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Esquilax

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Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
I've reposted the bracket so that we can take a long-term view of which matches we want to see:

zRUH55M.png

With the way that the brackets are set up, if we see Nameless, Faceless and Shapeless, it'll be no sooner than the finals. We already have suspicions that these masked competitors are linked to the masked impostors, but you have to remember that even though we have no idea who they are, they have no idea who we are:

Luckily, they seem to have no idea who you really are, though your little attack will have put them on guard. They should think you are nothing more than some noble young do-gooder - plenty of those in town during the tournament period - who passed by and decided to stick his nose into matters not of his business.

They are a serious threat, but considering that they are in a separate bracket and the impostors that we suspect they're linked to have no idea who we are, so I believe that this is something we can leave for further into the competition. Right now, we ought to focus on winning this match. Should we defeat Yiling, we should watch the next Murong Yandi fight personally to gain an even better idea of his style and how to counter it. I think treave said that we would need to see someone fight in at least two separate instances to start formulating counters to their style, so sending Cao'er to watch his fight would be a waste considering we've seen him in action once.

I'll change my vote if we can't talk with Cao'er during the match. That's my big draw.

Why wouldn't we be able to talk to her? Yes, the Abbess won't like it, but the Abbess has also promised not to rat us out. That being said, I agree with you in that I'm pretty sure that she'll know exactly who we are once she sees the idiot in the pig mask watching the fight with Cao'er. Still, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing: warning her about the impostors claiming to be Zhang's apprentice and their connection to the Prince could certainly be a good thing. In fact, I'm a little tempted just to go in as a spectator, because Yifang would be too busy fighting to notice us, while the Abbess and Cao'er would obviously not reveal us.
 

Baltika9

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Messages
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Why wouldn't we be able to talk to her? Yes, the Abbess won't like it, but the Abbess has also promised not to rat us out. That being said, I agree with you in that I'm pretty sure that she'll know exactly who we are once she sees the idiot in the pig mask watching the fight with Cao'er. Still, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing: warning her about the impostors claiming to be Zhang's apprentice and their connection to the Prince could certainly be a good thing. In fact, I'm a little tempted just to go in as a spectator, because Yifang would be too busy fighting to notice us, while the Abbess and Cao'er would obviously not reveal us.
How didn't I think of this sooner? I doubt we'll be allowed anywhere close to the sect heads, but we can use Cao'er to warn the Abbess about what's going on here and whom she should keep her eyes peeled for. She already knows we came to the tournament, she just doesn't know who we are. With us acting from the shadows and the orthodox sects being coordinated out in the open like police, we can really curb the MiB's plans around here.

Special Agent Xu Jing, reporting for duty.
 

Kipeci

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Messages
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Location
Vicksburg
Well, that was an utter waste of our time. We got hurt and gained... what, exactly?

I vote that both we and Cao'er observe Yiling in her match and then Cao'er can look over... either our own match (she can spot our flaws that we might not be noticing) or Murong's. Since we've already seen him in action, it might be good to have Cao'er check our match to see if we have some egregious problem, so I'll vote that she watches our match.

Oh, and B. Maybe overconfident, but that's our character...
 

Esquilax

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Messages
4,833
Well, that was an utter waste of our time. We got hurt and gained... what, exactly?

That the same people who are responsible for the attempted assassination of the Prince are the same people attempting to use us as a scapegoat for something in the tournament. Now, we don't know what that "something" is yet, but it does probably mean that the invite we received was not sent by the committee at all, it was sent by the organization that the Woman-in-Black belongs to. We can now also suspect that Nameless, Shapeless and Faceless are also linked with this group.

If you were expecting a big revelation, I suppose it's a disappointment, but this piece of information is very useful. We didn't go to Yuhua Hall when we had the chance to, so finding information pertinent to Shun's mission is a big deal. We probably would have learned more about this or had the chance to nip this plan in the bud beforehand, but we must deal with it now. Not that I regret saving Yao and Cao'er at all, but rather that some tradeoffs are to be expected.

