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Just finished my second Gothic 3 run

Discussion in 'Piranha Bytes' started by cvv, May 1, 2020.

  1. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    So after having a world of blast with G1 I felt like moar PB. I played G2 recently so the clear choice was a second G3 run.

    I played G3 about six years ago and as I wrote ITT I actually loved it. I heeded the advice of the interwebz, played as a mage and had a blast. The combat got very repetitive halfway through, just pummeling mobs with fireballs, but overall I spent close to 100 hours in the game, explored every nook and cranny and enjoyed myself a lot, on the whole. Wasn't sure where all the hatorz were coming from.

    This time around I went for a full strength melee run. And boy do I now understand all the rage. I have no idea what was PB thinking, disgorging dozens, even hundreds of mobs into every town, city, cave or tomb. As a mage it wasn't a problem. Nothing as satisfying as exterminating 20 skeletons at once with a single meteor strike. But fighting this shit melee? Lulz.

    I started playing on Hard with the Alt-AI switched on. It was actually a lot of fun. As long as you're fighting a handful of weak-ish humanoids, or one strong one in an arena, it's actually good. Circling around, trying to pierce their block while maintaining yours, looking for opportunity to strike. But then you're introduced to the berserker pack of wolves or the minecrawlers with their hit frequency of a sewing machine and the fun is gone. In the end I dropped the difficulty to Medium, then to Easy, then I switched off the Alt-AI. Ultimately I just marvined in the god mode, skipped through the world to remind myself how beautiful it is and abandoned the game for good.

    I see two problems with the melee - lack of dodge and pants-on-head retarded amounts of mobs just mindlessly smeared across the map. And it's not just Nordmar either. Liberating the cities in Myrtana is just as brainless as wading through the mobs in Nordmar.

    I know people put a lot of blame on the retards at JoWood and yeah, they forced an early release. But was it JoWood who made PB turn Gothic into a wannabe Diablo? Did JoWood create the retarded system where if you liberate the two initial towns all the orcs in the game will attack you on sight, until the end? Did JoWood write quests without a quest compass or quest markers on the map (commendable) but with hilariously inadequate descriptions, so that you often have absolutely no idea where to go? Did JoWood write a story that doesn't make a sense half of the time? Is the sequential chest system a JoWood mental product? Did JoWood devise abilities or spells that are utterly useless, items and ingredients that have no purpose in the game?

    Nah, as I see it the blame should be equally spread among the published and PB. It's such an eternal shame. This game could've been an absolute masterpiece. All the aspie modders creating patches and new content have done an admirable work but ultimately they haven't changed much or they made things even worse (the Alt-AI). The fact that I spend over 140 hours in this unfinished, miserably unbalanced, often infuriating game during my two playthroughs is testament to its potential. G3 story is one of the biggest tragedies in all gaming.
     
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  2. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    You should have tried polearm weapons. Not that they will save you from 10+ orcs attacking you... But they do offer a huge reach advantage.

    The (undamaged) Orc halberd is rare and requires collosal Str but is an instrument of Carnage...
     
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  3. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    I know.
    But one, the halberd requires 400 Strength. That is a gigantic number. Even if you beelined for it, not levelling anything else, it'd take you a LONG time before you could use it.
    Two, not even spears and halberds will save you from wolves or other packs of mobs with broken AI and animations.
    And three, range is great but doesn't really fix the problem. If you're facing 30 skeletons or 40 orcs it takes only one to block, you'll get stunned briefly and that's that. The retarded amount of mobs, utterly, hilariously unfit for the combat system (or Gothic as an IP), makes all melee combat irredeemable. No idea why the modders never fixed that, instead of fiddling with the AI of a broken system.
     
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  4. commie The Last Marxist Patron

    commie
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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
    I dunno, I played on the old 1.60 CP and enjoyed the game as melee, but the mobs did get tiresome and I had more LP's than I know what to do with at end. I actually stopped investing them so as not to make it too easy. But I played for the exploration and Myrtana is still my favourite fantasy land, just cause the way its constructed to feel natural rather than theme park as in Bethesda games.

    I understand the newer patch does stuff good and bad so will definitely try it again. Dunno if I wanna be a mage though...but then again, I wasn't before...
     
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  5. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    This Kwan sums it all up very well, with almost German thoroughness.



