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Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Lambchop19, I think you're trying to spin this situation to make Yorimitsu look like the bad guy. Personally, I think it's rationalization; if you can use some mental gymnastics to make the Minamoto Clan look like the pirates that we initially thought of them as, you don't really have to worry about any tricky moral dilemmas along the way. Okay, what more could they reasonably offer as an olive branch? Offering the head of their leader in return for peace seems to be really generous in terms of what they could reasonably offer, and if the pugilists are not willing to accept those terms, then the Minamoto are better off fighting. I just don't see what these people could possibly have done differently, given the circumstances.

Frankly, I don't like what treave pulled in this update. I would reckon that Jing, the girl, and the scholar should've actually collaborated on a plan for persuasion. Instead that got sidestepped and all of a sudden the scholar in the middle of fucking pirate island somehow gets enough liquor to get wasted and ruin diplo while the girl demonstrates a serious lack of good timing. It's like the three of them came together, decided there's something really big they needed to accomplish, and just nodded instead of coming up with any ideas.

Here is what I don't like about voting A:
We just tanked our reputation, now we get a worse reputation for leaving, and if Yoshimitsu loses his head (which he is way too eager to stick out on a silver platter) we lose the challenge to boot. To top it off we will probably get blamed for the loss the sects are about to face, and if word gets out about our reward from the pirates, then well...

Here is what I don't like about voting C:
We get fucking hated by the orthodox community and the law. We basically become a pirate as far as they're concerned.

Here is what I don't like about voting D:
Jing cannot handle ranged combat or ninja(s). And I still don't see how the sects are going to win this.

With 1 LCK, bad shit will happen at the worst time, that's just the nature of the beast. They did collaborate, Scholarbro just seems to have gotten drunk at an inopportune time while Zixia fucked up the plan. Bad timing is bad luck.

As for your point about ranged combat, I disagree. There are about a hundred pugilists out there, and considering the Minamoto are more concerned about them at the moment, and the surprise factor of Jing turning on their leader, they probably won't get us right away. Jing is also a very fast fighter, so I find it unlikely that they'll even be able to hit him if he's got his neigong and qinggong active and giving him AGI 10.

I don't see why you're so convinced that the pugilists will still be beat: they might be green, but they still have an overwhelming advantage in terms of numbers. I'm not counting out the Minamoto, but it's very clear that even if they do win, they'll take huge losses along the way.

In any case, it's a minor point overall; there is absolutely no doubt that B is much, much more dangerous than D is. But I see a lot of benefits in the long-run if we manage to come out of B in one piece (though we'd make many new enemies as well).
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
B is definitely dangerous but there are a lot of ways we come out ahead from this. Also, most of the martial artists were described as being cannon-fodder grade. They don't have many dangerous fighters here. Not compared to Jing, and the eagle grip gives us a very strong nonlethal technique. I agree that taking them all on at once is better for his endurance than a very extended series of 1v1 matches. Not to mention we'll probably learn some skills or techniques from it.

As for D, if we kill the leader, the pirates will aim to kill us, and I'm pretty certain the ninja and others have their eyes on their leader's safety. The surprise factor may be there, but it's pretty limited. We'll probably fight his ninja bodyguard(s), and we can't take that master on. As for outnumbering the pirates, a lot of them will die from traps and archers before they even manage to engage the enemy, so the numbers advantage isn't strong at all. Also, it puts the girl and scholar at risk. It wont kill us, but it won't turn out well either. D is still a rather dangerous proposition which will reward us with just an okay rep and hopefully some loot.
 
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treave

Arcane
Patron
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Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
treave, two questions: how good looking is Miss Zhou and how long until the next update, considering your busy schedule?

Not sure. I won't be around for a week starting Tuesday so I'd like to finish up this pirate business before then. I might have an update out sometime in the next 12 hours, though votes aren't closed yet.

Frankly, I don't like what treave pulled in this update. I would reckon that Jing, the girl, and the scholar should've actually collaborated on a plan for persuasion. Instead that got sidestepped and all of a sudden the scholar in the middle of fucking pirate island somehow gets enough liquor to get wasted and ruin diplo while the girl demonstrates a serious lack of good timing. It's like the three of them came together, decided there's something really big they needed to accomplish, and just nodded instead of coming up with any ideas.

