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Baltika9

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Because "a rebellious orphan raised in a convent" is a very real possibility. In fact, it reminds of Neeshka from NWN2 OC.

I also brought this up earlier: she must be a very capable student to have been placed on the Team. The nuns definitely got tired of our shit after the fifth try, so they tried a new approach on a developing adolescent male that has been stuck on an island for eighteen months, pussy.
 

treave

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I always figured that they took the older nuns on the dangerous duties because of their skill and experience. The fact that they aren't in their physical prime anymore isn't really that much of an issue if they have a lot of techniques, neigong, and qinggong. Or at least, that's why I thought they were so old. I mean, Master Yao isn't exactly a young guy either, but he's clearly not to be fucked with.

That's not wrong, but it could also suggest a dearth of new candidates for the Castration Squad, if the only person they can replace a vet with is an untested newbie. Nuns are old because no one ever manned up to replace them, that sorta thing.
 

Baltika9

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That's not wrong, but it could also suggest a dearth of new candidates for the Castration Squad, if the only person they can replace a vet with is an untested newbie. Nuns are old because no one ever manned up to replace them, that sorta thing.
So they used Jing as a training dummy, then? It's possible, but I thought they really wanted their sword back, enough that they made a pilgrimage every three months to try and take it. And I don't think they'd send such an innocent, beautiful and air headed young girl to deal with such a rakish young troll like Jing, not if they wanted the sword back.

In which case getting close to us is exactly what she wants, either way she won't work for our benefit. Put me down for A.
 
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Tigranes

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I don't think we need to go so far as to be convinced of Yifeng's Shulginess/Rogueness or that she is a calamitously innocent pathological truth-teller. All we need to do is do a very reasonable and common sensical reading of the update to realise B is, just like D, clearly suboptimal.

We understood this with, say, Cao'er; we knew better than to put her in situations where she would need to fight, and when the update told us she can be reasonably discreet we also took that on board. With Yifeng we get repeated and consistent descriptions of her not being particularly useful at fighting, stupid/naive enough to fall for other people's persuasions (when we tell her 'get to know the man'), thick enough to go on and on about turning a new leaf, etc.
 
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So what is the plan with A actually? Go blindly into a complex large enough to hold about a thousand people and try to sneak into the prison that we have no idea where it is? Or just sneak around trying to find some evidence or clue that we don't even know exists, let alone how it looks like? Come on, there is a reason thieves case the target before breaking in. We could be stumbling around all night and not find what we are looking for. We need information before going there - at the very least a layout of the place and the location of where they are holding prisoners.

B gives us that and more, easily. Even if we can't reason with these people (and there is a fair chance we might - after all, sneaking and fighting are not our only talents, we also have a considerable speech skill and charisma), I see no reason why they would deny us the opportunity to see and speak with Yao and Cao'er. Why would they - this is a perfectly reasonable request. The nun is here to get us to her boss friend, we can take it from there. We don't even have to lie. And if it doesn't work, then we can decide whether we should try stealth or busting heads next - only this time with more information to decide on.
 

Nevill

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I don't think they keep their prisoners in the kitchen. That severely narrows the search area.

Where there is a dungeon, or guards, there is the prison. We don't need some mysterious clue (a clue to what, exactly, are you talking about?). We need to speak to Yao.
 
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It's still a large place - finding the prison and one prisoner in it is not going to be easy while sneaking if we don't know where to look and how many guards we can expect. How many buildings are we going to have to check out before we stumble on the right one? And even if we do find him without raising an alarm or killing anyone (which would pretty much make diplomatic solution impossible later on), then what? We could sneak Yao out, sure, but Cao'er - I seriously doubt it. As for clues, I meant clues to what is happening, who is responsible for the death of the previous master. If Yao just tells us he didn't do it and we don't find any, we are right back where we started and whole effort was a waste of time.

And really, why wouldn't they let us see the prisoners if we simply ask them to? If all we want is to talk to Yao and Cao'er, why bother with stealth if there is an easier and less risky alternative?
 

Nevill

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Zero Credibility said:
And even if we do find him without raising an alarm or killing anyone (which would pretty much make diplomatic solution impossible later on), then what? We could sneak Yao out, sure, but Cao'er - I seriously doubt it.
We were outsneaking the fucking tigers back in the jungles. We'll manage not to raise the alarm.

