[LP CYOA] 傳

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Awesome! Flopping to B XI VII.

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

I fear that we are becoming over-reliant on the WQS and that we are treating it as some magical get-out-of-jail-for-free card.

In pretty much every fight that we have fought, we have needed to pull it out because we would have lost otherwise. If, for some reason, it were to fail, then we would be without anything else o go on. I feel like we are crippling ourselves by investing so much into it. All the other masters became masters because of their fighting ability. They did so without the WQS, yet, somehow, they can still beat us. The time has come for us to continue improving our innate fighting ability and not completely relying on the WQS to get us out of trouble, because if there ever comes a time where it doesn't work, we are going to be fucked.

 

[Nevill]

There are some techniques that have innate copyright protection on them. Not because the neigong of their practitioner is too strong, but because they are just hard to perceive.

Bai's Jiuying Zhiyu Sword is one such technique, and the Butterfly Formation looks like it might be another.

You can't expect to get through life just by constantly slamming WQS button at every opportunity. It pays being worth something on your own.

But I guess 'WQS level 4 instant awesome!' is too good to resist.

 

[Esquilax]

Kashmir Slippers, here's the thing. I don't think any sword technique we learn right now will be a decisive game changer. They aren't that powerful. At best, it will let us scrape by a few more fights without using Wuxiang Qiankun until we are in over our heads again and have to use it. Once we use Wuxiang Qiankun, we are better off using it damn near all the time. If we get Wuxiang Qiankun up to rank 3 right now, then we can use it against everyone and I am damn sure that any technique we can copy from those sword masters will beat the shit out of anything we can learn right now from our buddies.

Besides, we can copy these techniques you want to learn right now with Wuxiang Qiankun in a fight. So here's the thing: You invest time in learning a technique, and we can use it in a fight - OR - you don't invest time in learning a technique, and we use Wuxiang Qiankun to use it in a fight anyway.

The benefits to learning new techniques right now is too low considering the fact that we all know we're just going to be openly using Wuxiang Qiankun from now on.

In practice, it's not the same thing. First, as I mentioned before, in the Great Sword Conference, our technique copying won't be as effective because the Yuchang Sword can't copy the unique properties of each Great Sword. Secondly, another issue is that we can only mimic techniques while in Order mode. If we learn the technique itself, we'll be able to perform them in Order mode AND in Chaos mode, giving us more versatility. Being able to perform Zhang's eye lasers or Armaiti's Dingdong Step while simultaneously being able to do our qi-leeching is a huge benefit that we otherwise wouldn't get through pure mimicry.

Bottom line, Kashmir Slippers is 100% correct, there are situations where it doesn't work, and we MUST diversify.

 

[Absinthe]

Here's the thing, Kashmir Slippers. By investing into Wuxiang Qiankun, we reduce the moments when Wuxiang Qiankun doesn't work.

You are also neglecting the mystery boosts that Wuxiang Qiankun provides. First time it gave us +2 qinggong (+1 agi, run higher walls, elude more grapples) with a cap boost and +1 to stealth. Last time it gave us +1 to int which gave us the insight to counter the monks' counter during the leeching battle. This is ignoring the power of actually using the technique itself in a fight.

These mystery boosts are some really solid benefits. When you're thinking of overreliance on the technique, you are neglecting the fact that we get some really solid passive bonuses which work outside the times when we use Wuxiang Qiankun.

Esquilax, it might not be as effective as the real thing (that would be way too fucking easy, cakewalk everything), but I think these swordmasters' techniques would still be more effective than any other techniques we could have learned in the meantime.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Well, on the other hand, WQS has many passive bonuses and will eventually help us to learn more actual techniques faster. It's hard because the likelihood of it being useless in a fight increases if we leave it the same level, as we face stronger opponents, but as we increase level it becomes more and more useful in every fight. It's a broken skill, remember. We should have never taught it to Bai. I have a feeling that will come back to haunt us soon.

 

[Absinthe]

Bai Jiutian doesn't know about meditation dangers and there have been so many people who failed at learning it in the first place. We also needed to ensure Bai's loyalty and those sword techniques we gained from him will definitely be very useful in the fights to come.

 

[Elfberserker]

Well, on the other hand, WQS has many passive bonuses and will eventually help us to learn more actual techniques faster. It's hard because the likelihood of it being useless in a fight increases if we leave it the same level, as we face stronger opponents, but as we increase level it becomes more and more useful in every fight. It's a broken skill, remember. We should have never taught it to Bai. I have a feeling that will come back to haunt us soon.

Unless he never regains consciuness while meditating WQS

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Bai isn't going to go comatose because of WQS. She's too good for that. At every turn Bai has either equaled or surpassed us - and that was without her having WQS. With it, I fear she'll be unstoppable.

edit: we can only hope that finally getting off because of Jing's "help" will somehow cool her angry bitch side down enough for her to not want to kill us every chance she gets...

