[LP CYOA] 傳

[Kipeci]

For everyone thinking that the pugilists will cut and run, you remember that story about Zhang Jue, right? The one in which he challenged some folks to a duel and they realized that he was striking to kill?

Instead of running off, the rest of the school piled onto him. While he was able to kill everyone, there's no way we have the endurance for this.

We'll probably end up captured and in deep shit, since even the most optimistic here are saying we can only take around thirty of the bottom of the barrel here.

 

[Baltika9]

I have thought about that, but Master Zhang's situation was different, what he did was unprecedented or at least unheard of for a long time. No one expected him to pull that stunt off, taking on over a hundred challengers. But now, as his apprentice, it is expected of us to be trained similarly. We threw the sectarians off a little bit with our Loki demeanor, right now they don't know what to make of us yet but the fear is still there:

“It’s all a lie! He’s failed to take their leader’s head and now he seeks to scare us off doing the same so that he will not lose face!” shouts one of the pugilists. “Don’t fall for Man Tiger Pig’s lies! He’s only backpedalling now because he put his own reputation at stake!” A chorus of agreement echoes amongst the crowd, such is your reputation for trickery that they are eager to believe you are not telling the truth.

“If you do not trust me, I can show you the village, and their people. I can arrange for an audience with their leader, too,” you offer.

“He’s just going to lead us into a trap!”

“Yeah, don’t trust him! I say we go ahead and show him the power of the orthodox sects, doing what he has failed to do!” As one the crowd surges forward, but when you fail to budge even an inch in the face of their advance, their steps falter. You grin.

Once we show that, yeah, Master Zhang taught us his ways, the weaker ones will definitely start backing off and then the stronger ones. We don't need inhuman END to go on for hours, when we can kill them lighting-fast with our bullshit 10AGI score and neiggong.

And if we do get in deep shit, the Minamoto won't allow us to die easily after saving their clan.

 

[Kipeci]

So your back-up plan is to have C happen in which case they're extra marked for future destruction as I think is said in the text for B.

 

[Baltika9]

But then again, I don't think B will fail for the aforementioned reasons, though we'll probably get injured for a while, but that gives us a chance to practice Master Yao's manual. And even then, I still preffer C over D because it gives the Minamoto a fighting chance.
And we also have a drunken Yu fighting on our side, we'll see if his Inner Beast is all it's cracked up to be. And if we die, it's all Azira's fault anyway.

And I've yet to see an actual argument for D except "lol, kill pirates" and "B is horrible!"

 

[Nevill]

So your back-up plan is to have C happen in which case they're extra marked for future destruction as I think is said in the text for B.

I don't think there is a backup plan. B is obviously a high-risk/high-reward option. If it fails, we die - that's what it states.

It's just based on what we know, we think it will succeed, or that at least there will be another vote before if fails utterly. The rest of the outcomes here are really shitty, so I'd rather not touch them if I think we have a chance to do things the right way.

Edit: treave, not that it matters much, but what does an enervation potion actually do?

 

[Baltika9]

And let's not forget the archers observing this:

“I will say this – if you go forth, you will die, and I will not even have to move a finger.” It is not a lie. The Minamoto had already set archers in position, having spotted the pugilists’ approach from far away. They would have been met by a hail of arrows had they proceeded with their original plan of setting fire to the ships. Thankfully the archers seem to be disciplined enough to refrain from a volley until you have exhausted your options – but if you fail to turn them away here, you have no doubt they will fire.

I'm pretty sure that if we take Yorimitsu's head, we'll be resembling a pincushion rather quickly.

But between the Yuchang Sword, our bullshit AGI and STR scores, 6 Unarmed and 5 Sword and the erratic neiggong, we have a pretty solid chance of making it through this, albeit with cuts and bruises. The two killers here will be LCK (which we can't really account for, may happen or may not) and Jing's mindset. treave, is he going into B with "kill or be killed" mindset or is he going to fuck around like he did with Guo Fu, right before he broke his arm?

