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Esquilax

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Okay, well, the masked fighters are definitely unrelated to the WiB masquerading as Zhang's apprentices. We had an inkling of it earlier as the original Woman-in-Black was Han and we knew the "-less" trio were all foreigners. If there are people coming after Guo Fu, well, that's why he has Murong Yandi to watch his back. He should be fine. While I really want to learn more of this mysterious Persian fighter and to get a few of her tricks, stopping these impostors could take precedence.

People like that can't be kept waiting.
What are they gonna do? Complain to Zee-Jay about our rude behavior?

You know, this is a great point. They know at this point that we're Zhang's apprentice, and they're likely going to offer us help with a set of conditions (i.e. we can't have you winning and making a mockery of our tournament, which is exactly what we wanted to do). Ignoring the summons because we simply don't give a fuck means that they have less of an ability to dictate what it is they want us to do. In any case, the Abbess, the Grand Taoist and the Abbot have all been made aware of the threat; why do we need to talk to them? Just because they asked? We don't owe them a fucking thing.

I think that it's important to remember that the goal of Zhang's challenge is not to make friends, it's to prove that we're the greatest young pugilist out there by humiliating all of the orthodox sects. We're not going to needlessly antagonize people, but at the same time, we shouldn't really go out of our way to please a bunch of people that we're (a) rivals with, and (b) who have no authority over us. The fun of being unorthodox is that we don't have to listen to a single word these fucks say. They already know what's going on, why do they need us around?

A
 
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Nevill

Sorry man, I still think you are on the wrong track. Both about the identities of the masked participants (didn't treave say that all contestant - even those that will be masked - are at least expected to look the appropriate age? I seem to remember he did, but I can't find it now) and about their plans (because I just find the idea of doing that and escaping with all those badasses around unlikely). And now that the trio seems to have Persian origin, I find their connection to this whole mess even less likely. I don't know what their game is, but I doubt it it's this.
 

Baltika9

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People like that can't be kept waiting.
What are they gonna do? Complain to Zee-Jay about our rude behavior?

You know, this is a great point. They know at this point that we're Zhang's apprentice, and they're likely going to offer us help with a set of conditions (i.e. we can't have you winning and making a mockery of our tournament, which is exactly what we wanted to do). Ignoring the summons because we simply don't give a fuck means that they have less of an ability to dictate what it is they want us to do. In any case, the Abbess, the Grand Taoist and the Abbot have all been made aware of the threat; why do we need to talk to them? Just because they asked? We don't owe them a fucking thing.
I haven't considered it from this angle, of course they'll want to cut us "deal" where they walk away with the advantage. Miecao might have told them about our true allegiances, or she might have not because we have our little "understanding." Still, we'll be grilled by Masters of the three most powerful orthodox sects, we'll have a clear disadvantage in any negotiations if there will be any. And going up there for a little interview seems like a waste of time, they already know what's going on.

Fuck dA Po-lice. Again, what are they going to do, complain to Zhang? Pfft.
 

treave

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Probably just paddle over to Maniac Island with his hands, on a dingy raft, and kick Zhang Jue's ass yet again for not teaching his disciple any manners, if the Grand Taoist were so inclined. :troll:

Suppose one of them wins the tournament, and walks up to the Shaolinn monk to claim their prize. Then, when nobody expect that, they murder the chap, screaming "BLOOD FOR T THERE IS NO MASTER BUT ZHANG JUE!" on the top of their lungs. Then, when everyone is shocked and confused by the sudden turn of events, they lunge at the crowd, trying to get away.

It would be funny if the dagger bounces off the Abbot when they tried that. :lol:
 
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These people are the powerplayers of the setting and right now we need powerful friends (or allies anyway). Working with them is our best bet at uncovering the conspiracy, which is our real mission, this tournament be damned. Also, having them around on good terms could come in handy for the future in case our current relationship to Zhang comes to a violent ending. And I really fear that no other ending is possible with him.
 

Nevill

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Zero Credibility said:
Sorry man, I still think you are on the wrong track.
Yeah, now when I've read the update I feel stupid typing all of that down. Oh, well.

