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Let's bathe in the Pool of Radiance - 14 - Kobold Massacre

Fafnir

Liturgist
Patron
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
874
Location
Sweden
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Pussycat669 said:
This looks a lot less stressful than I thought it would. Or do you just make it look easy?
He makes it look easy. Shed much hair,tears and blood myself. :retarded:
 

korenzel

Educated
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
278
So far, the encounters haven't been much challenge. Sleep is able to deal with the large numbers of enemies quite well, and we have five magic users in the party. This is bound to change as monsters gain resistance or immunity.

-------------------------------------------

UPDATE 4 - Trolls

Let's resume exploring the slums.

QX7Ui.png


In a room to the east, some goblin guards are alerted.

cCXTl.png


There's a lot of them.

eDBem.png


Ten leaders with bows and twelve normal ones.

oUEUj.png


Pariah tries to put the leaders to sleep, but the range of the spell is very limited.
Too limited to reach the packs of leaders.
Since canceling the spell would waste it, he casts it at some normal guards.

g2ili.png


Excidium doesn't last long against the barrage of arrows from the north.
He at least had the decency to get to zero hit point, so we don't have to heal or stabilize him.

fU8yw.png


After many rounds of mopping up, the remaining monsters start to flee.

5kSdS.png


The party is pretty beat up.

AjU84.png


Using the cure spells of the clerics to bring everyone back up, our adventurers explore further.
Some messages pass automatically without waiting for <Enter>/<Return>, and even with low cycles they can be hard to read or capture in time.

ZjTxj.png


Whatever we found under that floorboard, it was hiding treasure!

MC7Uc.png


Good money here, enough to train a level and more depending on the value of the gems.

C7kOx.png


As well as a magic shield and a scroll with magic missile!

PjTSm.png


Back in town for a little rest, we sell our loot.
The merchant offers quite a lot for the unidentified magic Chain Mail .

8rBlv.png


Identifying it doesn't change the price, it's good to know.

XEW5o.png


Overall, we made nearly eight hundred platinum, enough for four training sessions.

T86vN.png


Godfrey raises quickly in levels, getting to three before everyone else.

aFQJI.png


We also train Excidium to level two.

Gxwzn.png


And are offered a list of spells to choose from, handy as there's no scroll shop in town.
Excidium learns Charm Person.

7hpvw.png


Pariah's long overdue thief training is done as well.

niPPG.png


Godfrey can now cast level two divine magic.
Silence can be useful against magic users, and so is Resist Fire.

i23pm.png


Since we've mostly been fighting humanoids, he memorizes two Hold Person spells and one Slow Poison just in case.

khzfu.png


Excidium makes use of his second spell slot to try out the new Charm Person.

P8y6k.png


And Pariah copies magic missile to his spellbook.

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Here's where the party stands after the level ups.
Godfrey got a good amount of hit points to compensate his bad roll at level two.
Excidium got almost the maximum.
Pariah... didn't have such luck.

8KsR0.png


Back in the slums, we enter the southern region, which turned out to be the rope guild.

1dSJS.png


Ominous... but the halls are completely empty.

bOqeu.png


Heading east, we find a shop.

1DSLK.png


Hmm, weren't we asked to fetch something a long time ago ?

UMSe8.png


Right, there was this magician whose door we bashed open, Ohlo.

us1Qe.png


That did the trick. He hands the party a package but our characters are too lawful to even take a look at it.

pg8Qa.png


In a back alley of the rope guild, far to the west, the band of adventurers makes a nasty encounter.

yhgmZ.png


Two ogres, and some green monsters who are revealed to be trolls.

Adventurers Journal said:
Troll, challenge rating VI
These are large, strong, ugly humanoids. They know no fear and can regenerate wounds.

Challenge rating six... And there's four of them...

jnNEg.png


Godfrey ties to cast Hold Person.

nFVML.png


It fails on all targets.

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Excidium attempts to charm one Ogre.

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It fails, and the troll brings down Edward in two consecutive hits, each for seven or eight damage!

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The party concentrates fire on the troll in our reach, and Godfrey takes position to block more from attacking.
Then, arrows are fired to bring down the trolls behind the ogres, who aren't much of a threat.

