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Let's stumble through tunnels and on trolls! [Tunnels & Trolls: Crusaders of Khazan LP]

newcomer

Learned
Joined
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Messages
919
:bro:

By the way, is this rat farming repeatable? I never fulfill the 150 rats quota, so I'm not sure.
But if you never fulfill the quota, you can repeat the rat farm everytime you re-enter sewers
(For some reasons I keep losing my hands when entering the door thanks to the trap... did anyone in your party lose a hand? If no can you teach me how to enter safely?)
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
This is one of my favorite games. I can't remember specific details, but I remember specific moments like:

1. Drawing from the equivalent of the deck of many things
2. All the different languages
3. Rescuing an ogre sheperd from jerk faces
4. Unicorns
5. Diamond hands
6. Limb amputation
7. Silverfish

And much more. There really is a lot of content in this amazing game.
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
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By the way, is this rat farming repeatable?

No idea, but given that the sorceress is now gone, I doubt it.

(For some reasons I keep losing my hands when entering the door thanks to the trap... did anyone in your party lose a hand? If no can you teach me how to enter safely?)

You... lose your hands? Must be some kind of attribute check/roll, and it looks like I managed to pass it unharmed. :P

No, sorry, I haven't got a clue what factors into that. Common sense tells me it must be Speed above all, so you can enter the room quickly enough before the door slams shut. But who knows.
 

newcomer

Learned
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Messages
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You... lose your hands? Must be some kind of attribute check/roll, and it looks like I managed to pass it unharmed. :P

No, sorry, I haven't got a clue what factors into that. Common sense tells me it must be Speed above all, so you can enter the room quickly enough before the door slams shut. But who knows.

Well, my Az & Procas (I used the same names as the one in this LP, but obviously different stats roll) lost their left hand after trying to enter the trap door 2 times, one hand per attempt... I managed to find a doctor to replace their hand with... uh... gremlin's hand... for an affordable fee of 1k gold per hand (well, I'm a sewer millionaire you see ;) ) The description do mention that I am not "fast enough"...

And by millionaire I mean that maybe I literally won't need to bother about finding gold for the rest of my journey ;)
 

newcomer

Learned
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
919
Oh btw Crooked Bee, you mentioned that we can tell you how we want to develop our character right? Then maybe I'll use this post to tell you what I have in mind of our old princess:

I expect the princess to have at least 20/25 CON late-game, for now 16 is enough..

Min-Max for IQ, STR and DEX, I expect her to be able to cast Born Again spell late-game (47 IQ, 27 DEX, 75 STR drain per cast)
Due to her diplomat background, it is proper to educate her with all sorts of language. You can consider either teaching her every single language, or buy the Wizard Speak spell which enables a wizard to understand every language for one hour per cast. You may also consider some points on CHR...

Fighting style... I won't force you on this, but currently I am using a combo of Hidey-Holey & Dagger + Shield (YES, MY WIZARDS ARE CLOSE-RANGE FIGHTERS) because I am stingy on buying arrows... and anyway I haven't found the equivalent of mana potion in this game, so yeah... Except that if the enemy has competent casters, it is appropriate to eliminate them ASAP using magic

Usually, if the enemy is too tough or the hidey-holey is going to end, the casters will retreat temporarily

Oh, and don't forget to teach Janurz Hidey-Holey, so that Elodie & Procas can spend their turn to snipe enemy wizards
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
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Messages
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I don't remember anything about becoming a sewer millionaire. Can someone pm me about it or explain it in the spoilers?

Thanks!
 

Erebus

Arcane
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Messages
4,763
Well, that encounter made grinding quite straightforward ! Ignxx did tell you that the girl was trouble.
 

Crooked Bee

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3: Sewer Millionaire

01tt210.png


Aside from fixed events, the sewers are also replete with random encounters. This time we face 5 spiders, but they aren't much of a threat, and the experience they give is low.

01tt215.png


Ignxx strikes up a conversation as we explore around. In general, the game seems to be full of these little details and unimportant events that games like Age of Decadence could also use to flesh out the world.

Despite Ignxx' words, I haven't been able to discover a Ranger hideout here or anything.


Ignxx poles the boat forward. "I really, really hate this area... so many rats," he says with a shudder. Cold yellow eyes stare at you out of the darkness.

Ominous. Oh wait, these aren't exactly rats...

01tt216.png


Giant Spiders are tougher than simple ones, but aren't a big deal either.

