Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

[LP CYOA] 傳

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Flopping to B. I just can't let myself vote so contrary to Jing's character: no way he'll kill someone out of fearing him as a threat.
We're talking about Jing: trained to kill to defend his prince from birth by knifing helpless prisoners. I understand if that's not what you want him to do, but saying it isn't in his character is ridiculous. This guy is actively working against the prince. It isn't that he may become a threat: He is a threat to the prince and will probably be one to our mission as well.

Besides, if not for our intervention, the guy would have died anyway. His life is in our hands to do as we see fit and he is working with our enemy. His funeral.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,237
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Flopping to B. I just can't let myself vote so contrary to Jing's character: no way he'll kill someone out of fearing him as a threat. And, well, we really do need the info out of him. Will it be loaded with lies, hell yeah, but there will be some kernels of truth here and there.
To the prince? We're talking about Jing: trained to kill to defend his prince from birth by knifing helpless prisoners. I understand if that's not what you want him to do, but saying it isn't in his character is ridiculous. This guy is actively working against the prince. He is a threat.
Do you KNOW that he's working actively against the prince? For all you know, he might be acting on ShulgiShun's direct orders.
Jing is not trained to be a merciless killer. He's trained to kill without hesitation if need be. Not the same thing.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
No, it's true that we have no evidence about this guy's allegiance at all. Only wild speculation for both sides, so that's not factoring into my decision right now. What I mean is, if Jing sees this guy as a threat to the prince, I really don't see him thinking "Imma kill him now because I don't think I can do it later" like a wuss. More like "oh, lookie here, a potential enemy of the prince that just masqueraded as an orthodox swordsman to ambush the Fire Cult. Time to play questions, Yunzi, bring in the whip!" Nobody fucks with Tigerbro's bros and gets away that easy.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Flopping to B. I just can't let myself vote so contrary to Jing's character: no way he'll kill someone out of fearing him as a threat. And, well, we really do need the info out of him. Will it be loaded with lies, hell yeah, but there will be some kernels of truth here and there.
To the prince? We're talking about Jing: trained to kill to defend his prince from birth by knifing helpless prisoners. I understand if that's not what you want him to do, but saying it isn't in his character is ridiculous. This guy is actively working against the prince. He is a threat.
Do you KNOW that he's working actively against the prince? For all you know, he might be acting on ShulgiShun's direct orders.
Jing is not trained to be a merciless killer. He's trained to kill without hesitation if need be. Not the same thing.
Duh: Shun sent us out because he had no one else he could trust. That's why we're on this mission to begin with. If this guy were working for Shun, he wouldn't have needed us to find and infiltrate this group at all.

The guy is working for the prince's rival AND is part of the group that tried to assassinate the prince. If we let him live, he could compromise our identity and screw us down the line. It IS necessary to kill him.

edit: I'll bet this is old man Theseus rearing his ugly head. ;)
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
What are you basing this on?
Hey, why stop there? Why don't we just get Shun to ship us a boat full of money and hookers while we're at it? *sigh* treave, what do you say? Is Shun our trump card that can/will fix this mess permanently should negotiation be successful?

Not publicly, but he'd appreciate having a group of well-armed and trained men he can call on. To that end he can pull some strings, if you manage or want to contact him. If you haven't been sitting idle for three years, he hasn't either. Let's just say ascending to the throne without laying any groundwork in politics and connections is horrendously retarded and your friend is anything but that.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,237
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Man, you really think that a person in Princebro's position would pin his entire hopes on one bro of questionable means? If Princebro is half as competent as he appears, he is bound to have a backup plan or two. Hell, WE might be his backup plan.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Good point, however, given the fact that we are coresponding with him and this IS the entire reason we are out here, I'd think he'd have let us know if he had already found the damn group by now and that, "oh yeah, that one guy that's been working for my rival since you were a kid is working for me now. Try not to fuck up his mission, wingus."
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,237
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Good point, however, given the fact that we are coresponding with him and this IS the entire reason we are out here, I'd think he'd have let us know if he had already found the damn group by now and that, "oh yeah, that one guy that's been working for my rival since you were a kid is working for me now. Try not to fuck up his mission, wingus."
His odds'd be better keeping such plans as hush-hush as he can. As much as he trusts us, his position is tenuous enough for him to play things close.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Uh, yeah, so communicating with the exile is fine, but telling him about a plan that he is already involved in and may screw up if he doesn't know about is bad?