XB0K9.png


Everything goes smoothly until the ogres decide to surrender and disappear!
Our line of defense is no gone.

nhLCV.png


Thankfully, the remaining trolls, "who know no fear", flee in panic.

flixj.png


Last one to bring down, and the battle is ours.

ZFeCU.png


Of course, everyone decides it's time to miss.

gRDqv.png


And one of the trolls we brought down grins and gets back up, at full health, right next to Excidium...

zi6WC.png


Excidium is killed outright from the attacks.
Another troll wakes up, and brings down Bloodfist.

Wuu1z.png


Godfrey is killed by the northern troll, and Pariah dies after a most severe blow.

d7RCK.png


Well... that's it.
 

Azira

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
8,519
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
Codex 2012
:bravo: M: :salute:

Bloody amazing old chap!

Now, we know you posted something about poison earlier, so we also know you reloaded a save. :smug: Have at it! :love:
 

MMXI

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
2,196
korenzel said:
T86vN.png


Godfrey raises quickly in levels, getting to three before everyone else.
:incline:

korenzel said:
Rqdzf.png


Here's where the party stands after the level ups.
Godfrey got a good amount of hit points to compensate his bad roll at level two.
Excidium got almost the maximum.
Pariah... didn't have such luck.
Looks like I rolled a 6. Not bad at all.
:incline:

korenzel said:
d7RCK.png


Well... that's it.
You are NOT playing ironman. Reload motherfucker!
:decline:
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
13,696
Location
Third World
A single class Wizard has the second highest HP of the party. :lol:

I thought the party really had that troll encounter...maybe if our casters had more luck with the charm and hold spells.
 

korenzel

Educated
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
278
Crooked Bee said:
You know, "trolls" is a very appropriate name for this update. :roll:
I'm glad you liked it.

DramaticPopcorn said:
And this is why you should level your Mage to lvl 3 first. And win that encounter by spamming stinking clouds.
I managed to win it without using the spell, oddly enough. Those large monsters are easy to kite in corridors.

Excidium said:
A single class Wizard has the second highest HP of the party. :lol:

I thought the party really had that troll encounter...maybe if our casters had more luck with the charm and hold spells.
The HP situation isn't about to end, as you'll see. Charm and Hold Person have so far been a major disappointment, they rarely work on anything worthy of them, like monsters immune to Sleep.

SoupNazi said:
This would have never happened if Soup was there.
Soup's still waiting on the docks, but as the party gains power the means to pay for resurrection get also within our reach, although not quite yet.

----------------------------------

UPDATE 5 - Level Up

When we last left off :

ZpUTM.png


We won't let these trolls enjoy their victory for long.

0AMAO.png


The party repeats its previous tactic, that seemed to work well enough.
The first troll is brought down without killing anyone this time, so our odds are better.
Bloodfist equips the Arrows +1 to deal a little bit of extra damage.

fPPWO.png


Since trolls regenerate, the archers slowly whittle down their hit points until they each have less than ten before killing any of them.
It takes a while and many, many arrows since trolls also regenerate when still alive, about five hit points every other turn.

mgQOF.png


As before, the ogres eventually surrender and the trolls start to flee. I make sure to follow Metro's advice and camp the bodies of the fallen green monsters to prevent them from springing back up.

Cri6n.png


Edward R Murrow deals the final killing blow.

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We receive an appropriately large amount of experience.

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Not much gold though, this will hardly pay for the training we have to do.

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At least we got a magic necklace which doesn't seem to do anything when equipped, and some scrolls.

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We head back to Ohlo to give him his potion.

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A message tells the party that he seems to become younger and stronger.
Hopefully we won't have to face him in the future.
He rewards as well as he promised, with a lot more experience.

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More platinum and jewelry, enough to pay for at least one training session.

bKmLb.png


And also some magic bracers (same as Excidium's) for Pariah.

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Heading back to the council clerk to see if we've cleared the slums.
There are no random encounters any more, and I think we've explored everything.

uZR59.png


Looks like our adventurers did it!

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More experience !

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A decent reward in money as well, but no items.

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The party is also given a new quest in Podal Plaza, but it looks like we'll have to go through Kuto's Well to get there.
Sounds like an infiltration mission, does this game feature stealth mechanics ?