01tt226.png


Vampire Bats are fairly dangerous in large numbers, but two of them are a pushover.

01tt233.png


There are also trap areas here, like this one.

Procras is down, and if you take your sweet time...

01tt238.png


Not the kind of outcome we want. Damn carnivorous plants, always getting in the way.


01tt248.png


elodie.png
A selection of cheeses? What is this, the Frenchman's corner?

janurz.png
But who is the meat for, then?

azira.png
For the occasional German?

A man rises from the chair, setting aside a book.

"Greetings! I am Leo Felis. Biorom gave me this place to live, to monitor the sewers and to entertain people like you."


azira.png
Do you also feed the local rats? Because holy shit, that's a lot of cheese.

He gestures at the laden table. "Help yourself."

Drawing closer, you are impressed with the variety, and puzzled by the lack of an equal selection of meat. In fact, the meat looks greasy and stringy. Leo is eyeing you carefully.


01tt253.png


azira.png
I say we attack him and eat both cheese and meat. My stomach's a-rumbling.

This situation has two outcomes, depending on whether we go for the meat or the cheese. Let's have some cheese first.

Scenario 1: Suffer not a furry to live


elodie.png
I won't touch this meat with a ten foot pole. At least the cheese looks edible.

procras.png
Hold on, princess, don't touch the ch---

"You have eaten cheese! You are one of them!" Leo shrieks, his voice changing to a low rumble in mid-sentence.

azira.png
janurz.png
elodie.png
procras.png
:eek:

His clothes rip, exposing a furry hide, and in seconds he has transformed into a lion!

Evidently, Biorom placed him here to catch rats, and his limited cranial capacity led him to believe that anyone who eats cheese is a rat. To continue living, you must kill him...


01tt262.png


This is a pretty easy fight, but pretty pointless too. Our reward is some meagre exp and a Silver Platter. We could sell it, of course, but the second outcome is both more peaceful and more desirable, loot-wise.

Scenario 2: One of us


01tt285.png


Damn, it's like furry central. (Quoth the bee.)

01tt289.png


Our reward for choosing the meat over the cheese is a Cat Ring, an accessory that sounds like it could be handy for a Rogue so I give it to Janurz. Unfortunately, just like in Wizardry, Dark Heart of Uukrul or hardcore Japanese dungeon crawlers, there are no in-game item descriptions, and the manual doesn't list them either. So I'm pretty much in the dark as to what the Cat Ring does. At least it does sound like a thief's ring, wouldn't you agree?

01tt295.png


With that, we're done exploring B1F and descend to B2F. What more traps and trials await us?


01tt298.png


azira.png
HOLY CRAP ON A CRACKER.

Witchlight illuminates a previously hidden alcove. On the wall of the alcove hangs a huge black blade and a small leather bag. It is this bag he takes and opens. Two dice and three large gems tumble out of the bag.

janurz.png
Looks like a roll-playing game. I never knew Wraiths are into this kind of thing.

procras.png
*Updates his journal*

wraith.png
My game is simple. Your life against these three gems -- each one worth over 1000 gp.

You lick your lips with fear.


azira.png
More like crap your pants with fear, eh, princess?

elodie.png
Shut up. I-I'm not scared.

You see just three options:
1) try to fight this creature;
2) try to bolt for any of several exits;
3) you can play the game.


janurz.png
Well, there's no harm in trying. (I mean, we can always reload if things go wrong.)

azira.png
You volunteer, Hobb?

procras.png
I think whoever of us is the luckiest should play the game.

elodie.png
That means the Rogue, right?

janurz.png
Actually, funny story, I think it's you, Elodie.

elodie.png
Damn. I never asked for this.

Elodie's Luck is the highest at the moment, so we let her play.

01tt310.png


elodie.png
As unfair as expected. *Sighs*

wraith.png
So, is it above 7?

elodie.png
Um, no?

The Wraith's empty eyes slant at yours.

elodie.png
Oops.

wraith.png
We roll again. Above 7?


elodie.png
Er, no?

wraith.png
Two bad guesses. *Chuckles* You are mine...

"A good game," smiles the Wraith coldly. "Perhaps we will play again..."


01tt313.png


Oh, we definitely will. For now, let's reload.

(That said, the flower on Elodie's grave looks kinda cute, doesn't it?)


wraith.png
Above 7?


elodie.png
Nope.

"A lucky guess," scowls the Wraith.

Two lucky guesses out of three, and we have the gems:

01tt323.png


Okay, that was... fun?

