Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

[LP CYOA] 傳

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Huh, I must have missed the part where it says we're going to rip his limbs off or gouge his heart out. We're not Zhang-level savages for that.
I can not care less if Jing hurts himself, or if Guo, unaware of his own Strenght (since we never warned him off) sends us in a coma for a month or two. Maybe this would help Jin to get rid of his YOLO attitude. But subjecting our friend to the risk of death out of some misguided and horribly twisted concept of honor sickens me to the core.
A isn't about honor, it's about not being a giant blistered bleeding vagina about a broken arm. That's about it on that front, honestly. Because it is a pussy way to win.
Also, about Jing's YOLO:
You don't get a charisma increase in C. You're not more magnetic. Just more well-disposed towards other people up until they piss you off, then you smash them over the head with a wine jar. :lol:

At any rate, none of the choices gets rid of his cockiness. That shit is too ingrained in him to ever go away.
We ain't getting rid of it and I don't want to. It's just too much fun.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Baltika9 said:
Huh, I must have missed the part where it says we're going to rip his limbs off or gouge his heart out. We're not Zhang-level savages for that.
Oh, it's right there:
treave said:
A. You claim to be alright. It’s time to take this seriously. This is a good chance to go all out in a fight for once, in a fight against an opponent that can bring you down with a single blow. Guo Fu can take anything you can throw at him, and you should be able to improve your fighting skills if you do so. You can beat him. Besides, Cao’er can treat you. Probably. (Sword +1, Unarmed +1)
Can you rip a limb off? Then you will throw it at him, because the guy is sturdy as hell, what's the worst that could happen? He'll block that shit easily.

This is how Jing would think. The Primordial Chaos will take care of the rest.
Baltika9 said:
We ain't getting rid of it and I don't want to. It's just too much fun.
Not when it concerns others. And as I said, I do not care much for it, whether we keep it or not.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
If Jing is retarded enough to disqualify himself by deliberately maiming or killing his opponent, then I don't know what to say, honestly.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Baltika9 said:
If Jing is retarded enough to disqualify himself by deliberately maiming or killing his opponent, then I don't know what to say, honestly.
He is throwing everything he has got. He won't be disqualifying himself deliberately by aiming for the opponents eyes or whatever, his erratic movements would do it for him. He can't aim his blows as precicely as when he is calm and reserved and not under the unfluence of his qi.

And the moves he knows best are the ones that maim and kill.

Don't tell me that the risk isn't there.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I'm disregarding B not because it's 'dishonourable' but because there are multiple reasons against it. (1) On the back of the stripping it will really lose us the crowd as well as the respect of the other pugilists, and once we declare as ZJ's apprentice - well, no dnager of people not believing us, but rather, that people will start to see as us deceptive and 'dishonourable' (according to their code) and, if not batshit crazy like ZJ, still not worth consorting with; (2) It will inform everybody else, including the WiB, that we now have a broken arm, and give them a good window of opportunity; (3) It doesn't really set us up very well to either win the crowd from Bal Jiutian or to impress the masters, if that is a concern. I don't think any of these are huge reasons, but I think combined they are pretty significant.

C is not actually a terrible option at this moment. Remember, although it feels like we told everybody important who we really are, most of the pugilists and the crowd don't have any idea - we are still the anonymous weird Man Tiger Pig for the most part. Our original plan of anonymous information gathering has not been abandoned. If we should decide that A & B are too risky or undesirable, etc., we actually have the option of bowing out. We haven't promised the Masters to win the tournament and do a grand reveal, and I don't think the beggar would really hate us if we did it for good reasons. The only problem with this is that it makes Guo Fu proceed to the next round, and I'm not 100% sure he'd be happy to just throw the fight without a great reason. I think this actually exposes Guo Fu to danger.

The thing is, though, even though this leaves A, I'm uneasy about it. It really does have the potential to fuck somebody up badly, either by going too hard on Guo Fu - which loses us the crowd, retrospectively after the big reveal would make us seem pretty ZJ-ish, and A could actually lose us the fight by disqualifying us. Jing's not an idiot but if he goes all out on a difficult opponent while his arm is broken and he is playing to win, accidents can happen. If we break his bones it's kind of churlish and ineffective to then say he broke our arm first. I think this would be the worst combination - we would lose all the crowd / pugilist goodwill, people like Xuzhan would be aghast, we would not have an opportunity to do a big reveal, we'd not accomplish any of our potential plans to its fruition.