XsLhM.png


The necklace is identified and revealed to be a necklace of missiles.
I suppose it fires magic missiles when used, can be useful to disrupt enemy mages.

P0jxN.png


We don't need the magic leather armor anymore, as the bracers are better.
The money will be sorely needed for the upcoming training sessions.

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Our jewelry sells for quite a lot of platinum.

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Even more money.

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This one was pretty cheap.

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With a total of one thousand six hundred platinum in Godfrey's purse, we head for the trainer.
That's enough to afford eight training sessions, and we have ten level-up to do.
Thief levels are postponed for now, as it seems the least useful class to level.

6lNPU.png


Godfrey gets ever closer to the maximum cleric level (six).

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Bee-chan begins to catch up.

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Edward R Murrow earns a second first level spell.

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And Excidium a new second level spell!

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From the descriptions in the manual, it sounds like Stinking Cloud is the most useful.
It makes foes helpless just as Sleep does, but doesn't have the immunities of the latter.

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Pariah earns his second level of magic user.

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Bee-chan advances her fighting training.

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Edward R Murrow does the same.

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And Bloodfist becomes even more deadly with a bow.

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Excidium memorizes and casts a Read Magic spell to see what our looted scrolls contain.
Some high level spells in there. Protection from Evil, ten feet radius sounds especially useful.
We'll hoard them until a mage can scribe and cast them, or if they are needed in a particularly difficult encounter.

QtfFn.png


Here's a view of the party's current hit points.
Multi-Class characters are really screwed in this department, they have less hp than Excidium.
The party's wealth has dwindled, we're now down to seventeen platinum.

Next time, we head to the Sokal Keep.
 

MMXI

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
2,196
korenzel said:
QtfFn.png


Here's a view of the party's current hit points.
Not bad. A 4 this time. That's an 8, 1, 6 and 4. Averages out to 4.75. That's 0.25 above the 4.5 average per level. Though I guess that's only due to forcing maximum health at level 1.

Still, :incline:


Edward_R_Murrow said:
I suppose it fires magic missiles when used, can be useful to disrupt enemy mages.

Better than that. Fireballs if it's the same as 2nd Edition's Necklace of Missiles.
One of the best items in Baldur's Gate.


korenzel said:
Next time, we head to the Sokal Keep.
MORE!
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
13,696
Location
Third World
So much money, gone so quickly. :(

At least we're much stronger now.

I bet the next dungeon will be full of undead immune to stinking cloud. :M
 

korenzel

Educated
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
278
juggernaut said:
My turn for rolling low hp :( How does constitution work in this version of D&D?
A very good question. I guess it's time to dig up the old rulebooks, which I managed to find after a little time.

On the matter of equipment restrictions :

Players Handbook said:
Character Class Table II, Armor and Weapons permitted
Class - Armor - Shield - Weapon - Oil - Poison
Cleric - Any - Any - club, flail, hammer, mace, staff - yes - never
Fighter - Any - Any - Any - yes - ?
Magic-User - None - None - dagger, dart, staff - yes - ?
Thief - Leather - None - club, dagger, dart, sling, one-handed sword - yes - ?

So far, the game is accurate, a similar table can be found in the adventurer's journal, although there's apparently no oil or poison available.

Players Handbook said:
The Multi-Classed Character

The game assumes that only non- or semi-human characters can be
multi-classed, and only certain class combinations are possible, depending
on the race of the character. Although these are listed in the section
dealing with each race of character, multi-class character possibilities are
also shown below in order to aid in selection of your character's class or
multi-class. Cleric combinations (with fighter types) may use edged
weapons.

Cleric/Fighter: This combination is strong in defensive and revitalization
capabilities, plus the offensive missile and melee combat power of the
fighter. Hit points average will be good. Half-elves and half-orcs may be
cleric/fighters.

Cleric/Fighter/Magic-user: One of the best of the multi-class options, this
gives good offensive and defensive spell capability plus the fighter's
melee combat strength. Half-elves may be cleric/fighter/magic-users.

Cleric/Magic-user: This combination gives the character a great variety
and selection of spells, as well as the use of armor and more weapons. Hit
points are somewhat better than those of the magic-user class alone.
Half-elves may be cleric/magic-users.

