[LP CYOA] 傳

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

B>E

E>B

 

[Nevill]

I was fully into walking into the wilderness and being our own man, but I do not like what I hear about unorthodox sects.

I want our guy to have just the right amount of cunning to give him the edge in combat and avoid harm: attack first, strike silently from the back if the situation warrants it, kick the enemy in the nuts - these kind of small things that help staying alive and in good health more than they help acquiring a heroic image. I definitely don't want to maim and mutilate people casually, become insane in a bid for power, or practice techniques that rely heavily on those. I also think that bandits, brigands and assassins would not be the best choice of company for the boy if he is opposed to rape, pillage and murder, which I think he is.

Now that I've read treave's clarification, I think that the contempt unorthodox fighting styles get from the more upright parts of the world is well-deserved. Would not want to go near those. Incorporating some mild elements from these styles would benefit us greatly, though, but to allow us to pick and choose we must rely on one of the more orthodox techniques to become the basis of our own style.

Not voting yet.

 

[TOME]

If we can go kamehameha route then thrown weapons are useless. But if we can't shoot fireballs from our ass, thrown weapons could give our char greater range in combat while not hampering unarmed combat.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

If we can go kamehameha route then thrown weapons are useless. But if we can't shoot fireballs from our ass, thrown weapons could give our char greater range in combat while not hampering unarmed combat.

All the throwing skill we need is a good long jump stat.

 

[Baltika9]

Do consider that becoming a psycho bad-guy is completely optional. Playing a heroic ronin is entirely possible too. And saying that everyone we'll meet in E will be a villainous bandit/assassin/whatever is just ignorant, there are many people in this world that we can learn from: mercenaries, adventurers, hermits, so on and so forth. Yeah, E is the most difficult option, but it's also the most entertaining one.
I think you guys are also underestimating what it means to be sworn to a sect: they own your ass, you can't do shit without their say-so, if you leave you become Exocommunicate Traitoris

Due to your background (your loyalty is ultimately to the Prince), you can opt to leave a sect after picking up their techniques - a farmer, on the other hand, might not be as free. But be warned that this could reduce your reputation with the faction severely, depending on how much you learnt and what relationship you have with their leadership. They usually don't like it if people pop in just to learn their techniques and then scurry off after a year. Could mean you get labelled a technique thief and get a bounty put on your head.

You could also piss them off so much that they expel you, though usually in those circumstances they may attempt to cripple your inner strength as a punishment before throwing you out, so that your martial arts capability will be limited. But the punishment varies depending on just how pissed they are, and how much you've learnt.

There are ways to leave cordially, but usually people don't get to do that before they've spent a good ten or twenty years of their life repaying the master of the sect for taking them in and imparting his skills.

edit: As for the last choice, to wander, it doesn't mean you won't pick up masters and martial arts along the way, but it does mean that your training will be highly unorthodox from the start, and so will your reputation. You will still get as much opportunities to improve yourself as with a major sect, except in a different direction. It would be harder, though, that much I can't deny.

That's really not the road I want Tigerbro to go down, to be a beast that can't live without a master. Besides, we can get in good with certain orthodox sects as a free agent and learn some shit from them (not all of it, granted, but some). E is just so flexible, so perfect for someone of Xing's potential, that going for anything else just seems, well, wrong.

 

[treave]

I wouldn't want to paint a picture of outright black and white, good and evil. Even amongst bandits there is honor. There are also people who would rather accept being called unorthodox than abide by the rules of the sects.

Perhaps it is better if I put it like this: the label of unorthodoxy is a broad one, used to define anything that is not orthodox. In terms of techniques, the use of 'evil' ones would definitely classify you as unorthodox, no matter how much of a model gentleman you are otherwise, but you can be unorthodox in behavior and not use killing techniques, yet get the same label.

In fact, your Tujue technique could be deemed unorthodox by the stricter factions by virtue of being foreign. I did say the commonly held stereotype of unorthodox techniques was as being vicious, but not all of them will be. The only things that are defined is what orthodoxy. Everything else is up to interpretation.

Hm, not sure if that makes sense? The words aren't coming to me.