We don't need to sneak anyone out just yet, we go there in search of information. You won't find a better clue than asking Yao himself.

Zero Credibility said:
If Yao just tells us he didn't do it and we don't find any, we are right back where we started and whole effort was a waste of time.
If he didn't do it, then who did? Who framed him for the murder and why, to the point that he had to flee and hide? We will at least know something.

Zero Credibility said:
And really, why wouldn't they let us see the prisoners if we simply ask them to?
Why would they? What business is that of ours? Even if we manage to convince them somehow, do you think Lingshu would just stand there and listen to Yao explaining how and why he killed her father? And if she is somehow connected to his death, then what? Interacting with Lingshu with no prior information sounds even crazier, and most assuredly pointless.

Oh, and what becomes of our incognito identity once we see the prisoners? I am sure neither Yao nor Cao'er will give us away in shock.
 
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Tigranes

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I'm all for casing the joint, but with Ain't Gonna Lie-Feng in tow with the daughter who may or may not be sympathetic to Yao's plight, I don't rate our chances of 'casing' well very high.

And if we instead went up and asked to see the prisoners, again, best do without Yifeng... an Emei nun who seems distraught and keeps saying odd things + a stranger who won't be perfectly clear on his identity?
 

Baltika9

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My paranoia as to her origins aside and taking the situation as it is, A is the only right way to go to maintain our secrecy: as much as I feel that there's way more to her than first meets the eye and that no one can be that saccharine, basing my vote on that would mean playing with Yao's and Cao'er's safety and that is unacceptable, the three of us are getting out of this alive.

Yifang has shown herself to be absolutely naive and innocent and the School Head is her friend. All of what we've heard points to a "I can save everyone, WHY WON'T ANYONE LISTEN!?" syndrome. What she'll likely try in B is this: "My friend, please, you must let him see those two, this is Xu Jing, Master Yao's former apprentice and knows he is a good man. Please! *sob*" If we want to maintain secrecy, that is also unacceptable. We have badass stealth and acrobatics training, we can even run up low walls, Prince of Persia style:
Kuanglang Step. (狂狼步 Mad Wolf Step).
Level 4: You can move quietly at running speed in normal surroundings and hold yourself still in shadows. You can also shrug off poor grapplers, tumble, roll and dodge acrobatically, as well as run up low walls. (+2 Sneak, +1 Agility)
,so the school shouldn't be much challenge. That is better than exposing ourselves like this.

treave, does this:
After your ordeal in the jungle, during which you developed a combined qinggong skill out of your fundamental knowledge, your martial arts training began in earnest – your regimen was strict and brutal, with no time to even sleep. You were kept awake and functional by ingestion of raw snake and bear gall bladders that Zhang ripped out.
Mean we are better adjusted to seeing in the night and staying focused than the average human?
 
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Zero Credibility said:
And even if we do find him without raising an alarm or killing anyone (which would pretty much make diplomatic solution impossible later on), then what? We could sneak Yao out, sure, but Cao'er - I seriously doubt it.
We were outsneaking the fucking tigers back in the jungles. We'll manage not to raise the alarm.

We don't need to sneak anyone out just yet, we go there in search of information. You won't find a better clue than asking Yao himself.
Maybe, maybe not. But if we fuck up, then what? We have just destroyed our chance at peacefully resolving the situation - nobody would believe the guy that tried to bust out the prisoners the night before. So, before we go sneaking around, why not just try to get to Yao by asking to see him? Isn't that a hell of a lot simpler and less risky? What's the worst thing that could happen, they say no? Compare that to the worst case scenario if we get caught sneaking.

Zero Credibility said:
If Yao just tells us he didn't do it and we don't find any, we are right back where we started and whole effort was a waste of time.
If he didn't do it, then who did? Who framed him for the murder and why, to the point that he had to flee and hide? We will at least know something.
Which is why we should be talking to as many people there as we can, starting with the daughter in charge and Yao.

Zero Credibility said:
And really, why wouldn't they let us see the prisoners if we simply ask them to?
Why would they? What business is that of ours? Even if we manage to convince them somehow, do you think Lingshu would just stand there and listen to Yao explaining how and why he killed her father? And if she is somehow connected to his death, then what? Interacting with Lingshu with no prior information sounds even crazier, and most assuredly pointless.
Because we came with the friend and wish to repay our debt to Yao by finding out what happened? Because we are charismatic and good at convincing people?

