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Level Scaling in Skyrim: Post Your Stories

Discussion in 'Bethesda Game Studios' started by Azarkon, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. Ulminati Kamelåså! Patron

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    Show Spoiler
    You have your on-rails tutorial escape. Go to the city. Go through one dungeon filled with zombies to pick up a mcguffin. Then go off to fight a dragon alongside a bunch of guards. The dragon has presumably been wounded beforehand considering it was attacking a manned watchtower.


    You proceed to kill the dragon, learn your first shout, heal up, take a wrong turn, meet a lone wolf who slaughters you.
     
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  2. Monocause Arcane

    Monocause
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    I'm rather pleased with the way LS works, though some additional tweaking would be nice. There's some handplaced loot to be found, if you work hard at smithing you can get 1-2 tiers above the best equipment available at vendors. The random quests from bartenders seemingly point you to places appropriate to your level so if you find you're stuck here or there you can always try something else. Currently in the business of killing all bandits around Whiterun, only other town/region I visited was Winterhold (had to retreat because ice wolves are apparently more dangerous than heavily armored rogues)

    I'm checking UESP periodically to find out how exactly does it work. I hope different regions have level ranges too. One thing of note is that the Companions seem to be balanced for a higher level character or the randomisation can get too unforgiving. Joined them twice at levels 5-10. First got a mission to wipe out some vampires from Farkas, got murdered, after a reroll got to kill some trolls. Murdered too.
     
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  3. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Yes but that's in the context of people using persistent characters from scenario to scenario over the course of months (possibly years). Bob has played through modules A and B whereas module C is more attuned for players who only have the approximate experience level after beating module A alone. The 'scaling' information you mention is just to adjust a module so Bob can still experience the content and still have it be challenging. It isn't that analogous to a self-contained video game which is essentially just one module on its own.

    In Pool of Radiance (both the module and/or the cRPG) if Bob said, 'oh I'm going straight to Yaresh's pyramid and split some wigs' you don't look at the side packet to fiddle with anything you say: 'bad news, Bob, the lizardmen mutants raped your ass.' Still, I appreciate that Skrim does have certain instances where that is the case.
     
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  4. Think big! Smoking Dicks

    Think big!
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    Okay. That's not too bad at least just considering the dragon part. I'm assuming that after this the random dragons start spawning, and these are scaled to your level? Or do they spawn even before this?

    The real question I'm asking is: is it possible to larp this shit and hold off on the main quest until you're a reasonably high level, so that by that time the dragons will actually be formidable opponents? You could do this in Oblivion.
     
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  5. Mastermind Cognito Elite Material Patron Bethestard

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    I got murdered looking for shouts myself earlier in the game. Now that I'm level 20 or so it's much easier, but since i'm a pure mage with almost all points going to magicka i still get one-shotted occasionally.
     
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  6. Monocause Arcane

    Monocause
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    Yes. Don't know which point of MQ exactly starts dragonspawning - either talking with the Jarl for the first time or killing the first dragon - but everything I've read so far indicates it's possible. Didn't try it myself though.

    Remember that you're gimping yourself a bit as the shouts are pretty darn useful, even the first one is for stunning enemy mages. If you're going to larp you can just kill the first MQ dragon and avoid the rest until you feel sufficiently strong. That's what I've been doing on master difficulty anyway as while killing a random dragon at a low level is possible it's just tedious and you have to resort to abusing the AI, fe. standing in a shielded area and pelting the dragon with a shitload of arrows while it's circling above.
     
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  7. Giauz Ragnacock Scholar

    Giauz Ragnacock
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    Ulminati wrote:
    Not saying the level scaling can't get wierd, but just because you're a pseudo-medieval one-man army Sergeant York-wannabe shouldn't mean you're any more immune to (hypothetically):
    A small street urchin putting a knife in your gut (where the armor doesn't cover) and stealing your money as you bleed to death.

    After all, just because you have become deadlier shouldn't mean other deadly things are now just annoyances. I know we're talk'n RPG statistical battles, but still, why not discourage the ego boosting? Doesn't mean the game has to be super hard, but humbling the player a little can make them get their head in the game.

    Anyway, for whatever reason that quote made me :x
     
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  8. Think big! Smoking Dicks

    Think big!
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    You're missing his point.

    He's not complaining about the hard shit. He's complaining about the dragons being retardedly easy in comparison.
     
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  9. oldmanpaco Master of Siestas

    oldmanpaco
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    So I have been playing on the master difficulty level and the dragons are a bit of a challenge if you face them without backup. I think I have killed about 6 of them so far and each time I have had random people (guards/farmers) helping out with the fight. That being said I do enjoy having to hide behind objects so not to get fried by dragon fire.

    Anyway playing as your typical derpy fighter/mage (Heavy Armor/One Handed/Destruction/Conjuration) the number of enemies that can one or two shot you is a bit irritating. I assume had I gone with the pure mage or pure warrior it would not be such a pain in the ass.

    And screw the bears. The only good thing about them is that they change the name of the bear that rapes you as you level up. Currently getting sodomized by Cave Bears I think.
     
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  10. baronjohn Cipher

    baronjohn
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    I hate the item scaling in stores. It's so fucking blatant too. OH SHIT A NEW LEVEL TIME TO CHECK ALL THE STORES TO SEE IF THEY MAGICALLY STOCK ANY COOL NEW ITEMS.
     
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  11. meh Educated

    meh
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    This thread is now about kobolds!