 

[Kipeci]

But then again, I don't think B will fail for the aforementioned reasons, though we'll probably get injured for a while, but that gives us a chance to practice Master Yao's manual.

Naturally, they probably don't wish to be the first to fight us, which is why the crowd rushing us fought us. Especially considering the factors brought up about how the fight was unneeded. If we declare ourselves to be on the opposing side in this way, then it is their obligation to fight us. You are also not considering the leader of the Zhou clan. As the master of a highly influential martial arts establishment, he's likely to be no joke... while not on the level of the great masters of the most important orthodox schools, recall that they could defeat us without us being able to land so much as a hit in despite our agility. While we're strong, we're inexperienced and have few techniques. He's very likely to be at least on our level if not above, and if we learned anything from the martial arts tournament, those sorts of fights take a lot out of us.

And even then, I still preffer C over D because it gives the Minamoto a fighting chance.

The "If the pirates kill even a single pugilist, things will never be salvaged." in your favored choice would seem to fly against this. The schools involved will be obligated to send their stronger students to save face, take vengeance and slaughter pirate scum, and that'd be considerably less surviveable for the pirates. How conciliatory do you think they will be when they've lost their friends and pupils?

And we also have a drunken Yu fighting on our side, we'll see if his Inner Beast is all it's cracked up to be.

This meme needs to be strangled to death in its sleep.

And I've yet to see an actual argument for D except "lol, kill pirates" and "B is horrible!"

Then you haven't been paying attention, though I'll note that "lol, kill pirates" was exactly enough of a reason for you to ignore our interests to vote for joining the anti-pirate alliance. Interestingly, you were arguing that we should go because killing pirates would be a sure way to boost our fame and reputation. D is the only option present in which we don't fight with the pirates against the pugilists-- at least, the only one which has a chance at winning. (I'd like A to get away from this timesuck straight away, but unfortunately the 'fuck it' or 'avoid fighting' option never wins even when it's in our best interests.) The pirate criminals who steal from the peasants and leave them to starve to death are the ones who are punished in this scenario, not the pugilists whose only crimes are some degree of self-righteousness for pretty much all of them or loyalty to a dead asshole for the Songfeng, all of whom came here for much the same reasons as you did. The women and children will be spared as we will be avoiding entrenched fighting by going for the root of the problem straight away.

That B is a horrible choice helps, but D is fairly decent on its own merits.

 

[Baltika9]

Interestingly, you were arguing that we should go because killing pirates would be a sure way to boost our fame and reputation. D is the only option present in which we don't fight with the pirates against the pugilists-- at least, the only one which has a chance at winning.

That was before the complete truth was revealed Like many here, I was expecting this to be a hunt for pirate-shaped blobs of XP and cash. Instead, we got this sticky moral scenario. I'm seriously contemplating not taking another side-quest in a treave LP ever again.

That B is a horrible choice helps, but D is fairly decent on its own merits.

What are you hoping to get out of D? What are the benefits you expect to receive?

As Nevill said, Yorimitsu came out himself to voluntarily offer his head to the pugilists and they refused:

“The pirates have broken the law, and caused suffering,” he replies. “That is the truth. For these foreigners to come to our land and pillage our property is inexcusable, no matter what reasons they may have. This is not their country.”

“Down with the foreign devils!” shouts a Songfeng disciple that you mark and decide will go down first when the fighting starts.

“Will matters be solved with just my life alone?” To your surprise, Yorimitsu appears, stepping out of the darkness in full battle regalia. His uncle does not seem to be anywhere nearby, but you have no doubt that the man is watching and ready to strike. Unexpected things are happening faster than you can respond; this is not what you had in mind. “I am Yorimitsu of the Minamoto, leader of my people on this island. The responsibility is mine to bear. If I fall here, will you judge justice served?”

