Lack of Publicity for Greyhawk ToEE.

[triCritical]

I think with a summer release just 5-6 months away I find it strange that Troika/Infogrames has not done more to market their product. There is no website, no screenshots, no previews or anything that would try to get the general public interested in the title. Now I know DnD sells itself, but with not so good sales of IWD2 and the hype machine that is NWN I am surprised that people are not doing more.

I guess I really hope this product succeeds, since it looks to have everything that I think makes a good RPG. Would it just be dreamy if people started cloning good games for once.

 

[Aldin]

Troika and Infogrames have both been burned badly by game overexposure lately. For Troika it was Arcanum, a game which missed Christmas, then was doomed by a publisher decision to "wait for a global release" while the warez were flowing. Infogrames has a rather hostile fan base banging the doors for MoO3, a game long in the pipeline. I'd imagine both are perfectly happy to wait until they're sure they have an on-time winner before they start pumping the marketing up.

~Aldin

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Yeah, it's probably once burned, twice shy here. Really I think it's somewhat senseless to release lots of info too early, anyway. BIS went public with IWD2 in February or so, got scads of activity in the forums, wound up making pretty drastic changes, and then interest had kind of died off by the time it was released, after it kept getting bumped back.

Troika might have done better to just keep totally quiet rather than go public and then not give too many more details like they're doing now, though. But then word of mouth wouldn't have time to spread. Lots of factors going on, I guess. They said it's already in QA, though, hopefully it won't be too much longer.

 

[Spazmo]

If the game is already in QA, then it must be reasonably complete, and we could at least get a few screenshots.

But anyways, I figure we'll see some stuff in the two or three months leading up to the game.

 

[riddick]

Being an avid (rabid?) CRPG fan meself, I was also pretty surprised by the lack of PR for such a 'name' game, D&D wise. Having DM'ed both the 2nd and 3rd edition campaigns of ToEE, I'm trying to hold back the anticipatory drool. But the only reason I even heard of this title was through a buried snippet on 'Blue News', which posted a link to the interview here. I can see why they're doing it, for all the reasons stated above, but it sure is low-key. However, if that means it keeps the developers free from overwhelming scrunity to pursue a quality game, then go Troika.

OT slightly, its interesting to note that they've stated that they have entered QA - being a software QA manager meself, this can mean a few things. QA is usually ongoing throughout any software development, and if the company has good process, it should actually be the first thing to start development wise. If they mean final QA, then this is where the software is actually feature complete, and its the proving phase. Given the projected release date though, Its more likely that its feature locked, but not code complete, with QA still focused on systems testing of all of the features and the GUI. Having fallen into the trap of release date speculation before, I'm not going to go there, and moreover, this board seems far too cool to get into that sort of panty-twisting. Guess I'm just letting my excitement expand into idle speculation about how far along along the development cycle Troika are.

Anyway, nice to find another good RPG board where R stands for role and not roll.

 

[Vikjunk]

I'm not so sure if they are in feature lock. They still are saying that they have a few things on their cool stuff list, like subraces, prestige classes, etcetera, that they want to try to get into the game if they have enough time. I think that they are most likely getting close to it, but there are still things that they want to do before finishing up the game.

 

[riddick]

We hope. :D

Every software house has different development models - the general trend in the gaming industry (from what limited real contact I've actually had, disregarding hearsay and the big bad IT rumour mill) seems to focus more so on coding and re-coding features until the last possible moment, which is less prevalent in the areas of sw dev that I've been involved with meself. Naturally, everybody involved with a gaming project wants the feature list to be big and beautiful, and its not just the dev staff, the marketeers in particular wanna be able to shout it loud and proud over the bandwidth. Its also somewhat more forgivable (from the customers side) to patch a popular game, than it is to patch a piece of software that out of the box is a thousand bucks (Aussie, not US) - the customers expectations of the off the shelf product tend to be more strict (excluding everthing from the world of Micrococks). Thats why the non-game programmers have to have a Speech skill of 200% and a Charisma of 10, if they wanna 'add just this one little line of code' once the build has entered QA.

Anyway, whatever stage this game is at, I hope Tim and the other Troikas deliver. Damn, Drool bucket please. Again.

 

[Jed]

I'm not so sure if they are in feature lock. They still are saying that they have a few things on their cool stuff list, like subraces, prestige classes, etcetera, that they want to try to get into the game if they have enough time. I think that they are most likely getting close to it, but there are still things that they want to do before finishing up the game.

Tim Cain has my heart in feature lock.

J

 

[triCritical]

I kind of hope the game is on feature lock. I really do not want them to add things that a crowd might want that could potentially unbalance or create negative publicity. One example are prestige classes, which tend to be quite unbalanced/munchkin'd, leaving these out might help avoid a lot of the criticism that Arcanum had. I guess the moral of the story is try not to add anything that could potentially backfire on you.

 

[Aldin]

I really do not want them to add things that a crowd might want that could potentially unbalance or create negative publicity. One example are prestige classes, which tend to be quite unbalanced/munchkin'd.

Because, as we all know, no one thinks the core classes are unbalanced Since there's a level cap at 10 character levels, having prestige classes might be fun, but hardly overpowering or game-breaking. This is especially true if they stick to the PrCs that are easiest to code (which will be the ones which have the most abilities already reflected in existing races/feats/skills/spells).