With 1 LCK, bad shit will happen at the worst time, that's just the nature of the beast. They did collaborate, Scholarbro just seems to have gotten drunk at an inopportune time while Zixia fucked up the plan. Bad timing is bad luck.

Without revealing how the other paths would have gone, I'll just say that considering the choices made that preceded this situation, the chances for a wholly peaceful, non-violent resolution were almost negligible in the first place. Bad luck just made it all the more certain, in a way adding insult to injury at how it all fell apart. The cards were stacked against peace from the start in ways that the character couldn't have known about, so that's not a knock on the voters' decision making, though.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Fair enough, you cocktease. Since you're in a talkative mood,
But between the Yuchang Sword, our bullshit AGI and STR scores, 6 Unarmed and 5 Sword and the erratic neiggong, we have a pretty solid chance of making it through this, albeit with cuts and bruises. The two killers here will be LCK (which we can't really account for, may happen or may not) and Jing's mindset. treave, is he going into B with "kill or be killed" mindset or is he going to fuck around like he did with Guo Fu, right before he broke his arm?
We're going in with B in "serious mode," not "trolling mode." right?
 

Anabanana

Augur
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
1,061
Even without a him as leader, his people could still continue to pirate for all Zhou knows.

Precisely. And that's why Team Orthodox isn't going to leave anybody alive. Zhou already said explicitly that "no matter what their circumstances are, the fact is that they have pillaged our villages", so he's obviously not at all interested in trying to negotiate a long-term solution.

edit: not that any of this matters as B is a lock.... :lol:

Frankly, I don't like what treave pulled in this update. I would reckon that Jing, the girl, and the scholar should've actually collaborated on a plan for persuasion. Instead that got sidestepped and all of a sudden the scholar in the middle of fucking pirate island somehow gets enough liquor to get wasted and ruin diplo while the girl demonstrates a serious lack of good timing. It's like the three of them came together, decided there's something really big they needed to accomplish, and just nodded instead of coming up with any ideas.

Perhaps the Codex shouldn't have voted for a character who isn't good at plotting and planning. Or has fucking horrible luck. As for our scholarbro, we KNEW that he has poor judgment enough to get drunk and then bang his way through the entire Yuhua Hall twice, and we still choose - overwhelmingly, in fact - to blow all our cash on bringing him along. Mmhmm. Not that I don't think that it was a bad decision, but I'm just saying treave-style hardcore C&C is what makes these CYOAs fun, dude.

Here is what I don't like about voting A:
We just tanked our reputation, now we get a worse reputation for leaving, and if Yoshimitsu loses his head (which he is way too eager to stick out on a silver platter) we lose the challenge to boot. To top it off we will probably get blamed for the loss the sects are about to face, and if word gets out about our reward from the pirates, then well...

Here is what I don't like about voting C:
We get fucking hated by the orthodox community and the law. We basically become a pirate as far as they're concerned.

Here is what I don't like about voting D:
Jing cannot handle ranged combat or ninja(s). And I still don't see how the sects are going to win this.

Yeaaaahhh, that's a pretty good sum up. From the looks of it, the pirates are pretty well-prepared for this attack.

Anyway, I went through all the choices again from various angles:

Combat Outcomes

A. With the archers picking off Team Zhou's superiority in numbers, it seems to me that the pirates are going to succeed in at least driving them out of the island. For now. Of course, that's just going to make them come back with stronger and bigger numbers, and we lose all chances of negotiating something peaceful. I predict casualities on both side, with significantly more deaths on the orthodox side. Without us participating, we avoid giving a significant edge to either side. In terms of personal safety, this is the best choice.

B. We are most likely going to hurt some of the orthodox members at the very least, and kill some of them in the worst case scenario. Because this is the kind of training we have. This will probably lead to less orthodox deaths than in A, C, or D, and most likely completely prevent any pirate deaths, but eh, there's the chance of us getting seriously hurt or dying.

C. With the pirates' setup and our help, we will try and end this quickly, instead of getting into a prolonged battle like what's likely to happen in A or D. There will probably be more orthodox deaths than in B, and most important, deaths by the pirates' hands AND our own. A few pirates will likely die too, but much less than in A.