Cleric/thief: This is a combination of classes which gives both defensive
and stealth potential. Hit points are improved with regard to the thief class
only. As with all thief class combinations, however, any functions as a thief
are under the restrictions of that class with regard to armor, i.e. only
leather armor and no shield. Half-orcs may be cleric/thieves.

Fighter/Magic-user: Obviously, this combination allows excellent armor
protection, the use of weaponry, and spells. Hit points are good on the
average (5% + 2% = 8 + 2 = 4 hit points per double-classed level). Elves
and half-elves may be fighter/magic-users.

Fighter/thief: By combining these two classes- the armor, weapons, and
combat capabilities of the fighter with the stealth and other abilities of the
thief - a very effective character is created, even though thieving
functions restrict the character to leather armor and no shield. Hit points
are good. Dwarves, elves, gnomes, half-elves, halflings, and half-orcs may
be fighter/thieves.

Fighter/Magic-user/Thief: Combat, spell, and stealth capabilities are
given to the character who opts this multi-class combination. This is a very
powerful mix. Hit points are good (5% + 2% + 3% = 11% + 3 = 4) on
the average. Elves and half-elves may be fighter/magic-user/thieves.

Magic-user/Thief: This combination does not offer all of the options open
to a fighter/magic-user/thief, but advancement is usually more rapid.
Average hit points are fair, i.e. 3 per level. Elves and half-elves may be
magic-user/thieves.

So far, it's also accurate. Thief abilities seem reduced to backstabbing, and they indeed do not work unless one wears leather armor or nothing at all.

Now, onto the matter of hit points:

Players Handbook said:
Constitution Table
Score - Hit point adjustment - System Shock survival - Resurrection survival
15 - +1 - 91% - 94%
16 - +2 - 95% - 96%
17 - +2 (+3*) - 97% - 98%
18 - +2 (+4*) - 99% - 100%

*:Bonus applied only to fighters

Players Handbook said:
Class - Hit Dice - Maximum Hit Dice
Cleric - d8 - 9
Fighter - d10 - 9
Magic-User - d4 - 11
Thief - d6 - 10

Notes Regarding Character Classes Table I.:

Class of Character is self-explanatory. Multi-classes have been omitted,
but certain facts pertaining to them are given hereafter.

Hit Dice Type shows the type of die to be rolled by a character of the
appropriate class at each level of experience (q.v.) he or she has gained
so as to determine how many hit points (q.v.) the character has. Multiclassed
characters determine their hit points as follows:

Roll the hit die (or dice) appropriate to each class the character is
professing.

Total the sum of all dice so rolled, and adjust for constitution (q.v.).
Divide the total by the character's classes (two or three), dropping
fractions under 1/2, rounding fractions of 1/2 or greater upwards to the
next whole number.

The number derived (quotient) is the number of hit points the
multi-classed character gains with the rise in that experience level.

Using Bloodfist as an example, with 18 constitution, each class level gives him :

fighter : (d10+4)/3 = (5-14)/3 = 2-5 hit points
magic-user : (d4+2)/3 = (3-6)/3 = 1-2 hit points
thief : (d6+2)/3 = (3-8)/3 = 1-3 hit points

Note that due to rounding, the distribution is no longer uniform. For fighter levels, Bloodfist only has 10% chances to get 5 hit points, instead of 25% as one could expect.

Now, the game apparently uses a different formula, as maxing out Bloodfist's hit points on level one only permitted me to raise them to eight, instead of the ten he should be able to reach. Since dealing with integers usually means all fractions are dropped, let's consider that possibility. it would give :

fighter : (d10+4)/3 = (5-14)/3 = 1-4 hit points
magic-user : (d4+2)/3 = (3-6)/3 = 1-2 hit points
thief : (d6+2)/3 = (3-8)/3 = 1-2 hit points

Which would indeed total to eight maximum hit points on level one.

Unless the game keeps tracks of each individual hp roll and adds them up before the division, multi class character are even more screwed with hit points than I thought.
 

juggernaut

Educated
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
234
Location
Australia
Hmm, so I chose the worst combination possible for hp, and could actually have rolled 1 hp instead of 2 :o I thought my con bonus would ensure a few but didn't realise how the multi-classing worked. Plate +5 please! :M
 

korenzel

Educated
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
278
You'd only have 10% chances to roll a one, quite unlikely. Despair not, the game does keep track of unused fractions in some way, since your character just earned six hp from a level of thief and magic-user, which would be impossible otherwise.