So I think if we can rationalise A as having a good chance of not failing, then we can go with it - but for now, I will actually say C.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Tigranes said:
I'm disregarding B not because it's 'dishonourable' but because there are multiple reasons against it. (1) On the back of the stripping it will really lose us the crowd as well as the respect of the other pugilists, and once we declare as ZJ's apprentice - well, no dnager of people not believing us, but rather, that people will start to see as us deceptive and 'dishonourable' (according to their code) and, if not batshit crazy like ZJ, still not worth consorting with; (2) It will inform everybody else, including the WiB, that we now have a broken arm, and give them a good window of opportunity; (3) It doesn't really set us up very well to either win the crowd from Bal Jiutian or to impress the masters, if that is a concern.
We are not the target of WiB. What window do you speak of?

I don't like C because I still aim to win the tournament and I no longer believe in anonymity, however, I disllike A even more.

But really, why is winning in that way would lose us the crowd? Tricking your opponent into breaking the rules would be fitting for our persona. What would be 'dishonorable', according to the orthodox code? Honor lies in upholding the rules of and the principles behind the tournament, and we are yet to break one.
 

asxetos

Augur
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Greece
I dont think we will kill Guo Fu.
I believe that worst case is that we dont recover fully, Nameless knows all our moves, and we lose the tournament.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I dont think we will kill Guo Fu.
I believe that worst case is that we dont recover fully, Nameless knows all our moves, and we lose the tournament.
You'd think worst case scenario would be called that for a reason.

There is a good chance of maiming him. How is that 'better' than losing the tournament, and letting Nameless - who isn't even our enemy yet - know our moves?
 

Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
If we do maim him, it's not going to matter if our moves are revealed to Nameless for reasons that should be clear.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
So maiming him is worse. And if we are exceptionally unlucky/careless, killing him would be the worst that could happen.

This is my actual point.
 

asxetos

Augur
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Greece
You'd think worst case scenario would be called that for a reason.

There is a good chance of maiming him. How is that 'better' than losing the tournament, and letting Nameless - who isn't even our enemy yet - know our moves?

We dont even know how to maim.
We killed some nobody bandit, by mistake, true, but he was not even jianghu material. Guo Fu can take the beating for sure, without serious injury.

Also i voted A because i dont think that my worst case scenario will happen. We will recover, and even if Nameless knows all our moves, its still very improbable that she will counter them all, or outlast us if it comes down to endurance.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
If you're really worried about the techniques that we're using will hurt Guo Fu, Nevill, keep in mind that Qi Liuwu just taught us an expansion of the Xianglong Eighteen Palms, which is non-lethal, so we could also win using that move. If we use Yuanshi Hundun and our Mad Wolf Step simultaneously to gain a speed advantage, we could win the fight by using the palm strike before Fu can prepare himself.

I'm not saying that there isn't a risk of Fu getting hurt, but aside from the fact that the guy is built like an oak tree, it's important to in mind that we have a new technique in our arsenal that we can use. We could leap up in the air with our agility boosted thanks to our qinggong and neigong, then hit Fu with the Sky-Soaring Dragon before he can summon up his inner strength to defend himself from us. Considering that we'd have a ridiculous AGI 10, we could certainly do this.

We've been careful about revealing moves for a variety of reasons. Earlier, we were mostly hoping to avoid revealing techniques so that we could reveal them with surprise when we showed up to fight the sects later on and act with relatively little fear of counters. This has mostly abated due to information that treave later revealed. For the time after that, it was more keeping our skills hidden from later competitors. By this point in the tournament, the only foes we are likely to go up against from here on are Yifang (who knows all of our moves anyway) and Nameless (who we wouldn't be fighting if Esquilax had his way, as he wants to bow out for that time.) Given that our skills are inevitably going to leak out to the various sects as we go about challenging them (and we've used many of our techniques in one way or another by now regardless) I don't know why Esquilax is worried about keeping techniques hidden.