I vote that both we and Cao'er observe Yiling in her match and then Cao'er can look over... either our own match (she can spot our flaws that we might not be noticing) or Murong's. Since we've already seen him in action, it might be good to have Cao'er check our match to see if we have some egregious problem, so I'll vote that she watches our match.

Now this is a very smart idea. This is exactly why your coach supervises you when you spar - to point out the mistakes you're making. I'm considering flopping to this.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I am considering this during a match after Yiling's, who is our toughest competitor and almost-the-champion-of-the-previous-tournament, but before the match with Yandi, who is our next toughest competitor. That means we can safely do it during our fight with Nie Mudan. Who will be observed by Cao'er right now to ensure that we win that match.

Yiling and Yandi will be the hardest fights. We need every advantage we can get.
 
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Tigranes

Arcane
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Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Yes, that sounds smart.

Jing watches Yiling; Cao'er watches Jing and Yiling.
 

Nevill

Arcane
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Messages
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Then no one watches Nie Mudan and we fight her blindly. She isn't as dangerous as Yiling and Yandi, but she is still a force to be reckoned with.
 

Baltika9

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Messages
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Well, that was an utter waste of our time. We got hurt and gained... what, exactly?

I vote that both we and Cao'er observe Yiling in her match and then Cao'er can look over... either our own match (she can spot our flaws that we might not be noticing) or Murong's. Since we've already seen him in action, it might be good to have Cao'er check our match to see if we have some egregious problem, so I'll vote that she watches our match.
With the way we're disoriented from the palm strike, there will be more flaws and egregious problems in our techniques than usual. It will be hard for her to tell which ones are usual and which ones are not.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Flopped:
edit:
Xu Jing: Gu Dipeng vs Yifang
Cao'er (1): Gu Dipeng vs Yifang
Cao'er (2) Yiling vs Man Tiger Pig
B
 
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Esquilax

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Messages
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Tigranes, just a heads-up, Cao'er will watch two fights for us: one in the first session and another in the second session. You can edit your post to include another fight from the first session.

Bros, a few thoughts: I believe that we can almost unanimously agree that we'd like to at the very least reach the semi-finals. We've invested some time in partially piecing together Murong Yandi's style so that we can beat him, so we'd like that investment to pay off. Because of this, looking at Yifang's fight with Cao'er to get a good understanding of Emei technique is a smart idea. However, the actions of this group that's associated with the Woman in Black really complicate things for us.

I think we should consider having Cao'er watch the Nameless vs Shapeless fight while we're in the ring with Yiling. I know that I said that the fight will probably be worked based on what I had said in my previous post, and I still stand by that, but I think we should view the fight for the purposes of our investigation into the people who tried to assassinate Shun and now frame us. While both competitors are wearing masks, Cao'er has PER 10, and could discern things like mannerisms, clothing, tattoos*, and gender** that could give us a lot of clues for an ID. We probably won't read much about their style, even with Cao'er's sharp eyes watching, but it would give us a leg up on the investigation very early on. We won't have another opportunity to look at two of the masked competitors at the same time.

It'll still have downsides. We would be forgoing our only chance to observe Nie Mudan before we fight her. She isn't in the same league with last year's Huashan champion, and I suspect that Yiling and Murong Yandi are both better than her, but she's still a tough competitor that we shouldn't take lightly.

* Considering that they're always masked when operating in public, they must have ways of determining each other's identities somehow. They can't proudly display their robes like the orthodox sects do, so I'd say that tattoos are a good bet in terms of identifying characteristics.

** The gender part is a big one. When Anita Sarkeesian was trying to kill the Prince and spouting her vile radfem rhetoric, that gave us the clue that her organization was probably all-female. Sure enough, the impostor that we tracked down was a girl:

The first person-in-black you chased leaps at you with a battlecry. Now there is no mistaking it; it is a girl.