--------------------------------------

UPDATE 6 - Sokal Keep

When we last left off, the party was looking for gold to pay overpriced training fees.

Je95X.png


Their way leads to the docks, and the only location reachable by boat, the Sokal Keep.

ph7Q4.png


A few steps towards the door and a skeleton is found, the dead kind.

LOuiP.png


The party searches for anything of value.

hiMqM.png


Great, elvish runes...

A careful use of the code-wheel later, the parchment is revealed to contain :

LUX
SHESTNI
SAMOSUD

hNl7L.png


Moving on to the main gates, the castle looks still inhabited.

0eV47.png


By skeletons, the undead kind, and some zombies.

Adventurers Journal said:
Skeleton, challenge rating I
These are the least of the undead. These animated skeletons are usually controlled by some evil force.

Zombie, challenge rating IV
Magically animated corpses controlled by an evil force. Zombies always fight back until destroyed or turned.

Skeletons are rebuked easily by our two clerics, and the zombies are very easy to hit and therefore don't stand long in our way.
Of course, no gold among the remains and pathetic experience.

VaOFV.png


Exploring the western ramparts, our adventurers stumble on some insects.

GaoGF.png


These turn out to be huge scorpions.
There's no Huge Scorpion entry in the Adventurers Journal, but there's this :

Adventurers Journal said:
Giant Scorpion, challenge rating VI
These are the giant version of the common scorpion. Its poisonous tail can kill a man.

This looks nasty. Excidium is about to unleash a Stinking Cloud, but the spell's pathetic range (two or three squares) means I have to cancel it, as our own party members would be rendered helpless and the northern scorpion unaffected.

What could have happened said:
ZyauG.png


Godfrey is hit. Poison enters his system and he dies immediately, without any chance to cast Slow Poison on himself.

8N56I.png


Getting back in town, the remaining members seek a healer.

lhViG.png


Prices are anything but affordable...

duykR.png


The Necklace of Missiles is sold for eight thousand gold.

dm4Mc.png


And Godfrey is brought back... but with a little too many hit points.

The scorpions are killed without anyone getting hit by their poisonous tails.

vaKpP.png


Nearby is a room with some fungus, but nothing else of note.

uSXqB.png


Great, more rot and refuse. At least we seem to have cleared the place of undead.

tWX0i.png


Exploring the eastern part now, some frog are heard.

DBIcw.png


They're poisonous ! But they have high armor class, next to no hit points and are far away.
A volley of arrows kills them all before they even move.

isqeu.png


The party enters the keep's armory. A careful search reveals nothing.

fyCJh.png


Circling back to the northwestern corner, more abandoned buildings are explored.

Ut2nG.png


We get ambushed by some haunts, but initiating combat only leads to them wailing.

EY0xW.png


As Bee-chan tries to parlay, the game asks for a single word.
Errr.... LUX ?

5OT0D.png


It seems to work, as the apparitions start talking.

9D4tO.png


A cleric bound them here, interesting.

HOmlB.png


Ah, a journal entry, our very first.

Adventurers Journal said:
Entry 3

An old leather-bound book, written with a small, firm hand.
'The hordes came again last night. Their coordination was frightening. Under the cover of darkness, goblins and kobolds pushes bundles of sticks to within bow range. These bundles formed a wall that protected the small ones from our archers. Once the wall was erected orc archers took up safe positions there and began pelting the castle walls with arrows.
'We tried shooting flaming arrows at the wall of sticks to set it afire. Monsters are normally afraid of fire. But these monsters showed no fear. They simply scooped dirt on the flames to put them out. Before all the fire were out they had resumed firing at us. Surely, some unnatural force must have been at work to weld these quarrelsome beasts into an organized fighting force.
'I do not know if we can combat the monsters' onslaught much longer. We lost twelve more men last night. The monsters seem to have an unlimited number of reinforcements. The Last Priest of Tyr, Ferran Martinez, says he has a way to protect the keep, but he says that it's so terrible that it may only be used as a last resort. Unless we receive reinforcements shortly, Ferran Martinez is our only hope.

