Vapourware Lays of Evenheart - Vapourware

[Aemar]

Best of luck with your game! Just finished playing the demo. Very interesting concept, looking forward to see more content.

 

[JarlFrank]

But... you are creating a new game genre/type. That is a risky move.
There is a reason why game developer clone old and known genres. Because those genres were perfected before them. They passed "natural selection".

That is a fallacy.

As an indie, it is much better to make a game that sticks out from the crowd than to make yet another clone of a well-trodden genre that has been done by bigger companies with more resources a dozen times before.

If you make a clone of popular games, you need to compete with everything from that genre.
It's ok if your genre is heavy on the content. Make a clone of Baldur's Gate 2 - sure, as long as your story and quest design and encounter design are good, that's gonna work out.
But if you make a clone of a systems-heavy genre, you need to make something unique or people will have no reason to play your game.
If you clone Civilization, there's already 6 games in the Civ series, there's a ton of mods for Civ 4, there's several Civ clones with various pros and cons to them, and then there's your game...

Why should people play your Civ clone out of all the existing alternatives? What does it do that makes it stick out from the crowd?

If you make something new that hasn't been done in this particular way before, you definitely give people a reason to play your game: it offers an experience no other game offers.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

But... you are creating a new game genre/type. That is a risky move.
There is a reason why game developer clone old and known genres. Because those genres were perfected before them. They passed "natural selection".

That is a fallacy.

As an indie, it is much better to make a game that sticks out from the crowd than to make yet another clone of a well-trodden genre that has been done by bigger companies with more resources a dozen times before.

If you make a clone of popular games, you need to compete with everything from that genre.
It's ok if your genre is heavy on the content. Make a clone of Baldur's Gate 2 - sure, as long as your story and quest design and encounter design are good, that's gonna work out.
But if you make a clone of a systems-heavy genre, you need to make something unique or people will have no reason to play your game.
If you clone Civilization, there's already 6 games in the Civ series, there's a ton of mods for Civ 4, there's several Civ clones with various pros and cons to them, and then there's your game...

Why should people play your Civ clone out of all the existing alternatives? What does it do that makes it stick out from the crowd?

If you make something new that hasn't been done in this particular way before, you definitely give people a reason to play your game: it offers an experience no other game offers.

I would much rather play an Indie game that tries something new. Than dig my hand into the sea of indie games that all try to be chink DMC clones or Survival games.

Anyways, this game actually looks properly up my alley. I will be watching it with great interest. I love the idea of a more open Crusader Kings with a bit more meat on it.

 

[Pink Eye]

Some times, enemies would get stuck on their turn - preventing me from acting, refreshing seemed to fix the issue though. Other times, stuff like this would occur:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/3pwd4lq9bvalaow/bandicam_2021-02-20_23-13-11-453.avi/file

I swear we killed that bug... thanks for bringing this to my attention!

>Ability to skip turns
It'd be great if I could skip my unit's turn, and let them act later. Sometimes you get a turn where you can't do anything.

For a few days I messed around with a visual turn queue that you could delay your turn with, exactly like in Pathfinder Kingmaker. I couldn't get it working and I figured it could be put on the backburner. I'm also considering not letting the player delay their turn since the AI can't either. The player already has a lot of advantages such as an actual brain.

>Overwatch/Ready vs
I think melee units and ranged units would benefit greatly from this feature. Basically, if an enemy moves onto a designated square. Your ranged units will get a free shot on it, vice versa for melee units.

I have an ability planned called Prepare against approach for meele units. It costs 4 AP, when activiated if an enemy enters your adjacency they receive an attack of opportunity from you. I'll put this in v4 since you recommended it. Also let me know if you think this should be implemented a different way.

>I have an ability planned called Prepare against approach for meele units. It costs 4 AP, when activiated if an enemy enters your adjacency they receive an attack of opportunity from you. I'll put this in v4 since you recommended it. Also let me know if you think this should be implemented a different way.
Yeah, that sounds like a good compromise for melee units. I think you have the right idea on how it should be implemented. Will you be doing another combat oriented demo?

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Demo doesn't want to load, shows "indirect call to null" message.

 

[Tavernking]

God bless you. But a thought: if you're going the whole hog with this kind of simulationist approach (love the wounds, etc., stuff! ) shouldn't you have some sort of training system?

Yes this is planned for the life-sim aspect of the game, and it's like you've somehow stolen my dev notes because everything you just suggested is what I've been planning to do for ages. The player will have a hard time training for combat unless they're in the upper classes because they need leisure time, peasants can still end up strong which helps in combat (but not as much as training actual combat skills), and I plan for training only to boost you to an intermediate skill level. To level up beyond that point you need real combat experience, and real combat experience levels up your combat skills much faster than training.