In my mind, the toughest question would be which PrCs to allow. No matter what choice is made there, somebody is gonna whine that their favorite wasn't included. That's at least one argument for sticking solely to the PHB (mind you, it looks a lot like subraces, at least, are goijng to make it in).

~Aldin

 

[triCritical]

Because, as we all know, no one thinks the core classes are unbalanced Since there's a level cap at 10 character levels, having prestige classes might be fun, but hardly overpowering or game-breaking. This is especially true if they stick to the PrCs that are easiest to code (which will be the ones which have the most abilities already reflected in existing races/feats/skills/spells).

I realize this, but PrC's are pretty over the top. Anyhow I really don't see the need for them, and I think a cleric in the wrong hands is all the unbalancing a 3E game needs. :wink:

In my mind, the toughest question would be which PrCs to allow. No matter what choice is made there, somebody is gonna whine that their favorite wasn't included. That's at least one argument for sticking solely to the PHB (mind you, it looks a lot like subraces, at least, are goijng to make it in).

Another good reason not to include them. And where did you find the info on the subraces? Please don't tell me the IGN boards, I lose a couple of IQ points everytime I go over to that hotbed of depravity.

 

[Spazmo]

TC mentioned on GameSpot that he might, given enough time implement "cool stuff like subraces."

I hate prestige classes. They make no sense. I mean, just because your rogue is a member of a given guild, he can suddenly climb walls with a magic ability? Bullshit.

 

[Aldin]

I realize this, but PrC's are pretty over the top. Anyhow I really don't see the need for them, and I think a cleric in the wrong hands is all the unbalancing a 3E game needs. :wink:

Yup, Clerics (and Rogues) are generally touted as overpowered, while many deride Rangers, Druids and Bards (and occasionally Sorcerors) as underwhelming. Monks and Paladins are called too restrictive. So I guess only Barbarians, Fighters, and Wizards are balanced - well, except for the Wizard part...

And where did you find the info on the subraces? Please don't tell me the IGN boards, I lose a couple of IQ points everytime I go over to that hotbed of depravity.

Tim mentioned that they were on a wish list in IRC and mentioned they should be fairly easy to implement (at least the non-ECL races). And you oughtta come join us at the Inn - Depravity is fun :wink:

~Aldin

 

[Spazmo]

Clerics were pretty underpowered in 2nd Ed. and nobody wanted to play them, so it makes sense that they're powahful now.

As for bards... you have to role-play them right to get the full effect.

 

[triCritical]

Clerics were pretty underpowered in 2nd Ed. and nobody wanted to play them, so it makes sense that they're powahful now.

I think clerics were pretty powerful in 2E. I just hated the way the IE treated them.

As for bards... you have to role-play them right to get the full effect.

Just not my kind of character. Although I would call Matthew modines character in FULL METAL JACKET a very bard like character that I thought was kind of k3wl.

So I guess only Barbarians, Fighters, and Wizards are balanced - well, except for the Wizard part... icon_lol.gif

I like the fighter class, and I think its is fun to play. It one the classes that leaves a lot of open roleplaying.

And you oughtta come join us at the Inn - Depravity is fun icon_wink.gif

I have been going to the inn a little bit more frequently lately, mainly because of how the developers have been showing up. I am very excited about this project if you can't tell.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Because, as we all know, no one thinks the core classes are unbalanced

They're not balanced in terms of combat, no. That's one problem with D&D CRPGs, they're mostly combat fests, so fighting balance, or lack thereof, really shows. That's why D&D CRPGs actually need to promote roleplaying aspects in addition to combat.

Since there's a level cap at 10 character levels, having prestige classes might be fun, but hardly overpowering or game-breaking. This is especially true if they stick to the PrCs that are easiest to code (which will be the ones which have the most abilities already reflected in existing races/feats/skills/spells).

Prestige classes are one of the main reasons D&D should move to skill based rather than class based. At some point, it's just easier to manage than 10+ classes and all the multitude of prestige classes each class has. It's a lot easier to break down those abilities in terms of skill sets than it is to impliment them as they are now.

Look at Avernum's system, it's fairly classless, even though the game includes motiffs for classes. You can easily make many traditional D&D archetypes from what's given to you by that skill system there. A paladin would be like focusing on a combat skill, priest magic, and healing, for example. Further subdivisions in a system like Avernum's would allow you even more if there were skills like nature magic, stealth, etc.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

I really liked Clerics in 2E. You had to be willing to be a support character or else multiclass, but they were pretty indispensable. A party without a cleric probably wouldn't last too long. For hack and slash games your cleric might feel a little left out, but they had a lot of flexibility and role-playing opportunities outside of combat. I think they did pretty much make them the uberclass in 3E, though. They can duke it out with mages in spell slinging and fighters in combat as long as they have a little preparation. They can pretty much do everything and do it well, now. It kind of goes with 3E, though, everything is geared around combat it seems.

I think most prestige classes are silly. I don't see why they feel the need to make them so much better than the base classes. Just about every one I've seen just kind of makes the base classes look like nothing. Like the Blackguard, he basically gets to scoop up almost the same amount of abilities and spells in 10 levels that a Paladin gets in 20 levels. The ones for spellcasters can get especially obnoxious, too, you generally get to progress right along in your spells like nothing happened, then you scoop up all kinds of special abilities on top of that.

 

[LCJr.]

I'd say the lack of publicity is probably a good thing. Pretty much anything that has "Dungeons and Dragons" on the box sells if you put on the shelf. Besides that over-hyping a game usually raises everyones expectations and then you end up disappointed with it.