If all three of the masked competitors are female, well, that is another point consistent with them being aligned with the Woman-in-Black, which we're already quite certain of anyways.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Agreed, flopping my vote to:
Gu Dipeng vs Yifang.
Caoe'er: Gu Dipeng vs Yifang; Faceless vs. Shapeless.
B,
always bet on Jing!
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Esquilax well, I confused myself there. Wait, Kipeci's suggesting that Jing & Cao'er watch Yiling, then Cao'er additionally watches either our own match or Murong's.... but we're fighting Yiling, which makes that impossible on several ideas. Then you called it a good idea. What's going on?

ERYFKRAD you might want to double-check too.
 

Azira

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
8,519
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
Codex 2012
In the first round,
Xu Jing watches the Gu Dipeng vs Yifang match together with Cao'er
In the second round,
Cao'er watches the Yiling vs Man Tiger Pig match. :salute:

B. You bet on yourself winning.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Esquilax well, I confused myself there. Wait, Kipeci's suggesting that Jing & Cao'er watch Yiling, then Cao'er additionally watches either our own match or Murong's.... but we're fighting Yiling, which makes that impossible on several ideas. Then you called it a good idea. What's going on?

No, we would be watching Yifang with Cao'er, not Yiling. We aren't as perceptive, so this way we'd be able to talk and she'd be able to point out things that we might miss before our match. The logic here is that even if Yifang and Yiling are two different fighters, they're still Emei nuns - plus, since Yifang is better, figuring her out will mean that we have a far easier time figuring out Yiling. Since we decided to go after the impostor during the last update, we have to cram for the exam here, and this seems like the best way to prepare.

This part, most of us agree on.

The next part is what Cao'er will do while we're in the ring. During the second session, we obviously can't watch, because we're fighting during that session, but Cao'er can. So Kipeci's idea is to have Cao'er watch our fight with an eye towards weaknesses and technical mistakes that could be exploited. The intention here is to polish our skills a bit, presumably.

There are other ideas, too. Mainly, watching Nie Mudan so that we can prepare for her, because she's most likely our next fight, or to watch Nameless vs Shapeless so that we can get some clues as to their appearance so that we can investigate them and find out what they're up to. I'm arguing for the latter.
 

Nevill

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Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Yes, discerning the identities of the masked fighters would be a huge step forward for our investigation.

Forget the style and the moves, what we are seeking are some shared traits that can be attributed not to a person, but to a group. Something that could help us to identify them by sight or by their behavioral patterns. It is in our interests to watch not a single person (Xumao vs Faceless), but several of them (Nameless vs. Shapeless) to spot their similarities and differences and reach a certain conclusion about their group as a whole. We can use more clues if we are to see this investigation bear fruit.

Note that we won't have such a chance until the finals (AC bracket), if the masked fighters even make it this far. By then it might become too late to stop their plot. So that is an argument in favor of observing the Nameless vs Shapeless fight. It is a bit of a long shot, though.

Another argument can be made in favor of overseeing Nie Mudan and maximizing our chances to fight with - and possibly prevail over - Yandi. We wanted to see where we stand among our peers. Defeating both the Sword Saint's disciple and the almost-champion of the previous tournament would alleviate our concern and place us right at the top of the power graph. It would be a shame if we fail in our next fight (after Yiling's, I mean) due to going into it unprepared, never reaching Yandi. The masks could be kept in check by the Emei if we let the word of their plot slip to the Abbess. Unfortunately, we have no idea of what the plot is, yet, except for the "pretending to be Zhang Jue's disciple and attacking people" part.

So all in all, it depends on whether we want to concentrate on taking the conspiracy down, or winning the tournament/confirming our standing in the pugilistic world.

