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Lands of Lore - the Throne of Chaos

Grunker

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LoL is on the Codex list for three reasons: cool world, fantastic art and nostalgia. And I say this as someone that has it in my Top 10 list.

The whole genre is like that though, Grimrock included.
 

Darth Roxor

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The whole genre is like that though, Grimrock included.

what nonsense

RT blobbers are mostly about getting lost and solving puzzles. None of this applies to LoL. Also "cool world" hory shiet, what the hell is supposed to be cool about the world of LoL?

Also, muh nostalgia for grimrock released in 2012.
 

Grunker

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LoL is on the Codex list for three reasons: cool world, fantastic art and nostalgia. The whole genre is like that though, Grimrock included.

Fair enough, that was clumsily expressed. I meant that the whole genre has bad core gameplay/combat so the games that are liked are liked for other things.
 

Darth Roxor

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I meant that the whole genre has bad core gameplay/combat

Putting it as "bad core gameplay/combat" is a pretty agenda-based way to put it, considering there's more to the core gameplay of rt blobbers than combat. What makes up the 'core gameplay' of these to me are 3 things: combat, exploration, puzzle solving. Combat is universally bad, yes, because it's a RT party-based clusterfuck that relies on reflexes and typically has terrible controls, but saying that the exploration and puzzle solving are also universally bad is ridiculous, considering those are largely the reasons to play these in the first place.

As an example, Lands of Lore has neither any exploration (popamoley automap with all sorts of markers and corridor-structure of the world) nor good puzzle solving (I don't think I remember anything more involved than use x on y). No amount of cool art or what have you can save this terrible thing, at least to me, and at least when compared to Grimrock 2 or Eye of the Beholder.
 

Grunker

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True enough. I probably would have enjoyed Grimrock if it had no combat, though I'm not sure the pacing would have survived it.
 

DraQ

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How about music and graphics? LoL looks and sounds absolutely sweet. It's also strangely atmospheric.

Without those qualities - yeah, it's simplistic to the point of making Oblivion a cerebral experience, it literally has three skills - magic, hitting things and sneaky stuff - we were joking about being the logical conclusion to dumbing down of TES, FFS.
The whole genre is like that though, Grimrock included.

what nonsense

RT blobbers are mostly about getting lost and solving puzzles. None of this applies to LoL. Also "cool world" hory shiet, what the hell is supposed to be cool about the world of LoL?
Well, for what it's worth, it's not iso standard fantasy. It still has elves and pseudo-medieval stuff, but it also has catpeople, ugly "dragon" people and weird four-armed whatever they are supposed to be. Ironically there doesn't seem to be enough lore in it to be able to say anything more, but that's still better than most fantasy settings.

LoL is on the Codex list for three reasons: cool world, fantastic art and nostalgia. The whole genre is like that though, Grimrock included.
It's kind of old-school experience so it can be nostalgic without being old.
Hell, Wizardry 8 felt nostalgic to me for some reason despite being literally the first blobber I've ever played.
 

Nyast

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LoL is usually recommanded here because it's one of those rare games that aged well. It has decent graphics despite the low resolution and a pretty intuitive user interface. Most games of that era are almost unplayable today just because of the UI. It was also considered a "simplification" over other RT blobbers of the era, which is why a lot of people at the time didn't like it. If you wanted a challenge, I don't think that was the best game to start with. Note that it does become more complex later on though, with tougher fights and puzzles.

I saw somebody mention Dungeon Master. Imagine playing only the first 5 levels of DM and judging the rest of the game on that ? By level 5, all you've tasted is some linear corridors gameplay and simplistic puzzles. So if you're gonna judge LoL on its first 1/3rd, on a game that's already considered a simplification of the genre.. well yeah, it's probably disapointing :)
 
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theSavant

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success is based upon how fast you can click on either your attack options or scrolling inventory. I'm playing the cool magic-user dude, which is a plus. I'm near some swamps right now

Yeah, it's a clickfest :( When I tried to replay the game (after 20 years), I perceived the clicking very stressful. So stressful I had to stop entirely. And I'm saying this despite LOL introduced me to RPGs. No amount of nostalgia can compensate that. Just not my type of game anymore. I wished it were a turn-based-blobber.
On a sidenote, I believe you can press F1,F2,F3 to melee attack, which can reduce the clicking a bit.
 

octavius

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I didn't play LoL back in the days, but enjoyed it some years ago.
But I did enjoy EoB and though Black Crypt was rather meh, but when replaying the games I enjoyed Black Crypt (now I think it's best RT Blobber after DM and CSB) but found the mix of real time and AD&D in EoB too grating.
 

Unkillable Cat

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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
You pack of lying bastards. Ok, maybe that's a bit harsh, but after reading this thread and since it is on the Codex Top 72 CRPGs of all time list, I decided to purchase this series from GOG and play Lands of Lore 1. I really can't understand how it made our top CRPG list, even if it's towards the bottom.

There's post in this thread where I name LoL as a pre-2000 sign of :decline:, so don't go accusing me of lying to you. With that said I think it's a fun game.