D. We'll succeed in taking off the leader's head, and can survive the barrage of arrows that'll get fired at us immediately after because we know they're there and can prepare for it, and maaaaybe the pissed off uncle ninja (who might be swamped by other fighters? but he's going to want revenge for us turning coat on Yoshimitsu, so...), but without the leader directing them, there is a very good chance that the pirates will suffer severe losses, but not without significant losses on the orthodox side. Less so than in A, much less so than in C, but probably more than B.

Reputation and Connection Outcomes

A. The most interesting thing about this choice is the fact that Yoshimitsu is a reasonable person and won't blame us if we quietly leave, meaning that we'll still have decent rep amongst the Wo community. Which might not count for much, or it might. We definitely won't be getting any special quest rewards from them except for the promised payment. For those who want the "Jing tried his best" narrative, this is the choice to make. Of course, the orthodox community will still think we're a self-interested coward on top of being a traitor, oh, and who also tried to corrupt Zhou's maidenly daughter for no good reason.

B. Isn't this what you all voted for? Glory and infamy? If we pull this off, this is going to be another step towards building our legend (hoho title drop), which is already looking pretty impressive, what with Apprentice of the Killer Doctor, Disciple of the Southern Maniac, tournament champion, and now pulling this huge, dangerous stunt. Of course, it'll be spun as "Jing is a traitor to the crown". Especially with the rampant xenophobia, any kind of sympathy or support for the pirates, no matter how reasonable, is going to look like treachery. Which really isn't a big deal since we've been exiled from the palace already, and if rebels and groups conspiring against Shun are more amenable to interacting with us because of this, that's great. We will also get massive rep points with the Wo faction, which might pay off down the line if Yoshimitsu ever gets back into power and we need Japan to back us up against invasions, or prevent a Japanese invasion, but eh, that's really tenuous. We might get to learn ninja-sneaking skills and get Broshimitsu on our side, but that's it. Honestly though, this is what an unorthodox protagonist of an wuxia epic would do.

C. Reputation effects similar to B, but without the glory of singlehandedly fighting off a hundred orthodox fighters.

D. This will probably ruin our rep with both factions, hahaha. Because if Zhou really didn't want to kill the women and children, he would've already hesitated during the negotiations, so we're going to have to defy the orthodox community regardless, when we try and stop them from doing so.

Morality

A. This choice is if you think that you don't approve of the actions of either side, morally, and step away to let them decide this on their own terms without your own combat strength aiding either side. This will most likely lead to the most casualties in the long term, no matter who wins.
B. By taking on the responsibility of dealing with Team Zhou all by ourselves, we buy time for further negotiations and hopefully a long-term compromise that will benefit everybody, and prevent deaths on both sides by having the combat be in a slightly more controlled format instead of an outright skirmish.
C. We try and minimize the immediate bloodshed, but ruin all chances of any long-term negotiations because the pirates will have killed members of the orthodox community, and they take their grudges and revenge extremely seriously. If we really want to minimize casualties, B is the way to go because at least this way the orthodox community won't have archers raining arrows down on them from a completely unseen spot.
D. Yes, let's try and save the women and children even though they've lost their leader and will therefore have nobody to lead, organize, and protect them in the long-term. This is not a sustainable solution. Unless you want Jing to be the new pirate king. Not to mention that the orthodox community will still be after them anyway, even if they don't kill them today, as the "remnants of the pirate fleet". Cut the grass*, destroy the roots, remember?

*Speaking of cutting grass, can I just say HAHAHAHAHA I can't believe you all passed up learning a super awesome healing finger technique from one of the best doctors in the world in favour of being a walking lawnmover. *snerk*

Overall

A is the choice to pick if you don't give a fuck about other people and just want the money. Which, to be fair, is what people signed up for. But now that we know what's actually going on, just walking away would be morally bankrupt. Remember that orthodox vs unorthodox split in the beginning? People were like "oh, but we want to play a good guy, just not somebody constrained by rules and shit, instead of being outright evil". Well. This is your chance to prove it. B is the exact kind of thing that it seems that people were thinking about when they wanted to go unorthodox in the first place. With our rep, we can actually do shit like this and get away with it. And really, B is the most interesting, narrative-wise. Like I said, it's the wuxia hero option.

