List of the best games of all time

[Zed Duke of Banville]

what do you call a non-RPG game? what elements or lack of thereof define a non-RPG game?

A non-RPG is defined by the negation of not being an RPG, and an RPG is defined by the holy trinity of character-, combat-, and exploration-related aspects.

Character-related aspects are character progression, character customization, equipment, and inventory.

Combat-related aspects are derived from the origin of RPGs in tactical miniatures wargaming.

Exploration-related are dungeon-crawling, wilderness exploration, puzzles, and logistics.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

For example, where does System Shock go? It's a Metroidvania but also clearly an FPS, as well as an action adventure game.

The exploration takes precedent over the combat, so metroivania wins over fps. Now yeah comparing with action-adventure it becomes more difficult. I still would say metroidvania...

Also, where does a game like FTL go?

That's a hard one... RTS maybe?

Metroidvania are 2d games,

Say hello to Metroid Prime for me...

If you accept 3d then suddenly people call Dark Souls, Arkham Asylum ... metroidvania

DS and Arkham Asylum are metroidvanias though...

 

[Grauken]

Dark Souls is an action RPG, Arkham Asylum an action-adventure. Case closed

 

[Grauken]

Metroidvania are 2d games,

Say hello to Metroid Prime for me...

If you accept 3d then suddenly people call Dark Souls, Arkham Asylum ... metroidvania

DS and Arkham Asylum are metroidvanias though...

None of these is a metroidvania

 

[Gregz]

what do you call a non-RPG game? what elements or lack of thereof define a non-RPG game?

A non-RPG is defined by the negation of not being an RPG, and an RPG is defined by the holy trinity of character-, combat-, and exploration-related aspects.

We don't need to return to this debate. If a suggested game is found on any of our official cRPG polls, it can't be included in this one. Easy solution.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

what do you call a non-RPG game? what elements or lack of thereof define a non-RPG game?

A non-RPG is defined by the negation of not being an RPG, and an RPG is defined by the holy trinity of character-, combat-, and exploration-related aspects.

We don't need to return to this debate. If a suggested game is found on any of our official cRPG polls, it can't be included in this one. Easy solution.

what about games that are obviously not RPGs but were included on the RPG polls?

 

[Jason Liang]

Except we have non-rpgs on our rpg poll like Star Control 2 and Jagged Alliance 2

 

[Grauken]

Except we have non-rpgs on our rpg poll like Star Control 2 and Jagged Alliance 2

That's why Gregz rule is so beautiful if it was on those lists, it doesn't get another chance

You can't have your cake and eat it too

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Dark Souls is an action RPG

An ARPG is defined by the fact that Character Skill is of equal importance and influence to the Player Skill.
You can complete DS without developing your character at all, solely relying on your skills and experience as a player.
Therefore not an ARPG.

Arkham Asylum

Dude, Asylum's structure is equal of an Metroidvania. There's few ambiguity in it's design like you have in action-adventure titles like zelda.

Metroidvania are 2d games,

Say hello to Metroid Prime for me...

None of these is a metroidvania

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Sports

Hey man I don't like it too, but it's genre like simulators and card games.

 

[Grauken]

Arkham Asylum

Dude, Asylum's structure is equal of an Metroidvania. There's few ambiguity in it's design like you have in action-adventure titles like zelda.

Metroidvania are 2d games,

Say hello to Metroid Prime for me...

None of these is a metroidvania

Doesn't matter, 3d changes how these games fundamentally play and which makes them unfit for the metroidvania category.

 

[Lemming42]

I'm starting to think we might have trouble coming up with enough Grauken-certified Pure Aryan Metroidvanias to actually make the list.

Same for a few other genres - Stealth is probably going to be tricky, especially if we start getting picky about definitions. Our list of the 10 best stealth games might end up just being a comprehensive list of literally all existing stealth games.

 

[Grauken]

I'm starting to think we might have trouble coming up with enough Grauken-certified Pure Aryan Metroidvanias to actually make the list.

