Let's Play Dark Queen of Krynn - The fifth prophecy

[octavius]

Interesting... despite being the last Gold Box game, Dark Queen of Krynn does not seem to use the more advanced monster AI that was used in Pools of Darkness and Treasures of the Savage Frontier. That means spell casters won't move and then attack (which would have made the Dark Wizards even deadlier), nor will enemies avoid Stinking Clouds.

Aside from PWK, Cone of Cold and Cloud Kill, I'm not sure any spell can really be useful against a Dark Wizard. I suppose that Desintegrate could work, but the Wizard would have to be fairly unlucky.

I never trust luck, so Disintegrate I'd use only if desperate.
Another tactic is to cast Silence on a stationary enemy (like Bozaks or Black Rogues) next to the Dark Wizard(s). The downside is of course, as with Disintegrate, that the target gets a saving throw. But it's worth a shot if your Knight or Cleric is the first to act.


I'm now at the Lighthouse part of the game. I never understood why people hate is so much. Yes, the secret door was hard to find, but I don't recall it being that hard. And the large battle against an army of Othyugs and Beetles was one of the most memorable encounters in the game.
Personally I hated the small dungeon patrolled by endless (?) patrols of armies of high level fighters and mages. Even one of these battles left the party severely reduced and it was not easy to find a place to rest. Hawkbluff I think it was?

 

[Erebus]

Personally I hated the small dungeon patrolled by endless (?) patrols of armies of high level fighters and mages. Even one of these battles left the party severely reduced and it was not easy to find a place to rest. Hawkbluff I think it was?

There are indeed a lot of patrols and few places to rest in Hawkbluff, but almost all fights can be avoided.

 

[octavius]

WTF?!? My Kender, who is supposed to be Immune to Fear, was paralyzed by fear when encountering Mummies. Mace of Disruption doesn't do extra damage to the Mummies either.

BTW, it never ceases to amaze me how utterly pathetic the AI is in the Gold Box games if you use Quick Combat. My Knight has a Mace of Disruption and a Girdle of Giant Strength, but prefers to use a fucking Staff Sling on Vampires. Even the monsters are smarter than that.

Personally I hated the small dungeon patrolled by endless (?) patrols of armies of high level fighters and mages. Even one of these battles left the party severely reduced and it was not easy to find a place to rest. Hawkbluff I think it was?

There are indeed a lot of patrols and few places to rest in Hawkbluff, but almost all fights can be avoided.

You mean the Flee option? I've heard about that one, but never tried it.

 

[Erebus]

My Knight has a Mace of Disruption and a Girdle of Giant Strength, but prefers to use a fucking Staff Sling on Vampires. Even the monsters are smarter than that.

AI-controlled PCs seem to love ranged weapons. But the monsters aren't necessarily any better. If you check the battle in the arena in my LP, my party's facing half a dozen very powerful minotaur warriors who're easily defeated because they're rather use their puny slings than move their lazy asses and use their swords.

There are indeed a lot of patrols and few places to rest in Hawkbluff, but almost all fights can be avoided.

You mean the Flee option? I've heard about that one, but never tried it.

No, I meant that you can really avoid almost all fights, at first by bluffing the guards with forged papers, later by using secret passages. Maybe you were thinking of a different dungeon ?

 

[octavius]

Interesting... despite being the last Gold Box game, Dark Queen of Krynn does not seem to use the more advanced monster AI that was used in Pools of Darkness and Treasures of the Savage Frontier. That means spell casters won't move and then attack (which would have made the Dark Wizards even deadlier), nor will enemies avoid Stinking Clouds.

Actually I was wrong; monster do avoid clouds as long as they don't start their movement within one.

(I assume Mirror Image will help again Power Word: Kill).

Mirror Image can indeed help against some spells and magical effects, but I've never seen it work against PWK. As an instant death spell that allows no saving throw, it's by far the surest way of killing a Dark Wizard.

You're right, PWK is the best spell against Dark Wizards. Mirror Image does not work against it since PWK is an area effect spell. Haven't tried on multiple Dark Wizards yet, though.