Of course, A is the most sensible, safest option, that ALSO guarantees us loot. Yoshimitsu won't hold it against us, and while the orthodox members will be like wtf dude they won't hate us as much as if we go B, C, or maybe even D. Well, more than they already do, anyway. But really, what's the point of trying to look good for the orthodox peeps, low-ranking orthodox peeps at that, when the whole point of going unorthodox is that we don't have to worry about petty little things like what the orthodox people think of us?

Though there is one interesting thing I'd like to point out that probably has nothing to do with this choice - but Zhou Junior actually seems to be a somewhat reasonable person and maybe a potential ally, because he tried to speak up for us while his dad was leaping to (correct, but still hasty) conclusions. Back during our first meeting, when everyone was gunning for us, he supported us as well and tried to smooth things over.

“Look,” says Zhou Zhideng, trying to help his father salvage the situation. “Can everyone just calm down? I have seen Man Tiger Pig in battle. I do not think he is here to cause trouble, and I think he will be of great help.”

It seems to me that if we need to negotiate a long-term solution to this, the son might well be an important asset in providing a voice of moderation.
 

treave

Arcane
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Codex 2012
treave, is he going into B with "kill or be killed" mindset or is he going to fuck around like he did with Guo Fu, right before he broke his arm?We're going in with B in "serious mode," not "trolling mode." right?

If you need to.
 

Anabanana

Augur
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
1,061
Xu Jing himself is almost like a badass, more moral version of Wei Xiao Bao. Let's see if we can net him his own harem!

Writing seven distinct wives is beyond my capability to handle. Having said that, I find it interesting how similar the Deer and the Cauldron is in that aspect to the typical anime harem stories that flood the market nowadays, considering that it was written in the 70s.

Wait, don't we already have close to that number already? Yunzi(/Holy Maiden?), Cao'er, Quiling, Yifang (this is going to be the Smiling, Proud Wanderer all over again isn't it)... Cao'er in particular seems pretty happy with the idea. Then once we grab the Zhou girl, her friend, and Lady Ji, we'll be set for life! Heck, we could even throw Yoshimitsu and scholarbro into the mix!:yeah:

I think one of the reasons Deer and the Cauldron had that harem setup was because Jin Yong was tired of writing relatively upright, straightlaced protagonists, and so went with a full out scumbag for his last novel. :D But yeah, I'd be surprised if there hasn't been a dating sim based on that novel yet. If not, somebody should make it!
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
B is the exact kind of thing that it seems that people were thinking about when they wanted to go unorthodox in the first place. With our rep, we can actually do shit like this and get away with it. And really, B is the most interesting, narrative-wise. Like I said, it's the wuxia hero option.
I thought about this too and, this will sound incredibly naive, I'm genuinely starting to wonder if maybe our Master's random brutality isn't so mindless and sadistic. After all, Jing is doing the mostly right thing here, but will be branded with the heaviest of brands for saving lives and preventing a massacre on both sides.

I wonder if Master Zhang was in similar situations where he did what he felt and though was the right thing, and by a neutral account it was, but his actions were pictured in a very different context because "OMG, HIS WORD IS WORTH NOTHING AND HE OPPOSES US! BEGONE SPAWN OF SATAN!" Kinda like what will happen with us in B.
 

Absinthe

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Messages
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Without revealing how the other paths would have gone, I'll just say that considering the choices made that preceded this situation, the chances for a wholly peaceful, non-violent resolution were almost negligible in the first place. Bad luck just made it all the more certain, in a way adding insult to injury at how it all fell apart. The cards were stacked against peace from the start in ways that the character couldn't have known about, so that's not a knock on the voters' decision making, though.
Well sure, but with stuff like this it's better to set it up a bit, not just say it happened. Actually that's been irking me a bit about the recent updates. We've been traveling with Xiahou Yu and now Zhou Zixia but the mentions are so minimal, we've barely learned anything about our companions. At least loredump a little bit about them as a "And here's what you've learned on your travels" aside.
 

