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Wizardry Long Live Wizardry! (And The All-New Games By Ex-Wizardry Developers) - UPDATED: MARCH/07/2016

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
8,339
Location
Water Play Catarinense
Creeping Coins are one of my favorite enemies from the series. I think they were unique to Wizardry, right?

They are also in Dark Spire for DS.
I think he means by unique as in "Wizardry introduced them". I think Dragon Quest's Bag o' laughs enemy is based on them. They were first introduced in DQ3, but since DQ5 they have a skill to call another monster.
 

turkishronin

Arcane
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
1,231
Location
where the best is like the worst
This game is weird. We're supposed to be in a medieval fantasy but this guy is thinking about winning the Nobel Prize
FPh667OWQAU-m8g
 

Ysaye

Savant
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
655
Location
Australia
Odd Question for the day: Is the Playstation 1 version of Llylgamyn saga the same as the Sega Saturn version? Is there anything that would make anyone choose one over the other?
 

somerandomdude

Educated
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
125
Any of you play Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land for Playstation 2? I thought it was pretty good for what it was. I remember getting my cheeks spread after getting ambushed by 20 spiders which proceeded to run train on my whole group at once with a rush attack. It was fair, ambushes weren't random, you had to let an enemy make contact with your back, or fall on top of you, so you goofed bigly if you let it happen. Some of the strategic elements they added to the combat with team actions were pretty interesting.
 

Ysaye

Savant
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
655
Location
Australia
Any of you play Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land for Playstation 2? I thought it was pretty good for what it was. I remember getting my cheeks spread after getting ambushed by 20 spiders which proceeded to run train on my whole group at once with a rush attack. It was fair, ambushes weren't random, you had to let an enemy make contact with your back, or fall on top of you, so you goofed bigly if you let it happen. Some of the strategic elements they added to the combat with team actions were pretty interesting.

Lots of good things about that game, but the combat with animation is slow; I also don't really see the point of the randomised dungeons. Apparently Busin0 is a better game with the same engine, but it was never translated.
 

somerandomdude

Educated
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
125
Any of you play Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land for Playstation 2? I thought it was pretty good for what it was. I remember getting my cheeks spread after getting ambushed by 20 spiders which proceeded to run train on my whole group at once with a rush attack. It was fair, ambushes weren't random, you had to let an enemy make contact with your back, or fall on top of you, so you goofed bigly if you let it happen. Some of the strategic elements they added to the combat with team actions were pretty interesting.

Lots of good things about that game, but the combat with animation is slow; I also don't really see the point of the randomised dungeons. Apparently Busin0 is a better game with the same engine, but it was never translated.

Only specific floors were randomized. What set it apart for me was the allied actions system that gave it more depth to the combat, and the game actually made you use this stuff. Does Busin0 have the same type of combat mechanics?

It's one of the reasons why I couldn't bring myself to even bother trying a game like Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls, because it doesn't have the allied actions system, or anything like it. Just standard rudimentary dungeon crawler with nothing that sets it apart. Even Stranger of Sword City had some unique mechanics to set it apart.
 

Ysaye

Savant
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
655
Location
Australia
Any of you play Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land for Playstation 2? I thought it was pretty good for what it was. I remember getting my cheeks spread after getting ambushed by 20 spiders which proceeded to run train on my whole group at once with a rush attack. It was fair, ambushes weren't random, you had to let an enemy make contact with your back, or fall on top of you, so you goofed bigly if you let it happen. Some of the strategic elements they added to the combat with team actions were pretty interesting.

Lots of good things about that game, but the combat with animation is slow; I also don't really see the point of the randomised dungeons. Apparently Busin0 is a better game with the same engine, but it was never translated.

Only specific floors were randomized. What set it apart for me was the allied actions system that gave it more depth to the combat, and the game actually made you use this stuff. Does Busin0 have the same type of combat mechanics?

It's one of the reasons why I couldn't bring myself to even bother trying a game like Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls, because it doesn't have the allied actions system, or anything like it. Just standard rudimentary dungeon crawler with nothing that sets it apart. Even Stranger of Sword City had some unique mechanics to set it apart.

Yes it still has allied actions, and also an even more advanced class progression with a third tier of classes that can be promoted to.
 

somerandomdude

Educated
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
125
Yes it still has allied actions, and also an even more advanced class progression with a third tier of classes that can be promoted to.

I'll play it if a translation patch ever releases, I'm not holding my breath on it though.

I took a look at the tier 3 classes, and there's no tier 3 mage class? Nothing that can cast level 7 in Wizard and Priest? Bishop could cast all spell levels in Forsaken Land.
 

Ysaye

Savant
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
655
Location
Australia
Yes it still has allied actions, and also an even more advanced class progression with a third tier of classes that can be promoted to.

