 and CT, I believe he wanted SNES only.

The same answer is still in there tho. Almost all the other Final Fantasy games for starters, and all the SNES games which I list.

The SNES' JRPGs are HUGELY overrated anyway. Most are a real chore to play now because of excessive, simplistic random battles and clichéd stories. It's a bit sad that so many see that as the systems' main strength.
True, eh. There's a few exceptions like Live-a-Live and shin megami tensei, but snes RPGs sucked. The top 3 most-popular games, CT, FFVI and Earthbound range from bad to decent. You can't have a good combat system if it is overly-simplistic and you can barely customize your party or party-members. Every game with random battles on snes overdid them. With the artwork, it's done in a poor horizontal-vertical look that doesn't hold up as well compared to the isometric viewpoint. The sprites are also all really low-res and ugly-looking. With the stories they also boring and forgettable.

Compared to other games on the snes like zelda and metroid they don't hold up well. PS1 brought jrpg incline when it was released.
 

Ash

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What did you expect from Facebook?

Very true, and very naïve of me.

But I did expect there to be more balance. Yes I totally expected some of the deeper games such as PST and Fallout 1 & 2 to get overlooked, but I purposely put some more mainstream games in there so that the fucking stupid cunts could redeem themselves on those. Witcher 3, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Persona 5, Mass Effect etc. I wouldn't have any of them as particularly great stories, but they're all light-years ahead of fucking FF6 and Chrono Trigger. It takes very little to appease the tards. They're the types who thought Attack of The Clones was amazing because of Yoda's fight scene with Dooku.


Wait wait wait, by what metric here? Just because Deus Ex: Human Revolution or Mass Effect has more mature themes and intelligent writing (lol...relative to) doesn't mean they have better stories than FF6/CT. Mass Effect is complete trash overall I won't waste another second talking about it. DX:HR it's all one-note transhumanism stuff yeah it's interesting and thought-provoking enough, but is it exciting? Tear-jerking? Feel-good? Humorous? Because that's what FF6 and CT are. Meanwhile DX:HR and Mass Effect exude a tone of banality and inspire little in the player (well, speaking for myself here).
Now if we're talking Deus Ex 1's story I would understand the elitism you display, but DX:HR or Mass Effect? They're throwaway stories c'mon dude.

Damn you for getting me to defend CT.
 

Lord of Riva

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Lufia 1 had one hell of an opening track:

and

I liked it, btw. It's raw JRPG, it clicks every box on how to make a basic JRPG, but I still liked it. But Lufia 2 was something else. What a game.


I have never played this through, it's way to rough and so fucking many random encounters. It was a good decision for them to put 2 chronologically before 1.
 

flyingjohn

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People who praise human revolution in any way deserve to be crushed by a vending machine.
 

Ash

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It's p. mediocre yet still waaaay better than Mass Effect. Outside of sad virgin fucks and degenerates into Alien porn, I have no idea what anyone ever saw in that game. It's mediocre in everything it does, gameplay especially but the story is rather bland also. There are zero high points, no climaxes, no wonder or amazement, no shock factor, no humor, no...it's like it was designed & written by robots or soulless vessels.
 

Falksi

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What did you expect from Facebook?

Very true, and very naïve of me.

But I did expect there to be more balance. Yes I totally expected some of the deeper games such as PST and Fallout 1 & 2 to get overlooked, but I purposely put some more mainstream games in there so that the fucking stupid cunts could redeem themselves on those. Witcher 3, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Persona 5, Mass Effect etc. I wouldn't have any of them as particularly great stories, but they're all light-years ahead of fucking FF6 and Chrono Trigger. It takes very little to appease the tards. They're the types who thought Attack of The Clones was amazing because of Yoda's fight scene with Dooku.


Wait wait wait, by what metric here? Just because Deus Ex: Human Revolution or Mass Effect has more mature themes and intelligent writing (lol...relative to) doesn't mean they have better stories than FF6/CT. Mass Effect is complete trash overall I won't waste another second talking about it. DX:HR it's all one-note transhumanism stuff yeah it's interesting and thought-provoking enough, but is it exciting? Tear-jerking? Feel-good? Humorous? Because that's what FF6 and CT are. Meanwhile DX:HR and Mass Effect exude a tone of banality and inspire little in the player (well, speaking for myself here).
Now if we're talking Deus Ex 1's story I would understand the elitism you display, but DX:HR or Mass Effect? They're throwaway stories c'mon dude.

