Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

KickStarter Lords of Xulima

Courtier

Prophet
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
441
I promise I won't post in this thread anymore until after I finish the game seven times to have the right to properly speak about the game.
Even if your characters don't die, experience will never be even because they get individual rewards for using skills and events like arena fights. Characters that are lacking in one way or another are extremely easy to bring up to speed using training, M&M-style stat increase events, herbs and the amulet (I turned one of my casters into a tanky pole-user for instance). And you're entirely right, you should probably not make claims depending on knowledge of a game you admitted you didn't get much farther than the very first area in.
 

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
Village Idiot Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
1,096
Yeah really. Between the arena and thief skills there's a 2 level gap without considering deaths. Sure I could have made it more even, I'd rather have one supercharged arena character since some characters benefit more from experience than others anyways.
 

Roqua

Prospernaut
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual In My Safe Space
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
4,130
Location
YES!
If I think an indie game isn't that good I usually just pretend it doesn't exist rather than bad mouth it. Especially when you can tell a lot of passion and love went in to it. And doubly especially when it is a real crpg made for crpg fans.

I tried Lords of Xulima a couple times and just greatly disliked the character development and the magic mechanics. I just thought it was poorly designed. I didn't think it was too challenging as I excel at exploiting systems; but when I beat a system by stacking 2 classes and just think the mechanics are bad and ham, it is hard to get into the game or enjoy it, which I didn't at all.

I just noticed it now has workshop and I was looking through the mods and saw one names magic overhaul. I reinstall Xulima and the mod and I am having a blast. I went from really disliking the game to really, really enjoying it. There were some other overhauls but this is the first one I clicked on and completely agreed with the author's spiel. I'm copy/pasting below, but the point of this post is if you tried Xulima before and didn't like it, but in general like crpgs, try this or another mechanic changing mod and see if your opinion changes as dramatically as mine did. here is the copy/paste of the intro of the mod -

The purpose of this mod is to overhaul spells, skills, character progression and general combat behaviour to alter certain aspects of it that were unsatisfying, tedious or boring.

Almost all combat abilities in Lords of Xulima cost a lot of power and power management is almost non-existent. Combined with an abundance of easy fights, it leads to a certain mindset of just getting the fights over with, with as little strategy as possible. Where we should be asking the question "Which awsome spell am I going to use against that foe?", it often ends up as "Is it worth wasting half my power bar for this fight?"... and the answer to the second question is always the same.

When building your character there is often a similar problem. Most spells are just replaced by a better spell soon after, leaving spellcasters with the constant feeling of wasting their skill points. Instead of asking ourselves "Which awsome spell am I going to improve?", it usually ends up "Is it worth learning this spell for the 2-3 hours of playtime I'll actually be using it for?" Again, the answer to the second question is almost always the same.

In addition to skill changes that (hopefully) make characters more interesting to build and play in combat, monsters have seen some heavy rebalancing as well. The intent is to take out as many easy "grind" fights and replace them with more challenging encounters.

Keep in mind this mod is primarily balanced around hardcore difficulty, though it is not my intent to create an "Ultimate Challenge" kind of mod. A last word of warning: this mod plays a lot better with a balanced party. Healing and mitigating damage are a lot more important now. Wounds, support-healing and defense/evasion are required to survive the rebalanced encounters.

The changes listed on this front page are only highlights. For a more in depth description af changes visit the discussion section.
 

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
Village Idiot Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
1,096
Very curious if anyone can beat Deepest Dark by "stacking 2 classes".
 

Roqua

Prospernaut
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual In My Safe Space
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
4,130
Location
YES!
I have no idea what deepest dark is, but I do know by stacking two classes (other than the one I was inflected with) I was able to blow through the first map with no issues at all and then stopped playing because I thought the game was designed so poorly. Whereas when I built 5 different classes I ended up having 3 people that sucked really, really bad and couldn't perform at all. I don't want to have to carry shit hoping that in the late game they get better. I want all my people to be able to pull their weight. This mod allows that for the most part, besides the one I was inflicted with doesn't perform as well as my 5 other classes I chose. This mod makes the game enjoyable to me, and I hope to other people who support indie devs and real crpgs but didn't care for the vanilla design of this game.
 

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
Village Idiot Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
1,096
Wait, you only did the first map? So little easy goblins and that's it? Ok. I thought you found a serious class imbalance problem or were one of those mace soldier stack LOL sorts. Either way, I mentioned my mod because it's aimed at specifically preventing that sort of thing, so if you wanna try breaking it on purpose go ahead, it will be useful testing information.
 

Roqua

Prospernaut
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual In My Safe Space
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
4,130
Location
YES!
Ah, I get it now. Deepest Dark is a mod; I thought it was an area in the later game. Just FYI, you should add something to the name as it sounds like the name of a map adding mod or scenario, not a game difficulty mod. Maybe I'm an idiot but I look for keywords in game change or overhaul mods that indicate it somehow changes the game or overhauls an aspect of it.

I would be very interested in a challenge mod as long as it changed the fundamental mechanics I feel make the game not enjoyable. I would be really interested in a mod that cut out the grinding and had very minimal amounts of combat that was filler and most if not all the encounters were changed into meaningful boss-like encounters.

You should try the other mod I mentioned and maybe incorporate his or her skill changes into your mod, because I really think the vanilla game is just not fun at all. I can try your mod now with a ham party I believe will be able to handle whatever you throw at me within reason, but I can't play a game very much if I dislike the fundamental mechanics or character progression.

What game are you talking about with your rant about unethical devs, etc, in your mod description?
 

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
Village Idiot Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
1,096
The name is somewhat iconic now, because it's associated with making a walking simulator and worse (Derpest Dungeon) an actual game. Map editing is not currently possible with the available mod resources, though I will add more once it is.