 

[TOME]

If we can go kamehameha route then thrown weapons are useless. But if we can't shoot fireballs from our ass, thrown weapons could give our char greater range in combat while not hampering unarmed combat.

All the throwing skill we need is a good long jump stat.

Why wouldn't you want to take out enemies during that jump? If we can learn the Tujue Shuzan skill for thrown weapon, there is no stopping us.

 

[Nevill]

Do consider that becoming a psycho bad-guy is completely optional. Playing a heroic ronin is entirely possible too. And saying that everyone we'll meet in E will be a villainous bandit/assassin/whatever is just ignorant, there are many people in this world that we can learn from: mercenaries, adventurers, hermits, so on and so forth.

Does not sound like we will have much choice in company:

Orthodox sect members are also the majority in the pugilistic world, so by being unorthodox you will naturally become an outcast. Of course, there's a thriving underworld of bandits, assassins, mercenaries and all sorts of evil-doers, and these are by the pugilistic community's definition very unorthodox, so you won't be that lonely. But it's definitely a more dangerous place to be for a fourteen year old boy. People will think you have a death wish to willingly hang around with brigands and scoundrels.

If you want to learn unorthodox techniques, consider what is it what you want to learn, why is it considered unorthodox in the first place, and whom will you learn it from. Yes, you might learn from hermits and adventurers, but the sort you want to hang around with will probably employ more honorable techniques. And E is not the path for that.

E is just so flexible, so perfect for someone of Xing's potential, that going for anything else just seems, well, wrong.

Unless I can confirm with treave that we can avoid harmful influence to our kid without crippling him in ways of techniques, I do not fancy this choice. And that would be too meta to ask directly. Simply put, if you want to learn an orthodox style (and, again, I do not like the sound of unorhtodox ones), you go to the corresponding sect. That's what the other 4 choices are for.

 

[Baltika9]

Well,

I wouldn't want to paint a picture of outright black and white, good and evil. Even amongst bandits there is honor. There are also people who would rather accept being called unorthodox than abide by the rules of the sects.

Perhaps it is better if I put it like this: the label of unorthodoxy is a broad one, used to define anything that is not orthodox. In terms of techniques, the use of 'evil' ones would definitely classify you as unorthodox, no matter how much of a model gentleman you are otherwise, but you can be unorthodox in behavior and not use killing techniques, yet get the same label.

In fact, your Tujue technique could be deemed unorthodox by the stricter factions by virtue of being foreign. I did say the commonly held stereotype of unorthodox techniques was as being vicious, but not all of them will be. The only things that are defined is what orthodoxy. Everything else is up to interpretation.

there you have it. I did forget to mention that funny thing about "orthodoxy:" it's only orthodox if it's part of our little club. It just gives us freedom to make our own, not go along someone else's script. We just have to watch who we keep as company, that's it. Shit luck can be countered by not relying on it too much, same goes for the company we keep. By the way, my two-step plan for dealing with psycho stalkers in the future: 1) marry Yunzi, 2) sic her on the stalkers and get to a safe distance.

Not that my arguments matter too much right now, E is on the track to losing and I know most of the people here will go for B or C, which aren't bad choices given our stats, but passing up the opportunity for truly freeforming this will be something I will regret in the future.

 

[treave]

As for being stuck with the sect you choose, I wouldn't worry too much about not having the freedom to wander. You get some leeway after a couple years. All the senior students do. Of course, E will give you a wider view of the world from the start.

 

[Baltika9]

A couple of years we could spend getting our bearings in the real world, investigating the assassins and not getting our mindset broken in with doctrines.

All I'm saying is, if we meet a shady stranger in the slums who says "Psst, kid. Yeah you, you look like you have some potential, wanna learn how to use poisons?" it's probably not a good idea to follow him.

 

[Nevill]

I fully understand that orthodoxy is just a label, that there are bound to be exceptions and all that, but it had built a certain reputation for itself. One does not merely ignore such things.