As to where you are... you're at a critical point as the game is about to kick it up a notch. I'm interested in hearing how you fare.

I'm going to step away from LoL1 and think about whether or not I still want to commit the 10 hours or so to beat it or whether I'll just watch a Let's Play for curiosity's sake.

No no no, not now! Give it one more session, have a look around where you are right now in-game. THEN decide.
 

Leitz

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The sequel is good for a laugh:


Cat Hitler
ch9jowuu.jpg




pay attention to the foam around the mouth of the hand puppet dino I've turned into
mwmdhobq.jpg




...
ks2mrhda.jpg




You need a handkerchief?
lasppop7.jpg
 

Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
You pack of lying bastards. Ok, maybe that's a bit harsh, but after reading this thread and since it is on the Codex Top 72 CRPGs of all time list, I decided to purchase this series from GOG and play Lands of Lore 1. I really can't understand how it made our top CRPG list, even if it's towards the bottom.

There's post in this thread where I name LoL as a pre-2000 sign of :decline:, so don't go accusing me of lying to you. With that said I think it's a fun game.

As to where you are... you're at a critical point as the game is about to kick it up a notch. I'm interested in hearing how you fare.

I'm going to step away from LoL1 and think about whether or not I still want to commit the 10 hours or so to beat it or whether I'll just watch a Let's Play for curiosity's sake.

No no no, not now! Give it one more session, have a look around where you are right now in-game. THEN decide.

Sorry, baby, but I've got to be free.

choppe.jpg
 
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theSavant

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Is a solo-run viable in Lands of Lore 1? I'm thinking of getting Baccata and Paulson killed permanently or just not using them at all (even if they're alive). The questions are:

- Is level-up noticeably faster or do the unused/dead characters still pull some experience points?
- I also can't remember if dead characters are automatically resurrected when you go to sleep?
- Another question is what's the maximum level that can be achieved?

The idea behind that is of course that you may achieve twice as many level-ups than with a full party. Though I'm afraid this game has some limitations which prevent that fun. Anyone knows?



Edit: maybe Kieran would be the best choice because he can attack the fastest... or can he? (...too long since I last played it)
 
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Unkillable Cat

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I can tell you right off the bat that 'dead' characters are not automatically resurrected.

For a solo run I'm unsure whether Kieran is the best choice. As mentioned deep in this thread, there's a really interesting thread about this game over at Abandonia. If you trawl through that you'll probably find some answers, but one (possible) answer I saw is that the level cap seems to be capped at 7 for each field.
 
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theSavant

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I've read a bit and took some notes for the record:

- Level 10 is maximum for each Fighter/Rogue/Mage level. Though I could swear I've seen in some videos values of 11 or even 12. But maybe that was a stat enhancement due to a weapon.

- Someone said that Kieran attacks about 20% faster. He also added that this bonus might not be worthy, as his "Might" stats (defining attack strength) is much lower than that of other characters. Besides someone said, that at Rogue Level 4 the attack speed gets noticeably faster, but that other characters can train that skill as well using bows. Oh, and the Jade Necklace should help as well, as it adds +2 to the Rogue level.

Oh well, still an interesting thought experiment. It would have been even more interesting if all items were accessible in the game without hex-editing. There's this "Zephyr Ring", which allegedly cannot be accessed in the game, but would reduce cooldown 2-3 times. That's a lot. Would have been nice for a Rogue like Kieran on top of his existing bonus... spamming attacks with almost no cooldown.

Edit: interesting... some people in the megathread actually claimed they found the ring normally, but couldn't remember where. Probably depends on Rogue level and when looting tree holes or chests.
 
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Darth Canoli

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I remember playing the second back in the days and somewhat enjoying it on the second try, as for the first, i don't like RT blobbers (Grimrock was alright but it bored me to tears halfway) and tried it last year, didn't go any farther than the area after the early boat trip.

The reason why we have those RT shit systems is because most people don't like cRPG combat so at least, in RT they somewhat get some adrenaline rush out of it when i only get some game designers murder thoughts.
 

naossano

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The dead charaters might not resurrect, but they might say their dialogs lines when needed.

Although, i would be more worried about the difficulty of some levels, like the one with ghosts.
(i am not sure you have the magic sword that can hit ghost the first time you get there, and the spell have long cooldown, unless it is mana)
 
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theSavant

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So... with my pink nostalgia glasses on, I (re)bought LOL1+2 on GOG (because I only had the CD version) and tried to give Lands of Lore 1 a run again.

As in my previous post hinted, I tried to make a Solo-Run with Kieran. Solo-Run means, that I just leave Baccata and Paulson dead all the time. I also tried to focus on being a Rogue and mostly use Ranged Weapons. I played until the City of Yvel and then stopped.