Damn you for getting me to defend CT.

I don't think DE:HR or Mass Effect have particularly great stories either, I put them in there because load of normies think they are. But I do think they're more interesting and thorough than FF6 & CT. You make a fair point about the emotional side of it, they don't compete there, but then again if that's what people like then why were all those people voting for FF6 & CT over FFX? FFX smashes FF6 & CT when it comes to pulling on the heart strings with it's themes of love, loss, family and "abuse". Lost Odyssey & possibly FF7 do too.

And then when they totally ignore games like Planetscape Torment (which I don''t particularly enjoy playing, but do recognize the undisputed quality of it's story), and Phantasy Star 4 it cements their opinions as bollocks. Phantasy Star 4's Alys story struck me way more than anything FF6 or CT did, yet it gets ONE vote against FF6 68 votes. PS4 had the vibe, it had the music, it had the charm, and it had the emotional moments, yet it gets totally ignored. There's absolutely no balance there, just a bunch of vaxed up tards liking what they're programmed to because everyone else does.
 

Ash

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But I do think they're more interesting and thorough than FF6 & CT. You make a fair point about the emotional side of it, they don't compete there, but then again if that's what people like then why were all those people voting for FF6 & CT over FFX? FFX smashes FF6 & CT when it comes to pulling on the heart strings with it's themes of love, loss, family and "abuse". Lost Odyssey & possibly FF7 do too..

Not just tear-jerking, but sense of adventure, excitement, humour, heroism...FF6 has a lot of this. I also vastly prefer FF6 story to FFX's.
 

Falksi

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But I do think they're more interesting and thorough than FF6 & CT. You make a fair point about the emotional side of it, they don't compete there, but then again if that's what people like then why were all those people voting for FF6 & CT over FFX? FFX smashes FF6 & CT when it comes to pulling on the heart strings with it's themes of love, loss, family and "abuse". Lost Odyssey & possibly FF7 do too..

Not just tear-jerking, but sense of adventure, excitement, humour, heroism...FF6 has a lot of this. I also vastly prefer FF6 story to FFX's.

Ugggh. Not me. But either way, the balance with the group is still off. FF6's story isn't 68 times better than PS4's. That's just pure retardation in effect, and if you tell those people to give PS4, Planetscape Torment, or similar a try they're totally closed off to the idea.

Everyone has personal preferences. But those who don't recognize that's what it is and who hail the the likes of FF6 & CT as "untouchable" are a blight on gaming. They're the same fuckwits who have influenced every dev trying to cram open world gaming into every RPG since 2011 and Skyrim's release, and if you look down the comments it tends to be "I LOVE FF6....I WANT A REMAKE!!" If they loved it that much, they really wouldn't.
 
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Lord of Riva

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Kingmaker
But I do think they're more interesting and thorough than FF6 & CT. You make a fair point about the emotional side of it, they don't compete there, but then again if that's what people like then why were all those people voting for FF6 & CT over FFX? FFX smashes FF6 & CT when it comes to pulling on the heart strings with it's themes of love, loss, family and "abuse". Lost Odyssey & possibly FF7 do too..

Not just tear-jerking, but sense of adventure, excitement, humour, heroism...FF6 has a lot of this. I also vastly prefer FF6 story to FFX's.

Ugggh. Not me. But either way, the balance with the group is still off. FF6's story isn't 68 times better than PS4's. That's just pure retardation in effect, and if you tell those people to give PS4, Planetscape Torment, or similar a try they're totally closed off to the idea.

Everyone has personal preferences. But those who don't recognize that's what it is and who hail the the likes of FF6 & CT as "untouchable" are a blight on gaming. They're the same fuckwits who have influenced every dev trying to cram open world gaming into every RPG since 2011 and Skyrim's release, and if you look down the comments it tends to be "I LOVE FF6....I WANT A REMAKE!!" If they loved it that much, they really wouldn't.