AI-controlled PCs seem to love ranged weapons. But the monsters aren't necessarily any better. If you check the battle in the arena in my LP, my party's facing half a dozen very powerful minotaur warriors who're easily defeated because they're rather use their puny slings than move their lazy asses and use their swords.

Yeah, that was stupid and made The Arena far too easy.

There are indeed a
No, I meant that you can really avoid almost all fights, at first by bluffing the guards with forged papers, later by using secret passages. Maybe you were thinking of a different dungeon ?

That's possible. Been a long time since I played the second part of DQK, but I will find out soon enough.

I see on the map there is a place called "Bok". That's "book" in Norwegian. If I hadn't checked the map in the Cluebook and seen that the place is unreachable, I'd go looking for the Book of Amrocar there.

 

[octavius]

This is too stupid. I'm walking around in Hawkbluff without being harassed by Thenolian guards or patrols, but after I kill some Draconians who leave hard evidence that they are betraying the Thenolians, then the Thenolian patrols start attacking.

 

[Erebus]

This is too stupid. I'm walking around in Hawkbluff without being harassed by Thenolian guards or patrols, but after I kill some Draconians who leave hard evidence that they are betraying the Thenolians, then the Thenolian patrols start attacking.

Yeah, I remember that at one point, you can find a document clearly proving that the Draconians are using the Thenolians as tools, yet you can't show it to anyone. I thought it was in New Aurim, though.

Thenol is controlled by the church of the evil god Hith, so they're natural allies for the draconians, but that shouldn't mean blind cooperation. Of course, from what I've observed, airtight plots are not among the many qualities of Gold Box games.

 

[octavius]

Personally I hated the small dungeon patrolled by endless (?) patrols of armies of high level fighters and mages. Even one of these battles left the party severely reduced and it was not easy to find a place to rest. Hawkbluff I think it was?

There are indeed a lot of patrols and few places to rest in Hawkbluff, but almost all fights can be avoided.

You were right again.
It's weird how wrong many of memories of this game are. I remembered Hawkbluff as a very small dungeon with patrols the size of small armies every other step, but in reality it's quite a big multi-level fortress.
Obviously I played it completely wrong the first time, and didn't have Thenol army uniforms.
Playing it "correctly" it's my favourite area in the game. It's a mappers delight/nightmare (fortunately I like mapping), and once you have explored the fortress without raising the alarm, and released Davik it's fun to walk around the secret ways and eliminate various groups of enemies without running into the patrols, until I stumbled upon Trandamere and his generals. I was actually able to complete the entire Hawkbluff area without resting.

I also remember very little from the other areas after Hulderfolk and Kristophan. I had some vague recollection about fighting armies of Bakali and Shambling Mounds in Blackwater Glade.
And one of the most memorable combats was a pitched fight against an army of Minotaurs. I think that may have been a random encounter on the overland, though.

Of course, the upside to having such lousy memory is that it's almost like playing the game for the first time. :D

 

[Erebus]

And one of the most memorable combats was a pitched fight against an army of Minotaurs. I think that may have been a random encounter on the overland, though.

That's likely. I don't remember any fight against minotaurs once you're done with Thenol.

Hostile random encounters aren't very common in DQK, unless you wander around on the overland map. The last time I played, I don't think I faced more than 4 or 5 of them throughout the entire game. Some of them can indeed be fairly dangerous.

Of course, the upside to having such lousy memory is that it's almost like playing the game for the first time. :D

Then I won't spoil anything, but will just say that the nastiest fights in the entire game are still ahead of you !

What is the composition of your party, by the way ?

 

[octavius]

What is the composition of your party, by the way ?

