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Completed Let's kill you guys in Armoured Brigade

Discussion in 'Codex Playground' started by Dayyālu, May 27, 2020.

  1. Dayyālu Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    Inspired by ValeVelKal wonderful Firefight thread, and by my lucky finding of a working ... ehrm.... version of Armoured Brigade, after some days of tinkering I feel that we can maybe reproduce the experiment in a deadlier, more welcoming setup.

    [​IMG]

    Welcome to Armoured Brigade. What's this thing? Think Close Combat during the Cold War, but a somewhat higher level of command. If in good Vale's thread you had to command a squad, here you'll get to lead a platoon of mechanized infantry and tanks. As a game it's somewhat easy to pick up (I'd argue the interface is easier than Combat Mission) but it has some depth. Also combat is deliciously lethal , fitting to Cold War era combat between somewhat competent opponents.

    Because I've already tested this, I guess I'll leave to my readers to pick both their army and the OPFOR. Game lets you go Blue on Blue and Red on Red, so we can get that British VS French that we all dream of. Also, we'll be on the offensive, because playing defense is a tad boring for a play-by-post.

    If you want to join, post here and specify in your post

    1) ARMY

    Show Spoiler


    US
    USSR
    FINLAND
    FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY
    GERMAN DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC
    BRITAIN
    POLAND
    YUGOSLAVIA
    ITALY
    FRANCE
    BELGIUM



    2) OPFOR

    Show Spoiler


    US
    USSR
    FINLAND
    FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY
    GERMAN DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC
    BRITAIN
    POLAND
    YUGOSLAVIA
    ITALY
    FRANCE
    BELGIUM



    3) LOCATION

    Show Spoiler


    ARDENNES
    FULDA GAP
    NORTH-EAST ITALY
    NORTH GERMAN PLAIN
    SOUTH-EAST FINLAND
    MOJAVE DESERT



    4) ERA (This needs some explaining. The game goes all the way from 1965 to 1991, so I'll give you the decades. Roughly explained, newer stuff is better for NATO puppets and worse for Warpact forces)

    Show Spoiler


    1960ies
    1970ies
    1980ies
    1990ies



    5) ROLE (This is essential for what you personally want to command. I give you the chance of being Recon or Support, but be advised that's boring as mud and I'd prefer to keep it under my own NPC-like control. Armoured means tonks, Mechanized Infantry is guys in IFVs/APCs. There's also the flat Infantry option, but that's borderline useful just in defensive urban combat. Borderline.)

    Show Spoiler


    RECON
    SUPPORT (artillery, AA, flamethrowers, MGs)
    ARMOURED
    MECHANIZED INFANTRY



    Uh, I hope not to fuck this up. It's an experiment.
     
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  2. ValeVelKal Arcane

    ValeVelKal
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    Army : Glorious Belgium of course. Missing this Italy or France in that order

    OpFor : Soviet Union if Belgium, Yugoslavia if Italy or France.

    Period : 1980ies

    I wanna be mechanized infantry.


    Also, I think it won’t work as well as for Firefight because in Firefight one wrong move gets you pinned down if infantry and maybe destroyed if tanks and unlucky. In Armored Brigade, one wrong move gets you dead. But we’ll see :)
     
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  3. baud Cipher Patron

    baud
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    Location:
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Army: Poland

    OpFor: GERMAN DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC

    Location: NORTH GERMAN PLAIN

    Era: 1970ies

    Role: ARMOURED


    1975: revenge of the Poles.
     
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  4. Dayyālu Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    I entirely agree with this evaluation: Cold War combat is almost ridiculously lethal compared to WW2. I want to try to see if this can work, and if it doesn't , hey, some posters will get an idea of why it was a good idea not to start WW3.

    Nukes aside.
     
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  5. Andnjord Arcane

    Andnjord
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    Army: ITALIA IRRIDENTE!!!!!

    [​IMG]

    (awesome comic BTW, read it if you can get your mittens on it, though I have no idea what sort of barbaric translation you might have to suffer for it)

    OpFor: GDR

    Location: wotever, as long as there's tanks to blam

    Period: don't mind

    Role: [​IMG] ovviamente
     
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  6. Falksi Arcane

    Falksi
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    Army: America, fuck yeah!