I am tempted to go C. I want to see for myself what kind of a man the Great Taoist is. The man was our greatest hope before Zhang picked us up and turned us into his nemesis.
 

Azira

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Naughty of Cao'er and Qiling wandering off like that without even a "thank you" or a short explanation what kind of qi poison was used. Those ungrateful two. :lol:

As to the vote.. Hmmm.. If Guo has indeed been assaulted, our fight might just default to a win.
We're not from one of the orthodox sects, so we can get away with ignoring the summons, but accepting it would help our standing in those sects.

Now, Zhang Jue didn't ask us specifically to humiliate the best from the sects. His words were these:

"The competition is just a sideshow. The prelude to the real test I have for you. Xu Jing, I order you to go to each of the eight major orthodox sects, and challenge the best of their young disciples. I have heard stories of how this generation – your generation – has the potential to be the best pugilists ever seen. I expect my disciple to be the greatest amongst them. Do anything you have to win, to show that you are the strongest."

My take is, we can defeat them and still be in relatively good standing. They'd have to admit we're the strongest, but we could take most of them in a straight fight, no need to antagonize them needlessly. We have a quite good charisma, and if we're up against some unknown menace, it can pay to have allies. Such as the killer physician, his old love and their two grandchildren. No telling if the Abbot and Grand Taoist are bros or not, but I think we'll walk away a bit wiser from the meeting.
Question is, do we give up too much by answering the summons? They do not have Cao'er's special quality, they cannot read our qi without channelling some of their own into Jing, so I guess that secret should remain relatively safe. So what would we be giving away? Our identity? Yifang has already spoiled that for us.

I could go with any of these choices, but I feel the heads of those three sects are probably those who could tell us the most. Or at least those with the most resources to help, should they want to.

C
 

Baltika9

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These people are the powerplayers of the setting and right now we need powerful friends (or allies anyway). Working with them is our best bet at uncovering the conspiracy, which is our real mission, this tournament be damned. Also, having them around on good terms could come in handy for the future in case our current relationship to Zhang comes to a violent ending. And I really fear that no other ending is possible with him.
Oh, definitely. I'm pretty sure our final test under his tutelage would be to kill him, to prove that we became strong.
Still, what's the point of gong up there? The Masters won't feel at all inclined to give us a fair deal if they know we'er Zhang's apprentice, probably give us "help" in exchange for something that disadvantages us completely, like Esquilax said.
 

Esquilax

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I'd like to point out that if we meet Abbot Fangzhang and Grand Taoist Wang right now, we won't reveal our true identity or the Prince's mission:

There's no real need to reveal your identity for now, and the character will never tell anyone that he is from the palace with a mission unless it is a matter of life or death for someone important to him.

I haven't considered it from this angle, of course they'll want to cut us "deal" where they walk away with the advantage. Miecao might have told them about our true allegiances, or she might have not because we have our little "understanding." Still, we'll be grilled by Masters of the three most powerful orthodox sects, we'll have a clear disadvantage in any negotiations if there will be any. And going up there for a little interview seems like a waste of time, they already know what's going on.

To be fair, these guys are upstanding orthodox types, so while they of course want the advantage in dealing with Zhang's apprentice, I think they'll still be pretty fair with us. Also, look at C again:

You heed the summons of the Abbess. This is not something you can turn down lightly, and an excellent opportunity for you to finally meet the two strongest martial artists in person. They might know something you don't.

Let's look at the information at hand. A committee of the Eight Sects hands out the invitations to the tournament, something that the various sect heads are unaware of because they don't deal with small-fry shit like that. This particular year, we suspect that a third party, the same one that tried to kill the Prince, sent us an invitation to this year's tournament because verification for this sort of thing is incredibly easy to circumvent. We showed up anonymously, they send out a series of impostors to cause chaos during the tournament, likely as a prelude to some sort of violent act.