“Why would that be, young man?” snorts Master Gong. “We have no guarantee your people will not continue to pirate. Who would trust the word of a pirate?”

“Not even if I lay down my life to bind an oath?”

“Your oaths have no value to us, Wo,” says Zhou Dingqiu. “This problem must be solved, and solved decisively. When the grass is cut the roots must be plucked. The Imperial Court has expressed their desire to clean up the coast and free the people from the plague of piracy. Though they are not able or willing to do it directly, as loyal subjects the orthodox sects are more than willing to do it on the Emperor’s behalf. I am afraid this can only end in one way.”

“Is that so?” murmurs Yorimitsu, his hand laid on his sword. The crowd tenses. You rather suspect arrows will begin flying at any moment.

D means everybody on this island who puts up a fight dies. Miss Zhou's and Yu's Kirin Ichiban-inspired anarchistic speech (I think we can use him as our Marx to stirr up a communist revolution ) interference pretty much erased any possibility of reconciliation between the two sides:

“If you fight now, your daughter will be caught up in the fighting,” you point out.

“You-“ grimaces Zhou Dinqiu, his expression full of anger. “Are you threatening me?”

“Of course not! I would not dare, Master Zhou,” you say. “I am merely pointing out something to watch out for.”

“A daughter that would rebel against her father to such an extent is no daughter of mine,” he scowls, though you can tell he does not mean his words. Still, he seems resolved to go on the attack. “For that matter, Xu Jing, why are you siding with these Wo? Are you betraying your own country?”

“I am not siding with them,” you reply, “merely trying to prevent needless loss of life. Would you serve your country better by continuing to live, or by bleeding out here by the sea? What can you accomplish if you drive these people to extinction? Will there be no more raids? Of course not. There will always be pirates.”

“That is right,” Xiahou Yu speaks out, having found his courage from somewhere – you stare at him as you catch a whiff of just where he had found his courage. Hopefully he had not partook of too much courage. “Even if you stamp out these pirates, more will come. Can you hire boats every month, every year, trying to keep them under control? Piracy is a symptom of the greater disease that ails our empire, not a cause. It is not the pirates we must strive against! It is those who have strayed from the Will of Heaven!” Ah, yes. He definitely took too much. You resist the urge to bury your head in the sand. Even though you agree with him, this is not the time and place to speak out against the government.

“Treason! He speaks treason!” screams the pugilists.

“They have betrayed us to the foreign devils! Gut them all!”

You are also not considering the leader of the Zhou clan. As the master of a highly influential martial arts establishment, he's likely to be no joke...

We have his daughter, though. Even with his public denunciation, he still cares for her:

“A daughter that would rebel against her father to such an extent is no daughter of mine,” he scowls, though you can tell he does not mean his words. Still, he seems resolved to go on the attack.

We can use that emotion against him. Also, Jing is a professional shit-talker, so there's a nice bonus for that.

Edit: also, this

And let's not forget the archers observing this:

“I will say this – if you go forth, you will die, and I will not even have to move a finger.” It is not a lie. The Minamoto had already set archers in position, having spotted the pugilists’ approach from far away. They would have been met by a hail of arrows had they proceeded with their original plan of setting fire to the ships. Thankfully the archers seem to be disciplined enough to refrain from a volley until you have exhausted your options – but if you fail to turn them away here, you have no doubt they will fire.

I'm pretty sure that if we take Yorimitsu's head, we'll be resembling a pincushion rather quickly.

I don't fancy going up against one hundred enraged archers.

 

[Nevill]

D is the only option present in which we don't fight with the pirates against the pugilists.

No, that option is A. D is a derpy 'maybe the pugilists are forgiving types and will have us back, if we ask them really nicely'.

They aren't.

 

[Kipeci]

That was before the complete truth was revealed Like many here, I was expecting this to be a hunt for pirate-shaped blobs of XP and cash. Instead, we got this sticky moral scenario. I'm seriously contemplating not taking another side-quest in a treave LP ever again.

