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Development Info Lionheart demo released

Psilon

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A "Descent GUI" would probably involve a 3D wireframe of the area which you can spin along every axis while paused, thus making it impossible to consistently navigate the streets of Barcelona.

Seriously, though, remappable keys aren't necessary. It's a nice feature, but I'd rather have combat that didn't remind me of Arcanum's RT mode.

Still, at least the demo didn't crash or exhibit major sound/graphics glitches.
 

Voss

Erudite
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
1,770
Lack of crashing or glitches is *not* a positive feature.

Nothing personal against you, but its bad when standards have gotten this low. We've all just gotten too accustomed to games being bad.
 

Psilon

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By Interplay QA standards, it's pretty impressive. I wasn't trying to push that as a selling point, though; you're right that stability is (sadly) considered a pro rather than a requirement.
 

Dragon

Augur
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Aug 1, 2003
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101
Location
Toulouse, France
Psilon said:
A "Descent GUI" would probably involve a 3D wireframe of the area which you can spin along every axis while paused, thus making it impossible to consistently navigate the streets of Barcelona.
.
Uh, sorry, my fault, I meant "decent", proper GUI. It's too big, some empty useless spaces, no "minus" button on the skils when leveling up, big buttons for the skils. In fact, nothing is tunable. Would it have been so difficult to let the player choose between a "button" view of the skils and a "list" view ? And the "minimal" GUI is just too empty, would have been better if you could add the feedback area too.


Seriously, though, remappable keys isn't necessary
Well, nearly every game does that now. I just can't stand it when the keys aren't logically disposed, or conviniently disposed for your use. For exemple, th scrooling is just awfull and since it is real time combat and the enemies are very (VERY) fast, I prefer to scroll with the arrow keys to keep my mouse pointer free for the rushing enemy. So every other default key is just layed out at the other side of the keyboard... I hate these lazy programmers (I'm programming too, I know what it is, but I also know that some thinks aren't that complicated to do).
 

Section8

Cipher
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Wardenclyffe
I agree with both of the points in that last post. In an isometric game, one of the biggest problems to overcome is the limited view range. In a real time game, it is absolutely essential that there is no User Interface latency. If the player has to move the mouse from the context of their character to click buttons or scroll at the edge of the screen, then you risk having moments where the player is not in control because they are busy fighting the interface.

From the sounds of things, Lionheart doesn't do either aspect well, and that scares me.
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
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Behind you.
I'm surprised you didn't mention how large the interface is in Lionheart on that same token, Gareth. For real time, you want a large view range.. So why is the interface so honking big?
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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I playe the demo last night. I wasn't impressed - espicially with the combat system...
 

chrisbeddoes

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RPG land
Saint_Proverbius said:
I'm surprised you didn't mention how large the interface is in Lionheart on that same token, Gareth. For real time, you want a large view range.. So why is the interface so honking big?

There lay her grandmother with her cap pulled down over her face giving her a strange appearance. "Oh, Grandmother, what big interface you have!"

"The better to hear you with."

"Oh, Grandmother, what big interface you have!"

"The better to grab you with."

Grandmother, what a terribly big interface you have!"

"The better to eat you with!"

No sooner did the wolf say that than he jumped out of bed and gobbled up poor noob rpg layer Little Red Cap. After the da rpg designer had made the sale of his real time rpg , he lay down in bed again, fell asleep, and began to snore very loudly.

the story continues later

Saint Proverbious skinned the fur from the bad rpg designer (wolf) and went home with it. Meanwhile, Little Red Cap thought to herself, Never again will you stray from the path of TURN BASED goodness and play crappy real time games with bad big wolf interfaces when the people here in rpg codex have forbidden it.


end of story.
 

Dragon

Augur
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101
Location
Toulouse, France
chrisbeddoes said:
Meanwhile, Little Red Cap thought to herself, Never again will you stray from the path of TURN BASED goodness and play crappy real time games with bad big wolf interfaces when the people here in rpg codex have forbidden it.
end of story.
:lol:
Very good story.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
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Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
OK, now's me:
I downloaded the demo easily via one of the links at DAC; but I had considerable pains trying to complete it. Generally, I think we might get quite a good game if they correct a few things.

5 points about what I don't like:

1. Inability to issue orders during pause. Although I somehow got used to it near the end of the demo, I still think it's pretty stupid. I don't like having to change my quickbar every time I wish to use a different tactic in a fight.
2. Weird saving system. You can't easily save in the same slot for the second time - you have to delete the given game first. I like to have a few slots, and the way it's made in this game leads to having hordes of unwanted savegames taking up disk space.
Mind you, the saves in the demo take 1.5 MB each.
3. I found a 2-H Sword of Revelation. It rocks! It gives the wielder bonuses to Find Traps etc, but - here's the funny part - +10 to Lockpick! So, do I wield the sword and pick locks with my toes?
4. Really slow scrolling. Maybe it was made so you wouldn't scroll accidentally, but the decision has made the experience worse, not better.
5. Why can't I run? This a) makes the game more boring, because I can't travel via World Map too and b) makes hit-and-run tactics just impossible.