All right, I'll bite. If there is a way to learn some of the less famous styles without enslaving ourselves to one sect or another AND without compromising our moral compass, I am all for it. E does sound like it provides some interesting choices, and the difficulty does not scare me off. But if our character will turn into someone who looks the other way when there is infamy afoot, I will personally throw him into the nearest rift and strike a conversation with the first sphere we encounter. We did not narrowly avoid the trip to the pigsty to start valuing our hide above all else now, of all times.

As for other options, A is out, because Jing attributes little value to rules when they clash with what he perceives as right. He'll either get himself expelled or broken. He also has too much pride to be a simple beggar and/or information broker - his tongue and hot head will be his downfall sooner or later. That leaves B and C as the reasonable orthodox choices. I do believe that the most difficult fights won't always be on our terms, and nothing beats unarmed in terms of sheer flexibility. Your weapon may be taken away, your arms cannot (well, they can, but then you won't have much use for weapons anyway). Out of weapons, swords seem to be the most prominent, as Huashan Sect only dabbles in other styles. And you can get both swords and unarmed by choosing Wudang Sect.

So really, it is a competition between B and E.

I would like for the boy to develop a broader outlook on the world. The fact that he did not ponder for a second over staying with the Ashina and even considered going through with his punishment to the end when he had an alternative (seriously, WTF?) does not sit well with me. Loyalty is fine and all, but the excess of subservience needs to be rectified, and submitting to the rules of various sects does little to change this.

Thus, E.

 

[treave]

Looking the other way or harming innocents is a choice you'll have to consciously make, regardless of whether you're in a sect or out of it. I will say that it is easier to stray without the more rigid principles of a sect, and being in one may teach discipline and restraint better by virtue of the structured environment. Even with the beggars.

As for his loyalty, I did say that the Adjutant background has unmatched loyalty as a defining characteristic. He's been trained for that since he was 4. But that loyalty is first and foremost to the Prince. He isn't going to roll over for the sects or any master he meets just because they train him. How that changes, or whether it changes at all, will be up to you guys.

Edit: He is getting off very lightly for dereliction of duty, to be fair. He returned expecting torture and ultimately death. Servants have been killed outright for lesser reasons. His nature have combined with his upbringing to create a personality that will break the rules to do what he thinks is right yet kneel and accept the punishment willingly for breaking said rules.

A promising masochist, in other words.

 

[Nevill]

Looking the other way or harming innocents is a choice you'll have to consciously make, regardless of whether you're in a sect or out of it.

Well, if you go with some mercenary band, and they get out of line, it will be too late to put on a white cape. You live among the outcasts, you subject yourself to this sort of things. On the other hand, monks are less likely to put us into this situation in the first place. That is what I am talking about.

As for his loyalty, I did say that the Adjutant background has unmatched loyalty as a defining characteristic. But that loyalty is first and foremost to the Prince. He isn't going to roll over for the sects or any master he meets just because they train him. How that changes, or whether it changes at all, will be up to you guys.

He would be much more useful to the prince alive and intact, he should know this much. The way he conducted himself was just alien to me.

Not that my arguments matter too much right now, E is on the track to losing and I know most of the people here will go for B or C, which aren't bad choices given our stats, but passing up the opportunity for truly freeforming this will be something I will regret in the future.

The tally so far (updated 08 Sept 16:35 GMT):

Smashing Axe B>E>D
Kashmir Slippers B
Kipeci B
ERYFKRAD E>C>B
Baltika9 E>D>C
Azira B
XenomorphII C>B (counted as B)
Zero Credibility E>B>C
Ifeex B>C>E
TOME D>E>A (counted as E)
Lambchop19 E>B
Nevill E
Jester E>B
LWC1996 B
ScubaV B
Bloodshifter C>B>E (counted as B)
Tigranes B
Stygian Lurker E
Esquilax E
Absinthe E>D
Storyfag B
Cassidy E

B - 11
E - 11

Keep up the good fight. If you make your arguments convincing enough, people will listen.

 

[treave]

He would be much more useful to the prince alive and intact, he should know this much. The way he conducted himself was just alien to me.

Perhaps it may be easier to understand if you compare his behavior to samurai retainers committing harakiri even when there is a better option? Of course, it's not the exact same thing, but the mindset has some similarity. It is supposed to be a strange behavior at any rate. It's not meant to be normal (by modern Western standards at least).