    He only misses one thing. Thinking back about why exactly I sunk 100+ hours in the game my explanation is - I suffered through the unfinished content and broken systems to experience the incredible world. Every review criticising G3 should never fail to mention how great the world in that game is and how awesome it looks even to this day.

    My recommendation to anyone tempted to try this would be - get it, install it, play on Easy without the Alt-AI or Alt-Balancing and spend like 10 hours in it, just to taste the vibe of the deep forests, green meadows, castles and villages of Myrtana, the eerie, icy mountains and their rough clans with vaguely Viking/dwarvish feel and the sprawling, mysterious desert with dusty ruins, dark temples and lively bazaars. I'd say those few hours are worth suffering through the half-assed systems, nonsensical story and MMO quests. The world is that good.
     
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  6. Danikas Arcane

    Danikas
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    Nah would rather play Gothic 2 than waste my time on inferior game I played Gothic 3 on release and it just burned me so hard I will never return to this game.
     
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  7. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Goddamit do we really need 10 different threads about Gothic 3?
     
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  8. Monolith Cipher

    Monolith
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    Had a blast years ago with some version of the CP during a melee run. Kinda ran outta steam in Nordmar. But I still have that Savegame stored somewhere, adamant in finishing it once the world falls into a pandemic and... oh wait!
     
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  9. CaffeineConquistador Learned

    CaffeineConquistador
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    Basically OP summed up my experience with it recently. G1-2 were damn fine games, then 3 was a really good example of wtf happened here?
     
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  10. Konjad High on potatoes Patron

    Konjad
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    G3 is shit. Utter garbage. I've decided to replay Gothic series recently as well. Gothic 1 & 2 being one of the best RPGs ever released engrossed me once again even if I completed them multiple times over a decade ago. Once again I had so much fun as with few other games. Then it became time for Gothic 3.

    It's even worse than I remember it and I didn't finish it when I bought it on release, nor I am going to finish it now. It's extremely buggy, bland and boring. Even if you use Community Patch 1.75.

    Remember how amazing storytelling and quests were in Gothics? How much attention to details was given? How even simplest tasks had a story you could recall and inscribed memories? Gothic 3 throws it all out the window for copy-pasted quests and locations.

    I do not mean it figuratively. The entire world is filled with many towns. You can traverse through three different kingdoms/areas - from their farms to their capitals. The problem is: They all have the very same quests to get +++ reputation, so you can meet the leader, do a quest for him and get an artifact that you need to collect from another fed-ex quest (from Xardas/Rhobar). ALL quests are extremely simplistic and devoid of story. You meet many people, no matter if these are old friend NPCs, the king or just random people on the street - they all have only very few uninteresting lines that just tell you what to do for their fed-ex quest, and after you complete it you forget about them. There are no stories told. Have you seen the outro of Gothic 2 and you had many questions? Now when you meet Xardas he only says "I devoured the power of dragons! Now bring me 6 artifacts". The same if you meet the king himself: "We lost the war, so now I need 6 artifacts!".

    Instead of faction choice, now you get +++ points in factions by doing the same extremely basic tasks or freeing towns (where you just kill all orcs in a town). Mentioning orcs, I should also add that the terrifying orcs of Gothic 1/2 with their own language and tribal culture were replaced with "intelligent" orcs that are exactly like humans, but bigger and greener/more blue.

    The main story I cannot criticize because it doesn't exist. You are just thrown into the world with copy-pasted everything repeating same quest over and over again. By chance you should gather all the artifacts at some point and bring them somewhere to finish the game, but I had no patience to do so. I endured through a lot of trashy games, but this one is too much. Except decent music it has no positive aspects. There is literally no motive to play it, MMOs are way more varied in quests and elaborate in their story.

    If only at least it was a decent walking simulator. However, all surroundings and environments are also just copy-paste and there is no reason for exploration. This game is the opus magnum of copy-paste. It is the embodiment of repeatability. I have never in my life played a game that is even half as protracting. Even for a fan of original Gothics this game is pure garbage.

    I won't even go through trouble of describing how technically bad this game is and constantly sutters for 1-3 seconds even on a modern NVMe SSD with 4 core CPU and decently powerful GPU.

    Nor will I go into details of my confusion how are orcs and humans procreating... there are no children and practically no women in any of the available countries! All populations are solely male... I guess women only lived on the island where Gothic 1 and 2 took place. And ports? None whatsoever, apparently Khorinis had the only port in the known world.