     
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  12. Korgan Arbiter

    Korgan
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    It's fucking annoying that you still have to control your levelling with regards to improving combat skills at a good rate, or the level scaling will make every damn wolf overtake your thievery/illusion/whatever-based PC. I just ran into this when doing the first Imperial Legion quest at level 30 with only the light armor/one-handed/destruction/restoration among my combat skills, all at 50, and excellent sneaking/pickpocket, in fully upgraded elven armor. I got SLAUGHTERED, had to resort to werewolf form whenever there was 2-3 enemies I couldn't sneak up on.
    The frost dragon 10 minutes before that was much easier, I just took cover behind rocks and showered it with arrows.
    :retarded:
     
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  13. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

    Surf Solar
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    Scaling is screwed in my game. I mainly focussed on smithing so I could craft glass armor and later on that dragonscale armor (I have 84 in smithing at the moment on level 30) and put the rest of my points in destruction magic and light armor. Enemies one shot kill me wherever I go, even on the easiest difficulty it becomes a pain in the ass. I can't progress in any of the main guild questlines because the monsters in there (especially the bossmonsters) are impossible to kill.

    The worst is

    Show Spoiler
    going into azuras stone to kill that fucker in there. There are Daedra mages in there who kill me from afar whithout me even seeing them, even with all protection spells up. Or the final boss in the labyrinthian (the quest to retrieve magus' staff) onehit kills me even on very easy - I can't even scratch him.


    It's pretty derpy and I consider starting up all over again.
     
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  14. Data4 Arcane

    Data4
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    Well, for TES games, you have to understand Bethesda's philosophy. Essentially, it's to allow the player to go wherever he wants from the outset, rather than follow a more linear path that ramps up difficulty the further along you go. On paper, it makes sense and allows the player to experience challenges from whatever he faces wherever he goes as his own abilities get more powerful. In execution, you get the oft-cited bandits in Daedric armor and rats that can only be killed with Tsar Bomba derp.

    Not defending or bashing it. It is what it is.
     
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  15. draexem Novice

    draexem
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    Yeah it's absolutely stupid. Level scaling as a concept is rubbish. If the denizens of the world have to level with you to keep the game interesting then you may as well ditch levelling from the game. The whole idea of 'levelling up' is a dated and clumsy concept anyway that just reminds me of bad shounen manga. Everytime I hit another level I feel like having my character perform some weird Goku charging up sequence. Rpgs will probably ditch levelling up in the future in favour of more subtle techniques which they are already starting to implement (like opening up new skills or becoming more proficient with your weapon). Maybe then, because you are growing more powerful in subtler ways, they will stop level scaling the damn game (a concept which neutralises the whole point of levelling up).
     
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  16. crufty Arcane

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    I really am not sure how level scaling works. Went into a tomb...lots of low level creatures and weak loot. Then, a hard boss.


    Don't mind scaled bosses.
     
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  17. Ulminati Kamelåså! Patron

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    Speaking of shooting dragons.

    In the first town to get to (Riverwood or whatevs) there's a wood elf that can train you in archery. If you do his 3-second fedex quest to let him get his sleazy hands on someone elses girl, you can get him as a companion. You can them have him train you in archery 5 times, "adjust" his equipment, reclaim your gold and ditch him until next time you level up.

    It's a handy way to salvage your character if you rolled melee and want to kill dragons.
     
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  18. draexem Novice

    draexem
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    No acrobatics in Skyrim.
     
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  19. CrunchyHemorrhoids Prophet

    CrunchyHemorrhoids
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    Yes, I restarted the game after killing a dragon at lv5. Now I'm lv36, finished two factions' questlines, been to every city and have yet to see a dragon since the intro sequence, stopped following the main quest at the point where you're told to talk to the jarl of whiterun.
     
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  20. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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  21. Gord Arcane

    Gord
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    From my experience so far (lvl 14 or such) the system is still working relatively well, which seems to be in line with most other low-level players' experiences. So I guess that it's really getting unbalanced on high-ish levels.
    Not sure if it's due to bugs or just the usual bad balancing by Bethesda.

    Anyway, as I said, till now it's ok: In ~12 hours of playing I've killed only one dragon (the one form the MQ near Whiterun) and spotted two 2 circling a bit away, which I avoided. The common trash-mobs like Draugr, skeevers or wolves seem to get only easier so far, so I guess they are not scaled. However, more higher-level Draugr (don't remember how they are called) show up now, but I still get lots of low-level ones.
    My nemesis so far are sabre-toothed cats and bears. I really have to play the strengths of my character to survive them (i.e. sneak shots from afar, playing a thief). Reaching High Hrothgar was pretty challenging thanks to some deviously hidden animals...

    For what it's worth, playing on difficulty 3/4 the challenge seems about right till now - especially some dungeon- and quest-bosses can pose a serious threat that forces you to use all your ressources (or run away at times - I was exploring some cave with witches when I suddenly encountered some strange witch-thing that really kicked my ass. As I was low on pretty much everything all I could do was flee)

    As always I think mods will have to fix the problems in the end...
     
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  22. Mastermind Cognito Elite Material Patron Bethestard

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    Scaling isn't the problem, I think they're just really tough by default. Also, not sure what "all protection spells" you have up, since there's just 2 of them and only wards protect against magic.
     
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  23. torpid Liturgist

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    Seems like Bethesda is simply using the level scaling system from Oblivion's OOO mod, where the level scaling is still obvious but less obnoxious; didn't they hire that Oscuro guy, anyway? Or was it Obsidian for New Vegas?

    The larger problem though is the combination of level scaling and the improve-by-use leveling system, which forces you to ration your actions in order to not gimp yourself.
     
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  24. Ulminati Kamelåså! Patron

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    This. I'm really regretting dabbling in restoration and smithing early on, since the skills are not immediately beneficial to my sneaky archer in any way, yet have resulted in tougher enemies. If I were to start over again, I'd probably also ditch alchemy and enchanting so all my skills were combat-related. It's also vaguely annoying to click a book and suddenly get a skill point in a skill you know you're never going to use.
     
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