Same for a few other genres - Stealth is probably going to be tricky, especially if we start getting picky about definitions. Our list of the 10 best stealth games might end up just being a comprehensive list of literally all existing stealth games.

I can name you enough pure Aryan metroidvania to last for a lifetime, don't worry

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Doesn't matter, 3d changes how these games fundamentally play and which makes them unfit for the metroidvania category.

You're fucking with me aren't you?
Have you played Prime? It's pretty much the same experience as Super only in 3D. The way you play the game doesn't fundamentally change, only now you have a new axis to move and explore in.

Stealth is probably going to be tricky, especially if we start getting picky about definitions.

How? Stealth for me seems like a really clear cut game experience.

 

[Lemming42]

How? Stealth for me seems like a really clear cut game experience.

I agree, but I'm sure that - since this is the Codex - someone will try and claim Dishonored isn't stealth because it's too casual or something.

 

[Reality]

That's when "social stealth" sub-genre of stealth ala the hitman games or disguises in a game like MI comes up

 

[DJOGamer PT]

How? Stealth for me seems like a really clear cut game experience.

I agree, but I'm sure that - since this is the Codex - someone will try and claim Dishonored isn't stealth because it's too casual or something.

Oh... yeah.
It would be funny if someone where to put Thief 1 in the Horror genre instead because it fits the definition.

 

[Grauken]

Doesn't matter, 3d changes how these games fundamentally play and which makes them unfit for the metroidvania category.

You're fucking with me aren't you?
Have you played Prime? It's pretty much the same experience as Super only in 3D. The way you play the game doesn't fundamentally change, only now you have a new axis to move and explore in.

I'm serious, they clearly tried to translate the experience to 3d, but it does change how it plays. 2d is the most fundamental aspect of metroidvania games, hence changing that makes them into something else. Not worse, its just something different

 

[Gregz]

Why are you guys arguing about sub-genres? That's not what the proposed poll, and subsequent list, is for.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I made the sub-genre list because I think it's the best way to organise a poll around, and it also helps when choosing what games to vote on...

I'm serious, they clearly tried to translate the experience to 3d, but it does change how it plays. 2d is the most fundamental aspect of metroidvania games, hence changing that makes them into something else. Not worse, its just something different

Well, this one matter will never see eye to eye good sir.

 

[Grauken]

Your sub-genre list shows a certain bias anyway, 4 distinct categories for strategy games, but you throw shmups and FPS into one category, then you have fighter and another for beat'em up & assorted

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Your sub-genre list shows a certain bias anyway, 4 distinct categories for strategy games, but you throw shmups and FPS into one category, then you have fighter and another for beat'em up & assorted

I have very little experience with strategy games, so I've always assumed those 4 were distinct types of games.
Now shooters, figthers, brawlers, platformers, racing games, stealh games and metroidvanias are already sub-genres of the Action genre. To then attribute even more sub-genres to another one of those, like shooters, it would be a bit ridiculous. Besides, up to 10 entries for that genre is a good number to chose from.
Lastly hack 'n' slash/beat 'em ups/brawlers are all the same sub-genre, these are just different names. The reason I didn't go with just brawler it's because most people would think that I was leaving out hack 'n' slashes or beat 'em ups. And figthing are very different from brawlers.

 

[Grauken]

I think Felipe's original proposal was the best, also no console games, but other computers count (which would include Japanese computers, so no SNES EVO, but PC-98 EVO could go in), and no games on any of the other best RPG lists (so no Dark Souls, Jagged Alliance 2 or Star Control 2)

Question is, should everybody be able to vote, or only people who've been on this site for at least a year?

Also, how long do we keep this open, 1 month, 2 weeks?

 

[ManaJunkie]

All platforms should be included. Computers, consoles and arcade.
I should be possible to vote for pong, mega man 2, street fighter 2 or nba jam

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Agree.
What's the point of doing a poll for best games of all non-RPG genres if you going to limit it to a certain platform. That will just mean some genres will have very small representation (possibly none at all) and genuinely good games will be left out.