[LP CYOA] 傳

[Nevill]

Bottom line: being seen living and socializing with the daughter of the Wudu Sect leader will make interacting with the orthodox participants more difficult.

We live separately from her.
And this is the reason why I want to keep our merchant identity separate from the White Wolf at the tournament. A merchant socializing with the pretty girl who sold him the room is quite understandable.

 

[Baltika9]

I was under the impression that they were in the same inn, if not even across from one another. treave, just how closely will they be to one another?

And this is the reason why I want to keep our merchant identity separate from the White Wolf at the tournament. A merchant socializing with the pretty girl who sold him the room is quite understandable.

Going in as Geralt White Wolf won't allow us to interact with other people freely. Who's the creepy dude in the mask and why is he staring at me like that?

 

[treave]

The rooms are opposite each other.

 

[Nevill]

Ok. Still can't think up a reason why is would be so hard to sell a story of a girl trying to cut her living expenses, now that her father can't make it to the tournament. We didn't know who she was when we got here, and there were no other free rooms left in the city anyway. It's not like we could afford to choose.

I don't see anything suspicious.

 

[Esquilax]

You know, since the incident with Yao I have reevaluated my approach of "mission comes first, personal matters later". I thought that the probability of the old man getting himself in trouble right when Zhang kicked us off the island was negligible. Well, I was wrong.

If we don't help her, or at least hear her, now, some paths might become permanently closed to us. Currently she holds power over us, might be useful to us later due to her connections, is somewhat friendly towards us for the time bring, and is said to be connected to us by fate, which implies we will meet her later. She isn't someone we can just ignore.

Yes, and if we do help her, some paths will be permanently closed to us. The question is, which is the better path. I am of the opinion that attempting to make friends with orthodox sects while staying with a well-known unorthodox poisoner is a recipe for disaster: it's only a matter of time until these two worlds end up converging. Look how many times we were nearly spotted today! We simply cannot have that many people knowing our face while trying to weave together an intricate web of lies like that, it's only a matter of time until we're discovered.

If there is a chance we are not already late to the party, and might actually help her resolve her inner conflict and end up on her good side, I'll take it.

We are on her good side and resolving her inner conflict is not our problem. Our problem is accomplishing Zhang's challenge. You are losing sight of the bigger picture.

Ok, so then isn't it in your interest to tell her that you do not intend to win the competition? So that she didn't view you as a possible threat?
...
We are always knee-deep in shit we need to take care of. I voted to ignore Yao in favor of Shun's mission, and am I glad that my vote didn't win. We should not ignore people, we have too few friends and are about to make much more enemies.

The mission with Yao was a success, but there are tradeoffs there too. We've been ignoring Shun's mission for years - just because something bad hasn't happened to him yet, doesn't mean that there won't be negative consequences to ignoring Shun's mission.

You can only watch the Imperial Palace from afar in Chang’an. You wonder if Shun is there. You have heard troubling rumours when you reached the capital; apparently the army has been sent out to pacify the northwest border.

Doesn't this seem like something we should have known about as well using our lead from Yuhua Hall? We don't know the nature of the conflict, whether this was a plot by the people that the Woman-in-Black was with to draw the Prince out, why there are problems despite our successful diplomacy with the Ashina, etc. Yes, I'm glad things worked out with Yao, but there are other factors here too, and you are simplifying things too much.

Yes, sometimes the details are important, and making friends can go a long way to achieving the larger goal that we want to achieve. But there are times that, y'know... you might want to get on trying to accomplish that large goal at some fucking point. We are trying to make inroads into the orthodox world. We have been successful in making some contacts in the unorthodox world and we are already the apprentice of a Great Pugilist - this is not an area that we need further investment in. We need to find out what our enemies are doing.

Bottom line: being seen living and socializing with the daughter of the Wudu Sect leader will make interacting with the orthodox participants more difficult. This counteracts the whole purpose of going undercover.

Absolutely. You cannot reconcile 1A, where we introduce ourselves to a bunch of Shaolin disciples - meaning, more people in this city who know our face - with 2B, which involves living across a well-connected Wudu Cult member. ffs sake dude, how can you not see this blowing up in our face, Nevill?

We live separately from her.
And this is the reason why I want to keep our merchant identity separate from the White Wolf at the tournament.

We're going to be staying at the same inn that she's at. I suppose by "separately" you might mean "not sleeping in the same bed" though?

 

[Baltika9]

The rooms are opposite each other.

Oh god, if Yunzi really is the Shadow Wolf and she is here in the competition...
This will be hilarious.