What did you think, that they just decided to become pirates for the lulz? It's a job people take out of desperation, we were likely to hear some sort of sob story about how their was no other way for them to survive regardless of who was set up as a pirate here. They've got a lot of time to devise convincing justifications for themselves as to how this lawless path was the only one available. It doesn't change the fact that they're still pirates.

What are you hoping to get out of D? What are the benefits you expect to receive?

The actual pirates get their just desserts for condemning too many of our nation's coastal poor to starve and die while the innocent are left unharmed, we get paid in pirate treasure so that none of you can talk us into another time-wasting side mission with the justification of getting some pocket cash, and we can actually still work with pugilists in the future instead of being attacked on sight for being a traitor. Keep in mind the scene that happened when we tried to join the alliance-- even while we've behaved relatively well for much of the time, we were nearly attacked then and their despite offering our assistance. If we've shown that no one can trust us for anything at all, to betray our allies for a bunch of goddamned pirates, no one really has any reason at all to trust us in the future. You can say 'well, fuck our rep!' and normally I don't keep it too much in mind, but this will make our lives much harder while offering very little in return. When we go from 'lovable scoundrel apprentice to the southern maniac' to 'traitor who sold out our nation to pirates', that's a step that I want to be compensated heavily for in a way that's just not provided here. Do you know how much harder this will make it to meet up with our bros in the orthodox sects, how an association with us would taint pretty much anyone in contact with us?

As Nevill said, Yorimitsu came out himself to voluntarily offer his head to the pugilists and they refused:
D means everybody on this island who puts up a fight dies. Miss Zhou's and Yu's Kirin Ichiban-inspired anarchistic speech (I think we can use him as our Marx to stirr up a communist revolution ) interference pretty much erased any possibility of reconciliation between the two sides:

The guys are pirates who've killed citizens of our nation before, whether directly in incidents like treave mentioned or indirectly through causing starvation and loss to illness. I don't see a problem if they all die. The women and children are the innocents who need some lenience, and that's what D provides instead of a temporary blanket amnesty for the whole bunch.

We have his daughter, though. Even with his public denunciation, he still cares for her:
We can use that emotion against him. Also, Jing is a professional shit-talker, so there's a nice bonus for that.

So, what are you aiming to do? Telling him that you'll kill her if he tries to fight you? How exactly do you plan on keeping her within easy killing reach throughout a fight with possibly a mass of one hundred guys so that you can tell him to keep away or you'll take out her heart?

No, that option is A. D is a derpy 'maybe the pugilists are forgiving types and will have us back, if we ask them really nicely'.

They aren't.

You should try using your reading comprehension skills for the very next thing I said.
Both A and D don't have us fight with the pirates against the pugilists, but A doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning while D has a meager number of votes behind it. Hence, I'm for D, though I'm sure that the B brigade will still overwhelm D voters anyway.

 

[Nevill]

You should try using your reading comprehension skills for the very next thing I said.

I'm pretty sure I understood what you wrote. Now try to understand what I did.
A is the only option that is decent out of the two. Cut our losses and run away. If it doesn't have a chance, well, too bad.
D, on the other hand, does not have a single thing going for it.

The women and children are the innocents who need some lenience, and that's what D provides instead of a temporary blanket amnesty for the whole bunch.

Right.
So, what happens to them when the pugilists win?
What happens to us when the pugilists win?

 

[Kipeci]

So you think they'll be fighting us if we remove the pirate leader's head? I mean, yes, we've shown ourselves to be a bit of an asshole here, but delivering them the pirate leader's head and shattering the morale of the pirates is definitely better than 'asking nicely' to join them again.

 

[Nevill]

So you think they'll be fighting us if we remove the pirate leader's head?

No. They'll chase us away with shame.