The story begins to make sense. It looks like the priest's solution was to raise the fallen fighters as undead servants to fight off the monsters. We haven't encountered anything but undead so far, so the plan seems to have succeeded, but Phlan fell nonetheless.

Nb1xu.png


I take that back, there's an army of orcs and hobgoblins right next to the central room.

jDdfz.png


If there's one thing this game likes to throw at our party, it's large numbers.

mFWT4.png


About forty enemies to kill in this battle, this could get ugly.

raJYY.png


Our adventurers retreat to the northeast and set up a defensive line, allowing archers to unleash arrows while monsters are unable to surround them.

C0aFP.png


After about half of them die, the rest just surrenders.

yEb2c.png


A note is found :

Adventurers Journal said:
Entry 57
A ratty piece of parchment with large writing on one side.
'Our spies in the city inform us that a party of invaders will travel to Sokal Keep to free it. To combat these invaders, assemble a force of no less than three squads. Travel by boat from the small docks at the west of town to Thorn Island. Move undetected to Sokal Keep. Find the adventurers in or around Sokal Keep. Kill them before they can return to the city council with information about the true situation at the keep. Return with the invader's heads as proof of completion of your mission. Upon completion you will be rewarded with food, treasure and many slaves.
Signed,
The Boss

Our party members made a lasting impression on the local leadership! 'The Boss' wants them dead.

ybnhx.png


Entering the central room.

PSUYY.png


The party approaches the altar in the center, and a ghostly figure appears.

BAVI0.png


Again, it wants us to speak a word. Let's try LUX again.

VGSQT.png


It works, and the ghost reveals he is the Last Priest of Tyr, Ferran Martinez.
We tell the truth about the city's demise and its infested status.

9nakH.png


The ghost acknowledges it, and reveals three names.
Tyranthraxus, Edranka and Torath apparently used a pool to make monsters more intelligent.
Could it have been the Pool of Radiance ?

i6X7l.png


Mendor may have known more, interesting. There's a library with his name not far from the slums.

BQgr2.png


Then the ghost reveals a hidden passage in the northeast armory.
He also tells us a password for the undead guards, but I think we've killed them all anyway.

b3FMx.png


Martinez didn't lie, there is a hidden passage.

VC7f6.png


There isn't much of value, apart from some equipment in the northwest corner.

dunne.png


A magic shield, long sword, chain mail and mace, nice.
Equipping the items, they are revealed to be a Shield +1, a Long Sword +1, a Chain Mail +1 and a Mace +2.
Godfrey gets both the shield and the mace, Pariah gets the long sword, and the armor will be sold.

6eA0E.png


Returning to the city clerk, our mission is complete.

hd0aS.png


At last, some decent experience.

cwjn6.png


And a little money doesn't hurt either.

71cdU.png


A new assignment is available.

5plrk.png


This man wants us to head to the Textile Complex.

F9rRp.png


It's out of our reach for now, but we'll keep it in mind.

dHkc0.png


With decent money in their pockets, the party can finally afford training for everyone.

Bee-chan reaches the second magic-user level.
Edward R Murrow earns a third fighter level.
Bloodfist gets one level of thief and one level of magic user.
Pariah trains and raises two levels as a thief.

I overlooked a shop when I first described the city, there's also a jeweler.

IsgXa.png


She sells expensive items, probably a means to carry money without suffering the weight of the coins.

6SHVG.png


However, they only sell for half the price they're bought for. The party will keep crawling under the weight of platinum for a while longer.

Next time, the party will explore west of the slums, an area called Kuto's Well.
 

Crooked Bee

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Ewwwww.

korenzel said:
And Godfrey is brought back... but with a little too many hit points.

That's one weird stubborn bug you've got.

korenzel said:
He also tells us a password for the undead guards, but I think we've killed them all anyway.

:yeah:

korenzel said:
Bee-chan reaches the second magic-user level.