I assume there have been several attacks on orthodox disciples, and the sect heads have probably managed to gather some more clues about what's going on. Things like: what streets are the most dangerous, maybe the description of one of the attackers, likely hideouts, etc. If we combine whatever information they've managed to put together with our own knowledge of who these people really are, we could really start gaining some momentum in this investigation.

Probably just paddle over to Maniac Island with his hands, on a dingy raft, and kick Zhang Jue's ass yet again for not teaching his disciple any manners, if the Grand Taoist were so inclined.

Perhaps, but he can't exactly do anything about us. We're a quarter-finalist, he can't just drop us off the competition this far in just because of some perceived slight, that would be dishonorable.
 

Nevill

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Baltika9 said:
The Masters won't feel at all inclined to give us a fair deal if they know we'er Zhang's apprentice, probably give us "help" in exchange for something that disadvantages us completely, like Esquilax said.
Do we need help any more than they do?

Someone is playing the pugilists one against the other and saws strife. We have but our life to lose. They have their reputation and the lives of hundreds of their disciples. I'd say we are not at a disadvantage.
 

Baltika9

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Probably just paddle over to Maniac Island with his hands, on a dingy raft, and kick Zhang Jue's ass yet again for not teaching his disciple any manners, if the Grand Taoist were so inclined.

Perhaps, but he can't exactly do anything about us. We're a quarter-finalist, he can't just drop us off the competition this far in just because of some perceived slight, that would be dishonorable.
And who says we have to follow our end of the deal if we don't like it. Sure, we'll take a rep hit and get a dishonorable rep, but we're unorthodox and Zhang's apprentice. What are they gonna do?
And if they attempt to strong-arm us, "Hey gam-gam, how are your little girls doing?"
 

asxetos

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Awesome update :)

All our options are interesting but i am going with C because the masters may have something important to tell us.
I am pretty sure that Guo Fu and Yandi are not in any serious trouble, and that Qilin will share anything she finds out about the Persian figher.
 

Nevill

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Esquilax said:
I think that it's important to remember that the goal of Zhang's challenge is not to make friends, it's to prove that we're the greatest young pugilist out there by humiliating all of the orthodox sects. We're not going to needlessly antagonize people, but at the same time, we shouldn't really go out of our way to please a bunch of people that we're (a) rivals with, and (b) who have no authority over us.
There is Shun's mission to consider before Zhang's. The orthodox sects are still your allies against the third party, if you look at the greater picture.
Baltika9 said:
And if they attempt to strong-arm us, "Hey gam-gam, how are your little girls doing?"
Pfft! Blackmailing the Abbess? I've heard that one before.
 
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Still, what's the point of gong up there? The Masters won't feel at all inclined to give us a fair deal if they know we'er Zhang's apprentice, probably give us "help" in exchange for something that disadvantages us completely, like Esquilax said.
Maybe they will ask something for their help, or maybe they are just worried about unknown masked assailants wrecking havoc in the city they are supposed to keep peace in. But it can't hurt to at least listen to what they say - they are powerful enough to help us greatly if they choose to do so and the Abbess seems to like us already. Hell, just meeting them could give us valuable info for our real mission.
 

Nevill

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Zero Credibility said:
Maybe they will ask something for their help
Maybe they will ask for your help. Orthodox types are quite limited in their choice of options. They might need you to do some dirty work for them, to the mutual benefit of all factions.
 

Baltika9

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Baltika9 said:
And if they attempt to strong-arm us, "Hey gam-gam, how are your little girls doing?"
Pfft! Blackmailing the Abbess? I've heard that one before.
If it ever comes down to the point where she's trying to take advantage and push a really shitty deal on us, all bets are off.
Zero Credibility said:
Maybe they will ask something for their help
Maybe they will ask for your help. Orthodox types are quite limited in their choice of options. They might need you to do some dirty work for them, to the mutual benefit.
And that's definitely possible, they always need someone that can get their hands dirty with things they can't. However, if does come down to that, they owe us nothing and can be quite okay with using us as a scapegoat. Don't gamble on their magnanimity, it's all about face and appearances before the public for the orthodox sects. In private dealings, these Masters can be unscrupulous assholes (let's not forget that the Triad criminal organization was founded by the Five Shaolin Masters), and we're the expendable asset.
I am pretty sure that Guo Fu and Yandi are not in any serious trouble, and that Qilin will share anything she finds out about the Persian figher.
But she may not learn nearly as much without us.
 