 

[Nevill]

Well, on the other hand, WQS has many passive bonuses and will eventually help us to learn more actual techniques faster. It's hard because the likelihood of it being useless in a fight increases if we leave it the same level, as we face stronger opponents, but as we increase level it becomes more and more useful in every fight. It's a broken skill, remember. We should have never taught it to Bai. I have a feeling that will come back to haunt us soon.

You can only copy what you can perceive. No amount of leveling will help you use the broken skill to mimic a technique that was meant to be imperceptible.

Bai isn't going to go comatose because of WQS. She's too good for that. At every turn Bai has either equaled or surpassed us - and that was without her having WQS. With it, I fear she'll be unstoppable.

Good, Yunzi needs a bit of competition for the spot of our fated wife. She had become lax lately.

 

[Absinthe]

Actually, Nevill, I'm pretty sure leveling Wuxiang Qiankun helps us out with these edge cases. We didn't have an innate sense for "flawless understanding of target's neigong" in the first place but using Wuxiang Qiankun gave us one. Order mode gave us perception bonuses too. I suspect that as we improve Wuxiang Qiankun, we will also become more adept at seeing through these techniques.

Lambchop19, Bai Jiutian only has 7 int, judging by the weiqi match where we stalemated her. Without a neigong like ours, I have my doubts on how much progress she can make, especially since we didn't give her any thorough explanation of the skill and just passed some of the basics to her. Also, at this stage we're pretty much trying to add BJ to the harem.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

You can only copy what you can perceive. No amount of leveling will help you use the broken skill to mimic a technique that was meant to be imperceptible.

Maybe, but not every technique is like that and the point is that there's more to WQS than copying. Stat bonuses like getting our neigong to 9 or 10 is another reason to level it, for example.

 

[Nevill]

Maybe, but not every technique is like that and the point is that there's more to WQS than copying.

Well, I am sure that by the time we get to the instant awesome part of the skill, as people seem to point out in their arguments (that I consider pretty bad), every second technique will be like that or similarly broken to maintain the level of challenge.

Looking at the list of Legendary techniques, there are some you don't want to be used on you even once. I am not convinced I want to let the opponent have enough time to execute them to then copy them.

I get the passive bonuses part, but can't we get at least *one* technique that isn't WQS? Just look at the tally.

We are still a glass cannon - even more so since we are relying on the Orderly side of our neigong more and more, - and we do nothing to remedy that.

 

[Absinthe]

Well, if you insist on delaying the moment when we obtain such bonuses, then yes, the likelihood of that certainly increases. But I think if we get these benefits early, we will get some good moments where we cakewalk over others.

Lets not forget that if we chose to give Yang Xue Qilin's arm then we would have exited the cave as a monster capable of beating just about everyone. If we kept on leeching masters into the ground from there on out, we would even be able to beat Super Ahura with legendary techniques.

So there are ways to pull out ahead of the competition. You just have to dedicate yourself to doing it (like voting Wuxiang Qiankun).

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

I am not overlooking the "mystery bonuses" that the WQS has given us. In fact, I think that you guys are overstating them.

Let us look at what it has given us, and how it affects our ability to fight:

+1 Sneak: This is cool and all, but it doesn't affect our ability to fight. We don't often find ourselves in a situation that sneaking helps us, so this boost is circumstantial.
+2 Qinggong: This raised a cap that we had yet to hit. As far as I can see, it has done absolutely nothing for us If we were pushing our cap, then I would say other wise, but I don't see how raiing a cap from 8 to 10 when our skill is 6 makes that big of a difference. I don't remember if it made our Mad Wolf Step better or not, but still, that is more of a toggle-able skill than a constant boost.
+1 INT: Granted I loved this boost because I like smart Jing, but again, it doesn't really affect our combat that much. Yes, it makes us better learners and gives us better caps, but these strike me as non-combat benefits.

I am not saying that we haven't gotten nice things in a way, but I do not think we should bank on the boosts. Not only do we not know what we might get, we don't even know if we will get a boost. We should treat the gains as a bonus after the fact instead of voting for them just because of what they might be. Besides, the next one may be +3 to bows or scholarly knowledge or something like that. The other boosts haven't been exactly 100% combat related.

I feel like we are hitting a bad point where we are getting ahead of ourselves and thinking that we cannot be beaten.

Instead of taking tried and true boosts to our actual combat ability, we are banking on bells and whistles. We are already running ahead before we have even caught the ball, if you all excuse my cliche.

 

[ChumBucket]

We are still a glass cannon - even more so since we are relying on the Orderly side of our neigong more and more, - and we do nothing to remedy that.

