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Development Info Kingdom Come: Deliverance Update: The Trials of Game Development

Discussion in 'RPG Codex News & Content Comments' started by Crooked Bee, Jun 5, 2014.

  1. Crooked Bee (no longer) a wide-wandering bee Patron

    Crooked Bee
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    Tags: Kingdom Come: Deliverance; Warhorse Studios

    Dan Vavra has penned a new development update aka blog post about the progress he and other people at Warhorse Studios have been making on their medieval-themed open-world RPG Kingdom Come: Deliverance -- and the trials and tribulations they have to face along the way. Here's a little something to get you started:

    [​IMG]
    (Click on image for higher resolution)

    So now back to telling you about how the development of Deliverance is progressing. Although it looks from the previous blogs that the work is going without a hitch, the time has come to cool down a little and look at all the stuff that is not going so great and that we’re seriously struggling with. Not that I want to make us look like incompetent amateurs and lead you to a state of despair, but I think you will be interested to know about all the things we come up against.

    As you may have gathered from the previous posts, Warhorse has doubled in size in the last two months from less than 30 people to 60 of us. The new recruits came not only from our own little country, but also from the US (even from Bethesda), Poland and Sweden. So theoretically we can now do twice as much work. The problem, though, is that work on a game is based on the design document. Naturally, our original plan was to write the design as we went along. According to the design, the core features were supposed to be designed first and as the designs gradually expanded we would take on more people as needed.

    But our situation in the last, quite dramatic year drew a stroke through our budget. Since I was looking for money and shooting the Kickstarter video instead of designing, our design document has a few, quite significant gaps and even though I am now far from alone on the job (there are eight of us now), it is only coming together as a whole very slowly. The new people have to be trained, we all have to get on the same page, write the design in the same way, set up a system of work and define patterns of how we will write so that other people apart from us will be able to find their way in it, and all of that is demanding. Especially when, like me, you have to roll in front of you a massive boulder of backlog stuff.

    Don’t get me wrong. Our design runs to several hundred pages – we don’t pull the game out of thin air. Most of the features are described down to the minutest detail. Only then a situation come along where you are desperately trying to write the last few missing, but quite important features for the programmers, the designers meanwhile are working on lacking craft mechanisms and in the middle of it all ten new graphic and concept designers are asking for assignments. But to assign work to the graphic guys, you first have to read and comment the crafting design from the designers, which after two weeks of work by six people “surprisingly” runs to a hundred pages, and that you cannot read in five minutes.​

    Along the way, says Dan, "anarchy" ensues. To find out how exactly it ensues and why and what can be done about it, read the full original blog post.

    In other news, the game's website has new preorder tiers available now. And there's an official Wiki page, too.
     
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  2. mikaelis Prophet Patron

    mikaelis
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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014
    If there's anything that will drag this game down, it is this:

    fucking LARPERS!!! :x

    I hope they will manage those turd-ideas in a right way (i.e., flush them down the toilet), but somehow, I have a feeling that multiheaded dick started to hit their asses and legs in the entire wrong spots...

    Ha:
    Now we know where those "brilliant" ideas come from :troll:
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
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  3. abnaxus Arcane Patron

    abnaxus
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    So this is still a thing?

    Industrial espionage detected.
     
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  4. Excommunicator Arcane

    Excommunicator
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    Sounds like a real mess of a project. Most likely over budget and under delivered
     
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  5. Humanity has risen! Arcane Patron Repressed Homosexual

    Humanity has risen!
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    Take all the time you need please! Make sure to deliver a polished, worthwhile product!
     
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  6. Kem0sabe Arcane

    Kem0sabe
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    Seems that in the unlikely situation this is released, it will be in pretty messy state.

    I have a former classmate who is now working as an engineer in poland for a portuguese multinational construction company and the shit he tells me about how people work there is beyond the pale, even worse than working in Angola were his exact words, so it doesnt surprise me when Eastern european developers and proper project development don't seem to go very well hand in hand.
     
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  7. Shadenuat Arcane

    Shadenuat
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    I hope they don't listen to possible Bethesda fans migrated to their forums or something, but judging by features like fishing and serving beer they might ruin the game even without their help.

    I just want a main quest about whatever in medieval world involving fighting with realistic medieval weapons and armor. Why can't I get good things?
     
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  8. MicoSelva Prestigious Gentleman Don't call Abigail Patron

    MicoSelva
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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    There is this strange push for open world games to have a fuckload of side-activities, instead of expanding and improving core gameplay. That is why they are so shallow, usually.
     
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  9. Drowed Arcane

    Drowed
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    Yeah, this. It seems that currently, the main objective of the game developers is to provide the maximum possible random and generic tasks to fill the time of the player. Look at the success that the new GTA has made with its near-endless minigames. The more tasks the game offers, the "better", although all of them are superficial as the more you try to expand the scope of a game, shallower its parts become.
     
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  10. Tytus Arcane

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    If the game won't have a horse shoe throwing contest then it's ruined forever.
     
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  11. throwaway Arbiter

    throwaway
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    Someone should mail them this along with a copy of Assassins Creed 3.
     
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  12. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    Well, I hear you, but at the same time, side activities can really help flesh out the game world. This is especially relevant in this discussion because you can compare the first Mafia game (made with Vavra's involvement) to GTA games. Both have large open worlds with cars and guns and pedestrians, but Mafia was very focused on core gameplay (missions, storylines), whereas GTA games have a ton of stuff to do aside from the missions. As a result of that, Mafia, despite having good gunplay and storylines, and gameplay in general, never really felt like a real virtual world, something GTA games excel in.