Nevill

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Baltika9 said:
And that's definitely possible, they always need someone that can get their hands dirty with things they can't. However, if does come down to that, they owe us nothing and can be quite okay to use us as a scapegoat. Don't gamble on their magnanimity, it's all about face and appearances before the public for the orthodox sects. In private dealings, these Masters can be unscrupulous assholes (let's not forget that the Triad criminal organization was founded by the Five Shaolin Masters), and we're the expendable asset.
Funnily, same goes to you, only you don't even have a public face to save. So your meeting will be on equal terms.
 

asxetos

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Zero Credibility said:
Maybe they will ask something for their help
Maybe they will ask for your help. Orthodox types are quite limited in their choice of options. They might need you to do some dirty work for them, to the mutual benefit of all factions.

i think it will go like this:
"we cant directly help you because its politics but we want you to keep looking and keep us in the loop. also here is what we know so far..."
or, teribly, like this:
"stop your investigating at once because you are in above your head and it will not end well..."

Whatever the outcome, it will be good to know where they are standing and how much they are willing to reveal.

Plus, if the meeting ends in our favor, we may get some protips from the Grand Taoist of Wudang about our qi.
That guy is the authority when it comes to highly mixed yin and yang.
 

Esquilax

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And who says we have to follow our end of the deal if we don't like it. Sure, we'll take a rep hit and get a dishonorable rep, but we're unorthodox and Zhang's apprentice. What are they gonna do?
And if they attempt to strong-arm us, "Hey gam-gam, how are your little girls doing?"

I'd rather not blackmail the Abbess. Even if you're a sociopath (like me), this would probably hurt us just as badly as it hurts her. Yifang becomes an outcast among the other nuns, Cao'er hates us for ratting out her grandmother, and we lose a very influential friend. Not worth it. I'd rather suck it up and take the rep hit. Let the haters hate.

"The competition is just a sideshow. The prelude to the real test I have for you. Xu Jing, I order you to go to each of the eight major orthodox sects, and challenge the best of their young disciples. I have heard stories of how this generation – your generation – has the potential to be the best pugilists ever seen. I expect my disciple to be the greatest amongst them. Do anything you have to win, to show that you are the strongest."

You also forgot the part after that: "Maim them if you have to. Kill them if you need to."

Now, I'm not advocating going out of our way to piss off the orthodox sects - and I see a lot of good arguments in favour of C - but if we piss off a few of them, I don't feel bad about it at all. So long as we don't have multiple bounties on our head and a bunch of schools out for our blood, I'm not too concerned with stepping on a few toes. Look at our match against Nie Mudan: we denied Bai Jiutian a peek into our fighting style at the expense of angering his comrades. Totally worth it in my opinion, he is our biggest challenge, so fuck 'em. Take the rep hit and move on.

My take is, we can defeat them and still be in relatively good standing. They'd have to admit we're the strongest, but we could take most of them in a straight fight, no need to antagonize them needlessly. We have a quite good charisma, and if we're up against some unknown menace, it can pay to have allies. Such as the killer physician, his old love and their two grandchildren. No telling if the Abbot and Grand Taoist are bros or not, but I think we'll walk away a bit wiser from the meeting.
Question is, do we give up too much by answering the summons? They do not have Cao'er's special quality, they cannot read our qi without channelling some of their own into Jing, so I guess that secret should remain relatively safe. So what would we be giving away? Our identity? Yifang has already spoiled that for us.

The Grand Taoist can definitely read our qi and he'll probably have a good understanding of us rather quickly:

There appears to be no precedent for your condition. You are unique. As for a cure, it is possible that the Grand Taoist of Wudang, Wang Zhengchong, would be skilled enough to eventually find a way to harmonize and soothe your qi should you seek his aid. The people you ask believe that no one else will even be qualified enough to attempt such a thing without killing the patient in the process.