I didn't say that we should definitely bow out for the finals, but we should consider it (I would still be in favour of winning the tournament, depending on the circumstances). Nameless isn't part of Zhang's challenge, she's irrelevant here, and the Persians are obviously not going to join any orthodox sects if they're foreigners who've had dealings with the Wudu Cult, so there isn't much in it for us if we beat her aside from the Shaolin technique manual. But hey, perhaps beating her will gain her respect and allow us to learn from her too, so I'm open to going for the big win here too. And it'll give more weight to our challenge, of course.

Techniques will inevitably be revealed, but completing a few challenges with that initial advantage of the enemy having no knowledge of our techniques is huge. We could get our tougher competitors like Bai Jiutian out of the way first before moving on to the schools that we suspect are weaker (i.e. Taishan). I don't think that "Ah fuck it, they'll know everything about us eventually anyways" is a good argument here, because if we manage to defeat several schools with our strongest opponents before they start piecing things together, that's still really fucking good.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
asxetos said:
We dont even know how to maim.
Rest assured, asxetos, we know how to maim.
But what you can do is that you can hold back in a fight, though it handicaps you a lot more than it would an orthodox fighter because you'll have to be a lot more careful with your attacks, particularly if you're using your unique inner strength. You're learning from the Southern Maniac, so the downside is that if you fight even semi-seriously, your enemy has a chance of being maimed if not killed due to the nature of the attacks you use. It's a drawback you'll have to accept until you grow a lot more skilled.

Esquilax said:
If you're really worried about the techniques that we're using will hurt Guo Fu, Nevill, keep in mind that Qi Liuwu just taught us an expansion of the Xianglong Eighteen Palms, which is non-lethal, so we could also win using that move.
We could. But the choice states that we would throw everything at the guy. You do know what 'all out' means, right? And we are doing it without any regards for him, because we think him to have an impenetrable defence. There is no reason for us to pull our punches and use non-lethal techniques on a guy we consider unkillable.
 

XenomorphII

Prophet
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
1,198
A

Going with A even though I am a little worried (based on the wording of the choice) that we might maim/kill Guo Fu.
 

asxetos

Augur
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Greece
Thats if we use Zhang's fighting style, yes. I dont doubt that we we might resort to using Zhang's moves, but we have a few more to try that can result to an easy victory.
as Esquilax said, a combo of Step plus Eighteen Palms can be successful with our maxed agility.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
treave (yes, I'm doing this shit again), I realize there's a risk of accidentally injuring him, but Jing isn't in a deliberately killing mindset here, right?
 
Last edited:

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Tigranes said:
I'm disregarding B not because it's 'dishonourable' but because there are multiple reasons against it. (1) On the back of the stripping it will really lose us the crowd as well as the respect of the other pugilists, and once we declare as ZJ's apprentice - well, no dnager of people not believing us, but rather, that people will start to see as us deceptive and 'dishonourable' (according to their code) and, if not batshit crazy like ZJ, still not worth consorting with; (2) It will inform everybody else, including the WiB, that we now have a broken arm, and give them a good window of opportunity; (3) It doesn't really set us up very well to either win the crowd from Bal Jiutian or to impress the masters, if that is a concern.
We are not the target of WiB. What window do you speak of?

I don't like C because I still aim to win the tournament and I no longer believe in anonymity, however, I disllike A even more.

But really, why is winning in that way would lose us the crowd? Tricking your opponent into breaking the rules would be fitting for our persona. What would be 'dishonorable', according to the orthodox code? Honor lies in upholding the rules of and the principles behind the tournament, and we are yet to break one.

I'm ambivalent about all three choices. I think if we're prepared to consider seriously the prospect of harming someone or being disqualified in A, we should also consider that WiB are prepared to step up their act, Guo Fu has been attacked, we have been attacked, they are clearly planning something, etc. Our MTP identity does give us some cover, but I do think it's a factor. Not to mention it's hard to separate Guan Shide and MTP if you have a dangling arm.

As for B - I don't know. I don't think anybody would be able to accuse us of acting against the code or by the rules. But for the crowd the whole fun was seeing MTP flirt the rules and give some lighthearted fun and back that up with actual ability; so far nobody's walking away saying MTP would have lost for sure without his tricks, or that he's kind of pissing on everyone's face. I think it's a bit different here - people would say, he's fine with stripping others but as soon as push comes to shove and he gets a bit hurt he cries for the referee, etc. Now, do we want the crowd - not just nobodies but other pugilists - to think that about us? Maybe, maybe not. I can see both sides of it. I also wonder what our new Master buddies would think. Again, I can see both sides.