    So I think it's more important for them to choose the right side activities, something that they can make deep and entertaining enough for players really engage in. Obviously being an innkeep is kinda stupid, I don't see any depth in that at all, seems more like something you would do once and never again. BUt there are other side activities they could implement that I think would be very enjoyable and not just some stupid gimmick. I remember them mentioning hunting in one of the videos, so if they could implement good AI for animals, and challenging but enjoyable archery mechanics, hunting could be a very interesting side activity. Instead of that silly stretch goal they had for a separate arena mode, how about a side activity where towns you come to have regular fighting tournaments where you can compete against various AI opponents in swordfighting, jousting, archery, etc, and be recognized for your prowess. This could be done procedurally, as a dynamic event, so it could go on indefinitely and never run out, win one tournament, another dynamically starts in another town and so on. Or how about similarly to Red Dead Redemption, dynamic side quests/missions to rescue some people in distress or hunt down some bandits, medieval style.
     
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  13. MicoSelva Prestigious Gentleman Don't call Abigail Patron

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  14. buzz Arcane

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    I wouldn't mind LARPing mechanics in this game, as long as they provide a bit more meaningful experience to them, at least somewhat tied to the gameplay.
    For example, fishing, playing music or sitting by the campfire and listening tales should be tied to the "resting" mechanic. This would be an opportune moment for NPC banter, reviewing your stats and inventory, maybe even upgrading your skills if the game doesn't have NPC trainers, reviewing the locations you've mapped, enjoying the view and so on.
    Or just expand a bit on the fishing/hunting side. Instead of the classic "use fishing pole -> get generic fish", you could have different kind of baits and lures, nets and traps, multiple types of fish and animals, location and weather conditions count as variables. Some fish/animal ingredients should be really valuable for crafting or hunting/fishing a special animal should increase your local reputation ("Look, it's the guy that slayed the giant pink bear!"). Or the best one, use your fishing skill to get some lost items from underwater, or maybe a message in a bottle that can trigger a quest.
    Even the bartending side could have interesting in-game consequences. As an innkeeper you should be able to get a lot more information on various things than by being a normal citizen. Make connections and relations, improve your standing and so on.

    Of course, all of the stuff I've mentioned are way beyond the scope of a game that got a few mills in a kickstarter so I would't recommend them to focus too much on side activities unless they're absolutely sure they've nailed everything else. Better no fishing than some generic, useless fishing that cuts some money and time from the project.
     
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  15. Zorba the Hutt Arcane Weasel

    Zorba the Hutt
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    Great way to waste your resources. Going into production before you've finished your planning? Hiring artists and programmers before you need them; having people "ask for assignments" before you are ready to give them any; having to redo some of this work later when it turns out it clashes with design decisions?

    Sounds like shockingly bad project management, especially with a limited pool of kickstarter funds. Now he's having to "ruthlessly" chop features they won't have the resources to implement. :roll:
     
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  16. Shadenuat Arcane

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    Mafia had tight design where everything about it's core gameplay made sense. Driving was simulated to the point that you could run out of gas and crossing red lights or driving too fast made cops go for you - not by slamming you with cars or gunning you down from helicopters though as in GTA, but charging you money first. Game actually made you learn to drive a car, unlike GTA where you always change cars like gloves and do all the stupid things with them. You had to learn how to break in and start up all the cars. And you drived as a taxist cause main character was a taxist, before story picked up. And the city, while small, was memorable.

    I'd play Mafia 1 over any GTA any day. And Mafia's world always looked more real, mature and refined to me. Even if it didn't have dressing up or bowling.
    I remember playing Mafia, when I had to go get some tea, instead of just pausing the game, I parked my car at the side of the street for some reason. Glorious LARP.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
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  17. valcik Arcane

    valcik
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    .. bethesdian modus operandi.
    1. Infiltrate a mole
    2. Let him implement some fragments of bethesdian source code in their shit
    3. Wait until final release
    4. Sue their pants off for stealing your awesome ideas (tm) and source code
    5. Profit!
    :yeah:
     
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  18. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Coming 2021!
     
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  19. Pantalones Prospernaut

    Pantalones
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    Sounds like it will be Oblivion done "right" if it ever comes out.
     
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  20. Disgruntled Savant

    Disgruntled
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    That was a decent read. Its good to see developers be upfront on what goes wrong before they've released anything rather than some retrospective after the fanbase got shafted.
    I think they'll pull through and this honesty is a nice headsup for the likely delays.
     
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  21. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

    Burning Bridges
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    You are an idiot, do you know that. This is a Czech company, not Russian. Czechs run things more or less like Germans, not Angolans.
     
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  22. Kem0sabe Arcane

    Kem0sabe
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    If Czechs ran things like Germans they wouldn't be a third world country outside of the city limits of Prague where half the population would emigrate for a bag of peanuts.

    Damned eastern europeans are all the same

    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

    Burning Bridges
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    All right, big kahuna
     
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  24. Murk Arcane

    Murk
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    They make beer and have a big church full of bones. Sounds good to me.
     
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  25. Excidium P. banal

    Self-Ejected
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    Also hot women.
     
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