Oh, and what becomes of our incognito identity once we see the prisoners? I am sure neither Yao nor Cao'er will give us away in shock.
So what? Our cover story is that they both know us anyway.
 

Tigranes

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Maybe, maybe not. But if we fuck up, then what? We have just destroyed our chance at peacefully resolving the situation

Applies to B, C, and D also. The only question is: which options do we have concrete indications from treave's updates to make us think there's a higher chance of failure? B, given Yifeng; D, given our previous decision to participate in the tournament.

What's the worst thing that could happen, they say no?

We've just spent 7 pages talking about 'the worst thing that could happen', and many 'not the worst but realistically bad things that could happen'.

Look, it boils down to this: do you trust in the stealth abilities and attributes we've built up, or do you trust this Yifeng girl? Which do you trust to deliver results that are not 'the worst that could happen'? Because the 'worst that could happen' is pretty bad for both, and thinking B is a no-risk call is extremely naive.
 
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Look, it boils down to this: do you trust in the stealth abilities and attributes we've built up, or do you trust this Yifeng girl? Which do you trust to deliver results that are not 'the worst that could happen'? Because the 'worst that could happen' is pretty bad for both, and thinking B is a no-risk call is extremely naive.
No, no, no. It's do we trust the stealth abilities and attributes we've built up or do we trust our speech and charisma we have build. We will be do one doing the talking, not Yifeng - she is just our ticket to talk to the boss. Treave said as much already. And while B is not risk free, it definitely sounds a lot safer then skulking around in a completely unknown compound with hundreds of people around.
 

ScubaV

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Given that we will be negotiating, not Yifeng, I will vote B. Why? Simple, Speech 5 > Sneak 3.
 
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treave

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treave, does this:Mean we are better adjusted to seeing in the night and staying focused than the average human?

You're better at staying focused due to your martial arts training. As for seeing in the dark, not really. You only have 6 PER after all.
 

Esquilax

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So what is the plan with A actually? Go blindly into a complex large enough to hold about a thousand people and try to sneak into the prison that we have no idea where it is? Or just sneak around trying to find some evidence or clue that we don't even know exists, let alone how it looks like? Come on, there is a reason thieves case the target before breaking in. We could be stumbling around all night and not find what we are looking for. We need information before going there - at the very least a layout of the place and the location of where they are holding prisoners.

Now we've hit the crux of the choice here and it has nothing to do with which attributes we trust, though our CHA/Speech and AGI/Stealth are both quite good. If things were just as simple as picking which skills we're best at, this whole situation would be a lot easier. The trade-off between A and B is this: A involves going in blind and without a plan, while B involves going in with a massive liability in Yifeng (i.e. a plan, just not a very good one). So why would I pick A over B? Because I just don't see her being able to hold up our cover story. Based on that, relying on ourselves seems to be a much better bet than relying on someone who we need for a task that they're not suited for.

You also haven't come up with any reason why they would allow us to speak to Yao to begin with. The logic of "I don't see why they wouldn't let us talk to him" isn't very convincing when you haven't really described why they would. This girl apparently lost her father to Yao, why would she let some stranger with close ties to him talk to him?

Given that we will be negotiating, not Yifeng, I will vote B. Why? Simple, Speech 5 > Sneak 3.

We should be very careful with that logic. While playing to our strengths makes sense, things are never as simple as applying our best skills to every situation that we come across. Context matters a lot: we have an Unarmed skill of 5 and great physical stats, but we know it's not wise to pick fights with guys like Zhang simply because that's what we happen to be good at, because we'll get our asses kicked. Similarly, our silver tongue isn't going to be of any use if we have Yifeng's naivete undermining us.

This is why sneaking into the place will prove to be a more beneficial way of getting information - we don't have to necessarily get Yao or Cao'er out of there right there and then. We could sneak in, discover where they're located and talk to Yao to understand the situation from the source that we trust the most to have the full facts here. You guys are right when you say that it would be foolish to bust them both out then and there, though: we aren't going to be getting the both of them out of there.

Really, I think that the only surefire way of getting them both out is actually C. We'll probably have to give up the Yuchang Sword, but the Abbess will be grateful enough to pull some strings for us.