:salute:
 

Azira

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Codex 2012
Two levels of thief nets me 4 hitpoints, even though I have 16 con?...
I could've gotten double that. :decline:

Please continue dear sir! :salute:
 

MMXI

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korenzel said:
dm4Mc.png


And Godfrey is brought back... but with a little too many hit points.
A massive :incline: there.

korenzel said:
Godfrey gets both the shield and the mace, Pariah gets the long sword, and the armor will be sold.
Fuck yeah! Godfrey is a beast now. But that's the advantage of single class characters early on. Soon Godfrey's relative power will decrease until he becomes the most worthless character in the party. Though luckily that shouldn't be until after Pool of Radiance, though you'd be a fool to import these characters into Curse of the Azure Bonds anyway.
 

MMXI

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korenzel said:
Players Handbook said:
The Multi-Classed Character
Cleric/Fighter: This combination is strong in defensive and revitalization
capabilities, plus the offensive missile and melee combat power of the
fighter. Hit points average will be good. Half-elves and half-orcs may be
cleric/fighters.
Yeah. That's one of the changes in the second edition. Multi-classed clerics are restricted to the blunt weapons of a single class cleric. The rules clearly define the differences between capability and choice with regards to equipment. Classes that choose not to wield specific weapon types cannot wield those weapon types when dual/multi-classed. Classes that are not capable of wielding specific weapons will be able to to wield them when dual/multi-classing with a class that is capable.

korenzel said:
Players Handbook said:
The Multi-Classed Character
Fighter/Magic-user: Obviously, this combination allows excellent armor
protection, the use of weaponry, and spells. Hit points are good on the
average (5% + 2% = 8 + 2 = 4 hit points per double-classed level). Elves
and half-elves may be fighter/magic-users.
And this is another. Obviously you can't cast arcane/mage spells in armour in second edition.


korenzel said:
Using Bloodfist as an example, with 18 constitution, each class level gives him :

fighter : (d10+4)/3 = (5-14)/3 = 2-5 hit points
magic-user : (d4+2)/3 = (3-6)/3 = 1-2 hit points
thief : (d6+2)/3 = (3-8)/3 = 1-3 hit points

Note that due to rounding, the distribution is no longer uniform. For fighter levels, Bloodfist only has 10% chances to get 5 hit points, instead of 25% as one could expect.

Now, the game apparently uses a different formula, as maxing out Bloodfist's hit points on level one only permitted me to raise them to eight, instead of the ten he should be able to reach. Since dealing with integers usually means all fractions are dropped, let's consider that possibility. it would give :

fighter : (d10+4)/3 = (5-14)/3 = 1-4 hit points
magic-user : (d4+2)/3 = (3-6)/3 = 1-2 hit points
thief : (d6+2)/3 = (3-8)/3 = 1-2 hit points

Which would indeed total to eight maximum hit points on level one.

Unless the game keeps tracks of each individual hp roll and adds them up before the division, multi class character are even more screwed with hit points than I thought.
I don't think that's how the calculations are done. It seems to me that first edition AD&D rules suck when it comes to calculating hit points for multi-classed characters. As far as the players handbook goes, it seems that you are supposed to add the hit-dice together, then add the constitution bonus, then divide it by the number of classes. But when you add the constitution bonus once, which constitution bonus do you add for fighter multi-classes with a constitution above 16? As far as I remember, you should apparently add the fighter bonus, making constitutions of above 16 highly advantageous for fighter multi-classes. So following these guidelines:

Fighter: 1-10
Magic-User: 1-4
Thief: 1-6

Sum: 3-20

Constitution modifier: +4

Total: 7-24

Divide this by 3 and do the rounding and you get 2-8. This is 2-8 hit points for each full level across all classes. Therefore, starting out at level 1/1/1 the character should have anywhere between 2 to 8 hit points. This coincides with you getting 8 maximum.

Of course, this makes levelling up in individual classes awkward. How many hit points do you get for levelling the thief component of the class? I've skimmed through the entire player handbook and I can't see any mention of it at all. It seems to not bother about that level of precision. As long as a full level up in all constituent classes brings 2-8 hit points in total(in this case), it's all good. This would make it implementation defined.

It's still a really shitty way to do it, though. You are effectively dividing the constitution modifier by 3 for no real reason. Dividing by three only really makes sense per class. In other words, it only makes sense if it works exactly as you thought it did, adding on each class's constitution modifier to each class's hit-dice, dividing each by two or three (depending on the number of classes) and then adding them up.