 

[Nevill]

The question is, which is the better path. I am of the opinion that attempting to make friends with orthodox sects while staying with a well-known unorthodox poisoner is a recipe for disaster: it's only a matter of time until these two worlds end up converging.

I am of the opposite opinion, and I've already stated the reasons why I think so. The rest is up to how the votes go.

We are on her good side and resolving her inner conflict is not our problem. Our problem is accomplishing Zhang's challenge. You are losing sight of the bigger picture.

Visiting Yao to say 'hi' wasn't our problem, either. Until we investigated further and learned that it kind of was. This sidequest incorporated itself seamlessly in our mission from Zhang, as Emei are no longer our enemies, and their leader is our ally now. With some blackmailing potential, to boot.

The mission with Yao was a success, but there are tradeoffs there too. [...] Yes, I'm glad things worked out with Yao, but there are other factors here too, and you are simplifying things too much.

There always are tradeoffs. Some I view acceptable, some I do not. Losing a person I have sworn a lifedebt of gratitude to is among the latter. Why do you think I am simplifying things?

The problem is, not all of the tradeoffs are immediately apparent, not even after making a choice. You don't know what you lose out on if you reject her invitation. If you want to learn about that, you have to accept. I care enough about what can be lost here that I accept it. You don't. Ok, let's settle on this and move on.

You cannot reconcile 1A, where we introduce ourselves to a bunch of Shaolin disciples - meaning, more people in this city who know our face - with 2B, which involves living across a well-connected Wudu Cult member. ffs sake dude, how can you not see this blowing up in our face, @Nevill?

I dunno. How do you reconsile being a married man and living one house away from a brothel? The question itself is meaningless. FFS, this is the only free room in town!

I suppose by "separately" you might mean "not sleeping in the same bed" though?

Yes, that.

 

[Esquilax]

Ok. Still can't think up a reason why is would be so hard to sell a story of a girl trying to cut her living expenses, now that her father can't make it to the tournament. We didn't know who she was when we got here, and there were no other free rooms left in the city anyway. It's not like we could afford to choose.

I don't see anything suspicious.

How do you still not see anything suspicious? We have a well-known Wudu Cult member living right next to us, yet we're trying to present ourselves as a well-meaning orthodox type and make a few inroads with some of the sects here? You don't see any contradiction with that? At all? Anything where someone might be suspicious of the way that we're attempting to present ourselves? We simply can't keep this double-life separate for the duration of the tournament.

Yes, the cover story in A where we pretend to be a street urchin would require us to change the way that we act, for instance, we'd have to avoid the inns, but that's about it. treave, could we perhaps dress ourselves like a street urchin so that people we knew before have trouble recognizing us? There are thousands of inns here and they're all full, I doubt that many of the innkeepers will remember us - all the rooms are packed and they've probably had hundreds of people asking for a room just like we were. Really, any way you slice it, 2A is better cover.

If you're also concerned about her ratting us out; she won't. If she does know that we're Zhang Jue's apprentice, then she'll know that we are precisely the last person she should be fucking with now that her father and uncle are not going to be here for the tournament. If she rats us out, we'll know, and if we're anything like Zhang from our year and a half long absence, she knows that she is in very, very deep shit if she blabs.

 

[Nevill]

But how exactly we do that is extremely important. We don't want to be put into an awkward position: we're going to be presenting ourselves as a charming, likable unorthodox type to these Shaolin monks. They'll think that we're misguided for not being part of a sect, but they'll think that we've got our heart in the right place.

We have a well-known Wudu Cult member living right next to us, yet we're trying to present ourselves as a well-meaning orthodox type and make a few inroads with some of the sects here?

Uh... choose one?

We have a well-known Wudu Cult member living right next to us, yet we're trying to present ourselves as a well-meaning orthodox type and make a few inroads with some of the sects here? You don't see any contradiction with that? At all?

No.

 

[treave]

You can swap clothes with a random beggar that fits your size.

...You guys really are going to great lengths for a tournament your master called a sideshow.

 

[Baltika9]

Nothing wrong with exploiting opportunities, we're just trying to do it the right way. Well, some of us are.
We originally came here to learn as much as posdible about our competition without them finding out a whole lot about us. Trying to have the cake and eat it too, AB, compromises that.

 

[Nevill]

Plans could and should be changed in accordance with the new information.

Thing is, I am dead set on 2B. If 1A runs contrary to that, I can flop to BB. But I don't see the need.