Hrm, i have only played the first PS and it did not strike me as anything special. Phantasy Star is just not known enough to be considered in talks like this, maybe that is unjust because it's great but it's just not that widespread. (EDIT: from what I can tell)

I can sympathise with that to some extent, I think "Der Langrisser" is one of the best games made (if you accept it's age) and most people outside a very specific crowd just look at me funny when I name the game, it does not help that "Der langrisser" is semi-wrong german but I digress.

However I fail to see how you can claim what you do: From what I can see it is not games like PST or FF6 that are always emulated apart from rare occasions (I really like DQ XI for example because it does stay in it's lane).

It is the teen-Angst drama games that are prevalent starting with FF8 to this day that are made so I can understand why people want to have remakes of the things they like. Not that I think thats necessarily a great development I like new things with classic mechanics but that is another topic all together.

It is the "the old stuff is outdated" crowd that result in games being the same all the time, not those that rightly point to the classics. Because Turn-based is only a thing because of technical limitations or 2D Pixel Art is shit etc.

I do agree however that there is nothing wrong with playing those originals on their console (or when not available, per emulator) so I am not a fan of remakes, even if some of them may be just necessary due to accessibility reasons, some old UI for example is barely usable.
 
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Falksi

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But I do think they're more interesting and thorough than FF6 & CT. You make a fair point about the emotional side of it, they don't compete there, but then again if that's what people like then why were all those people voting for FF6 & CT over FFX? FFX smashes FF6 & CT when it comes to pulling on the heart strings with it's themes of love, loss, family and "abuse". Lost Odyssey & possibly FF7 do too..

Not just tear-jerking, but sense of adventure, excitement, humour, heroism...FF6 has a lot of this. I also vastly prefer FF6 story to FFX's.

Ugggh. Not me. But either way, the balance with the group is still off. FF6's story isn't 68 times better than PS4's. That's just pure retardation in effect, and if you tell those people to give PS4, Planetscape Torment, or similar a try they're totally closed off to the idea.

Everyone has personal preferences. But those who don't recognize that's what it is and who hail the the likes of FF6 & CT as "untouchable" are a blight on gaming. They're the same fuckwits who have influenced every dev trying to cram open world gaming into every RPG since 2011 and Skyrim's release, and if you look down the comments it tends to be "I LOVE FF6....I WANT A REMAKE!!" If they loved it that much, they really wouldn't.

Hrm, i have only played the first PS and it did not strike me as anything special. Phantasy Star is just not known enough to be considered in talks like this, maybe that is unjust because it's great but it's just not that widespread. (EDIT: from what I can tell)

I can sympathise with that to some extent, I think "Der Langrisser" is one of the best games made (if you accept it's age) and most people outside a very specific crowd just look at me funny when I name the game, it does not help that "Der langrisser" is semi-wrong german but I digress.

However I fail to see how you can claim what you do: From what I can see it is not games like PST or FF6 that are always emulated apart from rare occasions (I really like DQ XI for example because it does stay in it's lane).

It is the teen-Angst drama games that are prevalent starting with FF8 to this day that are made so I can understand why people want to have remakes of the things they like. Not that I think thats necessarily a great development I like new things with classic mechanics but that is another topic all together.

It is the "the old stuff is outdated" crowd that result in games being the same all the time, not those that rightly point to the classics. Because Turn-based is only a thing because of technical limitations or 2D Pixel Art is shit etc.

I do agree however that there is nothing wrong with playing those originals on their console (or when not available, per emulator) so I am not a fan of remakes, even if some of them may be just necessary due to accessibility reasons, some old UI for example is barely usable.

The leap between PS1 & PS4 is huge mate. I'm not keen on the linear & grindy nature of PS4 but it's story and the excellent cut-scenes which tell it are easily up there with FF6 & CT for me. If you're talking tear-jerking moments, heroism, meeting ancient cyborgs and generations, travelling to different planets and spacestations etc. PS4 is just bang on. Personally I much prefer that story to FF6 or Chrono Trigger. It has CT's adventure but more emotional weight, and it has FF6's emotional weight but more adventure and style. Plus PS4's combat is actually a challenge at certain points and better paced tan both games, unlike CT's which saves any challenge for the final few hours, and bogs massive parts of the game down with unengaging combat.

Good shout with Der Langrisser. I recently replayed it and, even with it's age and flaws, couldn't put it down.