 

[Zero Credibility]

I was fully into walking into the wilderness and being our own man, but I do not like what I hear about unorthodox sects.

I want our guy to have just the right amount of cunning to give him the edge in combat and avoid harm: attack first, strike silently from the back if the situation warrants it, kick the enemy in the nuts - these kind of small things that help staying alive and in good health more than they help acquiring a heroic image. I definitely don't want to maim and mutilate people casually, become insane in a bid for power, or practice techniques that rely heavily on those. I also think that bandits, brigands and assassins would not be the best choice of company for the boy if he is opposed to rape, pillage and murder, which I think he is.

Now that I've read treave's clarification, I think that the contempt unorthodox fighting styles get from the more upright parts of the world is well-deserved. Would not want to go near those. Incorporating some mild elements from these styles would benefit us greatly, though, but to allow us to pick and choose we must rely on one of the more orthodox techniques to become the basis of our own style.

Not voting yet.

I voted E but I'm also hoping for more or less the same things as you - unorthodox but practical techniques that compliment our existing skills (unarmed, sword, stealth). I certainly didn't vote E to for poison, maiming, rape, pillage and murder. I'm thinking of an honourable but independent ronin helping the downtrodden or a something similar (and a secret agent of the Prince of course) - surely nothing prevents us from being one just because we don't join any sect right now. There must be some decent people among the independents - let's find them if we can.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Also, I'm on the fence on whether to call on E or not.

In fact, flip to E>C>B.

 

[Smashing Axe]

I may flop back to B>E>D, since I would like some grounding as a base. But then again... Learning a whole range of terrible techniques and transforming them into something useful is very tempting.

 

[Jester]

E > B
B because ying and yang techs and that sound less orthodox than rest options. E should be interesting.

That's actually a rather interesting narrative.

I agree.

Floped to free forming

edit. When i think about it our main objective is to investigate and E gives us best start for that without penalty for orthodoxy.

 

[LWC1996]

Was lurking when this LP started, but decided to sign up as a) wuxia is one of my fave genre, and b) the story became more interesting, I had to come out of lurking.

My vote is B

I've always like Wudang sect anyways...and also coz Huashan is not in contention at all in terms of votes here.. LOL! Other than that superficial reason, I picked an orthodox sect because Jing is still a 14 year old kid sent out into the world on his own. And lest we forget, the kid has never had to slum with the common people outside of the palace. For all that he's been a peasant child taken in by the Emperor, he was brought up in the lap of luxury along with the Prince. Can you imagine what happens to teenagers who have no street smarts at all out in the world alone? Bad things happen to them. They get bullied, they get conned, or they get killed.

And, I'm pretty sure that the martial arts training Jing has received in the palace, is really basic swordplay, horseback riding, archery. All civilized type of trainings rather than the specialized ones like ones sects will provide. Basic foundation to continue on to the next level. To learn all these specialized moves, one really has to put in effort and time to master it. Jing is not some child prodigy, and what makes anyone here think that he will encounter a nice hermit who will have noble intentions taking the kid in? There are bad people in this world, more so in the complicated unstable wuxia world. There is no easy way to mastering moves in the wuxia world. There's always the shortcut of stealing the sacred kungfu books of the sect(s) itself... Pointless though if one does not master the basics.

And as for some arguments about not being able to do your own martial arts style if they study under the orthodox sect, you are wrong. You can develop your own martial arts style once you've mastered and understood the sects kungfu. Kungfu is pretty flexible actually. It's like you don't know how to bake a basic cake, right? But when you've mastered the basic cake, you can experiment with chocolates, apples, pineapples etc. Kungfu is like that. You need to master the basics first before you try and adapt your own style into it.

 

[treave]

Just because I say it's interesting doesn't mean I'm going to carry it out, mind you. I think it'll need some work to fit in the LP because throwing a bad mish-mash of techniques together is recipe for losing every match until the end of the game where you finally become a broken character. It'll have to be approached with care - meaning that I would have find a way to let you have the types of techniques that could be put together for such a purpose, and think up the combinations. Could be done...