 

[Esquilax]

Typo, I had meant "unorthodox" in both cases. In any case, I think you get the gist of my point:

• We have many people here who know what we look like
• In order to succeed in figuring out the physical and psychological weaknesses of our enemies, we must maintain anonymity for as long as possible while their guard is down.
• Staying with Chi Qiling compromises our ability to smoothly infiltrate the orthodox world due to her status in the Wudu Cult.
• Trying to maintain links with her while at the same time getting in deep with the orthodox world is trying to do too much at once and risks being caught.
• Being linked to her destroys our ability to infiltrate the orthodox world and figure out our enemies because they now where they once would have given us the benefit of the doubt, they now are suspicious of us because now we're connected to the Wudu cult.

I am of the opposite opinion, and I've already stated the reasons why I think so. The rest is up to how the votes go.

I think you have a good idea of how the votes will go.

Visiting Yao to say 'hi' wasn't our problem, either. Until we investigated further and learned that it kind of was. This sidequest incorporated itself seamlessly in our mission from Zhang, as Emei are no longer our enemies, and their leader is our potential ally now. With a blackmailing potential, to boot.
...
There always are tradeoffs. Some I view acceptable, some I do not. Losing a person I have sworn a lifedebt of gratitudeto is among the latter. Why do you think I am simplifying things?
...
The problem is, not all of the tradeoffs are immediately apparent, not even after making a choice. You don't know what you lose out on if you reject her invitation. If you want to learn about that, you have to accept. I care enough about what can be lost here that I accept it. You don't. Ok, let's settle on this and move on.

My point is that you lose out if you accept the invitation too, because now you have to worry about maintaining a distance between your orthodox contacts you've just met and the secret unorthodox world that you're part of. We came here with some anonymity because we knew that Zhang Jue's reputation would have caused our marks to greet us with hatred, fear and suspicion. Now we're going to be staying with someone who is part of a notorious unorthodox school that goes against why we came here anonymously in the first place. Why? So that we can be better friends with her?

You must be consistent with your choices. I voted for the Tigranes plan, but since we are here anonymously, we have to act in a way that enforces that anonymity. This isn't a CRPG where you can just go off on a side quest for fun.

I dunno. How do you reconsile being a married man and living one house away from the brothel? The question itself is meaningless. FFS, this is the only free room in town!

The only free room in town that just happened to have the niece of the Western Snake sleeping across from us. I am not sure I understand your analogy.

...You guys really are going to great lengths for a tournament your master called a sideshow.

A sideshow that might lay the foundation for our victory when we start challenging people for real. It's an important part of the plan.

 

[Nevill]

The only free room in town that just happened to have the niece of the Western Snake sleeping across from us. I am not sure I understand your analogy.

You don't choose your neighbours when you rent a room.
The guy in the next room can be a mugger, and the guy on the floor above can be a smuggler. It doesn't reflect on who you are.
I honestly can't see how you can view it as a valid argument.

As for your points.

• We have many people here who know what we look like
  
  In order to succeed in figuring out the physical and psychological weaknesses of our enemies, we must maintain anonymity for as long as possible while their guard is down.

  Agreed.

• Staying with Chi Qiling compromises our ability to smoothly infiltrate the orthodox world due to her status in the Wudu Cult.

  Disagreed.

• Trying to maintain links with her while at the same time getting in deep with the orthodox world is trying to do too much at once and risks being caught.
  
  Being linked to her destroys our ability to infiltrate the orthodox world and figure out our enemies because they now where they once would have given us the benefit of the doubt, they now are suspicious of us because now we're connected to the Wudu cult.

  Depends on what she needs of us, really. We'll hear her and weigh the risks then.
  Don't really see why these points are separate, though.

 

[treave]

A sideshow that might lay the foundation for our victory when we start challenging people for real. It's an important part of the plan.

You mean the plan that involves hiding your own techniques while exposing others?

I suppose in that context it is important.

 

[Baltika9]

Depends on what she needs of us, really. We'll hear her and weigh the risks then.

I don't mean this in a dickish way, but how naive can you be? Dude, if we take her up on her offer, it will mean we're available for any and all schemes she wants to concoct. We'll be giving her carte blanche to pull the same trick she did in the Manor, and like then she won't even deliver on her suggestions because white knights never get any with her type.
However, declining her outright under those circumstances will piss her off. Bottom line, bro, she's not doing this without an ulterior motive.

 

[Nevill]

We'll be giving her carte blanche to pull the same trick she did in the Manor, and like then she won't even deliver on her suggestions because white knights never get any with her type.

Ahem. What suggestions? I am not doing this to get laid, you know. And I don't see what happened back at the Manor as something bad.

