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[LP CYOA] 傳

Discussion in 'Choose Your Own Adventure Land' started by treave, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. Azira Arcane Patron

    Azira
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    It would differentiate Jing from the Maniac, that's true.
     
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  2. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    Naw, I was thinking of whether or not that would be a good toll on our part:
    "Master Zhang, I accomplished your task and defeated all of my "peers" in single combat... without killing or maiming a single one of them. Something you are too much of a wuss to do. U mad, bro?" Overloading the Wudang Student's qi system with our own Warpstuff is pretty tempting, though.

    On a more serious note, would he even care if we did that, or would he only care about us accomplishing his task? We definitely need to get some info on him at our earliest convenience, this secrecy frustrates me heavily.
     
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  3. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    You are not mistaken.

    That's right. She can pay the price by trading her life for Yao's. But she might not know the circumstances behind this case.
    This is why I insist on talking to her.

    I don't think Zhang cares one bit about that, or anything else for this matter. It would amuse him. It would also amuse him if you did your challenge non-violently.

    What he cares for is to make you the ultimate weapon of destruction, a warrior without peers, a living monument to his teachings. The details do not concern him.
     
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  4. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    What are his teachings, though? We haven't received a single bit of philosophical instruction:
    Just month after grueling month of physical training. I doubt Zhang is that focused on the physical that he forgets the philosophical and intellectual, he is a Fellow of the Manor, has an extensive library on his island and is an extremely intelligent man, a genius almost (something even tells me he may have had the same problem as us, or something close to it, his knowledge of the underlying principles and subject certainly suggest it). And yet, if he wants us to be the monument of his teachings, what are they?
    "Chaos is freedom?" or "Harmony is for pussies?"
    Edit: is he Chaos made manifest?
     
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  5. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    Isn't he just a social darwinist/survivalist that places the utmost importance on personal power, and not on some moral conduct or whatever philosophical mumbo-jumbo?

    He does appear to me that way. He acts as if the weak have no place in his world unless they entertain him. If there is a higher idea behind his teachings, it haven't manifested itself yet.

    Why do you think there is more to him than meets the eye, anyway? Apart from that you really want this to be the case.
     
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  6. Jester Arbiter

    Jester
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    I hope that we can pull this off. Reaction on this approach would be as funny as tiger befriending.

    It sound like Jade Empire closed fist road to me, hope i am wrong. Guess he posses interesting sense of humor?
     
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  7. Grimgravy Cipher Patron

    Grimgravy
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    I'd go for B1 if I didn't have a feeling our target will be awake, or be awoken as we make our way to her, for one reason or another. Things have gone too smoothly thus far and our luck can't hold out. I doubt we'll have time to kill her and save Cao'er. It wouldn't take much delay for the dawn to screw us.
     
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  8. TOME Cuckmaster General

    TOME
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    I would vote B1 if we had more time till dawn. We have a debt to Yao but I think Cao'er's safety comes first. B3. Yao can do as he pleases after that.
     
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  9. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    I am appalled by the number of people that are willing to murder innocents just because the guy we really respect says so. Guess we aren't sliding off Shun's cock anytime soon.

    Wouldn't it be funny if Cao'er, being the kind and compassionate girl that she is, asked you to stop this bloody feud and save them both? In fact, what if she is a guest, rather then the prisoner, here, trying to persuade Lingshu to spare her master's life?
     
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  10. Esquilax Arcane

    Esquilax
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    Nevill is right that saving Cao'er will mean that Yao has nothing holding him back if he decides to kill Lingshu. I think she's going to die by his hand if we don't kill her anyways.

    Okay dude, what exactly do you expect here? We are on a mission to humiliate the orthodox sects by any means necessary as the Southern Maniac's apprentice, now we have to worry about everybody's feelings along the way? Not saying you are wrong in this assessment, but don't expect to succeed in Zhang's mission if you don't like stepping on a few toes. We have to go through eight people by the end of this, and a few of them are probably going to die.

    You mean Shun, our dearest and closest friend, who protected us after we attacked the woman-in-black? The guy who stood by for us even though our actions led to him getting hurt? That guy? If there is anyone we ought to be loyal to, it's Shun. Every indication that we've been given tells us that Shun is an awesome guy, why would we go against him? Freedom may have changed Jing's ideas a bit, but I don't understand this reaction against Shun, when he's been the most trustworthy person that we've ever known.

    Absolutely. I think we're making the mistake of confusing the idea of honor in this setting with doing the right thing (i.e. the moral thing), when honor actually means doing the proper thing (i.e. keeping your word, paying your debts). A lot of the time honor means being a good guy, but a lot of the time it also means doing what's appropriate, even if it happens to be distasteful. Yao may have acted recklessly and put Cao'er in needless danger, but the man was well within his rights to claim the debt on Song Jiangke, who reneged on the deal twice. The Qingcheng sect head wanted to have his cake and eat it too. Killing Song Lingshu isn't the right thing, but it's certainly the proper thing according to the established honor code here.

