Level of challenge in RPGs

[octavius]

Difficulty in rpgs is a delusion.

I think so too - games are mostly designed to be fun, not difficult.

But games are boring if they are too easy.

Depends on the kind of game. For crps, you are right.

And even more for strategy games.

 

[Jasede]

Kind of a dumb thread since the point of every RPG is that you can kind of tailor the difficulty to your own liking by using a good or bad build or by grinding.

Talking about difficulty in RPGs is hence useless in most cases. Is playing Icewind Dale with a level 1 party on the Heart of Winter difficulty hard? Yes. But once you're allowed to save and reload, how do you measure? Reload count?

Difficulty is a topic best left for arcade and puzzle games and such.

Jrpgs are a little better about this. Like, SMT games like Nocturne can generally for the early parts not been beaten by grinding, only by creating a strong party and skill set. But that itself requires time so in some ways you're still grinding.

Let's face it, from the perspective of an arcade gamer, RPGs are the piss-easiest genre because every challenge can be overcome through grinding, RNG or planning or reloading.

The complete opposite are arcade bullet hell shooters. Here, in theory, the game can be beaten in an hour, if you had super human perception and reflexes and motor skills. In a good arcade game, all difficulty is perfect: all encounters are such that, if in theory you were good enough, you can all beat them on the first try. In practice this means months of practice.

In an arcade game, you try to become better, you try to beat your weak and slow self.
In an RPG, you try to beat the game, not yourself. You may improve a little in terms of strategy but your mechanics soon cap out and then all that's left is beating a game that was meant to be easily overcome given time.

It's impossible to compare these things.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

There should be one default difficulty mode, the one the game was designed and balanced around. Too hard? Your problems, consider getting gud or playing something easier.

And no way switching difficulty mode once the character is created.

Also, the idea of dynamic difficulty is beyond stupid.

It's supposed to create more exciting moments. And it probably does. When the designers test it on their children, parents, and co-workers. But as soon as a real consumer realizes what is happening it sucks the enjoyment out of the experience.

*laughs in God Hand*

I love a deep combat system that makes you learn it over time (Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Dark Souls)

 

[Jasede]

God Fist for mentioning God Hand, one of the greatest, fairest, most fun games of all time, maybe the best. And with dynamic difficulty!

 

[Trashos]

Kind of a dumb thread since the point of every RPG is that you can kind of tailor the difficulty to your own liking by using a good or bad build or by grinding.

Huh? Making a good build is part of the gameplay, part of the challenge, it is not primarily a way to tailor difficulty. Grinding is not always available either, especially for games without respawning enemies.

once you're allowed to save and reload, how do you measure? Reload count?

One way is reload count/ironman. Another way is that in actual challenging games you cannot proceed just by getting lucky dice rolls.

I do not really mind the abuse (calling my thread dumb), but it is hilarious that you are backing your aggressiveness with such a stupid post.

 

[Jasede]

???

 

[Trashos]

I happened to reply to your post before the edit. My main points of disagreement are still the same.

 

[Jasede]

I see your points, but I still think those 'difficulties' are not comparable.

Obviously, one can argue that the 'difficulty' in an RPG is coming up with a good party/build and executing on your strategy in combat. In a vacuum - that is, an RPG where the number of XP, mana, HP and time units are strictly rationed, this might be true. The problem is, I cannot think of even a single RPG where this rationing is present. And I am not sure people would even like to play something like that when, at that point, they could just be calling it a puzzle game.

 

[Wunderbar]

I love a deep combat system that makes you learn it over time (Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Dark Souls)

dies to pinwheel multiple times in a row

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Make a plaque saying that, I will sign it for you. You can put it in your apartment, your tombstone, etc.

 

[Excommunicator]

Usually I pick one level above the normal difficulty (but not max difficulty). If there's only one difficulty level above normal then I would usually just stay with normal unless the game is known for being particularly easy.

If there is weapon deterioration or restricted saving then I will definitely not pick that mode.