Regards the remakes it's a consumerism thing which doesn't recognize the reality of what ultimately ends up being released. I've yet to play any remake or revamp which comes close to the original. You can apply that to films too such as Total Recall & Nightmare on Elm Street. But these fuckwits don't seem to notice that most (but of course not all) remakes and rehashes, are shite. They just continuously crave more of the same experience. And they did the same with Open World gaming after playing Skyrim, which is why we've had 10 years of potentially good games being butchered with devs trying to cram open worlds into gaming at every opportunity.
 
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Grimlorn

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You listed better games, sure, but I think he wanted "games that did what FF6 did, but better" and not just "games that are better than FF6". They are not the same. Now, if you are going to list games better than FF6 and CT, I believe he wanted SNES only.

The same answer is still in there tho. Almost all the other Final Fantasy games for starters, and all the SNES games which I list.

The SNES' JRPGs are HUGELY overrated anyway. Most are a real chore to play now because of excessive, simplistic random battles and clichéd stories. It's a bit sad that so many see that as the systems' main strength.
Compared to other games on the snes like zelda and metroid they don't hold up well. PS1 brought jrpg incline when it was released.
You mean like with FF8 and it's retarded time travelling shenanigans, or FF9 with it's retarded planet within a planet and recycling souls plotline.
Or Chrono Cross
Where it turns out Lavos merged with Schala and Dalton somehow traveled to before 1000 AD and raised an army and wiped out Guardia.
Yeah PS1 sure did bring the incline to story telling, while keeping the same active time turn based combat. But at least it's not as pixelated and therefore ugly as on the SNES. Am I right? Jesus Christ.

And Zelda is just as easy combat wise with few customization options as the RPGs you're criticizing. Metroid as well has quite a few options, but it's still similar in customization to a RPG where you can customize what gear, magic and physical techniques you use. I don't really understand what you're trying to say, it appears you're delusional about the options in a RPG compared to an action/adventure game.
 

Grimlorn

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And then when they totally ignore games like Planetscape Torment (which I don''t particularly enjoy playing, but do recognize the undisputed quality of it's story), and Phantasy Star 4 it cements their opinions as bollocks. Phantasy Star 4's Alys story struck me way more than anything FF6 or CT did, yet it gets ONE vote against FF6 68 votes. PS4 had the vibe, it had the music, it had the charm, and it had the emotional moments, yet it gets totally ignored. There's absolutely no balance there, just a bunch of vaxed up tards liking what they're programmed to because everyone else does.
You asked a bunch of people who only played consoles what their favorite games are. They haven't played PC games or PST so of course they won't vote it. It's due to ignorance not them thinking their favorite console RPG is superior. Sega Genesis I don't think was very popular in the West or maybe that was just me. I never got to play the Phantasy Star series because I only had a NES or SNES which is what most kids my age had.
 

Viata

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It was a good decision for them to put 2 chronologically before 1
Not really. If you play 2 first, you can't play 1 anymore. It's impossible because 2 did everything right and so good you can ignore 1 after playing it. The second game was probably made because they decided it would be cool to have a story of the first party that saved the world.
 

Falksi

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And then when they totally ignore games like Planetscape Torment (which I don''t particularly enjoy playing, but do recognize the undisputed quality of it's story), and Phantasy Star 4 it cements their opinions as bollocks. Phantasy Star 4's Alys story struck me way more than anything FF6 or CT did, yet it gets ONE vote against FF6 68 votes. PS4 had the vibe, it had the music, it had the charm, and it had the emotional moments, yet it gets totally ignored. There's absolutely no balance there, just a bunch of vaxed up tards liking what they're programmed to because everyone else does.
You asked a bunch of people who only played consoles what their favorite games are. They haven't played PC games or PST so of course they won't vote it. It's due to ignorance not them thinking their favorite console RPG is superior. Sega Genesis I don't think was very popular in the West or maybe that was just me. I never got to play the Phantasy Star series because I only had a NES or SNES which is what most kids my age had.

Exactly. It's due to their ignorance. It's a fucking disease and they want putting out of their misery, instead of us enduring them trying to whitewash the world with bullshit opinions that the handful of games which they have played are the best ever.