01tt329.png


Elodie levels up as a result, and I choose to improve her IQ. She's a spellcaster after all, even if her spells are useless in the sewers.

01tt333.png


The pig-like demon conveniently appears again, ready to help us explore the second level.

01tt338.png


Naturally, we can't let a random event like this pass, so we join the demon and his emo Elven friend.


Ignxx introduces Aradon, a black elf, and the demon and elf chat about people you've never heard of and places you've never seen.

elodie.png
Such a waste. *Yawns*

procras.png
Ssh, listen...

Then the name "Lerotra'hh" crops up.

"I heard a rumor she's gone out of Khazan to raise troops somewhere," says the elf.

Ignxx nods. "Khara Kang's in charge of the capital. It's good for them: lots of 'honest folk' would like to see those two dead."

He glances at you in amusement.


azira.png
What?

"As long as either one lives, their sorcery will keep the Great Wizard Khazan in exile -- wherever he is."

Aradon shakes his head. "But Lerotra'hh's Khara Kang's master. I think her power is the keystone."

Ignxx disagrees. "Khara Kang is the sorcerer, not her."


azira.png
So we must slay both, then? No biggie.

janurz.png
If only your actions matched your words, Dwarf, and weren't just drowned in wine.

The conversation drifts off to other things.

"Hope you weren't bored," says Ignxx as he reboards the boat. "I'm always up for a chat with Aradon. We're off again."


And so we continue.

01tt351.png


azira.png
Whoa! What the hell?

01tt357.png


Did I tell you there are also underwater encounters in this game? The torches still work, though, so this is just play pretend.

janurz.png
A shark! Watch your limbs.

Turns out the shark isn't as scary as it looks, and it only manages to scratch Janurz a bit. The experience we get is appropriately pitiful, but it allows Az, Janurz and Procras to go up a level:

01tt369.png


Az improves his Strength from 33 to 36.

01tt371.png


I don't care if it's useful or not, but as a Rogue Janurz must have high Luck. Should be useful for gambling, at least, if not for much else.

01tt373.png


Finally, Procras continues to improve his extremely low CON somewhat.

01tt374.png


Passing some kind of (IQ?) check, we spot something off about one of the walls.


elodie.png
Huh, I wonder what it can be.

azira.png
Let's just break the wall and see.

janurz.png
Your methods are as refined as ever, Az.

01tt376.png


azira.png
And as efficient as ever, I would add.

janurz.png
Hey, look at all these chests! I bet there's treasure inside.

procras.png
Wait, don't---

01tt378.png

01tt381.png


elodie.png
Sure, my hair was a mess, and I reeked of the sewer, but at least I wasn't soaking wet!

janurz.png
I'm more concerned about the snake than about getting wet, personally.

The snake doesn't turn out to be much of a trouble, however, and the game asks us whether we want to seek treasure:

01tt385.png


We do, and find 2 gems. Nice.


01tt393.png


Trying to search further, however, only has our party face a Great Crocodile that rips us into shreds. Eh, whatever.

01tt400.png


The writing on the wall informs us there is also the tomb of the Prince of Gull here, mentioned in the previous update.

However, it takes me some time to figure out that "directly behind you" means "on the opposite side of the room," heh.


01tt402.png


Who tries to unlock it?

janurz.png
Let me try. I have a reputation to uphold.

01tt407.png


procras.png
Impressive. I thought it was fairy tales.

01tt412.png


There are several sarcophagi here, and when we open one the game asks us if we want to set the corpse aflame.

01tt413.png


If we choose "yes," the game suggests we burn all the mummies at once and run away. I'm afraid doing so might bar us from entering the tomb again, so let us rather leave them rot in peace and approach the mummified Prince instead -- as it turns out, he is more useful when we don't get on his bad side.


01tt419.png


elodie.png
I have a bad feeling about this, but let me try.

You consider putting down:
1) cash;
2) item;
3) nothing, after reconsidering.


elodie.png
Well, I have some gems here...

You sense the gift has been accepted. One thing tips from the pile toward you, as if offered in exchange.

01tt427.png


So yeah, the gist of this is, we can exchange gifts with the Prince. If we offer him too little, however...

01tt439.png


...then we have to fight him and his undead guardians, which isn't so good. So let's not.

Exchanging gifts is fairly useful -- for instance, we've just got a Pierce, which we can't buy from any of the regular shops in Gull. I guess it is some kind of shortsword? In any case, to Janurz it goes.