I believe we'll be seeing her again, and when it happens, I want her on my team. I am okay with her having an ulterior motive.

I have already half-agreed to her proposal in my mind, all I want to hear is that it isn't something outrageous. But that's just me.

If you think you can turn her down gently now, you can back out of her proposal once you find you can't stomach it. That is what your 5 Speech and 7 CHA are for. You can even move out of the inn, if you don't want to owe her any more favors.

 

[Baltika9]

The guy in the next room can be a mugger, and the guy on the floor above can be a smuggler. It doesn't reflect on who you are.

Oh, right, we just happened to be right next to the heir of the Wudang Sect, in a room we rented when all the others were taken. And she also appears to be our friend. Nope, nothing suspicious at all.

Bros, AB is trying to have it both ways and it will lead to disaster, It's either BB or AA, go full Quiling or full Infiltrator to exploit our plan to the maximum. Let's not get carried away into doing both at once.

I believe we'll be seeing her again, and when it happens, I want her on my team. I am okay with her having an ulterior motive.

I have already half-agreed to her proposal in my mind, all I want to hear is that it isn't something outrageous. But that's just me.

Okay, so what you're saying is, you want to put her problems ahead of ours? Because that's exactly what we'll have to do if we accept her offer, we'll have to get involved in her bullshit or piss her off enough that she will want to fuck us over in return.

If you think you can turn her down gently now, you can back out of her proposal once you find you can't stomach it. That is what your 5 Speech and 7 CHA are for. You can even move out of the inn, if you don't want to owe her any more favors.

A shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich, no matter how well presented. We can make our declination very pretty with flowery words, but it'll still be a "no" and she's socially savvy enough to pick up on that, and she will be insulted by our backpedaling. Being her errand boy doesn't sit right with me, we have our own shit to take care of and investigate.

 

[Grimgravy]

Chi Qilin might not be too miffed until she learns we decided to sleep like some transient hobo. Aside from that, our sword is currently disguised. She has no reason to be interested in it. Street thugs, thieves, and opportunistic vagrants all have reason to bash our sleeping hobo ass over the head and steal it. We just learned we can't sneak in the city as well as the country. What makes you think we can camp out in the streets any better? Qilin is mischievous but not hostile. Her offer just seems better than the dangers of the streets.

I disagree with this.

There will be no fighting outside the tournament allowed in the city for the duration of the competition, as decreed by the Eight Major Sects. This is to prevent butthurt losers from getting their sect buddies and starting a street fight, which has happened before to their eternal shame. The Eight police this rule rather strictly, and any orthodox member caught in a fight will be severely punished, if not expelled.

The city will be policed rather heavily to ensure that no fights break out. The strange thing is, being on the streets is actually safer than staying in with Chi Qiling as far as theft and assault are concerned. Who's going to start a fight in this city when the disciples from every orthodox sect will be watching like hawks to make sure no trouble breaks out?

As for Chi Qiling, she has an enticing initial offer, but you know there's going to be more to it than just money.

Note that I didn't say fight. I was talking purely about a passing vagrant/thief robbing, slitting our throat, or otherwise harming us. Staying in the inn may have its issues, but they will be far less random than the issues of staying on the street. If something goes down at the inn, we'll know it's part of a bigger issue.

 

[Esquilax]

You don't choose your neighbours when you rent a room.
The guy in the next room can be a mugger, and the guy on the floor above can be a smuggler. It doesn't reflect on who you are.
I honestly can't see how you can view it as a valid argument.

That doesn't matter. Presenting ourselves as unorthodox means that we make a bad first impression. Staying right across a known poisoner isn't going to be treated as a coincidence. Our experience at Songfeng should have taught us this:

It looks like despite her friendly nature and the services Cao’er has rendered, the eccentric reputation of Master Yao - helped along by you - is not a wall that can be surmounted all that easily. You resist the urge to scream your innocence, or to shout anything sarcastic that they could misinterpret. Taking a deep breath, you calm yourself. Protesting your innocence or suddenly accusing Rong Zhiyu of poisoning will only make you look worse at this point. Expecting anyone in this school to believe your word over that of their young master, without any shred of evidence, when you are in a pinch yourself and could be expected to lie to save your own skin - that is an exercise in futility.

If people know that we are living under the same roof as Chi Qilin, they aren't gonna give us the benefit of the doubt. It's just not going to happen, they will just assume we're guilty, just like back at Songfeng. I just don't see how you can argue that staying with her doesn't drastically increase the probability of our position being compromised. You are trying to have one foot in the orthodox world and another foot in the unorthodox world - how is this going to end well?