It's not the fact they like these games, it's the fact that they promote these games as the best thing ever, totally oblivious to the fact that there's a ton of games out there, even on the same fucking system, that do a lot of things as good if not better.

It's just sheer ignorance, as you say.
 

Grimlorn

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Sega Genesis I don't think was very popular in the West or maybe that was just me.
I believe it was famous in Europe, but I may be wrong here. It was quite famous in Brazil, though. Everyone I knew had a Mega Drive and a SNES, myself included.
Yeah I should have said America not West. I don't know the exact numbers of consoles sold or if the Sega had a lot of RPGs at all, I just don't recall a lot of kids talking about the Sega as a kid, or Sonic. I think I knew one kid briefly that had a Genesis that I played with once. That was it. I was actually kind of surprised there was such a strong Sonic fanbase on the internet as well. I don't think you see this shit with Mario.
 

Gastrick

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You listed better games, sure, but I think he wanted "games that did what FF6 did, but better" and not just "games that are better than FF6". They are not the same. Now, if you are going to list games better than FF6 and CT, I believe he wanted SNES only.

The same answer is still in there tho. Almost all the other Final Fantasy games for starters, and all the SNES games which I list.

The SNES' JRPGs are HUGELY overrated anyway. Most are a real chore to play now because of excessive, simplistic random battles and clichéd stories. It's a bit sad that so many see that as the systems' main strength.
Compared to other games on the snes like zelda and metroid they don't hold up well. PS1 brought jrpg incline when it was released.
You mean like with FF8 and it's retarded time travelling shenanigans, or FF9 with it's retarded planet within a planet and recycling souls plotline.
Or Chrono Cross
Where it turns out Lavos merged with Schala and Dalton somehow traveled to before 1000 AD and raised an army and wiped out Guardia.
Yeah PS1 sure did bring the incline to story telling, while keeping the same active time turn based combat. But at least it's not as pixelated and therefore ugly as on the SNES. Am I right? Jesus Christ.

And Zelda is just as easy combat wise with few customization options as the RPGs you're criticizing. Metroid as well has quite a few options, but it's still similar in customization to a RPG where you can customize what gear, magic and physical techniques you use. I don't really understand what you're trying to say, it appears you're delusional about the options in a RPG compared to an action/adventure game.
Yeah, even the worst PS1 RPG is better than any of those 3 games (I have yet to play Chrono Cross). This is the system library. LTTP and Super Metroid are much less linear and more maze-like than the RPGs on snes. They also have good action gameplay to them and aren't relying on how good their mechanics or story are. The progression with suit upgrade is fun in those games if simple. These are also action-adventure games, so they aren't trying to be RPGs.

Can't respond for a while to posts.
 
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Gastrick

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I was actually kind of surprised there was such a strong Sonic fanbase on the internet as well
That is the weird part. The most famous Sonic fan is american(Chris-Chan) and a lot of the sonic fans are americans, yet Mega Drive was not that big in USA as far as I have read.
It's because the fanbase comes from the Sonic Adventure games that were re-released on Gamecube and the Sonic X cartoon. Most of them never had genesis or snes.
 

Grimlorn

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Yeah, even the worst PS1 RPG is better than any of those 3 games (I have yet to play Chrono Cross). This is the system library. LTTP and Super Metroid are much less linear and more maze-like than the RPGs on snes. They also have good action gameplay to them and aren't relying on how good their mechanics or story are. The progression with suit upgrade is fun in those games if simple. These are also action-adventure games, so they aren't trying to be RPGs.

Can't respond for a while to posts.
You originally said
You can't have a good combat system if it is overly-simplistic and you can barely customize your party or party-members.
You then went on to compare FF6 and CT to Zelda and Super Metroid implying that the latter games had more customization and were better because of it which just isn't true. I point out that you have all these customization options, plus multiple party members and options for combat and now you're shifting to they were less linear. Which is again not close to true.

Super Metroid is essentially just a dungeon crawler and you are limited by which power ups you find for your suit in which directions you can go in and what parts of the dungeon they unlock. But comparing a dungeon crawler to an open world game in what is linear is insane anyways. It would be like me saying Wizardry was less linear because you had all these directions in the maze you could go in and even Malor to teleport around. It's nonsense. You still have to complete certain parts of the game one at a time or in Wizardry's case go down each floor in a linear fashion. And since we're on the subject of Wizardry, why not call it shit as well for having ugly pixels as well. Since pixelation seems to be an important factor in judging whether a game is good or not to you.

