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Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Like when they stand together with us at the conference?
There might not be much time for us to talk to her once the sects start going for each others' throats.

And I guess once anyone backs us up something like that will happen.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Gving away 3 swords would be an extremely effective performance, but I think giving away 2 is also - because the Yuchang was always ours, and we can say, with Emei making us our representative, there is a real official and righteous air to our lending the sword. With every intention of returning it when we need to. Importantly, what we are doing is relinquishing the two swords we gained from the Sword Demon. We only keep the sword we had before. We show we're not out to rob other people of their swords, we really did want to stop the Sword Demon, and that our motives are not s simple as SWORDS+1.

I disagree; how is the Yuchang Sword, which belongs to Emei anyways, more legitimately ours than the Chixiao Sword, which belongs to nobody, is? Emei might be cool with having Xu Jing as a representative, but we're still lending their sword. I believe that this Sword Conference can be resolved peacefully, or at least, as peacefully as possible. Let's look at the players, as they are now:

Tai'e Sword
Su Cheng's disciple will be holding this sword. This blade is powered by its wielder's courage - Su Cheng has none, so this won't be his voice. I believe that we can actually reason with the disciple if we really work hard to get the orthodox sects on our side.

Qixing Longyuan Sword
Wudang's sect treasure. Soon to be in the possession of our allies, thanks to us.

Chixiao Sword
Ours, to do with as we please.

Zhanlu Sword
Either the Sword Saint or Murong Yandi will have this one. Either way, a friend.

Chengying Sword
Zhang Minyue has this, and she is another wild card. She hates Xu Jing, and has every reason to due to our fued with her family. However:

You clearly demonstrate you're not going to be another Sword Demon after you killed him and walked out of the manor with two swords. You also show a reciprocal relationship with your allies, and a confidence that you can wreck the shit of your opponents without a Great Sword, to the extent that you'll give not one, but three, away to other people who you think need one more than you do.

I believe a display of honor and some selflessness here will aid us greatly in perhaps getting Zhang Minyue to hear us out. We may have killed her brother, but we also show great selflessness in giving away the swords to those that needed it more than we did. With a good word from the Sword Saint/Murong Yandi, we may yet turn an honorable sort like Minyue to our side. We just have to do the right thing.

Chunjun Sword
Nie Wuxing. Obviously we're bestest friends!

Yuchang Sword
Ours, to do with as we please. I still think that Emei is preferable here, because it officially shows good faith in returning Emei's lost blade and is the best move, diplomatically.

Gan Jiang and Mo Ye
Another wildcard, coerced into supporting the Zhang Clan. I don't know how we can resolve the issue of their kidnapped children, but perhaps Minyue can exert some clout on her family.

So, of this list, we have four Swords that are favourable to us (Chixiao, Yuchang, Qixing Longyuan, Zhanlu), one that is firmly on the enemy side (Chunjun, Gan Jiang and Mo Ye), and four that, to varying degrees, can be open to cooperation (Chengying, Tai'e). I understand why on the surface, the holder of the Tai'e Sword might be considered an enemy, but provided that Su Cheng's disciple hold's the sword, I firmly believe we can get all the orthodox sects besides Huashan on our side if we put our mind towards making strong alliances here. Likewise, given that Minyue seems to be different from the rest of her family, a show of good faith like this will ensure that she re-evaluates her opinion of us.

CB
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I disagree; how is the Yuchang Sword, which belongs to Emei anyways, more legitimately ours than the Chixiao Sword, which belongs to nobody, is?
Well, the Yuchang Sword was given to us by Rong Muben, and we were allowed to wield it by the Emei, its owners.

The Chixiao Sword we got from the corpse of the man we've killed.

I can see how it is more legitimately ours. If killing the previous owner was everything that was required to make the sword someone else's property, then by the same logic the zhang clan has more rights to Chengying sword than Xiahou Yu does.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Well, the Yuchang Sword was given to us by Rong Muben, and we were allowed to wield it by the Emei, its owners.

The Chixiao Sword we got from the corpse of the man we've killed.

I can see how it is more legitimately ours. If killing the previous owner was everything that was required to make the sword someone else's property, then by the same logic the zhang clan has more rights to Chengying sword than Xiahou Yu does.

Well, not that it matters all that much, since I'm in favour of giving away ALL THE SWORDS!!!, but even though Emei might be cool with letting us speak in their stead at the Conference, they would be far more appreciative of us handing their legendary sword back with no strings attached. That, combined with letting Song Lingshu wield the Chixiao Sword, would do absolute wonders for our rep in the orthodox world.

Sure, Nie Wuxing would still hate us, but the rest of the orthodox representatives would be thrilled. Moreover, this could do a lot to change hearts and minds at Taishan, where we have long been hated. Su Cheng is in cahoots with Nie Wuxing and the Zhang Clan, but his disciple, who holds the Tai'e Sword anyways, might re-evaluate his opinion of us if we go through with a selfless gesture like that. Even Zhang Minyue, given her honorable nature, might reconsider her opinion on us as well:

The Sword Demon had approached, and you had met him in battle. You recall mirroring his techniques, his ability, his strength. Turning his own weapons upon him. You had been drawn into the frenetic fight, revelling in the excitement and the bloodshed. Losing yourself in battle, giving all you had over to it. That was the only way to win. To crush your opponent in a direct confrontation. Wasn’t that your style?

Our attempt at heroism didn't quite work out, given we took a -50 hit to our orthodoxy rating. This was a move that could have been seen by her as greedy, while returning every sword we've got would really make her (and everyone else) reconsider their stance on us. We may not have an "official" voice in the Conference, but this action will speak far louder than any words. Our allies will speak with our voice.
 

Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Ah, to hell with it.

C>B, B>C, (anything that gets rid of the swords.)

Maybe we do not need some fancy sword after all and I will admit I kind of want to see what will happen if we purposefully sideline ourselves like that. At least the trolling will be glorious.
 
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Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Esquilax said:
Well, not that it matters all that much, since I'm in favour of giving away ALL THE SWORDS!!!, but even though Emei might be cool with letting us speak in their stead at the Conference, they would be far more appreciative of us handing their legendary sword back with no strings attached. That, combined with letting Song Lingshu wield the Chixiao Sword, would do absolute wonders for our rep in the orthodox world.
I don't see any strings attached to the 1A choice. They offer us to keep the sword, and we make use of that offer.

Basically, I do the same thing as you do, only I want to retain the right to affect the outcome of the conference directly. I prefer having my own voice instead of proxies. I know this is not the right example, but zhang manlou gave the sword to Minyue to speak on his behalf, and we are hoping to turn it against him. The proxies are not always the most reliable means of making yourself heard.

I am not sure why the matter of us giving away 1 sword that by all rights is ours to wield - and no one can challenge that right - would make such a critical difference that Taishan would reevaluate their opinion of us. How is it going to negate the fact that we attacked them during the Fire Cult challenge? It isn't just Su Cheng that opposes us - our actions have made it harder for them to see us as an upright figure.

I, too, do not want to be seen as greedy, which is why I want to give away the swords we've picked in the fight with the Sword Demon. But I'd like to keep the sword that always was by our side, especially since we have a justification for it.
 

Elfberserker

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
1,540
Flopping to AB

I agree with Nevill with this one,
Emei gave us permission to speak for their
behalf and I am rather wary of not having voice in Sword conference.

As long as we act like we don't shame Emei with our words or actions, we can show that we have turned new leaf and Emei was right about us....Then again giving these amazing swords does the same thing, but I am rather attached to our legendary blade.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Gving away 3 swords would be an extremely effective performance, but I think giving away 2 is also - because the Yuchang was always ours, and we can say, with Emei making us our representative, there is a real official and righteous air to our lending the sword. With every intention of returning it when we need to. Importantly, what we are doing is relinquishing the two swords we gained from the Sword Demon. We only keep the sword we had before. We show we're not out to rob other people of their swords, we really did want to stop the Sword Demon, and that our motives are not s simple as SWORDS+1.

I disagree; how is the Yuchang Sword, which belongs to Emei anyways, more legitimately ours than the Chixiao Sword, which belongs to nobody, is? Emei might be cool with having Xu Jing as a representative, but we're still lending their sword. I believe that this Sword Conference can be resolved peacefully, or at least, as peacefully as possible. Let's look at the players, as they are now:

That is not at all the point. I'm not talking about the ownership of the sword for perpetuity. I am talking about how we can use the swords for a performative, diplomatic gesture. If we give away the Demon's swords and then keep the Yuchang as Emei's representative and say we are borrowing it, nobody will say, 'greedy Xu Jing, making excuses to keep a sword'. THey will rather focus on our unexpected move in giving away the swords, and conclude that we must not at least be SWORDS+1!!!!! at this conference.

This is the best of all worlds. We keep one sword for the conference, and possibly a bit longer. We don't attract aggresion or ire. We confound those who would think the worst of us. We do not feed the Demon.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
I don't see any strings attached to the 1A choice. They offer us to keep the sword, and we make use of that offer.

Ah, I didn't mean to imply that there were any strings in 1A. I had just meant it as a figure of speech to mean that if we give the Yuchang Sword back without requiring anything in return, it would be perceived as a kinder and more diplomatic gesture than keeping it, even if they are obviously fine with us holding on to it for now.

Basically, I do the same thing as you do, only I want to retain the right to affect the outcome of the conference directly. I prefer having my own voice instead of proxies. I know this is not the right example, but zhang manlou gave the sword to Minyue to speak on his behalf, and we are hoping to turn it against him. The proxies are not always the most reliable means of making yourself heard.

And here is where we disagree. I believe that we can affect the outcome even more strongly indirectly than we can directly. Win hearts and minds, and you won't even need the sword. An official voice is nice to have, but many of these people are our allies, with the same interests as us. Furthermore, we can win over people like Zhang Minyue and Su Cheng's disciple with a display of selflessness. We may not have a formal voice here, but I believe that our presence will be felt even more strongly this way.

I am not sure why the matter of us giving away 1 sword that is by all rights is ours to wield - and no one can challenge that right - would make such a critical difference that Taishan would reevaluate their opinion of us. How is it going to negate the fact that we attacked them furing the Fire Cult challenge? It isn't just Su Cheng that opposes us - our actions have made it harder for them to see us as an upright figure.

I disagree. Taishan's first reaction upon seeing us:

“L-Let’s retreat for now, Qi,” says Su Cheng, getting to his feet quickly. “It’s too risky to fight here. Emei’s sword and Wudang’s technique in the hands of Zhang Jue’s disciple… something is strange about this.”

*gasp* The villain has Wudang's technique and Emei's legendary sword! This monster must be stopped! Well, if we give away our swords, then we show that we're not the monster that they thought we were. Since Su Cheng's disciple is the sect representative, he is likely going to be far more amenable to reason than his coward of a Master will be. Returning not one, but two sect treasures to their respective orthodox sects is a big move towards this.

As for rights to the sword, there's no doubt that Emei is cool with us having it. But, even though we have a claim, Emei's claim is still stronger than ours. We have a right to wield it, but they have even more of a right to it than we do. I think that's fairly clear. So if we return it to the person who has a stronger claim over it, it'll go over way better than keeping it. Again, I'm not implying that keeping it would be worse for our reputation, rather that giving it back to Emei would be much better.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
That is not at all the point. I'm not talking about the ownership of the sword for perpetuity. I am talking about how we can use the swords for a performative, diplomatic gesture. If we give away the Demon's swords and then keep the Yuchang as Emei's representative and say we are borrowing it, nobody will say, 'greedy Xu Jing, making excuses to keep a sword'. THey will rather focus on our unexpected move in giving away the swords, and conclude that we must not at least be SWORDS+1!!!!! at this conference.

If it's diplomatic gestures you want, there is nothing that can top giving away all the Swords.

This is the best of all worlds. We keep one sword for the conference, and possibly a bit longer. We don't attract aggresion or ire. We confound those who would think the worst of us. We do not feed the Demon.

I don't buy that, everything has pros and cons. We have a voice in the Conference if we keep the Yuchang Sword, but we really show that we're out there to make amends with and ally ourselves with the orthodox world by providing both sect treasures. Giving all three swords away would confound people far more than keeping one would. If you want to keep the sword, then that's understandable, but it isn't the "best of all worlds". Nothing can be.

The Demon doesn't reside in the Chixiao Sword. It resides in our heart, as punishment for the sin of spamming Wuxiang Qiankun Skill.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
I thought that the demon was punishment about all those reloads.

The sin of Wuxiang Qiankun and the sin of reloads are borne of the greatest sin, the most vile sin; the sin of :popamole:

May Lord Zhang forgive us for what we have done. We must perform penance by giving away our Swords, the very tools from which popamole may spring forth.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Ah, I didn't mean to imply that there were any strings in 1A. I had just meant it as a figure of speech to mean that if we give the Yuchang Sword back without requiring anything in return, it would be perceived as a kinder and more diplomatic gesture than keeping it, even if they are obviously fine with us holding on to it for now.
Again, I'm not implying that keeping it would be worse for our reputation, rather that giving it back to Emei would be much better.
Sure, I won't argue with you about that. Still, this comes down to a personal preference. You think that making a kinder and a more diplomatic gesture is worth giving up our own ticket to the conference. I don't think we are in that much of a need to make amends with the BRO sects in the first place.

Besides, Shun was going to let us have fun at the conference by not announcing himself as the Emprah. And how do we have fun if we are not invited to play?

Meh, I still want to participate.

Baltika9 xB
Rex Feral AB>CB
Kz3r0 AC
Absinthe BB>CB>AB
Tigranes AB
XenomorphII AB
TOME AB
Kashmir Slippers CA
Akkudakku xB
asxetos AB
Elfberserker AB
GreyViper AB
Nevill AB
Grimgravy BA>AB
Azira BA
Esquilax CB
Fangshi CB>BC
Jester CA
ChumBucket BB
Tribute BB>CB
Lambchop19 AA>AB
Ganymede CB
The Brazilian Slaughter AB
Smashing Axe AA

A - 12
B - 5
C - 5

A - 6
B - 17
C - 1
 
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Rex Feral

Prophet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
1,300
Well...the first sword that the sword demon had was the Chixiao sword. And that sword had a dubios past of coming out of a white snake which might have been a demon.

So maybe the sword demon got possesed through that sword.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
You sure?

Maybe it was the first legendary sword that he had?

Because judging by his juggling abilities, he had many swords in his life.

The snake was an incarnation of the Emperor of that time, according to the legend. Not a demon.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
That is not at all the point. I'm not talking about the ownership of the sword for perpetuity. I am talking about how we can use the swords for a performative, diplomatic gesture. If we give away the Demon's swords and then keep the Yuchang as Emei's representative and say we are borrowing it, nobody will say, 'greedy Xu Jing, making excuses to keep a sword'. THey will rather focus on our unexpected move in giving away the swords, and conclude that we must not at least be SWORDS+1!!!!! at this conference.

If it's diplomatic gestures you want, there is nothing that can top giving away all the Swords.

This is the best of all worlds. We keep one sword for the conference, and possibly a bit longer. We don't attract aggresion or ire. We confound those who would think the worst of us. We do not feed the Demon.

I don't buy that, everything has pros and cons. We have a voice in the Conference if we keep the Yuchang Sword, but we really show that we're out there to make amends with and ally ourselves with the orthodox world by providing both sect treasures. Giving all three swords away would confound people far more than keeping one would. If you want to keep the sword, then that's understandable, but it isn't the "best of all worlds". Nothing can be.

The Demon doesn't reside in the Chixiao Sword. It resides in our heart, as punishment for the sin of spamming Wuxiang Qiankun Skill.

Of course giving away all swords is more conciliatory than giving away only two swords. Most of what you say is besides the point, including overwrought opposition to 'best of all worlds' as a phrase. I would prefer to balance our conciliatory gesture (which remains significantly mpressive) with keeping a voice in the conference for a sword which, combined with Emei representativeship, could never be mistaken as us stealing it or robbing it.

As for demon, it was only a minor point that being greedy for swords may not be the best attitude for us to take right now. I'm OK with CB, I think AB is markedly better.
 

treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
Actually, treave, if Shunbro gets his hands on the Xuanyuan sword, can he use the humility Nevill's plan will portray to spin us as a worthy enough champion to wield the Xuanyan on his behalf?

If he gets his hands on the sword he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it.
 

ChumBucket

Augur
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
349
If he gets his hands on the sword he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it.

The Paranoid RPG Gamer in me reads that as: "Shun is not really our bro and been using us the whole time. He will use the sword to cleave the head from our body if we even glance at it wrong."

Vote is BB
 

Tribute

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
919
Gonna vote BB>CB for now, although I am willing to swap the order. I like Lingshu and Yifang, and we also need to improve our Bro Sect reps.

Only downside is are we even entitled to attend the conference if we do that?
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
AA>AB

There's no reason to give them Emei the sword in hopes of brownie points as they already like us enough to let us be their representative. And a few more nuns is unlikely to make a huge difference in our favor and just because they are there won't mean they'll side with us. We are unorthodox (not just politically, but in almost every respect - see 90% of our decisions for more on this) and we may decide on a course they disagree with. If this LP has taught me anything, it's that rep is for losers. We're the anti-hero, the batman of pugilists. Our name is dreaded and despised, but we are known and we are taken seriously. Screw everyone who doesn't like us. Brown wedding, bitches.

Of course, enhancing Song's fighting skill might be good. Swords -1. Bah. Let's just not give it to Shun. I'd rather not have him there to get his ass kicked. That's my gut on this, but maybe having him there would be good, provided he could bring an ass load of bodyguards and half an army waiting outside? Up to you guys.
 

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