Anabanana

Augur
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Messages
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Without revealing how the other paths would have gone, I'll just say that considering the choices made that preceded this situation, the chances for a wholly peaceful, non-violent resolution were almost negligible in the first place. Bad luck just made it all the more certain, in a way adding insult to injury at how it all fell apart. The cards were stacked against peace from the start in ways that the character couldn't have known about, so that's not a knock on the voters' decision making, though.
Well sure, but with stuff like this it's better to set it up a bit, not just say it happened. Actually that's been irking me a bit about the recent updates. We've been traveling with Xiahou Yu and now Zhou Zixia but the mentions are so minimal, we've barely learned anything about our companions. At least loredump a little bit about them as a "And here's what you've learned on your travels" aside.

I wouldn't mind more social linking and detail about our companions, no. Then again, it's not like we're paying treave to do this, so... hey, I know, why not start a Kickstarter so that treave can write CYOAs for us full time! Stretch goals: more details about our companions!

In all seriousness though, I think that Zhou Zixia's recklessness and lack of judgment was already pretty evident from what we already knew of her character? You know, the fact that she walked right up to the disciple of the Southern Maniac while knowing nothing about our trustworthiness, and tried to pull off a scheme like this? So in terms of giving us information for choices, I think her characterization was pretty sufficient to go off on. Besides, I'm pretty sure that she'll be a relatively unimportant NPC instead of joining our party full time like scholarbro over there. It WOULD have been nice to get some scenes of them talking about politics and stuff, you know, since scholarbro evidently has some anti-government tendencies and it would be useful to know more about that.
 

treave

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Codex 2012
There's not that much to learn, given that you've only been hanging around with them for less than a week (a day, in Miss Zhou's case), but if you notice anything you think you'd like to know, but isn't there, just ask for further clarification and I'll type something up if it's something you should know.

I agree, there is plenty of stuff I could have added - reunion scene with the friend, more dialogue with the pirates, conversations amongst themselves etc, which would have fleshed out the characters, their motivations, acted as foreshadowing for the brouhaha in question, and served as a loredump. Unfortunately I'm not going through a particular period of time where I can whole-heartedly focus on the LP, so the fluff is definitely going to suffer for it as I cut to the main event of whichever update I'm on instead of taking the time to build it up.

Should I drop it until I have more free time to devote to writing, in the interests of higher quality? I'd rather not, that's a good way to end up not finishing it at all. So for now, I'd appreciate it if any missing details that you guys think should be known, and factors into your decision, can be pointed out. If my response is vague, press for further details until you get something that is conclusive (even if it is a straight no). :rpgcodex:
 

Anabanana

Augur
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Jul 31, 2012
Messages
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B is the exact kind of thing that it seems that people were thinking about when they wanted to go unorthodox in the first place. With our rep, we can actually do shit like this and get away with it. And really, B is the most interesting, narrative-wise. Like I said, it's the wuxia hero option.
I thought about this too and, this will sound incredibly naive, I'm genuinely starting to wonder if maybe our Master's random brutality isn't so mindless and sadistic. After all, Jing is doing the mostly right thing here, but will be branded with the heaviest of brands for saving lives and preventing a massacre on both sides.

I wonder if Master Zhang was in similar situations where he did what he felt and though was the right thing, and by a neutral account it was, but his actions were pictured in a very different context because "OMG, HIS WORD IS WORTH NOTHING AND HE OPPOSES US! BEGONE SPAWN OF SATAN!" Kinda like what will happen with us in B.

Without knowing the details of his backstory, we can't really tell. Personally, I think it's less that he's secretly a good guy underneath, but more like his moral viewpoint doesn't coincide with the viewpoint of the orthodox community. For example, when he learnt that we were poisoned, he immediately jumped to "let's rip that shit off - you won't need it because I'll make you the strongest fighter EVAR!" When the Emei sect wanted their sword back, he was like "fuck that, give it to them and I'll kill you" because he wanted to use it to make the nuns into our fighting homework. So his violence is not mindless in the sense that he has justifications for it that make sense to him, but are extreme and not socially acceptable.

Overall, it seems like he's only interested in one thing - shonen hero-esque pursuit of being the strongest, or at least showing off that his style of fighting is the strongest. I forgot who said it, but I liked the description of him as being a martial arts mad scientist using his apprentices as guinea pigs in order to develop his style further. Because that's pretty much what he is, given what we know of him, only instead of FOR SCIENCE!! he's like FOR FIGHTING!!