I'll play it if a translation patch ever releases, I'm not holding my breath on it though.

I took a look at the tier 3 classes, and there's no tier 3 mage class? Nothing that can cast level 7 in Wizard and Priest? Bishop could cast all spell levels in Forsaken Land.

They saved level 7 Mage and Priest spells for Mages and Priests respectively, so that there is an incentive to retain characters of those classes. I suppose that is similar to Elminage having damage / healing scaling that is the best with the basic classes.
 

sorcerian

Literate
Joined
Apr 23, 2022
Messages
9
Location
ape
Any of you play Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land for Playstation 2? I thought it was pretty good for what it was. I remember getting my cheeks spread after getting ambushed by 20 spiders which proceeded to run train on my whole group at once with a rush attack. It was fair, ambushes weren't random, you had to let an enemy make contact with your back, or fall on top of you, so you goofed bigly if you let it happen. Some of the strategic elements they added to the combat with team actions were pretty interesting.
I beat it today.

qoqwHyK.png

I played it as a kid, but I forgot just how good it is. It does so many smart things that other dungeon crawlers should learn from; people mentioned the allied actions, which fundamentally change how battle is fought and elevate it above ~90% of all other turn-based systems, but it does a ton of other stuff too. You upgrade spells, which keeps lower level spells relevant throughout the whole game. It has events in the dungeon, and more events occur as you progress through the game, encouraging you to go back and explore places you've already been and breaking up the monotony of going through the dungeon multiple times. Shortcuts open up, there are interesting quests, the level design is excellent and some areas even focus on vertical exploration.

But the best thing it does is the story. It's simple, but it's gripping. The further into it you get, the more interesting it becomes, and I'm not aware of any other games with a similar premise.

The bad guy already won. The town is destroyed, everyone, including you, is dead, and you are in some kind of purgatory. Characters are the haunted memories of tragic souls, and killing the boss lets you finally die.

It's interesting! It's so simple, but really is unique, and each story beat was told well.

The worst thing about the game is its speed; it is extremely slow. Movement, animations, text scrolling. It becomes a goddamn slog, and by the end of the game it actually starts to lag in certain encounters. By floors 8, 9 and 10, I was ready to quit because it was all moving way, way too slowly. Sticking it out is difficult because the speed becomes unbearable, but it's worth it because the climax truly is very compelling.

So I'll say: it's one of the best RPGs on the PS2 and one of the best Wizardry games. I recommend it to anyone who likes dungeon crawlers or RPGs in general. It is excellent.
 

somerandomdude

Educated
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
125
They saved level 7 Mage and Priest spells for Mages and Priests respectively, so that there is an incentive to retain characters of those classes. I suppose that is similar to Elminage having damage / healing scaling that is the best with the basic classes.

In Forsaken Land, Bishop could cast all spell levels, but Wizard and Priest had more spell levels in their type, and more higher level spells at lower levels, so that was the balance.

Is the dual cast allied action still in busin0, where 2 mages power up 1 spell cast? Because I rarely ever used top level spells like megadeath, because dual cast jateal often did the job. If it's the same in Busin0, then not having top level spells on your bishop probably isn't that big of a deal, anyway. I had shurikens on my mages, so they'd participate in defensive allied actions that needed projectiles, and anything too strong for a dual cast jateal to rip was likely also too strong for a dual cast megadeath to rip, or your ninjas/samurai could have taken them out without you using a spell, so mages were put in a defensive AA. If something was small enough to show up in groups of 6 or 8, dual cast jateal had them covered, big baddies that showed up in groups of 1 or 2 likely had enough HP to even survive megadeath, or something else like ninja attack AA would have worked better, the rare situation where megadeath was justified was far fewer than I had top level spell amounts.
 
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Diablo1_reborn

Busin 0 Wizardry Alternative Neo fanatic
Patron
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
2,521
Location
Germany
They saved level 7 Mage and Priest spells for Mages and Priests respectively, so that there is an incentive to retain characters of those classes. I suppose that is similar to Elminage having damage / healing scaling that is the best with the basic classes.

In Forsaken Land, Bishop could cast all spell levels, but Wizard and Priest had more spell levels in their type, and more higher level spells at lower levels, so that was the balance.