Human Knight
Hill Dwarf Figher (was supposed to be replaced by a Human Paladin at the start of Death Knights, but for some reasons he wasn't)
Qualinesti Elf Fighter/Red Mage
Silvanesti Elf Kiri-Jolith Cleric/Ranger
Kender Sirrion Cleric/Thief
Human White Mage

This party has worked very well for me. I miss the paladin's Protection Against Evil aura and his healing abilities, though, and the Kender is not very useful in most fights; most enemies make their saves against his taunts. But if he gets a chance he does 70-85 damage per backstab, and it's always nice to have a locksmith and an extra healer.
The Fighter/Red Mage is overall the most powerful character. Her only weakness is no Globe of Invulnerability. It would have been nice to have a fighter that was immune to the dying Enchanted Bozaks' Ice Storms, as well as the Meteor Swarms of the dying Enchanted Sivaks.

 

[octavius]

Some random thoughts:

Power Word: Stun also works on Dark Wizards. Mirror Image does not seem to protect against it.

There is a bug with the Darts of Hornets Nest. If you kill the target before all darts are spend you still get the extra attacks with your bare hands, and can attack a new target. I've only seen this when trying Quick Combat since the moronic AI loves to use up the best weapons ASAP, and the Darts are too precious to spend on anything but Dark Wizards, since they are the only sure way a non-mage can hurt the Dark Wizards while they still have intact Mirror Images. For some reason Blade Barrier only works reliably in the round after it has been cast.

Generally there are fewer battles in DQK than in Pools of Darkness, but on average they are harder, which is why it was (and still is, I guess) my favourite Gold Box game. Also, areas like Hawkbluff and the Tower of Flame are less straightforward and harder to map than the areas in the other GB games, which I like.
The difficulty in Tower of Flame so far is lower than it was in the Gnome Citadel. I've been on all levels, and I'm currently back on lvl 1, and so far the only difficult battle was against "The Mages of the Dark Queen": 2 Dark Wizards, a Lich and some Fire Giant mages.
EDIT: The Beholder lair was scary, since one failed save against Disintegration and the target is GONE.

Hardly any of the enemies carry magical equipment. It feels a bit silly in PoD and Treasure of the Savage Frontier when you face armies armed with magic weapons and armour. It also means that the magic items you do find usually are worth keeping.
I dunno, maybe Forgotten Realms is supposed to be a Monty Haul campaign world, while Krynn is not?

 

[Erebus]

I'm not sure Globe of Invulnerability would protect a PC from a super-Sivak's explosion. Resist Fire + Fire Shield works well.

The Enchanted Bozaks are one of the three kinds of monsters I hate most in this game (the other two are Beholders and Dark Wizards). Their Fire Shield is extremely annoying when they engage your PCs in melee combat and it protects them against DBFs ; adding to that their spells, their decent HP, their speed and the way they explode, they can be titanic pains in the ass when there's several of them.

The Tower of Flame isn't too difficult at first, though I remember a few Dark Wizards and Beholders here and there. However, resting is fairly difficult and you'll need to be fully refreshed when you get to the big battle awaiting at the top.

Spoiler

The problem isn't so much the battle itself as the fact that resting will become very hard and eventually impossible during the next part of the game, which has two of the most difficult fights in the game.

The Gnome Citadel has some nasty fights. The last ones can be especially painful if luck is not with you.

 

[octavius]

I'm not sure Globe of Invulnerability would protect a PC from a super-Sivak's explosion. Resist Fire + Fire Shield works well.

I meant if my Fighter/Red Mage had Globe in addition to Resist Fire and Fire Shield, she'd be immune to the death effects from both the Enchanted Sivaks and Bozaks (and Auraks as well). Then she could just plunge into the melee, while the others kept their distance and killed the Bozaks and Sivaks with missile weapons.
I chose Fighter/Red Mage instead of Fighter/White Mage because only Red Mages have (EDIT: Mirror Image), Iron Skin, Fire Touch and Dimension Door. Haste and Slow also seemed more appropriate for a multiclass character. Globe would probably have been more useful. Oh well, if I ever replay the Krynn series I'll switch around the Red and White mages, and see how that plays.

The Enchanted Bozaks are one of the three kinds of monsters I hate most in this game (the other two are Beholders and Dark Wizards). Their Fire Shield is extremely annoying when they engage your PCs in melee combat and it protects them against DBFs ; adding to that their spells, their decent HP, their speed and the way they explode, they can be titanic pains in the ass when there's several of them.