    OpFor: USSR

    Location: FULDA GAP

    Era: 1990ies

    Role: ARMOURED
     
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  7. Endemic Arcane

    Endemic
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    Army: Federal Republic of Germany

    OFPOR: USSR

    Location: North German Plain

    Era: 1970s

    Role:

    [​IMG]

    (Mechanized infantry)
     
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  8. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

    Darth Roxor
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    I fully endorse this scenario
     
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  9. MoistCloister Savant

    MoistCloister
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    Army: YUGO
    OpFor: Italy
    Location: NE Italy
    Age: 60s or 70s
    Role: Mechanized
    Time to retake Trieste boys!
     
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  10. Endemic Arcane

    Endemic
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    At the moment Poland is in the lead. I'll change my vote later if there's a tie, assuming Dayyalu lets us do that.
     
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  11. Falksi Arcane

    Falksi
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    I was very tempted with Italy tbh, so wouldn't grumble if it got swapped for that.
     
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  12. Dayyālu Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    So, I'll leave this up until midnight or so and then start. If I don't get 12+ players it's even better, smaller map and more.... time to react to everything blowing up at once. Six platoons are already quite a lot to keep in control. Trust me. I'm old. I lose stuff all the time.

    ValeVeKal Mechanized Infantry
    Baud Armoured
    Andnjord Armoured
    Falksi Armoured
    Endemic Mechanized Infantry
    Moist Cloister Mechanized Infantry

    Uhn, Poland is leading the pack with two votes (Yugo, US, Belgium, Worst Germans and Ita one each). We're going to play with Gierek's kids, it seems.

    OPFOR is less confused, with Soviet Union and Deutsche Demokratische Republik leading the pack. I guess we're going to fight the big bad boys (Union has the best Warpact kit, DDR has the best morale&training).

    North German Plain, 1970ies.
     
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  13. sqeecoo Arcane

    sqeecoo
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    Sign me up as a basic grunt, mechanized or otherwise! I don't really understand the other options so I'm gonna just say YUGO!!!
     
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  14. Strange Fellow Criminal Lawn Forcement Patron

    Strange Fellow
    I Have Disgusting Opinions
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    Army: POLAND
    Opposition: POLAND


    Meh, guess it's too late to affect the result, at least in a way I'd want to. If OPFOR: Italy changes anything that'll be my vote. Fighting Germans and Russians is passé and you know it.
    I don't mind being a POLANDman though, so sign me up. Whatever you need. Siema kurwa, general.
     
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  15. tindrli Arcane

    tindrli
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    Am i late? If not sign me up. I want to be armored or support or whatever is available
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  16. Andnjord Arcane

    Andnjord
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    You're not late, just making things more FUN! for Dayyyalu.
     
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  17. Dayyālu Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    VOTE

    tindrli Your vote (and mine) may or may not be decisive for the set-up.
     
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  18. Andnjord Arcane

    Andnjord
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    Join the Red, White and Green side, we have pizza and hilarious mixes of design genius and stark incompetence!
     
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  19. ValeVelKal Arcane

    ValeVelKal
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    To be honest, the Italian army in the 70ies is not as interesting as the later (or former) Italian Army. It is mostly US & German material : M113 variants, Leopard & M47 tanks. The only thing fully Italian is probably the Fiat 6614 for troop transport and some trucks. Even the MILAN are French :).

    Starting in the 90ies, the Italian army starts to get really unique stuff - and beautiful vehicles, too :the Ariete MBT, the Dardo and Freccia IFV and the beautiful beautiful Centauro

    Fun fact : in case of war with the Soviet Union, the Portuguese were to put their troops under Italian command.
     
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  20. Andnjord Arcane

    Andnjord
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    I'll defer to you on that. As might have been obvious my forte is pre-cold war naval warfare, so I was mainly going off on stuff like the Littorio-class Battleships. Amazing guns, great fire control systems that could straddle their targets at extreme ranges in the first few salvoes, all ruined because the shell manufacturing process was so terrible and lax on its quality control that said shells would splash everywhere except on the (really accurate) firing coordinates, meaning that when british light cruisers encountered italian BBs they didn't try to run away but rather defaulted to ATTACK! ONCE MORE ONTO THE BREACH LADS!!!! and got away with it.