We are at -35 reputation with the manor currently. We can't backpedal out of what we, or Yu, have said, either. We have already damaged Zhou's reputation by sneaking out his daughter to the pirates.
There is no reconciling between us. We kill one side, down to the last kid, and are despised by the other. There is virtually not a single benefit to this.

But hey, we get to live. Maybe that would be enough for you.

 

[Kipeci]

Are you reading -35 as -85? Sure, they're not happy with us, but they're not going to attack us if we show that, while foolish enough to hope for peace, we are still lined up on the right side of the conflict now that it's come to violence being inevitable. We've worked out way out of -35 rep before, we can do it again even if we're not able to end up entirely squeaky clean. I'm not sure how you're getting that D will result in everyone on the pirate's side being slaughtered, this option is to specifically prevent a massacre from being inflicted on the innocents here. If this isn't nipped as painlessly as possible right now, it's going to be bloodier for everyone later.

 

[Baltika9]

What did you think, that they just decided to become pirates for the lulz? It's a job people take out of desperation, we were likely to hear some sort of sob story about how their was no other way for them to survive regardless of who was set up as a pirate here. They've got a lot of time to devise convincing justifications for themselves as to how this lawless path was the only one available. It doesn't change the fact that they're still pirates.

People become criminals for different reasons, but the thing that sets the Minamoto apart is that they do their best to limit the damage they deal. It was already stated that they are far, far less damaging to society than regular pirates and bandits and the Minamoto also curb their activities in the region. All they really want to do is survive and get out of the pit their exile has thrown them in. Also, Yorimitsu is a total bro, I want to have him on our list of contacts in the future and I want him and his men to serve Shun. Bottom line.

The actual pirates get their just desserts for condemning too many of our nation's coastal poor to starve and die while the innocent are left unharmed, we get paid in pirate treasure so that none of you can talk us into another time-wasting side mission with the justification of getting some pocket cash, and we can actually still work with pugilists in the future instead of being attacked on sight for being a traitor. Keep in mind the scene that happened when we tried to join the alliance-- even while we've behaved relatively well for much of the time, we were nearly attacked then and their despite offering our assistance. If we've shown that no one can trust us for anything at all, to betray our allies for a bunch of goddamned pirates, no one really has any reason at all to trust us in the future. You can say 'well, fuck our rep!' and normally I don't keep it too much in mind, but this will make our lives much harder while offering very little in return. When we go from 'lovable scoundrel apprentice to the southern maniac' to 'traitor who sold out our nation to pirates', that's a step that I want to be compensated heavily for in a way that's just not provided here. Do you know how much harder this will make it to meet up with our bros in the orthodox sects, how an association with us would taint pretty much anyone in contact with us?

-We still get paid by the Minamoto and will definitely get a chance to ask Zatoichi for some stealth tutoring, being a ghost in forests is pretty damn useful. No telling what other ninja tricks he knows.
-The rep this brings will open doors into a lot of dissident and rebellious factions in the Empire, as well as give us the benefit of the doubt when dealing with foreigners that have heard of us (maybe this dude isn't a racist like all the others in Chine?)
-The only bro our age in the orthodox sects is Guo Fu and I sincerely doubt he will give two flying fucks about us standing up for political exiles, the guy is too much of a sweetheart to believe in racism and nationalism. The Frathouse's relationship with us is a closely guarder secret. If they can forgive Zhang his massacres (I wonder, has our Master ever pulled something like this?) they can forgive us standing up for political exiles. Miecao is the last person to judge us standing up for bandits.
-We don't need to get in with the orthodox sects, we already have people and contacts on that side of the fence.

The guys are pirates who've killed citizens of our nation before, whether directly in incidents like treave mentioned or indirectly through causing starvation and loss to illness. I don't see a problem if they all die. The women and children are the innocents who need some lenience, and that's what D provides instead of a temporary blanket amnesty for the whole bunch.

I think these guys are way too impassioned for that, backpedaling now will be seen as weakness from us, Xu Jing being too afraid to face them so he turns on his new allies. Shamefur unorthod cowardu!