LTTP has a bit more freedom with an overworld map and you can do certain dungeons out of order, but it ends the same way every time. You have to complete each dungeon every time. Games like FF6 or CT end differently depending on what quests you decide to do or skip, what party members you recruit, and there are a lot of options that change the outcome. This is especially true with CT and it's multiple endings. FF6 ends much the same way but IIRC you have a lot of freedom on what you do in WoR and who you take with you to the final dungeon. There is also customizing building your characters stats up through Espers. You can objectively count all the various options and compare them to action games like LTTP and Metroid and have more on the RPGs side of things.

And the only reason I brought up games like FF7-9 or Chrono Cross was because they were popular and had the same turn based combat as RPGs on the SNES and were Squaresoft games. The only difference in those games is the graphics, stories and characters, but the stories are absurd and characters bland in a lot of cases. You tend to get fewer customization options when it comes to gear or what different characters can do. So if the PS1 really brought the incline and created better RPGs than all of the SNES ones or the PS1 ones I mentioned you should post titles instead of making sweeping statements that are untrue.
 
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Gastrick

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You then went on to compare FF6 and CT to Zelda and Super Metroid implying that the latter games had more customization and were better because of it which just isn't true. I point out that you have all these customization options, plus multiple party members and options for combat and now you're shifting to they were less linear. Which is again not close to true.

Super Metroid is essentially just a dungeon crawler and you are limited by which power ups you find for your suit in which directions you can go in and what parts of the dungeon they unlock. But comparing a dungeon crawler to an open world game in what is linear is insane anyways. It would be like me saying Wizardry was less linear because you had all these directions in the maze you could go in and even Malor to teleport around. It's nonsense. You still have to complete certain parts of the game one at a time or in Wizardry's case go down each floor in a linear fashion. And since we're on the subject of Wizardry, why not call it shit as well for having ugly pixels as well. Since pixelation seems to be an important factor in judging whether a game is good or not to you.

LTTP has a bit more freedom with an overworld map and you can do certain dungeons out of order, but it ends the same way every time. You have to complete each dungeon every time. Games like FF6 or CT end differently depending on what quests you decide to do or skip, what party members you recruit, and there are a lot of options that change the outcome. This is especially true with CT and it's multiple endings. FF6 ends much the same way but IIRC you have a lot of freedom on what you do in WoR and who you take with you to the final dungeon. There is also customizing building your characters stats up through Espers. You can objectively count all the various options and compare them to action games like LTTP and Metroid and have more on the RPGs side of things.

And the only reason I brought up games like FF7-9 or Chrono Cross was because they were popular and had the same turn based combat as RPGs on the SNES and were Squaresoft games. The only difference in those games is the graphics, stories and characters, but the stories are absurd and characters bland in a lot of cases. You tend to get fewer customization options when it comes to gear or what different characters can do. So if the PS1 really brought the incline and created better RPGs than all of the SNES ones or the PS1 ones I mentioned you should post titles instead of making sweeping statements that are untrue.

In case you really think that wizardry and metroid are linear. https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/3776/what-does-it-mean-for-a-game-to-be-linear
FF6 ends much the same way but IIRC you have a lot of freedom on what you do in WoR and who you take with you to the final dungeon.
Being able to choose different characters to bring has nothing to do with linearity.
And the only reason I brought up games like FF7-9 or Chrono Cross was because they were popular and had the same turn based combat as RPGs on the SNES and were Squaresoft games. The only difference in those games is the graphics, stories and characters,
FF7 has the materia system, and FF8 has the card system. Both of which give more customization and are more complex than FF6.
but the stories are absurd
That's part of the charm of JRPGs that the stories can go anywhere.
So if the PS1 really brought the incline and created better RPGs than all of the SNES ones or the PS1 ones I mentioned you should post titles instead of making sweeping statements that are untrue.
In the link I posted earlier there were a lot of more strategical and complex games in it. https://www.listchallenges.com/the-ultimate-playstation-rpg-list Missing is the King's Field games and DQ7. Vagrant Story should be the best example of the PS1 experimenting with new and more complex gameplay styles.
And since we're on the subject of Wizardry, why not call it shit as well for having ugly pixels as well.
Thanks to being a dungeon crawler, the sprites are larger and look better in Wizardry. For the very early games, I don't think games from 1982 need to look great.
 