I don't see what your goal in all of this is. I am here to maintain anonymity while exposing the weaknesses of our enemies. She complicates this. You haven't shown why she isn't a liability here.

Note that I didn't say fight. I was talking purely about a passing vagrant/thief robbing, slitting our throat, or otherwise harming us. Staying in the inn may have its issues, but they will be far less random than the issues of staying on the street. If something goes down at the inn, we'll know it's part of a bigger issue.

Okay, and the poisoner living across from us can't do all these things either? The town is going to be locked down like crazy while the tournament is going on, so the streets are going to be safe. In any case, that's tangential to my main point, which is that trying to maintain contact with someone like Chi Qilin is a horrible idea if we want to fly under the radar and get the orthodox characters to trust us enough to reveal their vulnerabilities.

 

[Baltika9]

treave, unrelated question: what kind of training and skills could Jing have acquired had he stayed in the palace? I'm guessing military/royal guard or secret police. But what else? Also, are there any styles that allow one to fight effectively in armor?

On another note, I've just noticed how Jing's misadventures remind me a little of the Sleeping Dogs scenario. Including the women.

 

[kazgar]

You don't choose your neighbours when you rent a room.
The guy in the next room can be a mugger, and the guy on the floor above can be a smuggler. It doesn't reflect on who you are.
I honestly can't see how you can view it as a valid argument.

That doesn't matter. Presenting ourselves as unorthodox means that we make a bad first impression. Staying right across a known poisoner isn't going to be treated as a coincidence. Our experience at Songfeng should have taught us this:

It looks like despite her friendly nature and the services Cao’er has rendered, the eccentric reputation of Master Yao - helped along by you - is not a wall that can be surmounted all that easily. You resist the urge to scream your innocence, or to shout anything sarcastic that they could misinterpret. Taking a deep breath, you calm yourself. Protesting your innocence or suddenly accusing Rong Zhiyu of poisoning will only make you look worse at this point. Expecting anyone in this school to believe your word over that of their young master, without any shred of evidence, when you are in a pinch yourself and could be expected to lie to save your own skin - that is an exercise in futility.

If people know that we are living under the same roof as Chi Qilin, they aren't gonna give us the benefit of the doubt. It's just not going to happen, they will just assume we're guilty, just like back at Songfeng. I just don't see how you can argue that staying with her doesn't drastically increase the probability of our position being compromised. You are trying to have one foot in the orthodox world and another foot in the unorthodox world - how is this going to end well?

I don't see what your goal in all of this is. I am here to maintain anonymity while exposing the weaknesses of our enemies. She complicates this. You haven't shown why she isn't a liability here.

Note that I didn't say fight. I was talking purely about a passing vagrant/thief robbing, slitting our throat, or otherwise harming us. Staying in the inn may have its issues, but they will be far less random than the issues of staying on the street. If something goes down at the inn, we'll know it's part of a bigger issue.

Okay, and the poisoner living across from us can't do all these things either? The town is going to be locked down like crazy while the tournament is going on, so the streets are going to be safe. In any case, that's tangential to my main point, which is that trying to maintain contact with someone like Chi Qilin is a horrible idea if we want to fly under the radar and get the orthodox characters to trust us enough to reveal their vulnerabilities.

Hmm, does she walk around all day with "i'm a poisoner!" sandwich board on?

 

[treave]

treave, unrelated question: what kind of training and skills could Jing have acquired had he stayed in the palace? I'm guessing military/royal guard or secret police. But what else? Also, are there any styles that allow one to fight effectively in armor?

Assassination techniques, more poison, and defensive skills. Also, stats boost focus around perception and intelligence. Armor isn't restrictive enough that you need a special technique to fight in it.

 

[Baltika9]

I see. That might be a long-term investment we might want to look into. I'm thinking of very light lamellar armor by our vital organs.

 

[treave]

Why walk about with armour when you can purchase a protective metal vest which you can conceal under your garments?

Anyway, real men walk about topless.

***

ERYFKRAD - AB
Nevill - AB
m4davis - AB
Jester - AB
Esquilax - AA
Smashing Axe - AB
Zero Credibility - AB
TOME - AB
Kipeci - AB
Stygian Lurker - AB
Tigranes - BA
Kashmir Slippers - AB
ScubaV - AB
Baltika9 - AA
Ifeex - AB
Absinthe - AA
XenomorphII - AB
Grimgravy - AB
Azira - AA
The Brazilian Slaughter - AA
LWC1996 - AA

***

Current tally:

1. A - 20, B - 1

2. A - 7, B - 14