And killing Yorimitsu in full sight of his archers is pretty dumb, I think we have a better chance against a hundred swordsmen than a hundred bowmen.

 

[Nevill]

*sigh*. No. They won't attack us in D. I never said that they would.

We won't stick around to prove anything to them. Us being on the right winning side does not change anything we have said or done. We are still traitors (thanks, Yu) who tried to conspire with the pirates behind their backs (thanks, Zixia). They may overlook it just this once, but being able to walk away is all you are going to get out of it.

As for the civilians, I have already asked you what would happen with the rest of them after the pugilists win. Still waiting for that answer.

If they lose, they are dead. Either immediately, or after a month. So they will resist. What happens to them then? How will you save them, even if you intervene? The choice states that you will try to convince the pugilists. How convincing were your efforts in the current update?

 

[Nevill]

The actual pirates get their just desserts for condemning too many of our nation's coastal poor to starve and die while the innocent are left unharmed

No, the innocents die with them.

we get paid in pirate treasure so that none of you can talk us into another time-wasting side mission with the justification of getting some pocket cash

No, we get chased away. We aren't exactly behaving well for them to consider us a part of their group and share rewards.
We might try to intimidate them into paying us, though, but if we need money that badly, why not ask the pirates for it directly instead of relying on Zhou's whims?

and we can actually still work with pugilists in the future instead of being attacked on sight for being a traitor.

We still can do so in B, if the pirates get an official pardon from the Empire. That will lift the accusations of treason from us, and we wanted to do so back when we chose A2.

 

[Jester]

You can say 'well, fuck our rep!' and normally I don't keep it too much in mind, but this will make our lives much harder while offering very little in return. When we go from 'lovable scoundrel apprentice to the southern maniac' to 'traitor who sold out our nation to pirates', that's a step that I want to be compensated heavily for in a way that's just not provided here. Do you know how much harder this will make it to meet up with our bros in the orthodox sects, how an association with us would taint pretty much anyone in contact with us?

Did you hear a story of Tiger Devil know as Jing? Born from girl raped by mad demon of south... lived sustained by blood and souls of innocent he killed. In legend it is said he torn to shreds over hundred martial artist. He was born as monster, lived and died as such.

Kinda always wanted to play such story. I played only one game which did it good. Interesting story is always most important.

As Nevill said, Yorimitsu came out himself to voluntarily offer his head to the pugilists and they refused:
D means everybody on this island who puts up a fight dies. Miss Zhou's and Yu's Kirin Ichiban-inspired anarchistic speech (I think we can use him as our Marx to stirr up a communist revolution ) interference pretty much erased any possibility of reconciliation between the two sides:

The guys are pirates who've killed citizens of our nation before, whether directly in incidents like treave mentioned or indirectly through causing starvation and loss to illness. I don't see a problem if they all die. The women and children are the innocents who need some lenience, and that's what D provides instead of a temporary blanket amnesty for the whole bunch.

Emmm you mean you expect those girls with bows we saw escorting elders before to surrender? Taking into consideration that village situation didnt change rest either way will die from starvation in long term.

So, what are you aiming to do? Telling him that you'll kill her if he tries to fight you? How exactly do you plan on keeping her within easy killing reach throughout a fight with possibly a mass of one hundred guys so that you can tell him to keep away or you'll take out her heart?

Would prefer duel between sides. Trying to convince opponents that fight would be total massacre on their side as there are people as skilled as Jing on Wo side. Preferably Jing vs Songfeng first as we will either way take -100 here. They are main block of opposition to retreat of orthodox and take into consideration that they are likely to accept that, helping us bypass possible veto from orthodox leadership. If necessary we will kill them, sending massage that Wo side is just to strong for those left and making possibility of fighting Jing more terrifying.