Not motivated anymore... because of reasons... :mad:

=> First of all, I am really annoyed by all these weapons which have special names. When they have special names, you automatically think that this name must indicate something special. There must be a special effect, some cool feature, something awesome - - - But there is nothing! Nothing awesome about them! No special effect! No cool feature! No observable effects! No nothing at all! So you have these 100 weapons with different names, and then you eventually find out, that they mean nothing at all! The only thing which matter is how much points it adds to "Might". Everything else you can ignore. Well almost. There are maybe 10 weapons in the game which actually make a difference, such as the Valkyrie Crossbow (which shoots fireballs) or the Emerald Blade (big bonus against ghosts). But all these other weapons...? Nothing! It doesn't make a fucking difference! They should have called these weapons "generic weapon 1", "generic weapon 2", "generic weapon 3". This would have been better. Seriously.

=> Examples:

So there's this "Stealth Shield"... I thought this is the same as the one in Lands of Lore 2 which makes you invisible - but no - everyone sees you. It's just another weak shield. Maybe the "Whisper Cloak" makes you stealthy then? Nope - just another weak jacket.

So there's this Bow "Scout", which I thought is a bow that shoots a projectile the attack which hurts the enemy most. In Lands of Lore 2 this bow shot arrows, ice bolts, fireballs depending on the enemy. But here? Nothing! Just another weak bow only shooting arrows.

So there's this Axe "Dominance" with 5% killing chance? I thought with Kieran's faster attack rating I'm more lucky to get instant kills - but no - I'venever seen an instant kill. And because it's also so weak, it would be stupid to keep it in hope that 1 in 20 attacks would kill the enemy. No fucking enemy even lives that long! Absolutely useless.

So there's this Warhammer "Thunder Maul" (or whatever it's called) which has a 25% to produce a thunderstorm. Sometimes I heard a noise like a thunder, but nothing really happened. Not even a blood spatter on the enemy. I mean... WTF? I thought this sword should be similar to the enchanted "Thohans Great Sword" in Lands of Lore 2. In LOL2 it actually made a difference in impact and visually - but not in LOl1.

So there's this bow "Gemini", which shoots 2 arrows. Finally a weapon where you can actually see the special effect! And you think it must be good - but no - these 2 arrows are so weak, that it's worse than the Valkyrie and other single-shot-crossbows which you get at the same time.

And then there's this "Sword Entropy", "Sword Protector", "Jeweled Dagger", "Dagger Assassin", "Throwing Star Vega", blahblahblah.... come on! Don't name this shit special if it doesn't change shit! Fuck this shit! It doesn't matter!
rating_shit.png

This was better solved in Lands of Lore 2+3. There you could at least see and experience some additional effects. Although in Lands of Lore 2 you often had to "seek" for the special effect in order to experience it. It was more obvious in Lands of Lore 3.
Anyways... using and applying the special effect of all these "wondrous" weapons with their "wondrous" names was actually one of the main motivators to start this playthrough. Now that I found out that at least 90% of these "wondrous" names mean nothing at all, this motivation is gone.


=> About the attack rating:
Contrary to what I've read in the megathread, I don't see a change in attack speed when reaching Rogue level 4. The attack speed is the same as always. Maybe the Rogue level changes the ranged attack damage, or maybe only lockpicking? I don't know.
Attack speed of Kieran at Rogue level 6 is the same as in the beginning: exactly 2 seconds (my full stats at this point in the game were Fight: 5, Rogue: 6, Magic: 3)
Attack speed of other characters: default attack speed is exactly 3 seconds. I don't know if it changes for them when they train Rogue, but it didn't change for Kieran.
The idea to get a faster Attack Rating per Rogue level was also one of my main motivators to start this playthrough. Now that I found out that the Rogue level doesn't seem to change the Attack Rating at all, this motivation is also gone.


=> About levelling up and level limits:
I thought by using one character only, his level-ups would be so fast, that I would be close to the maximum Level in the midgame already (at least for 1 skill). Didn't work. The solo-character did level up faster at the beginning, but at Level 4 onwards it became very slow, and finally got stuck. Which means there is a limit on how much you can level up per area. In the Urbish Mines I didn't gain any experience anymore when I reached Rogue level 4. I had to move to the next area to gain new experience again. This is not necessarily bad, but it destroyed my attempt to reach maximum level at the midgame.
And I'm still far from it. That "Rogue Level 6" is only because of the Jade Necklace, otherwise I'm still Level 5. And even when I entered new areas, the experience gain became very slow. It became so slow, that I don't even know if it's possible to reach the maximum Rogue level at the endgame. There are only 3 areas left (Catwalk Cave, Xeob Dungeon, Cimmeria).
The idea to level up quickly and max out a specific skill very early was also one of my main motivators to start this playthrough. Now that I found out that game limits it in a way that makes it very slow to impossible, this motivation is also gone.


It's time to put off the pink nostalgia glasses.
:dealwithit:
 

DemonKing

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I bought LOL1 recently off GOG and for an early 90s era game it's actually held up quite well. Unfortunately I got hit by a bug and couldn't get pat the Draracle's cave...
 

Eggs is eggs

Learned
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LoL is a great game. Maybe it hasn't aged that well but it had great graphics, great music/sound, a solid story, the automap feature was good, it was hard but not too hard. I guess if you wanted deep gameplay you won't find that, but Westwood took the EoB style gameplay, ditched the D&D license and polished it.
 

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