    I cannot recommend it to anyone. Not for any price, not for any time. Gothic 3 is just terrible game in practically every aspect and playing it feels like an unrewarding chore. It it beyond my grasp how people who made original Gothics could make this junk. It is one of the worst RPGs I have ever played.
     
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  11. Lord_Potato Arcane

    Lord_Potato
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    I'm finishing my virgin run of Gothic 3 (level 69, only Ishtar left to explore and 1 artifact to get, then I'll start liberating all the towns of Myrtana and Varant, until now I only did it in Ardea, Cape Dun, Montera and lifted the curse of Gotha.

    I must say I'm having a blast with melee/ranged character with minimal magic. Yes, melee is broken, but if you are creative you can still dominate and defeat literal armies.

    Recently, just to check if I can I liberated Mora Sul all by myself (and then loaded an earlier save, because I still had quests there) by running away from mobs Aladdin style, jumping on roofs and bringing death from above with arrows and spells, then finishing off Gonzales and his crew in frantic melee combat. It was a fun an experience rarely offered by other games.
     
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  12. Monolith Cipher

    Monolith
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    That mirrors exactly my run.
     
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  13. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    Gothic 3 is a huge gap in my 3D RPG experience because I could NOT get the game running at release no matter what I did, so I abandoned it and then have never picked it up since. I know there are fan patches now, I just haven't gotten around to it. Guess I'll play a mage when I do.
     
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  14. JDR13 Magister

    JDR13
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    I commend anyone who actually managed to finish G3 not once but twice. You have some serious fortitude.

    It's not without some merits, but the game is just way too bloated, and it's not good enough to be as long as it is.
     
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  15. fantadomat Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    What are you on about,there is no classes in gothic 3,by the end you are divine god that kills everything and has all the traits and good stats lol. Also why the fuck would anyone pick an actual melee class when you could see it is shit in the first 10 minutes of the game. That said i never really put any points in str and still managed to kill all the town battles with a sword and shield. Also for melee build the pike is broken because of its range lol. I have no idea how people could be so shit at the game,modern garbage seems to have spoiled a lot of players. Try out the community patch with alternative combat,might like it more.

    Next time do the water mage path,getting the extra skillpoint per level at level 2-3 :lol:. It is a fun autistic half an hour run at the start.
     
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  16. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    If you're as hooked on the PB special sauce as me you'll find enough of it in G3 to keep you playing for dozens of hours, despite the nonsensical story, broken combat and pants on head retarded enemy encounter design. Plus it does have one of the best worlds ever designed for an RPG and in 2006 it looked better than Skyrim in 2011. It IS a remarkable vidya in may ways, lots to admire.
     
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  17. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    I had a fun ~50-60 hours with Gothic 3, didn't finish it though. The community content was surprisingly good, here's my post about how I played from a while back:
     
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  18. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    PB special sauce made me enjoy the Risen sequels, so surely I'll enjoy Gothic 3.
     
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  19. Optimist Learned Patron

    Optimist
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    As one of the rather few G3 apologists on this site, thought I might as well try and address a few of the issues Konjad mentions in his post. G3 is absolutely a flawed game, but - in my case, at least - time healed some of those wounds, so when I gave it another whirl some time ago (about three years?) I've had quite a lot of fun with it. Hope you don't mind me splitting your post into a few pieces?

    While YMMV, it feels as though you're a bit too cruel complaining about bugginess with CP installed - the last time I gave it a whirl I didn't really encounter any bugs, save for NPCs occasionally barely reacting while I was stealing some stuff in certain areas, which likely was PB trying to help the player out with thievery quests.

    I'd like to raise a few points with that.