Interestingly, the Goat Adjutant was my planned archetype for such a fighter. Not to say that the Tiger can't do it (he's a gifted martial artist after all), but the insanely high intelligence and perception of the Goat Adjutant plus his natural eccentricism and practiced disdain for orthodoxy just lends itself really well to collecting techniques and combining them in an unorthodox way to counter the orthodox moves practiced by the major sects. He wouldn't be the strongest, but he would be a very technical specialist.

I find it rather strange that it wasn't even in the running back then, if we're so gung-ho about being creative and pragmatic eccentrics right now.

 

[LWC1996]

Just because I say it's interesting doesn't mean I'm going to carry it out, mind you.

Interestingly, the Goat Adjutant was my planned archetype for such a fighter. Not to say that the Tiger can't do it (he's a gifted martial artist after all), but the insanely high intelligence and perception of the Goat Adjutant plus his natural eccentricism and practiced disdain for orthodoxy just lends itself really well to collecting techniques and combining them in an unorthodox way to counter the orthodox moves practiced by the major sects.

I find it rather strange that it wasn't even in the running back then, if we're so gung-ho about being creative and pragmatic eccentrics right now.

Hee. I was actually rooting for the Goat Doctor. It was a catchy name. LOL! And I do like the idea of the "Save One, Kill One."

 

[ScubaV]

You'll find out why in the coming updates. Perhaps earlier, perhaps later, depending on where you go. It's nothing to do with willpower or strength, but more to do with your terrible luck.

Situs Inversus?

Like Smashing Axe says, I think we need a good base to build from before we start accumulating a mish-mash of techniques. Presumably even with E we'd have some choices, much like with Huluzi, but how can we decide which ones will have the best synergy if we don't have something to synergize with? Unarmed is always useful and we have built-in sword skill. I'll vote for the Bestest choice.

 

[Nevill]

Can you imagine what happens to teenagers who have no street smarts at all out in the world alone? Bad things happen to them. They get bullied, they get conned, or they get killed.

Getting bullied I wouldn't worry about - our tiger has fangs and is not afraid to show them, and besides, no bullying compares to what we've already been through. Getting killed - might as well get used to the risk, this being wuxia and all. What I am most afraid of is indeed being tricked into doing something shady up until the point where there would be no easy way out. Our character, after all, is pretty simple-minded.

To learn all these specialized moves, one really has to put in effort and time to master it. Jing is not some child prodigy, and what makes anyone here think that he will encounter a nice hermit who will have noble intentions taking the kid in? There are bad people in this world, more so in the complicated unstable wuxia world. There is no easy way to mastering moves in the wuxia world. There's always the shortcut of stealing the sacred kungfu books of the sect(s) itself... Pointless though if one does not master the basics.

My concerns exactly. But considering the genre, there is ALWAYS a lone old master who will teach us a powerful, forbidden technique. It is only a matter of finding him.

The way I see it, it breaks down to this:
B - playing it safe
E - high risk, unknown rewards, interesting narrative

I am happy with either. But let's be honest here, the reasong we are sticking to this LP is the narrative. Might as well give the writer a carte blanche and see what he comes up with.

I find it rather strange that it wasn't even in the running back then, if we're so gung-ho about being creative and pragmatic eccentrics right now.

Pragmatic in a fighting sense. Me, I don't find the cynical outlook of a Goat Adjutant all that amusing.

 

[Azira]

Prince Shun has given us a letter of admission to one of the major orthodox sects, and a majority of people is actually voting to ignore this fact?

I thought the loyalty towards Shun was unquestionable, how will we justify this choice? I know it's one of the available choices, it just seems so out of character to me that I wouldn't even consider it at this point.

Would we be able to use said letter of admission later? And would it help us any? I assume the most value we can get from that thing is if we use it as soon as possible.

Folks, remember, we can always travel the road later. Let's get some proper techniques taught to us first, so we can defend ourself should psycho-bitch show up again. Spitting on the favour prince Shun has shown us by not using his letter of admission seems too childish, even for a teenage brat like our protagonist.