“It’s all a lie! He’s failed to take their leader’s head and now he seeks to scare us off doing the same so that he will not lose face!” shouts one of the pugilists. “Don’t fall for Man Tiger Pig’s lies! He’s only backpedalling now because he put his own reputation at stake!” A chorus of agreement echoes amongst the crowd, such is your reputation for trickery that they are eager to believe you are not telling the truth.

Cant Jing say to them that if they believe that he did this to excuse not getting head, he is willing to admit his loss in that challenge. I expect that telling them that he doing this to avoid bloodbath while bowing to them would be quite strong impulse. Not sure, but i think that such gesture is big deal in those times and culture.

 

[Nevill]

Cant Jing say to them that if they believe that he did this to excuse not getting head, he is willing to admit his loss in that challenge.

I don't think anyone but the guys from Songfeng care for the challenge anymore. The rest of them are here for justice, as they understand it.

 

[Jester]

Cant Jing say to them that if they believe that he did this to excuse not getting head, he is willing to admit his loss in that challenge.

I don't think anyone but the guys from Songfeng care for the challenge anymore. The rest of them are here for justice, as they understand it.

Its mostly for planting seed of doubt in them, making that bow more effective. Perhaps that will make them waver, abstract thing like justice and ethic are heavily affected by feelings. Jing will win if he will make them feel wrong in this. Such display may make rep hit bit smaller as bonus, still unlikely.

 

[Nevill]

Jing will win if he will make them feel wrong in this.

Agreed, but this is not about Jing. I don't think bowing to them can change anything.

 

[Kipeci]

-We still get paid by the Minamoto and will definitely get a chance to ask Zatoichi for some stealth tutoring, being a ghost in forests is pretty damn useful. No telling what other ninja tricks he knows.

As well as getting a door slammed in the chances of learning from many potential teachers who would prefer for their techniques not to benefit a traitor to the nation. I don't value a few sneaking tips that highly.

-The rep this brings will open doors into a lot of dissident and rebellious factions in the Empire, as well as give us the benefit of the doubt when dealing with foreigners that have heard of us (maybe this dude isn't a racist like all the others in Chine?)

Foreigners, huh? The Ashina already love us, we turned down the fire cult because the Codex hates cults even when it's in their best interests to poke around and find out a little about them, the Japanese will hate us for helping these guys, and these guys might be raiding far south or north to be pissing off the Vietnamese or the Koreans. We haven't met other groups of foreigners than the first three mentioned because they're generally far too remote compared to where all the action is taking place, but generally groups care about your actions depending on how it affects them. Since this will actively piss off the relevant people (the Japanese), that's probably going to outweigh whatever nebulous feelings people might get that maybe we're less xenophobic if only because we clearly hate our own people. If we wanted to impress anyone with our librul acceptance, we could just flash the wolf's fang necklace, anyway.

-The only bro our age in the orthodox sects is Guo Fu and I sincerely doubt he will give two flying fucks about us standing up for political exiles, the guy is too much of a sweetheart to believe in racism and nationalism.

He is a Chinese peasant, exactly like the groups that the one you're hoping to protect has been stabbing or leaving to starve. For all we know, he might have known personally people affected by this, and they're likely to count for more than blindly defending a bunch of pirates because the life of an exile is hard.

The Frathouse's relationship with us is a closely guarder secret. If they can forgive Zhang his massacres (I wonder, has our Master ever pulled something like this?) they can forgive us standing up for political exiles. Miecao is the last person to judge us standing up for bandits.
-We don't need to get in with the orthodox sects, we already have people and contacts on that side of the fence.

How easy do you think it's going to make it to visit those people when they're expected to attack a traitor like us on sight? When a meeting with us can absolutely destroy their reputations and make people suspicious of them? It's one thing for them to meet up with the lovable scoundrel who won the tournament (even if he is Zhang Jue's apprentice), it's quite another to have them meet up with the guy who sold out China's coastal peasants to a bunch of pirates and attacked and slaughtered his former allies for a bit of their stolen treasure and not lift a finger against him.