In fact, not being in close proximity to Wang Zhengchong seems to be an excellent reason to not attend the summons. Remember that we voted for the unarmed combat style that would counter the Wudang technique precisely because they are qi specialists who could potentially see our chaotic qi as abominable. As Master Zhang told us, "The harmony of The Way is heresy to your being." Our very existence seems to go against the balance and harmony that's the basis of their teachings.

It took Zhang Jue approximately five seconds to notice our condition, and I won't be surprised if Wang Zhengchong figures it out just as quickly.
 

Baltika9

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Baltika9 said:
And that's definitely possible, they always need someone that can get their hands dirty with things they can't. However, if does come down to that, they owe us nothing and can be quite okay to use us as a scapegoat. Don't gamble on their magnanimity, it's all about face and appearances before the public for the orthodox sects. In private dealings, these Masters can be unscrupulous assholes (let's not forget that the Triad criminal organization was founded by the Five Shaolin Masters), and we're the expendable asset.
Funnily, same goes to you, only you don't even have a public face to save. So your meeting will be on equal terms.
I don't think one aspiring unorthodox martial artist aged sixteen years "negotiating" with four of the most powerful and wise orthodox Masters is in any way, shape or form an "equal" situation. :lol:
 

Nevill

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Esquilax said:
The Grand Taoist can definitely read our qi and he'll probably have a good understanding of us rather quickly:
Maybe. But what is he going to do about it? Teach all of his disciples the counter to our Chuzhan Fist that nobody had ever seen? Start mass-producing chaos wards?

We'll have to face the man sooner or later. I'd rather do it when he is in a mood to talk peacefully.

Baltika9 said:
I don't think one aspiring unorthodox martial artist aged sixteen years "negotiating" with four of the most powerful and wise orthodox Masters is in any way, shape or form an "equal" situation. :lol:
Nobody is forcing your hand to sign a blood contract. They have no power over you. If you won't like the deal they offer, you can turn and leave.

On the other hand, they might offer you something you desperately need to proceed with the investigation.
 
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Azira

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The Grand Taoist can definitely read our qi and he'll probably have a good understanding of us rather quickly:

There appears to be no precedent for your condition. You are unique. As for a cure, it is possible that the Grand Taoist of Wudang, Wang Zhengchong, would be skilled enough to eventually find a way to harmonize and soothe your qi should you seek his aid. The people you ask believe that no one else will even be qualified enough to attempt such a thing without killing the patient in the process.

In fact, not being in close proximity to Wang Zhengchong seems to be an excellent reason to not attend the summons. Remember that we voted for the unarmed combat style that would counter the Wudang technique precisely because they are qi specialists who could potentially see our chaotic qi as abominable. As Master Zhang told us, "The harmony of The Way is heresy to your being." Our very existence seems to go against the balance and harmony that's the basis of their teachings.

It took Zhang Jue approximately five seconds to notice our condition, and I won't be surprised if Wang Zhengchong figures it out just as quickly.

Remember how Zhang Jue got his reading? He walked up to Jing, put his hands on him and channelled.

Treave has said earlier, that the only person who can read meridians and such at distance is Cao'er. The grand Taoist would have to more or less assault us to get a reading. Does that sound like something an orthodox sect leader would do? The Southern Maniac, sure. This guy's not him.
So don't be absurd, Esquilax. It doesn't become you. :rpgcodex:
 

Baltika9

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Baltika9 said:
I don't think one aspiring unorthodox martial artist aged sixteen years "negotiating" with four of the most powerful and wise orthodox Masters is in any way, shape or form an "equal" situation. :lol:
Nobody is forcing your hand to sign a blood contract. They have no power over you. If you won't like the deal they offer, you can turn and leave.

On the other hand, they might offer you something you desperately need to proceed with the investigation.
We're on their turf, though, and the sectarians are none too amused by our stunts, especially the stripping of Nie Mudan. If they want anything from us, we're at a disadvantage here. Oh well, time for some quick thinking and Magnificent Bastardry.
 

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