Just talking to us would be bad for him. If he's willing to contact us at all, you can bet he trusts that the communication won't be discovered.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
You mean this?
You can only watch the Imperial Palace from afar in Chang’an. You wonder if Shun is there. You have heard troubling rumours when you reached the capital; apparently the army has been sent out to pacify the northwest border. You were sure that your visit to the Ashina was to prevent anything like this from happening. Still, you had no time to linger in Chang’an to find out more – you had to catch the next boat down the Grand Canal to reach Luoyang in time for the tournament. Unfortunately the caravan had overturned halfway, forcing you to hike the remainder of the journey. At least there were no bandits this time.

You have time to visit one of the Imperial retreats on the outskirts of the city before you left, however. Once upon a time, Shun and you would come here every year. In the absence of the Imperial family, the place is lightly guarded. Even in the day-time you found it easy to sneak over the walls. You make your way to the back of a familiar old building.

As expected, you find Shun’s messages carved into a wooden pillar in your mutual secret code. You have been away for more than two years now, going on three. There were two messages, one for each year he visited.

After translation, the first one read that everything was fine at the palace, and that he hoped you were fine too. Choosing to wander off was a choice that worried him, as he would not know how you ended up. He carved this as a means to settle his mind as he can only hope you would come across it some day. He regretted agreeing to let you run off instead of insisting you go to a proper, safe school.

The second one read almost the same, though he added that he had heard some vague rumours of a person with your name from some wandering pugilists. He hoped that it was truly you, though he dared not wish for too much lest your jinx is doubled. The message is rather weathered, so you expect that Shun will come here soon to carve his third.

Taking out your dagger, you leave a reply in code.

Your faithful servant is still alive. When we meet again, I’ll kick your ass with all my powerful techniques for being such a worrywart and not having faith in me.

That is the last thing you had to do in Chang’an. Your next stop is Luoyang, and the Young Tigers Martial Arts Tournament.
Dude, that would be the worst place to put down info like that. Hell, he didn't even know if we'd come by to read it, so we're definitely not 'corresponding.'
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Sure we are. He'd just need to write something in code. Even a hint would be better than just letting us wander in and fuck up his plan that's already proceeding without us.

Taking out your dagger, you leave a reply in code.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Duh: Jue sent us out because he had no one else he could trust. That's why we're on this mission to begin with. If this guy were working for Jue, he wouldn't have needed us to find and infiltrate this group at all.

The guy is working for the prince's rival AND is part of the group that tried to assassinate the prince. If we let him live, he could compromise our identity and screw us down the line. It IS necessary to kill him.

I think that you meant Shun. What we can conclude is that this man serves Grand Eunuch Li. However, what we don't know is whether the eunuch is allied with the Prince, or with some other faction due to the constantly shifting nature of alliances that comes with court intrigue. You can't conclude either way if this guy has the same interests as the Prince because Jing is an outsider who doesn't have any idea about the inner workings of the Imperial Court.

The crux of the situation is this: if this guy is a high-ranking member of the Black Dragon Society and the interests of his superiors are aligned with Shun's, then keeping him alive is optimal. If the interest of his superiors is against Shun, then keeping him alive means that we are in very deep shit. Killing him is of course the safer, more rational choice; even if the Grand Eunuch is allied with the Prince, killing this operative would allow us to keep our anonymity at the cost of depriving Shun of an important agent that would have helped him out a lot. If Li and Shun are working together, killing this agent might fuck up Princebro's plans.

So basically, we're taking a gamble either way. We don't really know whether this guy's interests are aligned with ours; they might be, and they might not be.

Good point, however, given the fact that we are coresponding with him and this IS the entire reason we are out here, I'd think he'd have let us know if he had already found the damn group by now and that, "oh yeah, that one guy that's been working for my rival since you were a kid is working for me now. Try not to fuck up his mission, wingus."

How would we know anyways? We've only kept brief correspondence with Shun through secret messages and we aren't privy to the sort of political wheeling-and-dealing that he's neck-deep in. We haven't seen the guy in three years and we have very little idea about what he's really doing.

Uh, yeah, so communicating with the exile is fine, but telling him about a plan that he is already involved in and may screw up if he doesn't know about is bad?

It's not a question of him needing to keep things hush-hush, it's a question of him not being able to relay sensitive information to us in the first place.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Sorry man, I don't buy it. By that same logic, he would warn us about any eunuchs working against him out in the world so we still have zero proof he is for or against the prince.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,237
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
A discussion of backup plans sounds like the kind of thing you'd best discuss face to face, with as little possibilities for leaks and possible. Plus, keeping each plan unaware of the other would ensure that they all work with equal dedication. I'm not going to speculate if Princebro is of such a mindset that sees the necessity of such an approach, but best keep the angle in mind.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Sure we are. He'd just need to write something in code. Even a hint would be better than just letting us wander in and fuck up his plan that's already proceeding without us.