Tell me about it. http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2011...howComment=1342289376106#c1516015223900836061

The Gnome Citadel has some nasty fights. The last ones can be especially painful if luck is not with you.

Yeah, I had to retreat to the Temple of Reorx before going into the Teleporter as all my party were dead except my Knight and the two elves.
Definitely the nastiest fight(s) so far in the game.

BTW, found another bug - a White mage scroll with a Haste spell. Haste is for reds only, but it may have saved my ass against the 4 Beholders and their chums.

It's also interesting to note that when Dark Wizards cast Haste on each other their Mirror Images protect against the spell, but their Globes don't!

 

[Erebus]

I chose Fighter/Red Mage instead of Fighter/White Mage because only Red Mages have Iron Skin, Fire Touch and Dimension Door. Haste and Slow also seemed more appropriate for a multiclass character. Globe would probably have been more useful. Oh well, if I ever replay the Krynn series I'll switch around the Red and White mages, and see how that plays.

Having a single-classed white mage means access to Power Word Kill, which is fairly useful. A Fighter/Red Mage may not have access to Globe of Invulnerability, but he has Mirror Image, which I would say is at least as useful to him (if not against the same dangers).

Yeah, I had to retreat to the Temple of Reorx before going into the Teleporter as all my party were dead except my Knight and the two elves.
Definitely the nastiest fight(s) so far in the game.

There are some fights that I find even harder later in the game, though their difficulty sometimes depends on the composition of your party.

BTW, found another bug - a White mage scroll with a Haste spell. Haste is for reds only, but it may have saved my ass against the 4 Beholders and their chums.

I don't remember ever finding such a thing, but then I seldom remembered to use scrolls.
Haste is by far the best buff you can cast on your whole party. The first time I played DQK, I remember I used it so often that my human PCs were starting to get pretty old by the end of the game (not that it had any actual consequence).

It's also interesting to note that when Dark Wizards cast Haste on each other their Mirror Images protect against the spell, but their Globes don't!

Mirror Image works a bit strangely sometimes.

 

[octavius]

Yeah, I had to retreat to the Temple of Reorx before going into the Teleporter as all my party were dead except my Knight and the two elves.
Definitely the nastiest fight(s) so far in the game.

There are some fights that I find even harder later in the game, though their difficulty sometimes depends on the composition of your party.

The ambush in the SE corner of level 1 was hard.
The fight at the font was hard.
The two fights before being sucked into the Abyss was not too hard since I buffed before the fight.
The fight before freeing Raistlin was quite hard, since I couldn't use magic on the Enchanted Bozos.
The fight against the 5 Headed Dragon was easier than I though since it didn't move and only two of the heads (the two nastiest ones: blue and green) breathed.

But the fight against Takhisis' envoys wanting to parlay - several Auraks, 4 Beholders and 2 Death Dragons is fucking brutal, especially when the fucking gas bags act before most of my characters. Damned, I hate being at the receiving end of that Slow spell. Oh well, I'll try again tomorrow, and just attack right away, instead of talking

Also I did a crucial mistake in not learning or scribing the Stone to Flesh spell prior to traveling to the Tower of Flame, so the party has been carrying the statue of the female Dwarf to the Abyss and back, and I'll have to reload if any of my own guys get stoned.

 

[Erebus]

The fight before freeing Raistlin was quite hard, since I couldn't use magic on the Enchanted Bozos.
The fight against the 5 Headed Dragon was easier than I though since it didn't move and only two of the heads (the two nastiest ones: blue and green) breathed.

These two are also amongst the hardest fights in the game. The first one was especially tough for me since I usually rely a lot on spellcasting. The five-headed dragon is in itself a bit easier, but the fact that you can't rest after finding Raistlin can be a problem.

But the fight against Takhisis' envoys wanting to parlay - several Auraks, 4 Beholders and 2 Death Dragons is fucking brutal, especially when the fucking gas bags act before most of my characters. Damned, I hate being at the receiving end of that Slow spell.