Is the dual cast allied action still in busin0, where 2 mages power up 1 spell cast? Because I rarely ever used top level spells like megadeath, because dual cast jateal often did the job. If it's the same in Busin0, then not having top level spells on your bishop probably isn't that big of a deal, anyway. I had shurikens on my mages, so they'd participate in defensive allied actions that needed projectiles, and anything too strong for a dual cast jateal to rip was likely also too strong for a dual cast megadeath to rip, or your ninjas/samurai could have taken them out without you using a spell, so mages were put in a defensive AA. If something was small enough to show up in groups of 6 or 8, dual cast jateal had them covered, big baddies that showed up in groups of 1 or 2 likely had enough HP to even survive megadeath, or something else like ninja attack AA would have worked better, the rare situation where megadeath was justified was far fewer than I had top level spell amounts.

Yeah, there is. And Megadeath is overrated anyway.
 

somerandomdude

Educated
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
125
I decided to give Forsaken Land a replay, it's been many years since I've played it, and I managed to make it all the way to level 3 before getting COMPLETELY EVISCERATED. Maybe I'm not remembering the mechanics correctly, but I thought you could only get ambushed, I.E. the enemy strikes first if they run into your back, or fall on you, but I directly ran into this mob facing forward, and still got ambushed. It was 2 ninjas, a minor daimyo and a monk, and each ninja got critical kills, and the minor daimyo nuked a squishy with creta. 3 men down in one fight and there was fuck all I could do about it :smug:.

I do remember at some point you could sell monster parts needed to make the magic stones to this guy on level 1, and then you could buy back infinite of them to level up your spell levels, but I forget if it's level 4 or level 5 that I gotta beat to unlock it.

And there's also a class orb merchant on level 5, which I mostly used to equip characters with gear their classes couldn't use, like putting shurikens on my sorcerers/bishops so they get ninja's killing blow % on ranged AAs, and giving them spare knight armor I find, so if I do get back attacked, it's not absolutely guaranteed they die.

I do remember at some point you get soo much money from vendoring equipment drops that maxing out spells, and buying class orbs is no longer a problem.

I haven't bothered with a guide, because I played through once without one, and the quests aren't too complicated, I might have to look up how to complete some of the more obscure ones, but floor maps, what kinda cuck uses someone else's floor map in a cRPG game that maps it out for you?

Early on, the game makes you sorta roll the dice in certain situations. Such as with a group like 2 front row ninjas + monk & minor daimyo on the back row. Minor daimyo could nuke your sorc or priest, but they might target the front row, which would survive, and just need to be healed after the fight, so the choice becomes whether you want your front row to get RNG'd by ninjas so you can spell cancel AA the back row, or do you restrict shot to protect 2 front row members from getting RNG'd? The best option is to restrict shot to protect 2/3rds of the front row, but it doesn't guarantee you come out of the fight without a rip. The ninjas might decide to RNG the the guy you don't have restrict shot covering, or the daimyo nukes your priest, or potentially both. If you get in enough battles, and it's going to go badly for you at some point. You avoid that situation entirely later on by simply using dual cast jateal to nuke the whole squad, but they can still first strike you.
 
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somerandomdude

Educated
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
125
Ok, so in Forsaken Land I got a Bishop who hasn't gotten any additional spell levels after leveling from 16-18. Not even close to max spell counts.

None of my Samurais have gotten a spell level going form 15-18.

My Sorcerer just hit 20 and didn't get any additional spell levels.

What gives? Are additional spell level gains not tied to level? I remember getting all 9s on a bishop at some point in the level 35+ range when I played this before.

Also, my Sorcerer has more Priest spell levels than my Bishop does, which makes no sense at all, because the Sorc has never been a Priest.

I've been looking for info about this, and have came up with nothing. I legit think my game is bugged or something.
 

somerandomdude

Educated
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
125
Ok, in Forsaken Land, there appears to be some hidden stat that keeps track of if or how many spells you cast, and this has something to do with whether you get spell levels on level up, or possibly how many you get. I ended up taking my main character who was a samurai out to solo for a bit, and used a lot of spells, he had enough agility to act first in the areas I was fighting, so jateal/jakreta/jakuld usually did the job on large packs of trash, anything that could barrier casts like gaze hounds/chimeras, etc got hit with the weeb sword. He's got Hina's gear + the anti-evil cloak (element resists), so he's hard to kill, and anything that could RNG me like ninjas/samurai got nuked before they could act (unless I got ambushed). Level ups started rolling in, and spell levels went up very fast. Next thing I knew I was level 37 after a few dips in, after about level 25, I had enough HP to go into floors 8 through 10, and my samurai has 9s across the board in sorc and priest spells, regardless of which class I switch to, even warrior. Lots of mobs barrier single cast spells to the point where it's almost entirely pointless to use them without spell assist AA. Greater demons, had to run from those, even though they couldn't kill me, I couldn't kill them either with a solo character, you need AAs like Ninja attack to reliably drop those. 1 character levels very, very, quickly in this game, even 3 or 4 battles got me a level up from 35-36, etc.
 

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