Edit: Flopped the vote for the second match to Cao'er (2) Nameless vs Shapeless
 
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Baltika9

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I think we should consider having Cao'er watch the Nameless vs Shapeless fight while we're in the ring with Yiling. I know that I said that the fight will probably be worked based on what I had said in my previous post, and I still stand by that, but I think we should view the fight for the purposes of our investigation into the people who tried to assassinate Shun and now frame us. While both competitors are wearing masks, Cao'er has PER 10, and could discern things like mannerisms, clothing, tattoos*, and gender** that could give us a lot of clues for an ID. We probably won't read much about their style, even with Cao'er's sharp eyes watching, but it would give us a leg up on the investigation very early on. We won't have another opportunity to look at two of the masked competitors at the same time.
Completely agreed, if there's one thing we can safely assume about their motivations, they don't mean well to anyone we know and hold dear (anyone who has the balls, or lack thereof, to fuck with Zhang is a person to be wary of), Jing included. These WiB (Womyn In Black, graciously provided by Esquilax) are definitely in the same organization as the crazy ninja lady from the Ashina camp and they warrant immediate investigation and curbing. I'm sure that we can work something out with the Abbess, her coordinating the orthodox sects as a police force and us working from the shadows (here's your JC, ScubaV), but we absolutely must give her some info to work with beyond "these chicks that look like dudes wearing black clothing." To that end, having Cao'er spot something we can identify them by in the streets is a very good idea, combined with Quiling's short class on urban environments, we can shadow them across the city and investigate for clues and evidence, maybe even their HQ (and then anonymously tip off Zhang that someone is going around slandering his name, the results should be hilariously violent).

Why should we care? For one, they are the only link we found to the attempt on Shun's life back in three years, they are most definitely a threat to the stability of the realm and they are going around pissing on our reputation. While one of the benefits of going unorthodox is not giving that much of a damn what the orthodoxes think of you, this is another matter entirely, I have no desire to be the scapegoat of some kooky plan they made up, fuck that, I don't like being a victim and neither does Jing. Lastly, this will make our already difficult life much harder if we get the blame for offing an innocent person/rabble rousing/get a bounty put on our head/whatever.

So, yes, I do think that investigating them takes priority right now, we are definitely talented and skilled enough to get past our fights otherwise.
 

Stygian Lurker

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
577
Xu Jing: Gu Dipeng vs Yifang

Cao'er (1): Gu Dipeng vs Yifang
Cao'er (2) Jixuan Wuni vs Nie Mudan

B
 

Tigranes

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Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Thanks Esquilax for the clarification. I only have one useful thing to say, I think:

If the -less trio are probably those conspiring against us, then wouldn't Nameless v. Shapeless be a rigged match? Wouldn't they not do their best, and not show their cards? I don't know how useful it would be to watch them. Faceless vs Xumao might be better in this regard, since they're probably not as good fighters as us individually and couldn't hope to win without showing their ability at all.

Adjusting my vote to:

Jing watches Yifang
Cao'er watches Yifang, & Faceless
B
 

Nevill

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Messages
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Cao'er can not watch Yifang & Faceless, because the matches are conducted in the same session.

We are watching Nameless vs Shapeless not because we want to learn their style. The fact that the match is rigged should have no bearing on the small details of their act that we are researching, hoping to find some common trait between them.

We also search something to identify them with. Gender. Age. Moles. Scars. Tatoos. Manners. Anything would be useful, and we may be forced to act on this information soon. The more of them we get to observe, the better.
 
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Esquilax

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Messages
4,833
If the -less trio are probably those conspiring against us, then wouldn't Nameless v. Shapeless be a rigged match? Wouldn't they not do their best, and not show their cards? I don't know how useful it would be to watch them.

You're right, it would be a worked fight, I mentioned as such in my first post. This would basically be a fairly convincing-looking pro-wrestling match. However, my intentions in watching the Shapeless vs Nameless fight wouldn't be to uncover tips about their fighting style, but tips about their identity. Their faces might be covered, but they might have identifying marks on their bodies, maybe they wear identifiable bits of jewelry, that sort of thing. They're a secret organization, but they must have methods of identifying one another. Cao'er would be able to notice this.
 

ScubaV

Prophet
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
1,022
Xu Jing: Gu Dipeng vs Yifang
Cao'er (1): Xumao vs Faceless
Cao'er (2) Jixuan Wuni vs Nie Mudan
B


I like this combo. It gets scouting in on Yifang, Faceless, and our opponent for the next round if we win.
 

Tigranes

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Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Bleurgh. I can't deal with so many permutations, I haven't paid enough attention to the bracket.

Jing watches Yifang
Cao'er watches Yifang, & Nameless-Shapeless
B
 

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