No, we get chased away.

Chased where? Who would threaten us? You're saying that they'll turn running in fear of us if we out and out challenge them, yet if we fight on their own side they'll get rid of us with ease?

We still can do so in B, if the pirates get an official pardon from the Empire. That will lift the accusations of treason from us, and we wanted to do so back when we chose A2.

So you think them getting a pardon would change public perception of our acts? That's laughable. I also want no part in spending the rest of our time that should be spent trying to recover the time-sensitive information we were given earlier to ask the emperor's son to publicly pardon pirates.

 

[Tigranes]

Sigh. So all that about A2 getting us a Grand Bargain, right? Tits up.

We're in deep shit, because the negotiation's about to go down in a fire and we haven't managed to build any significant leverage with any party, and we don't have any aces up the sleeve. It's hard for me to see how B could work. First we take the girl hostage, which makes everybody on the pugilist side even more furious with us and basically confirm their theories that we're in cahoots with the Wo, then we challenge all of them to combat. You think if we beat them all they'll graciously accept we were right? Basically what B does - B means we effectively become the official negotiator for the Wo who concludes negotiations by beating all of them up. All for a bunch of people we still don't know are 'the good guys' and no tangible benefit to our reputation or mission. By the same token I'm not happy with C. I simply don't see why so many peoplke are so sympathetic to the Wo. Either we think they're the bee's knees and fight on their side with everything to lose, or, ironically, we love the pugilists so much we're willing to make ourselves the Worst Ever to save themselves from death. Neither I feel is relevant to Jing and even remotely sensible.

There are only two real options here. Either we cut our losses with A, because we've fucked up - sometimes because we had no way of knowing, sometimes because we made bad choices - and there are no remotely decent outcomes to getting involved. Or, if we still want to see it through, we go with D, and join the pugilists again - because then one way or the other the affair will be concluded, and the pugilist deaths during the fighting hopefully won't be blamed on us because we worked hard on their side. The only way to make sure that the story gets out as "Jing tried his best to help" is D; with B or C, what happens is "Jing is treacherous, regularly consorts with non-Han weirdos, kidnaps people, etc, etc."

A>D

(I haven't had the time to read the last few pages carefully, so if I'm missing any big thing that has become consensus, hit me on the head)

 

[Kipeci]

I always forget that conditional votes are things.

Flopping to A>D

 

[Elfberserker]

You know I just noticed something. There has been lot of talk about preventing massacre of women and children or even concerns what they do when their husbands dies in land where they don't know the tongue nor relatives. What about families in orthodox sides? Sure they know the tongue and have families, but it would suck to hear their children lose their father or mother just because some unorthodox jerk decided to sympathize with foreign pirates. Not every fighter in orthodox side comes from rich or middle class families.

I know the appeal of having technique from ninja master and having good and honorable leader to join our and shu's cause, but is it worth of having race traitor trait and making orthodox schools hate us even more? Remember orthodox side is big player in the empire, perhaps only second to the empire itself. Betraying our own people closes lot of doors and opens few, maybe they are good doors but it still limits our options greatly. Orthodox schools may dislike us now, but they will hate us if we side with pirates. We tried peaceful solution, but we failed too many times. I know that we are pretty unorthodox, but to me this seems cross the line to the threat to every law bidding citizen, soldier, bureaucrat instead our current mischievous rogue type unorthodox.

Frankly I think it's time to salvage some damage here or cut our losses. If we choose D we still will be able to salvage something with Zhou clan and orthodox sects. We also prevent massacre of women and children, giving them still a fighting chance which is still a better than no chance at all. Bowmen and the ninja dude are the problem, but we know about bowmen and we have orthodox dudes fighting with us against ninja master. We really tried peaceful solution to situation where there is no clear moral victory in grasp anymore. I am sure that Frathousebro understand what we had do to, if we choose either B or D.

D>A. Sadly, but I think it's time for pragmatist approach.