 

[Tavernking]

Yeah, that sounds like a good compromise for melee units. I think you have the right idea on how it should be implemented. Will you be doing another combat oriented demo?

Definitely, the feedback I get from them (not just on the codex) is invaluable.

Demo doesn't want to load, shows "indirect call to null" message.

Try swapping browsers otherwise I have no idea.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

You need a combat speed slider. This is slower than battle brothers.

 

[Pink Eye]

You need a combat speed slider. This is slower than battle brothers.

Thanks for checking his game, lmao. Did you beat it yet? Anyways, like I was saying, I'm telling you man. This game has potential to be really good.

 

[Tavernking]

Best to rip off this bandaid earlier than later, Lays of Lontherel is being delayed and replaced with Lays of Evenheart.

There were many impressive features planned concerning the politics/economy/technological advances of the game world, but the project scope has grown to such a level that it's impossible for me to undertake unless I take the Dwarf Fortress / Ultima Ratio Regum route of spending a decade on the game in my spare time. I'd rather try my hand at trying to release smaller titles, create a fanbase, and gradually build the series up to that level. Hopefully one day make it my full time job.

I haven't talked about these impressive features, so there's nothing to be disappointed by. Lays of Evenheart will still have all the features in the original post of this thread.

Why not just remove the features and keep the same name? Lays of Lontherel is a project I've been worldbuilding and designing for the past 7 years. It's not easy for me to just scrap features, I'd rather take the player to a new part of the world instead - Evenheart. Lays of Lontherel will be my dream game and one day I'll make it!

 

[AdolfSatan]

Adjusting and setting realistic goals is a skill many struggle developing, so cheers for that! Hopefully a good game will come out of this; I'm still holding until there's a more feature-complete demo before giving it a try.

PS Evenheart is a shit name. Have you tried saying it out loud? It sounds dumb.

 

[Tavernking]

We are proud, we men of Evenheart and Hearthstead. Descendants of the Athalao, we have adapted since we were forced out of our homes and left for the far west. We have had to adapt, for we are surrounded by beasts, dwarves and corrupted elves. From one frozen hellscape to another, we haven’t known anything but the cold since our ancestors fled Athalaos 700 years ago as it froze over.

Towards the northern mountains is the dwarven kingdom of Dhern and the city of Thelvedell - refuge of the dark elves. The Dwarves cannot be trusted, their greed knows no bounds. They claim all of the cold lands, and demanded tribute when we first came here. Through war and diplomacy, we have achieved a spiteful neutrality with them, but they will wage war again the moment we drop our guard. The dark elves, corrupted by forbidden magic, are full of malice and jealously. They bide their time, building their numbers and await the day when they can force their cruel demands upon the world. Then there are those elves that aren’t corrupted, descendants of failed colonists that were dying en masse when our ancestors first arrived. This is no suitable land for elves but with our help some of them have made this place their home.

At the heart of the principality of Evenheart is the capital city of the same name. Despite his influence, the Prince of Evenheart holds no real power in government - that duty lies with the Council of Fifty. This council is derived from the wealthiest patricians of Evenheart and unites all human settlements in these lands excluding some barbarian tribes. The foundation of this nation is the united power of Evenheart and Hearthstead. Hearthstead began as a rest stop for passing travellers desiring a warm place to hide away from the cold on their travels, it grew into a trading post, then a town, then an entire city. Life is harsh in these parts, but we have endured. Our optimism for our future comes from the fact that we have faced trials in the past, and always prevailed.

 

[Funkified Chicken]

I like the idea, but I am unconvinced by the title. The sound of it is woefully generic. If I saw it on Steam, I'd think it of it as an another Chinese shovelware just going by the title.

 

[Sweeper]

You have successfully shilled your game to me and have piqued my interest.
How long until it's done?

 

[Tavernking]

You have successfully shilled your game to me and have piqued my interest.
How long until it's done?

Combat demo v4 will be out in July. The full game... longer than that.

 

[Ularis Badler]

It's looking good! I would brofist you but I'm unable to do so.

 

[Tavernking]

A very nuanced update but one I love to write about - demographics. For those who don't know I am using Medieval Demographics Made Easy by S. John Ross to make a more realistic and authentic world. The Principality of Evenheart encompasses a physical area of 128,853 sq miles - about the size of modern-day Germany. The game world is bigger than that - but we're focusing on Evenheart and not their Dwarven and Dark Elf neighbours whom you can visit in the game.