Hence is why I am advocating defensive techs, I am hoping at least one will win.

 

[Nevill]

Hence is why I am advocating defensive techs, I am hoping at least one will win.

So do I, except I consider Manly Roar to be on par with their usefulness, since better control of the battlefield directly translates into your survivability.

 

[Absinthe]

Kashmir Slippers, uh no.

+1 Stealth: It allowed us to infiltrate Bai Jiutian's place.
+2 Qinggong: Are you crazy? That's a +1 agi in every single fight we've had since then. No, that was damn useful. It's how we improved our evasion and ability to land hits.
+1 Int: It was this insight that allowed us to beat the 9 venerable elders' counter technique in the leeching battle. High perception and int (or high skill) is how we do the countering game in a fight.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Hence is why I am advocating defensive techs, I am hoping at least one will win.

So do I, except I consider Manly Roar to be on par with their usefulness, since better control of the battlefield directly translates into your survivability.

Not to mention it's probably our only chance to learn it for a long time, if not for the rest of the LP.

 

[Nevill]

The 'way' to pull ahead of competition is to sit in a dark cave until the LP ends.

I am pretty sure that by the time we reach Huashan Summit, which is close to when we would have left the cave, we will far surpass whatever Yang Xue could have taught us. In fact, I am pretty sure we'll have a chance to test that theory against zhang manxing.

 

[Absinthe]

Yang Xue is a monster surpassing Wang Zhengchong. I'm pretty sure he would fucking murder us right now. We need legendary techniques to hope to match him, although I am holding out for Asahina diplomacy with Yunzi against YX.

If you want to beat Yang Xue, then you should be focusing on legendary techniques.

 

[Elfberserker]

One last post before going to asleep.

I am fairly sure that I have miscounted somewhere, but's your problem guys now.


Current Tally:

Eryfkrad A V VI

Asxetos A VI VIII

AkkuDakku A X>VII XI>IV

Jester A VIII VII

Tropic A V X>XI

Azira A X XI

Baltika9 A VI VII>V

Chumbucket B V VIII

Elfberserker B V>VII VI

Nevill A V>VIII, VI

Kz3r0 A X XI

Ifeek - X XI

Ganymede A IV VII

Kipeci A X XI

Tigranes - VI XI

Absinthe A X XI

Esquilax B VI VII

XenomorphII A VII IX

Tome A, V XI>X.

Fangshi A VI VIII

Kashim Slippers A IV VIII

Rex Feral A X XI

Archaen B. X XI > X VI

Lambchop19 B XI VII

Tribute - V VIII


Current tally

A: 18
-: 2
B: 5
.............

IV: 2 (3) You learn the Liushen Shanshen Great Skill (六聖善神大法, Spenta Ormazd Great Skill),
V: 7 (conditional 8) V. You learn the Dingdi Step (定地步, Earth-Stabilizing Step)
VI: 8 (9) VI. You learn the Xiongshi Violent Roar (雄狮暴吼, Manly Lion’s Violent Roar)
VII: 6 (8) VII. Zhang Jue’s Jinshe Baojun Fiery Eye (金蛇暴君火眼, Fiery Eye of the Serpent Tyrant),

VIII: 6 (conditional 7 ) VIII. You learn the Taiji Fist and Taiji Sword
IX: 1 IX Yiyang Finger (一陽指, One Yang Finger)
X: 9 (conditional 10) X. You meditate on Wuxiang Qiankun,
XI: 11 ( 12) XI. You meditate on Wuxiang Qiankun with Xuezi’s help

 

[Nevill]

And yet again the point was completely missed.

 

[Esquilax]

But I guess 'WQS level 4 instant awesome!' is too good to resist.

And what about when we eventually do get to WQS Level 4? At that point, we'll see who has the legendary techniques from the Xuanming Jiuyin Holy Art and the Xiaoming Jiuyang Divine Skill and the same line of argumentation will begin anew: "Guys, our current level of WQS isn't enough to mimic their skills, but trust me, we don't need to learn these techniques, because when we get to Level 7, we'll memorize legendary techniques instantly!"

It's a bad argument. Okay, MYSTARY boosts are one thing, and they have helped, but we are getting dangerously close to treating WQS as some sort of magic bullet. While Lambchop19 does make some good points in that it's a balancing act (if you invest in it, of course you're going to rely on it more) given the context of the situation with the Sword Conference (where WQS won't be as useful), the level of fighters that we'll be facing, and the opportunity to learn some killer moves from Master Zhang, we would be so much better served with improving our fundamental, bread-and-butter martial arts skill.

 

[Baltika9]

Elfberserker, if we reach rank 4 the first thing we are doing is finding Xuxian and learning that massive neigong boosting tech of his if we didn't learn one already.

Except he swore an oath to not teach it to anyone.