    But back to tanks. I know nothing about tanks and tank tactics. This is gonna be glorious.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  21. Dayyālu Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    I do agree, the peculiar stuff in the Italian Army was built fairly recently and the Cold War italian land army is an interesting representative of .... the lesser tiers of NATO armies. Meaning, M113 for everything Leopard 1 and M47/M48. Also, varied infantry for specialized roles.

    This doesn't make them less interesting for Armoured Brigade purposes, tho, they do play like a lesser tier of NATO armies and it's a interesting combination of lesser equipment, making it particularly interesting to fight WarPact forces that for once are qualitatively superior. Of course, Italian navy and air assets are a different thing, but here we're working with the land component. I can sperg a bit about the Cold War Italian army and their equipment if we get 'em, some details are amusing.

    The basic rule of Cold War combat is: if something is seen, it dies. Or it gets suppressed and it dies. This is not WW2, and we're having 75 tech with adequate training, if something is out of position it dies. Tanks may be resilient, but this is the ATGM era, get out of a treeline at the wrong moment and you're toast.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  22. ValeVelKal Arcane

    ValeVelKal
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    Yeah. In the 60ies to, well, nowadays, there is this battle between missile and armor - except that the race is not a gradual race in armor vs explosive capacity, it is a race by technological leaps where one tech fully defeats the other purpose when deployed
    In the 60, missiles were still inaccurate as they were manually controlled [MCLOS]. Suddenly in early 70, all sides started to produce missiles guided by pointing at the target while the missile is flying [SACLOS] and those don’t miss if used by a competent operator. And if they hit the tank is gone, whatever armor it has.

    The counter would be really deployed in the early 80ies - mainly reactive armor that blows up fraction of seconds before the missile hits, neutralizing the Munroe effect of HEAT missiles. And suddenly, in the early 80, tanks with ERA armor defeat whatever missile you throw at them, provided you don’t send two at the exact same location of the tank. So in the 80ies your tanks don’t fear infantry anymore...

    ... until the development of tandem charge for ATGM late 80ies, and really early/mid 90ies for reliable solutions. Basically the ATGM now has two explosive charges : first one triggers & disables the ERA, second one makes it through the armor. And now your tanks have to hide again, because if the other side has tandem missiles they are going to blow up.

    This is not all theorical : the Israeli tanks rolled totally immune in Lebanon in 1982, but 20 years in the 2006 Lebanon War they lost (full destruction or battle kill even if recoverable) quite a lot to tandem charges, even though the tanks were presumably more advanced.

    Now it looks like the tech is back on the side of the tank, with systems to either destroy the missile as it approaches (hard kill - Trophy system for Israel or Arena system for Russia) or to disable its controls (soft kill - in particular the Shtora system for Russia).

    The Ukrainians reported that the Russians T-90 were protected by “ an invisible shield” so it works and no Merkava were hit during the 2014 Gaza conflict despite a lot of missiles being sent at them, BUT neither opponents used the very latest ATGM against them so who knows.

    I am not developing other progresses on the ATGM or alternative solutions to the problem of either the attack (top-attack, ie hitting the tank where they can’t have ERA for various reasons) or on the defense (eg the French in particular dismissed ERA until 2017 and directly skipped ahead of time to a very passive soft kill system called GALIX which sends a sort of “magnetic scrambling smoke” ; stuff the Italians would buy from the French to equip their Ariete).

    To come back to the topic, the 70ies is one of those moments when ATGM rules the battlefield because they are accurate because SACLOS and they are lethal because no ERA yet so if you are seen you are dead. It is less the case in late 80ies (not taking into account planes of course). This is of course fully represented in Armored Brigade.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  23. WhiskeyWolf RPG Codex Polish Car Thief Patron

    WhiskeyWolf
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    Same.
     
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  24. tindrli Arcane

    tindrli
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    Location:
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    Army: YUGO
    OpFor: Italy
    Location: NE Italy
    Age: 90s
    Role: armored
     
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