The more I think about it the more I think A is the most risky and dangerous of them all, but apart form that I don't have a firm conclusion. I'll flop to B>C for now.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
asxetos said:
Thats if we use Zhang's fighting style, yes. I dont doubt that we we might resort to using Zhang's moves, but we have a few more to try that can result to an easy victory.
You have won already, only nobody knows that. Why would you put Guo Fu at risk to prove it (to who?) is beyond me.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Obviously.

But do you need to be in a deliberately killing mindset to kill someone?
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Tigranes said:
People would say, he's fine with stripping others but as soon as push comes to shove and he gets a bit hurt he cries for the referee
Nie Miudan could cry for the referee all she wanted, it was a clear win for us.

How is breaking arms different from stepping out of the ring? Can anyone tell me?

treave said:
Do you really want me to answer that in the context of this choice? :lol:
Of course not. It was a rhetorical question.

Jing does not want to kill or maim his friend, but he is resorting to Zhang's techniques, among others, and does not restrain himself. This is risky, and not to ourselves.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Thats if we use Zhang's fighting style, yes. I dont doubt that we we might resort to using Zhang's moves, but we have a few more to try that can result to an easy victory.

Nevill does raise some good points here, though. Look at the description of A:

You claim to be alright. It’s time to take this seriously. This is a good chance to go all out in a fight for once, in a fight against an opponent that can bring you down with a single blow. Guo Fu can take anything you can throw at him, and you should be able to improve your fighting skills if you do so. You can beat him. Besides, Cao’er can treat you. Probably. (Sword +1, Unarmed +1)

We're going to be unleashing all we've got on Guo Fu. He might have very high END, but he's still human and Zhang's techniques are brutal. Considering that we'll be going all-out, we'll very likely be using the Shouwang Claws in A. Considering our erratic neigong and Zhang's techniques, you can see how going all out even on a very resilient guy like Fu is still dangerous.

As for B - I don't know. I don't think anybody would be able to accuse us of acting against the code or by the rules. But for the crowd the whole fun was seeing MTP flirt the rules and give some lighthearted fun and back that up with actual ability; so far nobody's walking away saying MTP would have lost for sure without his tricks, or that he's kind of pissing on everyone's face. I think it's a bit different here - people would say, he's fine with stripping others but as soon as push comes to shove and he gets a bit hurt he cries for the referee, etc. Now, do we want the crowd - not just nobodies but other pugilists - to think that about us? Maybe, maybe not. I can see both sides of it. I also wonder what our new Master buddies would think. Again, I can see both sides.

Yeah, this is definitely the worst part of B. There's nothing more detestable than a rule-breaker who hides behind that very same set of rules. Which is what B would entail. Nevill, the fight against Nie Mudan wasn't really a clear win because we took advantage of a loophole in the rules that wasn't mentioned. Now we'd be trying to hide behind the same set of rules that we were trying to take advantage of in the previous fight. I can see how it would be perceived badly.

But honestly, considering that we're in good stead with the Masters now, I'm not as concerned about what a bunch of disciples and the audience think of all this. We have friends in higher places than that.

But do you need to be in a deliberately killing mindset to kill someone?

Have you ever heard of manslaughter or second-degree murder? What kind of a question is this? Of course you can kill someone by accident.

This is definitely one of the harder choices we've had to face so far, no doubt about it.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Esquilax said:
Which is what B would entail. Nevill, the fight against Nie Mudan wasn't really a clear win because we took advantage of a loophole in the rules that wasn't mentioned. Now we'd be trying to hide behind the same set of rules that we were trying to take advantage of in the previous fight.
This establishes us as a clever fighter more than anything else. Weren't people certain that we would pull something off? To provoke a man into harming us, especially the one they consider to be ZJ's disciple, is surely a daring plan. We can play it off as if it was our intention all along, outsmarting the opponent and forcing him to break the rules to win.

I don't see a problem. As was said, Guo Fu should have been more careful than that. It is his loss. We made him go all out.

Esquilax said:
What kind of a question is this?
Rhetorical one.

Esquilax said:
This is definitely one of the harder choices we've had to face so far, no doubt about it.
Free skill increases! Shiny!! Hope nothing bad happens!!!
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom