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[LP CYOA] 傳

Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
2,951
Bros, I wonder if this here chap is really someone dishonored or a setup.
I think it's a pure setup. That's what the line
You find funny that he is using the name ‘Man Tiger Pig’ so seriously in connection with the tragic death of his father at Master Zhang's hands."
is about - he's lying.

Anyway, we could just stop at this point - call the committee out that they themselves asked us to come here and are now breaking the rules just to get at us. Make it look like we are being setup in front of the audience and then leave in a huff. We would derail their plans, got some prestige, removed Emei from our list, got a technique and some skills, oh and some nice cash from Qi. We don't really need to defeat Nameless for our task.
 

asxetos

Augur
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Greece
but the concequences of letting Nameless win the tournament might be bad, and treave told us we still have a chance to win. Thats why i suggest we postpone the fight, either by asking for time or by calling their bullshit as you suggest.
 

Jester

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
1,493
A2
and if anyone will say badly things about our tiger we can taunt him as person who not only is afraid of facing Mad one personally after spending his life preparing for that, he must wait with his formal accusation till apprentice is crippled by his last fight to find enough courage for it and that's dishonours his master more than falling against skilled martial artist. After tournament Jing will be happy to face him with eight sects as judges for it to be fair and square match, of course Jing can face him now if he believe that such duel wouldnt shame his dead master. And Jing being guest after certain people sent mad one invitation for this tournament can be played upon. We should make this guy look like pathetic coward in front of crowd.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Going for A2, ScubaV convinced me. If they kick us out, well, okay. We don't give a fuck.
In fact, this will make us seem all thag much "better" in the public's eye, MTP isn't as bad and impulsive as his Master, even if he is a bit of an asshole.
 
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ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
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Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,368
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
treave any option we have of completely confusing this guy without confirming/denying that we are who he says we are? Verbal uh, distraction, I guess?
 

Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
Let's put that 7 Cha and 5 Speech to use, we should be able to convince the crowd that fighting should be kept in the ring.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Hell, the crowd loves us and the Frathouse Bros (and Miecao) have our back, to a certain extent. I'm pretty sure we can play A2 off quite nicely.
 

TOME

Cuckmaster General
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
1,820
A2

We do not want to fight. If we start fighting with everyone who wants revenge on ZJ we will be knee deep in bodies. We are unorthodox so we don't have to defend our master's "honor".

Revealing our identity is the right move here because our enemies are already onto us while the crowd is in the dark. The crowd loves MTP. We should use that to our advantage and tell them straight up who we are. The tournament officials can't treat us like shit when we have whole crowd cheering for us.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
9,611
We are unorthodox so we don't have to defend our master's "honor".
Zhang has honor in the Orthodox world?

Anway, if the guy is really insistent, we can sell him some story about getting in line, Zhang killed our parents, almost killed our previous Master and forced us to study under him. Vengenace is ours, blah blah, get out of my face.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
2,951
We do not want to fight. If we start fighting with everyone who wants revenge on ZJ we will be knee deep in bodies. We are unorthodox so we don't have to defend our master's "honor".
Exactly. We can use something like that to justify our desidion not to fight. He wants revenge - point him in the direction of Maniac’s island. We got better things to do than fight Zhang's battles. If this guy has a problem with us, then we can deal with him.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Exactly. We can use something like that to justify our desidion not to fight. He wants revenge - point him in the direction of Maniac’s island. We got better things to do than fight Zhang's battles. If this guy has a problem with us, then we can deal with him.
Sooo... you are going to justify your reluctance to fight before the otrhodox crowd by saying that you don't give a fuck about the idea of 'honor' they subscribe to?

Okay.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
treave, if we accept a duel in A1/B1, is it lethal like it was with Rong Zhiyu?

Let's put that 7 Cha and 5 Speech to use, we should be able to convince the crowd that fighting should be kept in the ring.

I think that most of us can agree that A1 is bad: the Grand Taoist warned us earlier that the entire plot of these conspirators is to provoke us into doing something foolish, which is what accepting this fight as Zhang Jue's apprentice would entail. It's a bad idea. However, let me tentatively propose an alternative just to get some discussion going. I want to see what you guys think. The Brazilian Slaughter Jester asxetos Zero Credibility TOME ScubaV ERYFKRAD

The situation as presented now is this with A2: a vengeful son challenges the confessed disciple of the brutal savage that killed his father to a duel, to which the disciple refuses. But if we go with B1, we have the chance to turn the tables against our conspirators. By accepting the duel and denying our identity, we suddenly reframe the situation into Man Tiger Pig taking on a duel in order to defend himself from a pack of slanderous lies - we're an even bigger hero in the eyes of the public. "I'm Zhang's apprentice? How dare you?! Zhang killed my family! I demand satisfaction, good sir!" Their entire plan hinges on scapegoating Master Zhang, so if this Yu Gan character gets himself into a duel with someone who denies that he's Zhang's apprentice in the first place, that puts the committee into extremely deep shit, because they've suddenly been caught looking the other way while a fight went on during the tournament.

Even if we end up maiming Yu Gan - he threw down the gauntlet against a man he had no proof against, we were slandered, and we ended up beating him bloody in retribution for the insult. The best part is, since we denied being Zhang's apprentice in the first place, the blame will fall squarely on the committee that allowed the fight to happen, and on Yu Gan, who initiated the fight:

There will be no fighting outside the tournament allowed in the city for the duration of the competition, as decreed by the Eight Major Sects. This is to prevent butthurt losers from getting their sect buddies and starting a street fight, which has happened before to their eternal shame. The Eight police this rule rather strictly, and any orthodox member caught in a fight will be severely punished, if not expelled.

Now, I understand that people don't want to stop our progress, but we have a great opportunity to really fuck up the WiB's plans here. Cao'er is with Emei and we'll be picking her up in three months from there, so we can simply fight Yifang and Yiling once we arrive there to pick her up again. Nie Mudan was a pushover, and we already have the tools to defeat Guo Fu again with our improved skills.

As for how we'll win this fight, not having to worry about Zhang being a scapegoat means that we will have no fear of holding back. In addition to that, we've already become somewhat familiar with the Huashan style thanks to Nie Mudan and Rong Zhiyu before that. And the best part is, even if we lose, we still win. We're the brave fighter who takes on anyone, anytime, anywhere, even completely broken and bloody. And since we just denied being Zhang's apprentice right now, what the fuck are these guys going to do? Kill us while everyone's watching? B1 turns the tables on our enemies completely and it'll put them on the defensive.

The duel in A1 is what I think of as lose/lose. If we win the duel, we play into the committee's hands, so we lose there. But if we lose the duel, we look like a wimp because the Southern Maniac's disciple is supposed to be better than that. B1 however, is win/win. In this set of circumstances, they can't justify hurting us badly, we have the moral high ground, and we make the committee and Yu Gan look like the villains here. It will alter people's perceptions completely.
 
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Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Basically, it is a trade-off between throwing an even bigger monkey wrench into their plans and the possibility of winning the tournament, right?

Well, I got everything I wanted from the contest anyway. This might be worthwhile.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
2,951
Sooo... you are going to justify your reluctance to fight before the otrhodox crowd by saying that you don't give a fuck about the idea of 'honor' they subscribe to?
No, I'm for justifying the decision not to fight by the simple reason that if we start fighting over something the Maniac did we would never stop fighting. Seriously, the guy has killed hundreds of people - are we next going to take challenges of every single vengeful family member or friend of them as well? No, because that would be just fucking insane. If this guy has a problem with Zhang, we can tell him exactly where to find him and good luck to him. Otherwise he can piss off.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Joined
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Messages
28,368
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Having to deny being Zhang's apprentice still bugs me, but well, maybe that's a dance for another day.
It does seem like a nice upset...
Might as well think this over.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Sooo... you are going to justify your reluctance to fight before the otrhodox crowd by saying that you don't give a fuck about the idea of 'honor' they subscribe to?
No, I'm for justifying the decision not to fight for the simple reason that if we start fighting over something the Maniac did we would never stop fighting. Seriously, the guy has killed hundreds of people - are we next going to take challenges of every single vengeful family member or friend of them as well? No, because that would be just fucking insane. If this guy has a problem with Zhang, we can tell him exactly where to find him and good luck to him. Otherwise he can piss off.
Well, that is exactly what they expect of you, to answer for the sins of your Master. Their honor code is fucked up is that way. If it is good enough to convince the officials, it is good enough for the crowd.

Look, I understand what you are saying. You are unorthodox, you are not obliged to fight this guy. But they view it differently. The man is orthodox, and he is obliged to fight you. It comes down to which side the people can relate to more. I'm sure you see where this is heading.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
I agree with Nevill. We're in their house, so we have to play by their rules. We may have skirted the rules, but we've never broken their rules. However, the beauty of B1 allows us to use their rules against them.

Having to deny being Zhang's apprentice still bugs me, but well, maybe that's a dance for another day.
It does seem like a nice upset...

Divorce the ego from this. I know it's hard - you think "oh fuck, I've beaten these guys, fuck that, I want the credit!" but we have plenty of schools ahead of us, and an incredible opportunity to stymie the WiBs plans. As I've said before, we need to make a stop at Emei anyways, and with our knowledge of their technique, the nuns will be easy prey. By accepting Yu Gan's challenge while denying our true identity, we win the crowd over even more, while at the same time painting both Yu Gan and the committee as the villains here for allowing this fight to happen. We come off looking golden, because publicly, we're just the good guy trying to defend ourselves from these filthy accusations that are being thrown around.

Basically, it is a trade-off between throwing an even bigger wrench in their plans and the possibility of winning the tournament, right?

Well, I got everything I wanted from the contest anyway. This might be worthwhile.

Basically. Guys, look at all of our success in this tournament: we've improved our combat skills, our Xianglong Eighteen Palms, gained experience against Emei, Huashan and Shaolin techniques (Fu's neigong is Shaolin), and made some great friends among the Masters, Murong Yandi and Guo Fu. We have nothing more to prove here. At this point, we must turn our attention on the conspiracy threatening the pugilistic world, and B1 will let us do that beautifully.

No, I'm for justifying the decision not to fight by the simple reason that if we start fighting over something the Maniac did we would never stop fighting. Seriously, the guy has killed hundreds of people - are we next going to take challenges of every single vengeful family member or friend of them as well? No, because that would be just fucking insane. If this guy has a problem with Zhang, we can tell him exactly where to find him and good luck to him. Otherwise he can piss off.

That's fair, but how will the crowd see that? We're Zhang's apprentice, but we don't wanna fight? That's lame. It doesn't take advantage of the situation at all.

The dilemma here is this - we need publicity to claim credit, but we're in a situation where revealing ourselves would be bad. My alternative here is to take the course of action that the conspirators would be least likely to see coming (sort of like what we did as Ean in Chapter 1 of EPIC when we faced Shulgi). We must act in the way that they haven't anticipated. These are the scenarios that they're most prepared for:
  1. We reveal our true identity, and take the bait, accepting the challenge. (A1)
  2. We deny the accusation and refuse to fight. (B2)
A2 is less likely to be what they expect, but we must understand that the conspirators are extremely desperate to reveal us at this point. A2 doesn't play into their hands completely, of course, but it doesn't turn the situation in our favour either. B1 does. The last thing that they'd expect here is for us to remain in-character and make them look like the villains in all of this. It's all well and good to challenge a man to a duel when you have just cause to do so, but if we turn the tables by framing the situation as the orthodox sects being jealous of our skill and slandering us, the crowd will be in a frenzy. We look like the charming, roguish hero, and they look like the sore losers who can't handle us kicking their asses with style.

And then we get them in deep trouble - Yu Gan for starting the challenge, and the Kunlun committee member for letting it all happen publicly. We give up our public claim for our victories in return for a gigantic "FUCK YOU!" to the plans of these conspirators.
 
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TOME

Cuckmaster General
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
1,820
But what if someone (Yifang) were to slip out we are lying when we say we aren't ZJ's disciple? Going B now will make sure that we cannot claim the fame to our name and thus we will have to fight more battles when we go challenging the sects. And the masters now who we are. They'll now we maimed/killed someone and made him lose honor in front of whole crowd even though he was in the right. That will make us look more like ZJ in their eyes and I would like to avoid that at all costs.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Well I was reading and thinking oh fucking hell, another shitty bandwagon with no rhyme or reason. At least now we have some alternatives. It's like eople read the update, vote whatever sounds cool and then call it a night. Let me be brief:

(0) A1 is out for the simple reason that that is what the setup is designed to force. They want us to fight, and they want us to admit ZJ, because both of those impair our future ability to move, maneuvre, fight, act. We don't want to give them BOTH.

(1) There is no guarantee that MTP will retain the crowd's support after A2. Zhang Jue is infamous everywhere, and we haven't seen anyone say "look he's so badass", more like "that dude is like a WMD in the body of a man". It will certainly make us more spectacular and crowd-drawing, but that doesn't mean the crowd will be on our side. A2 may work and really impress some, but it will certainly divide the crowd. Could work, but not the best.

(2) B1 is indeed very interesting; the downside is that if they went so far to set up a fight with Jing, then surely they have prepared for the eventuality of a fight. Do they really think that this guy can beat even a Jing with a broken arm? Surely not. THey know he would lose in a fair fight. So, I'm 100% sure this won't be a fair fight. Maybe they will try and incite the crowd to a full riot. Maybe they will try and sabotage Jing during the fight in some dishonourable way. Maybe they will try and use the fight to provoke Jing, making HIM injure the other man and look like a savage in the crowd's eyes. I think B1 is a really good plan but we will need to be very careful to fight cleanly and not get anybody hurt. (The worst thing would be if Bal Jiutian turns up an stops the fight making us look like an arse and steal the glory again.)

(3) B2 is likely to end up as a straight off denial and it will be safe but not exactly convincing. If we want to convince people we are not the apprentice B1 is the way to go, not B2. I think it's a suboptimal choice.

So, B1 for now, but we better fight very carefully. Jing should insist that the fight take place under the same rules as the tournament rules with officials overseeing proceedings, and that the other man should be equipped with the same unsharpened sword - or, at least, some kind of setup that makes outright rioting or really dirty / vicious stuff more difficult. WE can fight him but we will do it on our terms.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
TOME said:
But what if someone (Yifang) were to slip out we are lying when we say we aren't ZJ's disciple?
What proof does she have? Basically, how is Yifang claiming us to be ZJ's disciple different from Yu Gan?

TOME said:
They'll now we maimed/killed someone and made him lose honor in front of whole crowd even though he was in the right.
He was in the right to demand a fight, and a fight he got. Nothing dishonorable in him losing it, and nothing wrong with us killing him either if he issued us a challenge to the duel to the death. Or maiming him, if death is too harsh a penalty for his accusations.
 
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ScubaV

Prophet
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
1,022
Very intriguing plan Esquilax. I may indeed flop. I'll have to think about this. It would be a shame to miss out on getting credit for beating those disciples (and likely fighting this guy will cost us a chance at winning the tournament), but the chance to fuck over these conspirators is quite tempting.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
You're right ScubaV, B1 would result in missing out on the finals and gaining credit. I have thought things over a bit more and I believe that letting this guy kick our injured ass might be the right call here.

But what if someone (Yifang) were to slip out we are lying when we say we aren't ZJ's disciple? Going B now will make sure that we cannot claim the fame to our name and thus we will have to fight more battles when we go challenging the sects. And the masters now who we are. They'll now we maimed/killed someone and made him lose honor in front of whole crowd even though he was in the right. That will make us look more like ZJ in their eyes and I would like to avoid that at all costs.

About your point regarding not being able to claim our victories. We have a big list of targets, I think this about covers it:

Taishan: Taishan’s Seven Heroic Youths
Huashan: The Twin Flowers of Huashan, Bai Jiutian
Kunlun: Su Liaojing
Wudang: Wu Jin, Wu Yin and Wu Tong
Shaolin: Xuzhan, Xuzheng, Xumao
Qingcheng: Song Lingshu
Emei: Yifang and Yiling
Beggars: Currently Unknown
Other/Miscellaneous: Guo Fu (somebody will pick him up soon)

I think that this puts it all into perspective. Out of this list, we have currently beaten only four fighters. Really, if sacrificing the credit we've gained for a mere four fighters means that we can completely stymie the WiBs plans by turning this little ruse against them, it is definitely worth it. We've beaten the Emei nuns already, but we would have to go to Emei regardless to pick up Cao'er a few months from now. As for Nie Mudan, she was a pushover that is the least of our worries when it comes to the Huashan. Guo Fu is more problematic, but we would be facing him next time with greater skill on our side.

I alluded to to maiming/killing this challenger, but the reason that I called the fight in B1 a win/win is because the man challenging us and the committee will look like villains regardless of whether we win or lose. They would be fools to attempt to kill us in a public venue where we have denied their accusations. In fact, the prudent thing might be to intentionally lose to Yu Gan - even if he wins, he will have beaten an injured man whom he has no proof against. Of course, we would be in no condition to fight tomorrow's finals, but this would really disgrace the committee. Yu Gan is probably a pawn in all of this, but his sect would have to kick him out for starting a fight against us under these conditions.

A nice side bonus to B1 is that we'd get more experience against the Huashan style. Though of course that's not the reason to vote for it.
 
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Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
And the masters now who we are. They'll now we maimed/killed someone and made him lose honor in front of whole crowd even though he was in the right. That will make us look more like ZJ in their eyes and I would like to avoid that at all costs.
This is the part I'm least worried about: the Masters know we're Zee Jay's disciple so they know to expect some brutality from us. And even despite our Master's brutality they still somewhat like him, and they will definitely understand what we're doing in B1, which is fucking with the WiBs' plans rather extensively. I'm pretty sure they'll pounce on the opportunity B1 will present them with. It's not a bad plan at all.

However, I still prefer A2 for the simple reasons: it's a simple plan and less likely to go awry, "I'm Zhang's disciple, yeah. And?"
It plays to the popularity we gathered with the spectators, they fucking love us, and the 7 CHA 5 Speech we have.
We're an unorthodox apprentice of the most unorthodox fighter in China, we don't owe this guy shit, did he look at the list of Zhang's victims? We're not cleaning up the bastard's messes.
If we decline the match, Yu Gan will do one of two things: start spitting insults at our back (do we really care?) or charge us anyway, hoping to provoke us (potentially lethal, depending on how tired we are and how good he is) which will just put him in a bad position.
Lastly, the Frathouse Bros (and Miecao) will be able to vouch/stand up for us if they are so inclined, and protest the blatant disrespect to the rules an' shit. They are the most venerable presences here and are somewhat on our side, let's put our relationship to good use.
 
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