    As for why I'd challenge her out in the open, slaying Song Lingshu in that matter would mean that we don't become sworn enemies of the Qingcheng since we took her out fair and square. Assassinating her, then writing our signature with her entrails, as awesome as it is, pretty much ensures that the sect will hunt us for the rest of our lives. Y'know... once they decide on a new leader after both the father and the daughter were wiped out. :lol:

    However, an open challenge poses problems in and of itself. A lot of people would see our fighting style in action before the tournament, so if we decide to compete incognito as a masked martial artist, someone will figure out who we really are based on our fighting style. Another alternative might be to kill Song Lingshu anonymously. Sure, we wouldn't get Zhang's credit for it, but it'd fulfill Yao's debt just fine.

    I am on the fence here, I could flop to B1 soon.

    Fuck it, flopped to B1. Using our newfound rep, I say we go to the competition openly, as the Southern Maniac's apprentice. We'll remind our competitors that even if they win, we might pay them a visit too like we did to Qingcheng.
     
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  11. treave Arcane Patron

    treave
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    Hm, not that clear cut, no. You're not supposed to kill or maim in a challenge, as far as the orthodox sects are concerned. Zhang doesn't give a shit if you turn the whole world into your enemy, but do not expect to make friends amongst the orthodox sects if you injure or kill any of them without good reason (i.e in a situation where they were clearly in the wrong, and you can prove that you had just cause to do so. Challenging them to prove your superiority is not a good reason.).

    Something regarding the challenge; Zhang's wording isn't as straightforward as it initially seems. But we'll get to Jing's thoughts on the matter when we begin the challenges proper.

    Now, let's return to the Qingcheng case.

    What happened in Songfeng was a different situation where Cao'er had just saved Rong Sr's life and you demanded the death price, allowing for a duel in lieu of Rong Jr. kneeling down and handing his own head over. Master Rong, the person you had saved, agreed to accept the result no matter what happens, as long as it is conducted honourably. That is why Songfeng hasn't put out a bounty on your head.

    With Qingcheng, you will have to fulfil these criteria for such a scenario to play out again in exactly the same way:
    a) Since Song Lingshu is the new head of the sect, she must agree to the challenge herself.
    b) Song Lingshu and Qingcheng must be aware that you are fighting to claim Yao's death price.
    c) Song Lingshu must make it clear that no matter what happens to her, no vengeance should be taken.
    d) The newest head of Qingcheng and the sect members must be willing to listen to those directions should you succeed in killing her.
     
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  12. Kipeci Arcane

    Kipeci
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    How will they go about picking a new leader?
     
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  13. treave Arcane Patron

    treave
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    The most senior surviving disciple will take over in the absence of any other contingencies set by the previous head. Song Lingshu only got the job because she was designated as heir, and she is also considered to be rather talented for her age. But this is rare; in the other seven of the Eight Sects, the position is not hereditary - the previous head usually picks the disciple he or she think best suited to be the next leader. They are not small family schools. It wasn't hereditary here either before Song Jiangke named his daughter as successor.

    But do not read this brief post and immediately jump to the conclusion that you know all about internal politics in Qingcheng already and attempt to assume things like, "Oh they won't be mad if we kill her!". :lol:

    They might be. They might not be. At this point you don't have the information to know for sure.
     
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  14. Kipeci Arcane

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    How much time is left until dawn, anyway? You said that we could probably do the deed in about ten minutes, so how much time would that leave us with?
     
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  15. treave Arcane Patron

    treave
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    Assuming everything goes off without a hitch? The main living quarters aren't hard to find. Once you get Cao'er you should have close to an hour left. Given your high strength you can just carry her on your back, climb a handy building and leap over the wall with time to spare. That's the plan, at least.

    I'd like to note one thing: one of the arguments for the unorthodox path back then was because people wanted the freedom to break from restrictive honour codes without penalty. :lol:
     
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  16. Nevill Arcane

    Nevill
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    I don't give a rat's ass about Zhang's mission if it oversteps the amount of ruthlessness I deem acceptable for Jing's character, and this is certainly the case. There is a line after which it is better to abandon Zhang, rather than continue with his apprenticeship. If he orders us to murder our liege, for example, we would certainly refuse the request. Murdering innocent people is stepping dangerously close to that line.

    Yeah, that guy. I have nothing against him, really. But I do think that Jing does not properly excersice his ability to make his own judjement, instead relying on concepts of loyalty and whatnot to follow orders. Orders from Shun, orders from Yao, orders from Zhang. Some of them are worth following, some are not, and none of them excuse poor moral judgement on Jing's part.

    In the current situation, following Yao's instructions to the letter is clearly not the optimal way to solve the problem, neither it is an appropriate way of showing gratitude, yet it doesn't bother Jing that much. He can always say he honored the letter of his vow, if not the spirit.

    I remember something along the lines "no murder, rape and pillage allowed". I know I wanted for Jing to be an idealist with a practical approach to combat, not the Practical Incarnation himself.
     
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  17. Esquilax Arcane

    Esquilax
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    Song Lingshu is innocent and it's not her fault that this happened. No disputing that. It isn't fair that she has to die for her father's indiscretions. The man is dead and Yao has taken his toll upon the man that wronged him. He's clearly blinded by his pride in this case. I'm not disputing that either.

    An idealist with a practical approach to combat. So, you mean, a man who values keeping his word and being loyal to those close to him above all else, which is what we'd be doing now if we kill Song Lingshu? Perhaps these aren't the ideals you want the character to have, but there's certainly something idealistic - and overall, very interesting - about carrying out Yao's orders in full and doing whatever needs to be done to ensure that we succeed.

    If you want him to be more of an individual, cool. But if he isn't relying on concepts like loyalty, duty, etc. then he's not exactly an idealist either. If he's an idealist, well, what are the ideals that you want him to have? What does he value? As strange as it is to say, the Jing that will kill Song Lingshu is more of an idealist than the Jing that doesn't. A version of Jing who makes his own judgment and is individualistic is a man who lives for himself, and that kind of man by definition cannot be an idealist.

    I'm not saying that it's better or worse, but it's not idealistic. I don't quite understand the vision of the character that you had from the beginning, but it sounded a bit contradictory.
     
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  18. treave Arcane Patron

    treave
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    Closing the votes. B3 should have won this after the flops.
     
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  19. treave Arcane Patron

    treave
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    Think Chaotic Good, perhaps? An individualist with his personal moral code of what's right and wrong that may not fully match with society, but nevertheless aims to do selfless 'good' regardless.

    That's the impression I got from most unorthodox voters.
     
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  20. Kipeci Arcane

    Kipeci
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    Are we really saying that it would have corrupted Jong to have gone with B1? He's reflexively murdered hundreds, he's not some delicate snowflake that will give in to the void after dirtying his hands a bit. I'm definitely butthurt.
     
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  21. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    This is an innocent person we're talking about here, though. If we kill her, what is stopping us from killing more innocents, giving into our chaos and one day waking up covered in gore and intestines?

    Where are you getting the "he killed hundreds!" statistic? There's an unspecified number with tye Secret Police, the bandits and Junior. Not the sky-high kill count you're implying.
     
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  22. Azira Arcane Patron

    Azira
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    Butthurt is a state of mind. It's one prevalent in treave's CYOAs. Welcome aboard. :salute:
     
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  23. Jester Arbiter

    Jester
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    You have right we are FAR behind schedule.
    :troll:
     
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  24. Kipeci Arcane

    Kipeci
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    While we did practice our killing on bound prisoners, people could be imprisoned for a lot of awfully petty things back in the day, so we've probably already done that a few times. As to what would stop us from more, I guess it would depend on whether or not someone we have sworn debt or allegiance to needs us to kill such a person or if it otherwise aligns up with our interests, it's not as if we're stabbing a school of orphans for the lulz.

    Are you not prone to a bit of hyperbole yourself at times, especially when it's just a flippant remark from passing butthurt? He stabbed people until he could feel no hesitation whatsoever in doing it, not a single tug at his conscious restraining him, so I assumed it was a fair number, anyway.
     
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  25. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    Biting back my reflex of being a smartass, we go to the competition, fight and show our techniques and then tell them "Yeah, by the way, I'm stopping by your schools soon. Get ready, I guess." That doesn't sound smart to me.
    That's just the thing, though, I do not want to be anyone's pet Lithuanian hitman,. Simple as that really, and if it gets to the point where Shun orders us to kill innocents without any good cause except his pride, Jing has the precedence and inclination to say "No, what the fuck, dude?" That's the beautiful thing about unorthodoxy, "freedom of choice."
    I took you literally there. Point taken. :oops:
    Because if he would have been a "social darwinist/survivalist," he wouldn't give a crap if we killed the nuns, would probably instruct us to kill off the losers of our matches and try to bend us to his point of view. And yet, didn't. I'm just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt, "don't judge a book by it's cover" and all.
    Remember the "Oh no! He'll make us an insane killing machine, JUST LIKE HIM!" and how that didn't happen?
     
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