Again, though, since we don't know much about his backstory (because we didn't ask for loredumps on him LOL), it's hard to say. I mean, it seems like we interacted more with the nuns and tigers more than him while we were training, so. (I am still pissed that you didn't choose the angsty poet animal friend option. Blehhh.)
 

Baltika9

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Again, though, since we don't know much about his backstory (because we didn't ask for loredumps on him LOL), it's hard to say. I mean, it seems like we interacted more with the nuns and tigers more than him while we were training, so. (I am still pissed that you didn't choose the angsty poet animal friend option. Blehhh.)
And I'm still extremely butthurt that we didn't go for "get drunk and punch tigers in the face" Jing, that was a monumental display of faggotry almost on par with not going for Space Pirate Senya.
I'm pretty sure that asking about Zhang's backstory would net a reaction like, "You want to get to know me better? Haha, wow you're gay. Get back to training." But, yeah, I really want to explore his character and background, the more we progress in this LP the more curious I become. And I was extremely curious to begin with.
I agree, there is plenty of stuff I could have added - reunion scene with the friend, more dialogue with the pirates, conversations amongst themselves etc, which would have fleshed out the characters, their motivations, acted as foreshadowing for the brouhaha in question, and served as a loredump. Unfortunately I'm not going through a particular period of time where I can whole-heartedly focus on the LP, so the fluff is definitely going to suffer for it as I cut to the main event of whichever update I'm on instead of taking the time to build it up.
I understand, schedules can be a bitch or multiple bitches. You can make it up to us with more cuddly Zhang time later.
Say, is Jing able to grow a beard like his Master at this point? Serious question, it will really help us in trolling our opponents if we go B.
 

Anabanana

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Messages
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There's not that much to learn, given that you've only been hanging around with them for less than a week (a day, in Miss Zhou's case), but if you notice anything you think you'd like to know, but isn't there, just ask for further clarification and I'll type something up if it's something you should know.

I agree, there is plenty of stuff I could have added - reunion scene with the friend, more dialogue with the pirates, conversations amongst themselves etc, which would have fleshed out the characters, their motivations, acted as foreshadowing for the brouhaha in question, and served as a loredump. Unfortunately I'm not going through a particular period of time where I can whole-heartedly focus on the LP, so the fluff is definitely going to suffer for it as I cut to the main event of whichever update I'm on instead of taking the time to build it up.

Should I drop it until I have more free time to devote to writing, in the interests of higher quality? I'd rather not, that's a good way to end up not finishing it at all. So for now, I'd appreciate it if any missing details that you guys think should be known, and factors into your decision, can be pointed out. If my response is vague, press for further details until you get something that is conclusive (even if it is a straight no). :rpgcodex:

That sounds pretty reasonable, treave! Thank you for taking the time to plan and write this CYOA for us even with your busy schedule, it's been incredibly enjoyable so far.

cuddly Zhang time

Yes, let's cuddle up with the Southern Maniac and melt his heart with the power of TSUNDERE!

I would actually have been fine with "punch tigers to death drunkenly" Jing. Actually, all of those options were pretty good in terms of mechanics, I just thought the animal friend thing was the most hilarious, with the drunken tiger wrestling being a close second.
 

Baltika9

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Yes, let's cuddle up with the Southern Maniac and melt his heart with the power of TSUNDERE!
At this point, if Master Zhang takes on a second student, my plan is to throw a huge hissy fit and march off with a final "Fine, be that way! I never liked you in the first place, stupid Master!"
 

Tigranes

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Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Yeah, the truth of it is we had many people arguing A2 was too much to hope for, others saying it was worth a shot. There were more of the latter. And that's fine, that's just how we roll. We'll make it out of this. Probably.

I can see the merits of forcing a settlement with B and with getting on sneak master's good graces. I just hope B won't result in them saying FUCK YOU and attacking us or forcing some other form of showdown. Sticking with A for now, though that also is very unsatisfying.
 