Without knowing what you found unenjoyable, I can't say what I did about it. As for the grinding, there's a lot more meaningful encounters added. I did deliberately leave in some filler, both as a means of creating peaks and valleys and because the hard fights bleed so much resources that the game would literally be unwinnable if I didn't give you a means or recovery. I define grind as combats you can effortlessly plow through in the same way, there's a lot less of that.

I am aware of that mod. I rejected most of its changes as being poor ideas immediately on the grounds the author loves making a bunch of skills massive skill point sinks with little returns. This does not make skills mo0re useful, and does not result in people using a greater variety of skills, it has the opposite effect as skill point costs are the biggest bottleneck on skill acquisition. Don't take that as shittalking other mods or modmakers, it just does the opposite of what is intended and is therefore poor design. I have a pretty good idea of what your "ham" party is, and if I've done my job right it won't work for very long. But we will see.

There's already a workshop thread about it, let me know how it goes there.
 

Roqua

Prospernaut
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual In My Safe Space
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
4,130
Location
YES!
Okay, my issues are stated exactly like the mod author said. Are you addressing these issues in your mod or do you not see them as issues? posting below since he said the same thing I think.-

Almost all combat abilities in Lords of Xulima cost a lot of power and power management is almost non-existent. Combined with an abundance of easy fights, it leads to a certain mindset of just getting the fights over with, with as little strategy as possible. Where we should be asking the question "Which awsome spell am I going to use against that foe?", it often ends up as "Is it worth wasting half my power bar for this fight?"... and the answer to the second question is always the same.

When building your character there is often a similar problem. Most spells are just replaced by a better spell soon after, leaving spellcasters with the constant feeling of wasting their skill points. Instead of asking ourselves "Which awsome spell am I going to improve?", it usually ends up "Is it worth learning this spell for the 2-3 hours of playtime I'll actually be using it for?" Again, the answer to the second question is almost always the same.

With his mod my mage and bard can be useful at all times. I am bringing a paladin through, but wish he was a cleric because I need to heal almost every fight now and do not really get a chance to use him and I have to build him as a pure healer anyways. He can barely take a hit better than the bard and mage too, so that was just a poor choice with this mod.
 

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
Village Idiot Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
1,096
If you try derping through with auto attacks as quickly as possible you lose every non trivial fight. Simple. So yes, you will use your abilities. The cost of abilities doesn't become obscene until higher levels, which 1: You've never tried. 2: The mod hasn't implemented yet. When I do reach that point, which will happen much faster with external testers higher level skills will 1: Have their effects greatly increased so they are worth it as a massive nuke. 2: Have their costs greatly decreased, so that it better matches their average effect. 3: Both a power increase and cost decrease.

Additionally, mages are actually a viable class as situations exist that emphasize their strengths (elemental weaknesses and AoE, as well as asshole back row enemies). Class balance is by no means a done deal, it's barely even started even. As for skills becoming obsolete... they will, but after serving you well. You could get away with having this dead weight character who ignored everything but the highest level skills before, that's no longer true. And with the game's flat scaling, I can't see it being true in his mod either. 30 level skills cannot be relevant for 70 levels, that is the entire reason Divine Summoner is the worst class in the game.
 

gunman

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
1,050
Divine Summoner is the worst class in the game and Mage is second worst but it honestly doesn't matter that much, you can still beat the game with them.

From my experience, playing hardcore ironman, divine summoner is a life saver against the tough bosses. Before battle split the party in two to have the middle column empty, and summon kersket in the middle. He is immune to bleeding, poison, wounding, and very tough, and the enemy will waste half of its attacks against him.
 
Last edited:

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
Village Idiot Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
1,096
What tough bosses? The boss fights in this game are really anti climatic, normal enemies are much more of a threat. And he dies from 1 hit from basically everything, so it doesn't much matter if statuses don't work (it might matter if enemies spam spells on him, but by that point your entire party should have effective immunity (90%) anyways).
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
After a slow beginning I started to like this game. Kind of reminds me of Might & Magic X for some reason - and I really liked that one. The gating off of areas, especially in the beginning is kind of annoying and MMX had the same problem. Once I got to the first tower and castle, that's where it was really fun. Also liked the glacier thing.
 

Electryon

Savant
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
191
Location
Stuck on Axeoth
After a slow beginning I started to like this game. Kind of reminds me of Might & Magic X for some reason - and I really liked that one. The gating off of areas, especially in the beginning is kind of annoying and MMX had the same problem. Once I got to the first tower and castle, that's where it was really fun. Also liked the glacier thing.

Lords of Xulima is more of a Might & Magic game than Might & Magic X is, and I quite like Might and Magic X. The only thing that prevents Xulima from being the ultimate modern Might & Magic clone is the isometric travel and movement. The world map is a straight rip from any M&M game you want to pick. But it's more in how the scope and immensity of the world is implemented. Every single Might and Magic game, at the very least, gives you content coming out the ears, and Xulima is right up that alley as well.
 

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,422
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
LoX%20II.jpg
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,280
Gaulen might just be the derpiest and weirdest protagonist in a long while. At least he ain't no pussy and he's sorta memorable.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,317
Yeah the dude was like a typical grim serious action protagonist with a gravely voice but whenever he spoke to a villain and the villain started making him question his objectives he always was like "ehm.. umm... FUCK YOU I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG" it was kinda funny.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
Yeah, the writing in this game is kind of full of old, tired cliches - but I guess that's fantasy.

One thing I miss are random events where you actually have to make a choice (like in Star Trail), instead of just being informed that "you found gold!!1" or "you did some hunting".
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom