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LISA - now with LISA The Joyful DLC

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by Phage, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
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    Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    There is no trick, it is pure RNG. Timing doesn't matter, character luck doesn't matter. If you are lucky, you can just mash button and win it right away. And if you are unlucky... welp.
     
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  2. Lurker47 Learned

    Lurker47
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    LISA's "hardcore" aspects are just tedious and stupid. It's about as "hardcore" as a Half-Life mod that spawns you in an open room with 30 different enemies.
     
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  3. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Did u finish it?
     
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  4. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

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    Yup. I did everything besides the extra roulette rounds.
     
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  5. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Besides the RNG bullshit, did you like the game? Please share some details.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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  6. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

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    Mainly it was a big reminder on that I really can't stomach the RPG maker combat.

    The permanent death RNG mechanics in bosses are bullshit as well. Either you stun/paralyze lock them or then you gamble your NPCs. It isn't very interesting or challenging tbh.

    Thematically the game is bit of a mess. Since it lacks the background from Lisa the first, some things don't really make sense - or at the very least they aren't as effective. I would've added some scenes from the perspective of Brad.

    Also the follower management aspect feels a bit separate from the game itself. It'd be more impactful if there was more c&c and reactivity with the followers, but the RNG losses make that a bit impossible. As it is, you could replace the followers with Pokemons and much wouldn't change.

    I liked the whole post-apocalypse if it was shaped by a bunch of adolescent boys -theme of the game. But that sort of clashes with the more serious aspects that are going in the background. It kind of makes it hard to take the drama seriously, since the whole thing could just as well turn out to be the product of a child's dream.

    All in all, a collection of interesting parts that don't quite fit together as perfectly as they could.
     
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  7. Lurker47 Learned

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    I remember reading that this game was partially inspired by A Boy and His Dog. If it wasn't, then that book just did it infinitely better because the explanation of why there aren't any women isn't nonsensically magical. Alongside there being protagonists who actually have conversations and a semblenace of personality.
     
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  8. toro Arcane

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    In total there are three Lisa games: Lisa: The First (freeware - not on Steam), Lisa: The Painful and Lisa: The Joyful.

    Well, Lisa is borderline black comedy combining serious themes (worst aspects of humanity) with a lot of soul.

    The game is advertised as a "A life ruining gaming experience" therefore the game should not be deconstructed and judged on the merit of each piece and instead it should be seen as a immersive experience package. As with immersive movies, the goal of the immersive games is to create a specific mood within the person watching, listening, playing or interacting with the game. That's why they seem to be thematically unfocused because their main goal is not to convey clear messages. This is a naive definition but I hope you get my point.

    I don't want to praise Lisa more than it deserves but the game does manage to deliver on what it advertised.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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  9. karoliner Arcane

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  10. oldbonebrown Arcane

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    I never thought it was very important exactly what happened to the women in the game, and I think the game tells you not to care too much with how Nerns story that teases you about it. What does it matter? It's not important, and it's better left unexplained in a world were nothing matters anymore.
    How does Brad not have a personality? Why is he a martial artist? Why did he raise Buddy the way that he did? Why does he say that the world finally makes sense to him as he is about to kill his friends? Why could he not stop himself from beating up Buddy after finally finding her? Why does he turn into a mutant?
    In a game that is about the scars of childhood abuse, he is a great character.

    Nah, they are funny, and that's not a good comparison. Aside from the roulette it's just light teasing from the game.
     
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  11. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

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    Uh wut, most of those things were explained rather explicitly.
     
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  12. oldbonebrown Arcane

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    I don't remember the game ever explaining the white flash in which all the women disappeared, and the Lisa wiki tells me it's not explained either.
    If you meant to quote the questions regarding why Brad acts the way he does, yes it's explained by who Brad is. I'm trying to argue that Brad has a personality, which Lurker47 seems to question.

    If I had the button for it I would give you a doggy.
     