    G3 is a result of trying to upscale G1/G2 formula. The dialogues in first two games were always succint and to the point, the fact that so many characters ended up being so memorable is at least partly the result of the fact that you needed to return to them every now and then to learn some skills, finish a fedex quest, or, at the very least, passed by them in these dense but small worlds. Due to how the world grew, having few, specific trainers would be very impractical, and require the player to traverse the map to upgrade even most common skills - more trainers needed to be added (other than for a few, very specific skills you can only learn from certain people). This made it so there are fewer characters you meet regularly, which is why they might appear less memorable.
    How these quests look is, again, quite similar to these in G1/2 - in G1 you needed to find Nek, in G3 you search for some lost paladin finding his corpse in caverns close to Montera. In G2 you needed to wipe out some boatflies in the swamps or beasties next to the mines, here you, once again, eliminate groups of monsters to calm down some asshat. PB is amazing when it comes to creating dense worlds, but the formula didn't quite work out with something this big.
    So, while I agree that a lot of these quests are rather similar to each other, I do believe that they're solid reimplementation of what worked previously, rather than some misguided jank. There's just so many of them that very few get etched into your mind. Also, the game is much longer than G1/G2, so it's harder to replay it over and over again = it's harder to learn quest dialogues by heart.
    The reputation++ is again, the result of upscaling of what worked previously - similarly to how you needed to gather approval of important folks in cities/ camps, here you run around and complete quests with the counter in the background. I'd disagree with your diagnosis of what's the end goal of gaining these reputation bonuses. Talking to these leaders is not necessary for accessing key items - you can always get to them in some other manner, even if this other manner might be mass homicide. What you get from them is mostly pointers and suggestions which help you in your search for these items - when looking for Xardas for the first time, without using any guides, these pointers should be what directs you to find him; it's similar with artifacts. I think their quests also help you gather the faction reputation, which you use for advancement in form of better faction armors.
    There are also some towns that are much more memorable. Mora Sul, Gotha and Faring are most memorable, I think, but I guess it's a bit of a personal issue. I greatly enjoyed how you could pretty much never visit some of these towns - there was nothing in Silden in any way related to the main plot, and you could, for example, skip Faring entirely by finding the secret mountain path.
    Xardas' plan is a bit more engaging, BTW. It's true that the idea of this "godly mantling", or however you might call it comes a bit out of nowhere (although you could get blessed/buffed by the gods in previous games, so...), but so did the dragons/ Beliar's Claw in G2/ Nacht des Rabens. He was trying to play both sides for increase of personal power, which, in turn, he wanted to use to stop gods from interfering with daily lives of the mortals. Zuben and Rhobar just want to murder anybody who disagrees with them, though.

    Main story is very... freeform, that's true. It does feel like the essence of sandboxes, though - first find an important NPC, then find some items. How you do it is completely up to you, but you should explore, talk to people and grow more powerful to achieve that.

    Disagree - some of the towns (as mentioned before) are rather memorable, and exploring Nordmar/ Varant feels really different that traversing Myrtana. And you need to explore to try and find people that might help you in searching for whatever/ whoever you need, and then get to them.

    I remember how taking a torch out was a death sentence for the framerate in the early versions - but again, while YMMV playing it a few years ago I didn't really experience any stuttering.

    This is mostly about PB being really shitty with modelling women - and aware of it as well. As far as orc women go, I think it is mentioned that they spend most of their times in (inaccessible) mountain fortresses, where they mostly take care of birthing children. And hey, there's a port right next to Ardea. You go there for Lester to tell you about how the pirates stole your ride when you were gone.

    Again, I'd absolutely not recommend it to anyone as their first contact point with Gothic series, but it really is quite solid, especially after these years of patches. I'd go as far as to say that it's a better PB large-scale open world game than Elex. Just play it as a wizard/archer rather than a melee dude and you'll be fine.
     
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  20. Morgoth Arcane Patron

    Morgoth
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    G1+2 were classics and after that Piranha became lazy and shit.

    End of story.

    And yes, ELEX was shit too and so will ELEX 2. You know it so don't get your hopes up.
     
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  21. JDR13 Magister

    JDR13
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    The problem is that it's obvious they were rushed and the world was never finished. The dungeons with little to nothing in them are a dead giveaway. If PB had been given more time, I think G3 could have been a truly great game. As it is, even with the community patch, it's a flawed gem at best.
     
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  22. JDR13 Magister

    JDR13
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    Elex is better in almost every conceivable way. Unless you simply can't stand the setting, I'm not sure how anyone could claim otherwise.
     
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  23. Lord_Potato Arcane

    Lord_Potato
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    Yeah, I like Gothic 3 too but lets not get carried away. Elex is much a competently made, finished game with more interesting world, characters, story, better bestiary and combat and more opportunities for role playing.
     
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  24. Skdursh Learned

    Skdursh
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    ELEX disparagers get the rope. ELEX is love, light and life. Praise be.
     
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