That's not wrong, but it could also suggest a dearth of new candidates for the Castration Squad, if the only person they can replace a vet with is an untested newbie. Nuns are old because no one ever manned up to replace them, that sorta thing.

If they have a dearth of candidates, they wouldn't have left her behind like that in the first place, no? Do the more ascetic sects like the Shaolin and the Emei have fewer members in general? I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case, given the level of dedication and sacrifice that joining them would entail.
 

treave

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.
If they have a dearth of candidates, they wouldn't have left her behind like that in the first place, no? Do the more ascetic sects like the Shaolin and the Emei have fewer members in general? I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case, given the level of dedication and sacrifice that joining them would entail.

I don't see why not, if they've agreed to meet back at Emei should they get separated. Worried that the young one won't make it? Well, Jing interfered on an impulse when she was cornered, but she wasn't exactly defeated yet, was she? Or should we always judge Jing's skill by his first half performance against Rong Zhiyu?

The ascetic sects do have fewer members, but still number at least three hundred or more.

***

ERYFKRAD - A
Kashmir Slippers - C > B
Zero Credibility - B
Kipeci - B
Azira - A
Jester - A
Ifeex - B > A > D
Storyfag - D
Smashing Axe - B
Esquilax - A
Bloodshifter - D > B
Grimgravy - A
XenomorphII - B
Lambchop19 - B
TOME - B
Stygian Lurker - B > D
Nevill - A
Tigranes - A > C
The Brazilian Slaughter - A
Baltika9 - A
ScubaV - A
LWC1996 - A

***

Current tally:

A - 11, B - 8, C - 1, D - 2
 
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Esquilax

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“Help will be given to those who ask for it. That is one of the principles of Emei. If… if you’re unwilling to seek the sect’s aid, I could perhaps help talk to Qingcheng for you. I know Miss Song. We were childhood friends, so I could talk to her.”

Guys, I think that this is a key part of the update here. treave, do the Emei have some sort of oath of protection or anything similar to those who seek help from them? Based on them being an upright, orthodox sect, I somehow doubt that going there will mean that they just take our sword and cut our balls off. I mean, fuck, we went there to ask for their help, and based on their reputation, it is extremely doubtful that they'd turn around and renege on their deal like that.

Really bros, I believe that if you want to save both Yao and Cao'er, C is your best bet. We are unorthodox types, so we must use their honour against them: I am hoping that we can get them to agree to a deal that would allow us to give them the Yuchang Sword once Yao and Cao'er are free, which we will then renege shortly after. It will piss them off far worse than they are right now, but I say that if you're in for a penny, you might as well be in for a pound.
 

treave

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Guys, I think that this is a key part of the update here. treave, do the Emei have some sort of oath of protection or anything similar to those who seek help from them?

Some formal oath of protection, no, but from Yifang's extremist naivety you can probably figure out that their teachings require them to be really upright. Sure, there's bound to be some lax principles and leeway here and there, but if you beg for their aid, offering what they want in return, they won't be able to betray you without losing the trust and respect of their entire sect, which would also lead to their reputation plummeting horribly in the entire community.

Ruining their name over the sword? No, they're clearly not that desperate to get it back. If they wanted it back by any means necessary the Abbess would have come herself to kick your ass. It's a sect treasure, yes. The tattered skull cap of their founder is also a sect treasure. So are her ashes. And the broom someone claimed that Buddha came down and blessed.
 

Baltika9

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Honorable doesn't mean naive, though. What if they ask for payment upfront? We know we can rely on their word, but they don't know if they can rely on ours.
 

treave

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Or you could just give them the sword and then steal it back before the year is up and you have to report back to Zhang. You didn't give it to them, you were just making a tactical lending. :troll:

One thing to note about his challenge: if you lose the first time, it doesn't really mean it's automatically over. You have a year, so the crux of the challenge is that you have to prove you are the strongest by the end of that year. That is the only thing that will matter to Zhang, so you should keep that in mind when planning further excursions.
 

Baltika9

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Really, all we need to do in A and B is spring them from prison, after that Jing, Yao and Cao'er (I don't think she'd let anyone fuck with her onee-chan after such a daring rescue) can back-to-back a fighting escape.

I won't consider this a wuxia LP before that happens.
:rpgcodex:
 

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