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  13. Lurker47 Learned

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    But why couldn't it have just made you know, sense. It's not better left "unexplained" if the entire plot hinges on it and you directly talk about it several times (even if it is jokingly)- why couldn't he have just ripped the plot point from A Boy and His Dog.
    He doesn't talk. There is no intricacy to the blatantly obvious aspects of his character (ALCOHOL, REGRETS, DADDY ABUSE). 1. Because the writer liked martial arts (TO BE STRONG BECAUSE DAD ABUSE). 2. BECAUSE OF THE (((((((((TRAUMA)))))))) 3. DEEP. 4. Because he was forced to take crazy person drugs? Lol. 5. Again, drugs.

    These last two of course have very blunt meanings but mostly, it's just drugs. There really, really, REALLY isn't much you can do with a character if they barely talk, you can't read their thoughts, and it isn't a straight-up book (with some artful, symbolic language).

    I'm fine with people thinking this is a game with good execution and not much else (I still strongly disagree) and those who say that Brad is a good character for it (which if you thought the execution was fine, makes perfect sense) but I don't get why people think Brad is a GREAT character and this game has GREAT writing. That just fucking baffles me.

    Yes, there are elements to Brad's character but they aren't really explored as much as alluded to. And in what is essentially a laser-focused character study, it comes off incredibly fucking boring.
    Tedious. The "haha if you try to heal, you can get poisoned" is tedium- Dingaling, in what he's said of his game, clearly wanted there to be "CONSEQUENCES". Most people don't seem to have read what the guy has actually said about his game.
     
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  14. toro Arcane

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    Maybe because most people have a soul which you seem to be lacking !?
     
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  15. Lurker47 Learned

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    Also, to clarify, Brad, of course, has a personality. I didn't literally mean that. But he's just so stoic and written to be so single-minded and blah blah blah that he comes off insufferably boring and no amount of backstory can truly make up for that. You don't *really* get the nuances of how someone thinks from a shit-ton of lore dumping. Especially not in a way that's satisfying to experience as a story.
    I tend not to get invested in "MUH FEELS" the game number #649,582
     
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  16. toro Arcane

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    There are no nuances on how Brad's thinks and it really doesn't matter because his sole reason to live is to save and protect Buddy. You are asking for bullshit which doesn't make sense in the game's context.

    The game does an outstanding job in depicting Brad's inner resolve and how his broken past still haunts him.

    The game is all about "MUH FEELS". If you are so emotionally rigid that you cannot empathize with Brad then you got a problem: either you lack a soul, you are a psychopath or you are emotionally retarded.

    Honestly, stop posting about the Lisa. You missed the whole point of the game because you cannot empathize with anything. The issue is you, not the game.
     
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  17. oldbonebrown Arcane

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    I think it is fitting that it's left unexplained. Everyone has gotten used to the fact that the apocalypse has has happened, everything is over and nothing matters anymore.
    The story does not hinge on how and why it happened, only that it did and what that means to those who are still around. The past is dead, a lore dump about ww3 would not do anything for the theme of childhood abuse.

    I'd like to add to that that I think the biggest misstep in the story is explaining the joy mutants in Joyful. That too was better left unexplained.

    Brads character is writ large, he is made up of a handful very prominent character traits that plays into everything about him and the story that we experience through him.
    I think that the way the story is written is to at every point take the most impactful turn it can take, and having a good narrative flow comes secondary to this. An example would be how it's a bit random that Marty suddenly shows up at the end together with Buddy. This can be seen as cheap and manipulative, but I think that the dark comedy aspect of the game makes it work.

    I think that your answer to the question on why he became a martial artist is unfair.
    The very first scene that we see of Brad is him standing up to bullies and only getting shit for it, and after the death of Lisa he is blamed and blames himself for not protecting her.
    Brad is not a martial artist just because the writer likes martial arts, it is part of a character who has been struggling his entire life to protect others and himself. It is because of "daddy abuse", yes, that is partially the main theme of the game, but it also says something about him as a character that ties into where he ends up at the end of the story.
    When he raises Buddy to be a cold killer we see the same attitude of Brad against the world, a continuation of a life defined by the horror that took his sister and the abuse he also suffered.

    Brad is not the most nuanced character ever, but everything that we learn about him is very iconic in how it reinforces his character.