However, this actually isn't the main exploit on this floor. And we've run out of gems, hmm...


procras.png
I don't suppose you have any more gems left, princess?

elodie.png
Nope. And we don't have the gold to appease the Prince either.

procras.png
Then I have an idea.

azira.png
I just hope it involves setting all these undead abominations aflame.

procras.png
Not quite. I suggest we go back to the Wraith.

azira.png
You've got to be kidding!

elodie.png
Hmm, I guess I see what you mean. You think the Wraith will fall for this?

procras.png
No harm in trying.

elodie.png
Alright. Just don't involve me this time.

01tt452.png


On our (roundabout) way back, we also come across one of the possible exits from the sewers. All of them are dangerous, but this one especially so. Judging by the description, you need high Luck and Speed to get through here, a combination I'm not sure all of our characters possess. In any case, we don't want to get out of here right now, and there is another exit anyway.

Meanwhile, we're back at the Wraith's.


01tt455.png


wraith.png
Wait a moment. Haven't I seen you guys before? Just today, actually?

azira.png
Er, no. No way.

procras.png
You're obviously mistaken.

janurz.png
We're not them.

elodie.png
True story.

wraith.png
Hmm, well. Okay then.

The Wraith goes through the rules again, and then Janurz plays.

01tt465.png


After we get two lucky rolls in a row, the Wraith offers us to roll for the third time (and a chance to get one more gem). The only downside to this is that there's also a chance of rolling the death's heads, but the chance is slim and the reward is worth it -- three gems instead of just two.

The funniest thing about this, of course, is that the Wraith respawns whenever we reenter B2F, and has amnesia to boot, turning this little gambling game into a powerful exploit.

01tt492.png


This exploit is not just about money (although that is its main purpose, obviously), but also about experience, since whoever plays the game goes up a level after a few victories.

01tt495.png


Az stocks up on gems. We could just sell them, but let's see if the Prince of Gull has anything useful to offer us first.

01tt506.png


A Kross Kris is, I believe, some kind of sword. When equipped, it also seems to dispel all (?) spells around the character. It might prove useful, so we hold onto it.

01tt509.png


The Prince of Gull also gives us a gem in exchange for two of ours. His gem sells for a higher price, but overall this isn't the best possible bargain.

01tt511.png


Unfortunately, it seems he's run out of weapons and only gives us jewelry now. Apart from the pearl strand, there's also a Tiara of Silver & Gems and a Jeweled Scepter.

01tt513.png


Oh wait, not only. There's also a Ring of Fire -- which, as it turns out, casts some kind of weak offensive fire spell. Far from game-breaking or anything, but nice to have nevertheless.

After that, he runs out of new things to give us, so again, we return to the Wraith. This time we're in this for the money, not rare gifts.


01tt534.png


elodie.png
You're the most pathetic wraith I've ever seen, you know.

01tt550.png


Amidst all this gambling, Janurz reaches a whopping lvl 7. I choose to build him as a front line fighter, because we already have two spellcasters in the party.

01tt554.png


After a while, Az is fully stocked up on gems and Janurz gets a few, too. I could play on, but this should suffice for now. Time to get out of this shithole.

01tt561.png


And this is the second exit from the sewers. Not too safe either, but safer than that other one, at least.

We opt for climbing down.


Janurz gets down without mishap.
Az gets down without mishap.


However, things don't go as well for Elodie and Procras...

01tt581.png


Both of them now have to fight, and in complete darkness to boot. Thankfully, the true-and-tried tactic of running away doesn't let me down.

01tt583.png


We may be a bit beaten, but most importantly we're all alive. This was one hell of a ride.

01tt585.png


We've ended up at the local wharf, and we can even rent a ship here. But this can wait for a bit. We have gems to sell!

Two more events happen as we go back to the marketplace.

01tt587.png


The first involves a youngster pushing a wheelbarrow. He's probably up to no good, so we let him be on his way.

01tt588.png


Second, we come across a wandering mage who offers to identify some items for us. I make an attempt at identifying a few of the things we're carrying, but it turns out we don't have enough money at the moment. Bah, just you wait!

01tt593.png


Oh damn, the stores are actually closed at night. We rest until it's daytime again.

01tt601.png


There is a dedicated store that buys jewelry. Just what we need.

01tt611.png


:dance:

01tt644.png


We're rich. And it looks like we can basically repeat this trick ad infinitum.