I tagged One Handed, Sneak and Diplomacy. The last skill I used 2 times: to tell a guard to scram, and to convince a bandit that I was a bandit too (pretty unimpressive dialogue, though). In this situation I felt that I was too dumb to use the moron indicators. I thought that when I see a '!' sign next to a dialogue line, it means that this line is somewhat dangerous and I might anger my discutante. My conversation with the bandits was a counterexample for such a theory and left me puzzled as to what the true meaning of moron indicators was.
I don''t believe any rumors that you can complete the game without any fights.
The writing quality was quite high (I hope Ausir does a good job with the Polish version :)), although you don't get a huge amount of text in this demo. Contrary to what has been said above in this thread, I was able to pause during dialogue so the assasin didn't kill me.
I died a few dozen times until I found out that I have somehow miraculously missed a shop in the middle of one of the maps. After I bought some equipment the fights became more reasonable.
I didn't get any quests except from "Find Barcelona". And I tried to explore the whole maps; only skipped the Ogres. This demo is really hack'n'slash'sneak only.
I didn't mind the size of the interface. Sneak skill worked well; I found some hidden treasure while searching the wilderness - so, Find and Sneak skills are made well imo.
Ranged weapons suck, mainly because your inability to hit-and-run. If you hide in the bushes, stalk your prey and shoot it, it seemingly automatically notices where you are (even if it's standing with its back to you) and is next to you after approx. 1 second. The monsters run too fast.
Also, there are a few travelers you can meet on the road. If you walk next to them, and any wolf notices you, he always attacks you and leaves the traveler alone (and of course, if you aren't around, doesn't notice the traveler at all); the guy never helps you or runs away - he just continues walking.

But I liked the music, graphics and the atmosphere. I had some fun with this demo, actually.

EDIT:
Another thing: you can't rest. To regain HPs you have to wait until they climb, slowly, one-by-one, to max. I remember reading the whole Solar Lottery during unpatched Fallout 2 loading times, and I have now some interesting Discworld novels to read a second time while my character stands near a tree and patiently waits for his HP to climb from 1 to 50, but I seriously think this wasn't the best way to handle wound curing.
 

morenoise

Novice
Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Messages
13
Location
Vault13
and I have now some interesting Discworld novels to read a second time while my character stands near a tree and patiently waits for his HP to climb from 1 to 50, but I seriously think this wasn't the best way to handle wound curing.
I dont want bothor your fun of reading, but why not use healing spell?
As long as u place one skill point in divine Fortitude Spell Branch, or choose
the divine spirit (good choice for a meleer), you can cast that
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
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Messages
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That's a bit rich, telling the player to take a healing spell just to survive.
 

Psilon

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Codex retirement
It's also rather amusing in the context of Sawyer's proposed modifications for FO3. Wasn't he basically saying that any skill which everyone takes should be axed or merged?
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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Messages
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There are potions available; youc an also heal naturally (just takes time).
 

Elwro

Arcane
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Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Volourn said:
There are potions available; youc an also heal naturally (just takes time).
A general reply to the people giving me advice on what I should do to heal: First, I know, Volourn, that you can also heal naturally. In fact, that's what I wrote in my post. And in my opinion potions should be used during a fight. When all is peaceful around and I can relax, I shouldn't be forced to drink a healing potion or cast a spell - I definitely should have an option to rest.
I didn't like Dungeon Siege. Liked the graphics, but one of those things that made me abandon this "game" was the way healing was dealt with.
Basically, what DarkUnderlord said: I shouldn't be forced to take a healing spell just to survive. Fallout didn't force me to tag any skill or take any trait. Arcanum also allowed me to leave any skill undeveloped. What if my character just doesn't want to explore divine magic? Than he has to a) lose lots of money on potions or b) wait for hours until he regains his HPs. Leaving out a simple resting option is imo a seriously mistaken design decision.
 

Astromarine

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Joined
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Switzerland
for the people with access to it now (I'm at work), what is the demo like with F2 pressed? is the interface usable?

Also, has anyone tried a sneaker/marksman with ranged and max Perception? How bad does it suck?
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,751
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Astromarine said:
for the people with access to it now (I'm at work), what is the demo like with F2 pressed? is the interface usable?
Yes it is. You just have to memorize what things do you have in which slots on your quickbar. If you know the keys, it's definitely good to play with hud off.
 

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