    No, it's not just drugs that makes Brad act the way that he does and you know that. You can look at it like that if you want to, but joy has an obvious metaphorical side and the game has other things that leads up to him beating up Buddy and turning into a monster.
    He has been haunted by Marty for his entire life , when it comes down to it he has finally given in fully to the worst side of himself. He tried to win over his past with the chance he got with Buddy, but in the end the scars of his childhood wins.
    When he slaughters his friends this is the natural next step in how he has developed throughout the game, possessed by his single minded vision that is confirmed now that everyone is explicitly against him in his righteous cause.
    This is how he becomes a monster.

    At least I think that makes sense, been quite a while since I played the game now.

    I think it's funny and only once did it caused me any unreasonable trouble. The game sets a stage where I appreciate some abuse of the player. Perhaps you were put in some situation that I was not, I don't remember the game ever slowing down because of these moments so there was no tedium for me.
     
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  18. Lurker47 Learned

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    Because it's a set-up for boring writing.
    Lol.
    Neither did much of the game.
    Literally the only reason why I said that was because of something Dingaling said in an interview. I just thought it was funny because that was the reason he gave.
    That's all I needed.
    No shit but it certainly undermines the narrative meaning of him even doing that in the first place.
    Try braindead obvious.
    And then he literally becomes a monster to emphasize this because the game was written by me when I was 13.
    Again, I'm only saying this because of the perspective Dingaling outlined for the game when he talks about it- frankly bordering on self-delusion. The game was mildly annoying to me- mostly owing to minor platforming bits with painfully clunky and slow controls.

    I had high expectations for this game (based on what a friend said) and was let down pretty hard by it. I'm sorry I can't empathize with a game where the main character is over-thematized to the point of acting like a caveman and nobody else acts like a real person (the writer said the worst person in the series was the eight year-old who got raped by her father and killed herself- talk about emotionally retarded, lol)

    Don't give this man fist buttons for preaching to the choir. I'm doing a civil service by being one of the 3 people on the Internet to actually express a differing opinion on this game.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  19. toro Arcane

    toro
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    By now I reckon you are a pretentious bullshiter but the question is: Are you also a delusional tranny?

    You are doing a civil service nobody asked for. How kind of you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  20. Lurker47 Learned

    Lurker47
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    That sentence said a lot less about what I think my writing capabilities are and more about how eye-rolling some of the stuff in LISA is to me. I think most preteen boys could write something like "drug makes you into a monster" Probably not the whole game though.
    [​IMG]
    That's what makes me a true patriot.
     
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  21. oldbonebrown Arcane

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    [​IMG]

    another lisa drawing I did
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
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  22. oldbonebrown Arcane

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    Does Marty have red cheeks because he is a clown?

    It didn't hit the first time that I played it, but the opening when Brad gets bullied and beat up for trying to do the right thing, only to have his father berate him for it and throw a bottle at him is one of the funniest jokes in video games for me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  23. LarryTyphoid Learned

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    Played this game a few years ago. Heard there were different endings depending on the amount of Joy you took. I figured that shit was bad so I had Brad take absolutely none on my playthrough, even with the horrible debuffs. Played on Painful mode too, since I didn't think the game was that hard. Had a good time.

    Then the ending comes and you don't even get to fight the main antagonist Buzzo, but some lame retard instead. And Buddy decides she'd rather get gangbanged by a Mad Max army than go with Brad because he punched her once by accident (and some fags told her that he did drugs). Then Brad turns into a Joy mutant despite me taking no Joy whatsoever because Buzzo forcefed Brad earlier in the story. Then I read that the Painful Mode ending overwrites the Joyless ending. Except that there aren't actually different endings, just different epilogue scenes that have nothing to do with your decisions through the game that are only there to force you to play the game 3 times to fully understand the story.

    And then I watch a video of the DLC and Buddy is all like "I WANT TO BE STRONG AND RULE THE WORLD AND KILL PEOPLE" despite this being the same little girl who was drawing with crayons and putting make-up on Brad mere days before. And she keeps talking shit about Brad and how he was "overprotective". At this point I decided that I had seen enough.

    If you like this game you are :retarded:
     
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  24. Ivan Arcane

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