Humans only arrived in these lands 700 years ago, although dwarves, elves and even halflings once lived here - so expect to find ancient ruins belonging to them. Since colonising these lands, the human population has increased to a million. There will be 1 major city, 2 other cities, 28 towns, 25 active castles and 7 ruined castles. Similar to real medieval demographics - over 90% of the population live in rural villages.

There are some 5000 villages in Evenheart. It feels wrong for a village to take up a whole tile though, it ruins the untamed wilderness journeying aspect of the game if every few tiles is a village offering food and a bed. This will be worse for future games set in more population-dense places like the Holy Roman Empire or medieval France…. Where you would see a village practically every single tile. The only solution I can see is to turn finding villages into a common random wilderness event. Villages can be tiny, sometimes only with a population of 20 peasants - why should they take up a whole tile?

Now I am going to shut up until combat demo v4 is released

 

[Ularis Badler]

A very nuanced update but one I love to write about - demographics. For those who don't know I am using Medieval Demographics Made Easy by S. John Ross to make a more realistic and authentic world. The Principality of Evenheart encompasses a physical area of 128,853 sq miles - about the size of modern-day Germany. The game world is bigger than that - but we're focusing on Evenheart and not their Dwarven and Dark Elf neighbours whom you can visit in the game.

Humans only arrived in these lands 700 years ago, although dwarves, elves and even halflings once lived here - so expect to find ancient ruins belonging to them. Since colonising these lands, the human population has increased to a million. There will be 1 major city, 2 other cities, 27 towns, 5 active castles in the wilderness and 5 ruined castles in the wilderness (which the player can restore). Similar to real medieval demographics - over 90% of the population live in rural villages.

There are some 5000 villages in Evenheart. It feels wrong for a village to take up a whole tile though, it ruins the untamed wilderness journeying aspect of the game if every few tiles is a village offering food and a bed. This will be worse for future games set in more population-dense places like the Holy Roman Empire or medieval France…. Where you would see a village practically every single tile. The only solution I can see is to turn finding villages into a common random wilderness event. Villages can be tiny, sometimes only with a population of 20 peasants - why should they take up a whole tile?

Now I am going to shut up until combat demo v4 is released

That's very interesting! I always recommend shooting for realism, for as long it doesn't compromise game play mechanics. When do you think v4 will happen?

 

[Tavernking]

That's very interesting! I always recommend shooting for realism, for as long it doesn't compromise game play mechanics. When do you think v4 will happen?

July is the plan.
Lots of improvements regarding v3 feedback, ranged combat overhaul with AI functionality, larger battlefields you can zoom in and out of.

 

[laclongquan]

A very nuanced update but one I love to write about - demographics. For those who don't know I am using Medieval Demographics Made Easy by S. John Ross to make a more realistic and authentic world. The Principality of Evenheart encompasses a physical area of 128,853 sq miles - about the size of modern-day Germany. The game world is bigger than that - but we're focusing on Evenheart and not their Dwarven and Dark Elf neighbours whom you can visit in the game.

Humans only arrived in these lands 700 years ago, although dwarves, elves and even halflings once lived here - so expect to find ancient ruins belonging to them. Since colonising these lands, the human population has increased to a million. There will be 1 major city, 2 other cities, 27 towns, 5 active castles in the wilderness and 5 ruined castles in the wilderness (which the player can restore). Similar to real medieval demographics - over 90% of the population live in rural villages.

There are some 5000 villages in Evenheart. It feels wrong for a village to take up a whole tile though, it ruins the untamed wilderness journeying aspect of the game if every few tiles is a village offering food and a bed. This will be worse for future games set in more population-dense places like the Holy Roman Empire or medieval France…. Where you would see a village practically every single tile. The only solution I can see is to turn finding villages into a common random wilderness event. Villages can be tiny, sometimes only with a population of 20 peasants - why should they take up a whole tile?

Now I am going to shut up until combat demo v4 is released

Before you worry about a village claiming an entire tile, worry about something much more real: loading the entire 5000 villages of it in worldmap.

I suggest most of those 5000 is background detail, kinda a tile named "village", instead of an actual location: you see a tile Village A47 there but you dont meet NPC or deal with quest, you just stay on that tile and enjoy the buff "camping on the village's guest shack". Which village can be interacted is something real and more present than the lots of it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Does this game have elven wenches?
Can I have sex with the elven wenches?

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Does this game have elven wenches?
Can I have sex with the elven wenches?

I think this should be the centerpiece of this game. Especially elven wizard wenches.

 

[Tavernking]

Messing around with interiors, bears, idle animations, etc.

 

[Pink Eye]

Looks cool, bro.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Messing around with interiors, bears, idle animations, etc.

Looks comfy. Needs fewer pixels though for maximum soul.