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Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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Sega Genesis I don't think was very popular in the West or maybe that was just me.
I believe it was famous in Europe, but I may be wrong here. It was quite famous in Brazil, though. Everyone I knew had a Mega Drive and a SNES, myself included.
Yeah I should have said America not West. I don't know the exact numbers of consoles sold or if the Sega had a lot of RPGs at all, I just don't recall a lot of kids talking about the Sega as a kid, or Sonic. I think I knew one kid briefly that had a Genesis that I played with once. That was it. I was actually kind of surprised there was such a strong Sonic fanbase on the internet as well. I don't think you see this shit with Mario.
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Nintendo with its Super Famicom / SNES managed to edge out Sega's Megadrive/Genesis globally thanks to crushing Sega in Japan, but Sega outsold Nintendo nearly everywhere else, typically by small margins.
 

mogwaimon

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You then went on to compare FF6 and CT to Zelda and Super Metroid implying that the latter games had more customization and were better because of it which just isn't true. I point out that you have all these customization options, plus multiple party members and options for combat and now you're shifting to they were less linear. Which is again not close to true.

Super Metroid is essentially just a dungeon crawler and you are limited by which power ups you find for your suit in which directions you can go in and what parts of the dungeon they unlock. But comparing a dungeon crawler to an open world game in what is linear is insane anyways. It would be like me saying Wizardry was less linear because you had all these directions in the maze you could go in and even Malor to teleport around. It's nonsense. You still have to complete certain parts of the game one at a time or in Wizardry's case go down each floor in a linear fashion. And since we're on the subject of Wizardry, why not call it shit as well for having ugly pixels as well. Since pixelation seems to be an important factor in judging whether a game is good or not to you.

LTTP has a bit more freedom with an overworld map and you can do certain dungeons out of order, but it ends the same way every time. You have to complete each dungeon every time. Games like FF6 or CT end differently depending on what quests you decide to do or skip, what party members you recruit, and there are a lot of options that change the outcome. This is especially true with CT and it's multiple endings. FF6 ends much the same way but IIRC you have a lot of freedom on what you do in WoR and who you take with you to the final dungeon. There is also customizing building your characters stats up through Espers. You can objectively count all the various options and compare them to action games like LTTP and Metroid and have more on the RPGs side of things.

And the only reason I brought up games like FF7-9 or Chrono Cross was because they were popular and had the same turn based combat as RPGs on the SNES and were Squaresoft games. The only difference in those games is the graphics, stories and characters, but the stories are absurd and characters bland in a lot of cases. You tend to get fewer customization options when it comes to gear or what different characters can do. So if the PS1 really brought the incline and created better RPGs than all of the SNES ones or the PS1 ones I mentioned you should post titles instead of making sweeping statements that are untrue.

Yeah, it is less linear. https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/3776/what-does-it-mean-for-a-game-to-be-linear

So if it ends the same way and the only choice is who you bring, that's doesn't make it unlinear in any way.

FF7 has the materia system, and FF8 has the card system. Both of which give more customization and are more complex than FF6.

That's part of the charm of JRPGs that the stories can go anywhere.

In the link I posted earlier there were a lot of more strategical and complex games in it. https://www.listchallenges.com/the-ultimate-playstation-rpg-list

Thanks to being a dungeon crawler, the sprites are larger and look better in Wizardry. For the very early games, I don't think games from 1982 need to look great.

if I may, what are you even arguing here? maybe I missed something, but Grimlorn is spot-on in his thesis in my opinion. I don't understand how FF7 and FF8's mechanics have any bearing on whether FF6 is linear or not? I don't understand how 'if it ends the same way and the only choice is who you bring, that doesn't make it unlinear in any way' improves your case that Zelda and Super Metroid are less linear than FF6 and CT when all but CT have just one ending (unless you count the traditional speedrun bikini bonus of Super Metroid as an example of a different ending...)
 

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