Time to stock up on the best gear this city has to offer.
 

Fowyr

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
7,671
Now I know that game I will be playing after finishing my second playthrough of the Summoning (Otherworlds, here I go!)
 

newcomer

Learned
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May 23, 2012
Messages
919
Oh, by the way, this wraith is defeatable, but not killable (and yes, he'll go through his usual amnesia after that ;) )
Defeating him in combat will allow the casters to learn Curse You (apparently it causes an enemy to die if you die yourself), but one random party member will definitely die...

And how do I managed to defeat it... there's a game-breaking item called Death Wand, as its name suggests it will instant-kill anyone it hits, and so far it never miss... The item is there in the first place because it is rumored that that's the only way to defeat Letorrah. The "wand" part is misleading though... even a warrior can use it, because what you need to do is to equip it as a weapon & smack your enemy with it

And there are 2 of them in the entire game... one of them is obtainable very early...
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
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Messages
2,100
Location
California
Ugh. I need some help please.

I have the manual to the game, but no sort of command list - which i dont remember needed when i played this game 20 years ago.

The problem I'm having is that when I got to a store, it appears to scroll all the way to the end of the list and I cannot figure out how to scroll it. For example, at the Ironworks I see the weapons scroll buy, like rapier and stuff, but I cant buy them.

Is there a scrolling command I am not seeing?
 

newcomer

Learned
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
919
Try hovering your mouse on the item list box, if it's close enough to the top or bottom border of the item list box the cursor will change into an arrow. Click it & it will scroll up / down.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
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Try hovering your mouse on the item list box, if it's close enough to the top or bottom border of the item list box the cursor will change into an arrow. Click it & it will scroll up / down.

Awesome! I'm really kicking the dust off of my brain to remember how to play this game and I am enjoying it still a great amount.

One other thing I remember was that the SPEED stat was ReeeeAaaaaaAalllllllllllllly important. Does anyone know how much speed each class should shoot for?
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
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I've only just realized that Speed, and not Dexterity, is responsible for dodging in combat. Pretty important indeed. Not sure how high it should be ideally, though. I'm pretty much in the dark as far as this game's character development is concerned.

By the way, is this rat farming repeatable?

Contrary to my earlier guess, I've found out that yes, it is. I'm not really willing to repeat it, though.

On an unrelated note, I'm currently exploring Gull, and I've been thinking that VD could use it as a pretty much perfect example of how to make an RPG city feel "alive" and interesting to explore. There are even CYOA-like choices in this game as well. Somebody should force him to play it, so he could improve on that aspect in the Age of Decadence.
 

newcomer

Learned
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Once you have the Death Wand, I guess you can just pump up speed since I never saw it fails even once to kill the enemy
Or maybe Dex, to open doors, and IQ / ST for wizards to learn support spells

Oh, maybe there's more than 2 Death Wand...
Anyway once you get this item, it's impossible (not sure, but my personal experience suggests this) to lose it from event-based item force-removal (such as being captured by Letorahh servants & get your equipment confiscated), but consequently I'm not sure whether you can get multiple copies of it...
 

Anthony Davis

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Is it considered bad taste to request an update? You've completely captured my attention on this LP Crooked Bee! Don't be a tease.
 

Crooked Bee

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Sorry Anthony, I didn't mean to be a tease, I'm just a bit busy at the moment. I'll try to get another update done in the next couple of days, though.
 

Anthony Davis

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Sorry Anthony, I didn't mean to be a tease, I'm just a bit busy at the moment. I'll try to get another update done in the next couple of days, though.

Ah, thank you! I just love this game but I don't have time to play it at the moment. Your LPs always deliver.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Meh, exploits.

Enjoying this mighty LP so far though - hopefully it won't get *too* easy...
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I only know one CRPG without exploits of any kind, be it grinding or whatever -- it's Wizardry IV. When they are present, however, discovering them are usually half the fun, so I must disagree with you there.

Speaking of Wizardry IV, I will update that LP first and then move on to this one.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
I agree that discovering exploits is fun, and they can often be quite harmless to the game's overall balance. Still, sometimes it makes a game too easy and reduces motivation to continue, in which case I'd rather fool myself pretending the exploit didn't exist in the first place and play without it.

That said, I have no clue how a big xp and gold boost will impact you here. That was just a minor complaint, really - it's been a terrific LP so far, especially the little party conversation bits! I am eagerly awaiting the next instalment. :salute:
 

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