It's indeed very challenging. Last time I played, I had to lower the difficulty to the minimum level to get past it (for some reason, I had neglected to memorize a Haste spell, which could have made been a huge help).

 

[octavius]

But the fight against Takhisis' envoys wanting to parlay - several Auraks, 4 Beholders and 2 Death Dragons is fucking brutal, especially when the fucking gas bags act before most of my characters. Damned, I hate being at the receiving end of that Slow spell.

It's indeed very challenging. Last time I played, I had to lower the difficulty to the minimum level to get past it (for some reason, I had neglected to memorize a Haste spell, which could have made been a huge help).

Yeah, the Haste spell is crucial. I managed to beat the bastards on the third try. Like the last battle in Pools of Darkness initiative is important. I managed to cast Haste and get my Figher away from the others and kill one of the Beholders before it was their turn. I also got lucky in that one of the Death Dragons was affected by a Fear spell.
In the end only my Knight (after having received two Heal spells) and my Fighter was left standing.

BTW, I've noticed that the Draconians, especially the Sivaks have lower morale after returning to the Tower of Flame. Nice touch.

 

[Erebus]

BTW, I've nopticed that the Draconians, especially the Sivaks have lower morale after returning to the Tower of Flame. Nice touch.

Really ? Interesting, I never noticed that.

You're almost done with the game now, though it can take some time to find the place in the Tower where you need to go for the final confrontation.

 

[octavius]

You're almost done with the game now, though it can take some time to find the place in the Tower where you need to go for the final confrontation.

Just finished it actually.

The three battles were easier than the Mirror encounter, even with no buffing or healing before the third battle. I got a bit nervous when my Knight manages to miss a Green Dragon and the green then breathed for some massive damage, though.
Even the final battle against the dragon army was easier, even with my quickest mage having run out of DBFs.

The final battles in Pools of Darkness were more brutal, but overall I think that from a combatfag POV DQK is the superior game, with overall harder battles and less filler combat/random encounters. The story may be weak (but then who plays the GB games for the story?), but on the other hand it has some of the best level design of any of the GB games. I loved Hawkbluff and the Tower of Flame! Hell, I even don't hate the Lighthouse.

My memory may be hazy, but I could swear my characters reached lvl 40 first time I played.
Anyway here's the victorious heroes after the having rested and trained:

 

[Erebus]

Good job !

Even the final battle against the dragon army was easier, even with my quickest mage having run out of DBFs.

I wouldn't rank it among the most difficult fights in the game, though being out of DBFs would indeed make it more difficult. The multiple battles at the end of the Tower of Flame were more entertaining in my opinion.

The name of your dwarf fighter reminds me that, the first time I played DQK, all my PCs had names coming from LOTR.

 

[octavius]

The name of your dwarf fighter reminds me that, the first time I played DQK, all my PCs had names coming from LOTR.

I once did an Icewind Dale playthrough with a LOTR theme, with Boromir as Human Paladin, Aragorn as Half-Elf Cleric/Ranger, Frodo as Halfling Fighter/Thief, Gandalf as Human Mage, Gimli as Dwarf Fighter specializing in Axes and Legolas as Elf Fighter specializing in Swords or Bows (or both?).
They did well, but I missed a Druid in the party.

It'a bit sad that I have now struck all the Gold Box games from my play list. But OTOH there's lots of FRUA modules to look forward to.

 

[Granfalegion]

Sorry to see that life took its steely hold over your time, Erebus. This was one of the most entertaining LP's I've read through; makes me want to go back and play through CoK and DKoK again. (DQ turned me off pretty quick when green dragons just poisoned my brand spanking new party to death in the first round)

 

[octavius]

Sorry to see that life took its steely hold over your time, Erebus. This was one of the most entertaining LP's I've read through; makes me want to go back and play through CoK and DKoK again. (DQ turned me off pretty quick when green dragons just poisoned my brand spanking new party to death in the first round)

How inconsiderate.