Nevill

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Jun 6, 2009
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11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Wait, don't we already have close to that number already? Yunzi(/Holy Maiden?), Cao'er, Quiling, Yifang (this is going to be the Smiling, Proud Wanderer all over again isn't it)... Cao'er in particular seems pretty happy with the idea. Then once we grab the Zhou girl, her friend, and Lady Ji, we'll be set for life!
Drop the nameless friend and Lady Ji, replace them with Nie sisters, and you've got a deal!
And with two pairs of twins in the mix, treave only needs to write for 5 people. It's perfect!
 

Baltika9

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Yeah, I don't think touching Zhang's woman is in our best interests, now or ever. Stay as far away from Lady Ji as possible.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Lambchop19, I think you're trying to spin this situation to make Yorimitsu look like the bad guy.
I really do believe as I've said. No spin. Just my opinion. I think he's way to complacent about his people's piracy. The fact that he's not desperate to have them stop even in spite of this invasion really doesn't set well with me. I know he has a lot of poor circumstances, but I'm not convinced that continued piracy is as necessary for him as he's claiming.
Even without a him as leader, his people could still continue to pirate for all Zhou knows.

Precisely. And that's why Team Orthodox isn't going to leave anybody alive.
Um, how are a bunch of women and children who's ships will be burnt going to pirate anything. That's not even reasonable. Zhou's just being a bit of a stick in the mud and wants all the pirates to die - which by law they should. I'm pretty sure between us and his daughter, we'll be able to convince him to spare the women and children's lives at least and possibly even find shelter for them. There is practically no reason not to from his perspective.
 
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Nevill

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Lambchop19, answer me this, please.

What were his alternatives? There is no food to feed his people. They can't grow it on the island, they can't settle on the mainland, they can't trade. What else he should have done?

He does not believe his actions right or just, but he does believe them to be the only ones he could have taken, and I have to agree with him.

The punishment for his crimes is due, but I don't quite support the notion that a genocide is the right solution. That the pugilists will give shelter the families of the pirates is laughable. They are clearly in a mood for total extermination, as one of the choices suggests that you would try to stop them before it happens. How can you convince them, after failing your diplomacy check so remarkably just now? And don't even bring Zhou Zixia in this, I won't let that kid near the negotiation table ever again.

Not to mention that the families themselves hold no illusions about their fate, and will resist to the last man and woman.
 
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Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
They are clearly in a mood for total extermination
Well, that came out wrong.

I do not believe they came here to slaughter women, kids, and the elderly (they aren't monsters), but I do think that the current situation will leave them no choice. Everyone who can fight from the pirate side will do so, because this is a fight for their lives, as far as they are concerned. Nobody tried to solve their problem, and should the island fall, the only thing left for them would be to die of starvation, so they'll try to sell their lives dearly.

The kids might survive because they can not harm the pugilists and that can stay their hand, but I don't think anybody would take them. So, essentially, this ends the same as if the pugilists slaughtered them all.
 

Jester

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
1,493
“I have considered that option, but there are two problems standing in the way. Firstly, after so many months we have yet to identify a suitable location nearby on the mainland. None of the villages will take us in – we have tried, and failed, to even trade with them, before resorting to raids. I am afraid foreigners are not very welcomed here. The city’s market is different, but no less useless to us – there are powerful merchants linked to the prefect that have barred us from trading. Understandable, as some of them do business in my home country and they would not want to incur the displeasure of the Taira. Secondly, if we were to venture further inland, we would not have the supplies necessary to make the long march. I hear that bandits are rife upon the roads, and the total number of women, children and elderly I have to protect number nearly two hundred. Why would I risk the lives of my people when we have begun getting comfortable here?” declares Yorimitsu.
Yes, he's given a lot of very good reasons (excuses), but the fact remains, this is were the are getting comfortable - as pirates on an island.
Emmm i may be wrong but didn't he was talking about village they build on island? I mean i would be quite pissed if i would build home and made field and was asked to vacant it.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Actually, now that I think about it, they should have left money in the villages they had raided, forcing the 'trade'. Don't know if it would help matters or not, but at least it would have made it possible to spin their story in the right direction.

Jester said:
Emmm i may be wrong but didn't he was talking about village they build on island?
He did, but do not let the words of a filthy foreign scum to cloud your judgement!
 

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