I'm not sure exactly what the second edition policy is, but the Infinity Engine games calculates things nicely. It basically rolls the hit-dice for the class you've levelled up, adds on the constitution modifier as it applies to that class, divides it by 2 or 3 (depending on how many classes make up the multi-class) and adds that on to the current maximum hit points. The games seem to carry forward fractions as each multi-classed character seems to correct their hit points every couple of levels.

Still, the best way of doing it is to cut out hit dice entirely. Random permanent effects are utterly moronic in video games without a DM to stop you from reloading. It would be far better if fighters were given 5 hit points per level, clerics 4, thieves 3 and mages 2. Constitution bonuses can sit on top of them like they already do. An 18 constitution fighter should gain 9 per level, an 18 constitution cleric only 6 per level, an 18 constitution thief only 5 per level, and an 18 constitution mage only 4 per level. Dual classes can work how they've always worked, as their hit point progressions make sense (you only start gaining hit points in your new class when your old class is reactivated). Multi-classes would work by dividing them correctly, with a fractional carry over every level to prevent certain character combinations from falling behind. I guess the reason D&D didn't do this was because fractions carrying over would have been too much of a burden. Too maths heavy etc.

Anyway. More!
 

korenzel

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MMXI said:
I don't think that's how the calculations are done. It seems to me that first edition AD&D rules suck when it comes to calculating hit points for multi-classed characters. As far as the players handbook goes, it seems that you are supposed to add the hit-dice together, then add the constitution bonus, then divide it by the number of classes. But when you add the constitution bonus once, which constitution bonus do you add for fighter multi-classes with a constitution above 16? As far as I remember, you should apparently add the fighter bonus, making constitutions of above 16 highly advantageous for fighter multi-classes. So following these guidelines:

Fighter: 1-10
Magic-User: 1-4
Thief: 1-6

Sum: 3-20

Constitution modifier: +4

Total: 7-24

Divide this by 3 and do the rounding and you get 2-8. This is 2-8 hit points for each full level across all classes. Therefore, starting out at level 1/1/1 the character should have anywhere between 2 to 8 hit points. This coincides with you getting 8 maximum.
I don't know, as you said this makes individual class level ups tricky, and it's bound to happen often as none of the classes have similar experience tables.

I'm not sure exactly what the second edition policy is, but the Infinity Engine games calculates things nicely. It basically rolls the hit-dice for the class you've levelled up, adds on the constitution modifier as it applies to that class, divides it by 2 or 3 (depending on how many classes make up the multi-class) and adds that on to the current maximum hit points. The games seem to carry forward fractions as each multi-classed character seems to correct their hit points every couple of levels.

Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Players Handbook said:
The character's hit points are the average
of all his Hit Dice rolls. When the character
is first created, the player rolls hit points for
each class separately, totals them up, then
divides by the number of dice rolled (round
fractions down). Any Constitution bonus is
then added to the character's hit points. If
one of the character's classes is fighter and
he has a Constitution of 17 or 18, then he
gains the +3 or +4 Constitution bonus
available only to warriors (instead of the
+ 2 maximum available to the other character
classes).

Later the character is likely to gain levels
in different classes at different times. When
this happens, roll the appropriate Hit Die
and divide the result by the number of
classes the character has (round fractions
down, but a Hit Dice never yields less than 1
hit point). The character's Constitution bonus
is split between his classes, thus a
fighter/mage gets 1/2 of his Con bonus when
he goes up a level as a fighter and the other
1/2 of the Con bonus when he goes up a level
as a mage. A fighter/mage/thief would get
1/3 of his bonus when he goes up as a fighter
1/3 when he goes up as a mage, and the other
1/3 when he goes up as a thief.

The only fractions carried seem to be those from constitution bonuses. A three-classes character with 18 constitution would get +1 hp, +1 hp, +2 hp as he gains levels in each of his classes.
 

octavius

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Excidium said:
I thought the party really had that troll encounter...maybe if our casters had more luck with the charm and hold spells.

Luck was never a factor. Charm Person and Hold Person simply doesn't work against Ogres and Trolls, those spells only work against man sized humanoids. Against Ogres and Trolls you'd need the lvl 4-5 Charm Monsters and HoldMonsters spells.
Sleep OTOH, sometimes works on a single Ogre.
 

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