Taking out your dagger, you leave a reply in code.

What do you expect him to do? Write up a detailed manifesto of his grand political machinations to some guy wandering in the woods? There's nothing that we can do to help him with court politics, our job is to see what the pugilistic sects are up to, it makes perfect sense that he wouldn't share that info to us; it seemed pretty irrelevant at the time.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Duh: Jue sent us out because he had no one else he could trust. That's why we're on this mission to begin with. If this guy were working for Jue, he wouldn't have needed us to find and infiltrate this group at all.

The guy is working for the prince's rival AND is part of the group that tried to assassinate the prince. If we let him live, he could compromise our identity and screw us down the line. It IS necessary to kill him.

I think that you meant Shun.
No, he did indeed mean Zhang Jue the Imperial Spymaster. Lambchop, you cracked the setting yet again.
:brodex:
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Best case, worst case:

Best case: We kill the guy and eliminate a threat.
Worst case: We kill the guy and he wasn't a threat.

This guy isn't going to be able to solve any problems on his own. He's old and is now weakened considerably from the ghost. At best he could be an informant - for the prince or his enemies. If we let him live, he could stab us in the back or hurt the prince. If we kill him, we've removed an informant for either the prince or his enemy. Worth the risk.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Sure we are. He'd just need to write something in code. Even a hint would be better than just letting us wander in and fuck up his plan that's already proceeding without us.

Taking out your dagger, you leave a reply in code.

What do you expect him to do? Write up a detailed manifesto of his grand political machinations to some guy wandering in the woods? There's nothing that we can do to help him with court politics, our job is to see what the pugilistic sects are up to, it makes perfect sense that he wouldn't share that info to us; it seemed pretty irrelevant at the time.
"You are no longer working alone. An old enemy is now an old friend. Seek him out among my enemies."
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,237
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Sure we are. He'd just need to write something in code. Even a hint would be better than just letting us wander in and fuck up his plan that's already proceeding without us.

Taking out your dagger, you leave a reply in code.

What do you expect him to do? Write up a detailed manifesto of his grand political machinations to some guy wandering in the woods? There's nothing that we can do to help him with court politics, our job is to see what the pugilistic sects are up to, it makes perfect sense that he wouldn't share that info to us; it seemed pretty irrelevant at the time.
"You are no longer working alone. An old enemy is now an old friend. Seek him out among my enemies."
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,237
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Sure we are. He'd just need to write something in code. Even a hint would be better than just letting us wander in and fuck up his plan that's already proceeding without us.

Taking out your dagger, you leave a reply in code.

What do you expect him to do? Write up a detailed manifesto of his grand political machinations to some guy wandering in the woods? There's nothing that we can do to help him with court politics, our job is to see what the pugilistic sects are up to, it makes perfect sense that he wouldn't share that info to us; it seemed pretty irrelevant at the time.
"You are no longer working alone. An old enemy is now an old friend. Seek him out among my enemies."
Which could be anyone from the duke, to the eunuch, to some other nobility.
Of course, if the message were something like-Bowl is pissed no more, then yeah.
We can't tell if he's worth the risk unless we know what his angle is.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
"You are no longer working alone. An old enemy is now an old friend. Seek him out among my enemies."

What old enemy? Which enemy do I seek him out among? This is extremely vague and I don't understand what conclusions we would be supposed to make from this, it might as well be gibberish. I'm still on A because I don't want to take the chance, but really, there is no reasonable way in which you'd expect Shun to tell us about the inner machinations of Court politics that could change pretty quickly depending on the situation.

But you are on to something when you were talking about the various scenarios, which is why I said that this situation reminded me of the Prisoner's dilemma.

In A:

Best Case: We kill an agent of Shun's enemy, allowing us to infiltrate the group without exposing ourselves.
Worst Case: We kill an agent of Shun's ally, possibly fucking up their plans in the process.

In B:

Best Case: We learn what's really going on, and since this guy is allied with Shun, we have a great in with the Black Dragon Society too.
Worst Case: This guy publicizes our true identity, leaving us fucked in both the orthodox world and the harsh unorthodox world, at best. Possibly, he comes after us when he's healthy again. This is really bad.

Obviously, B is higher-risk and if he's really got the same interests as ours, puts us better off. But the consequences of us being wrong are much, much higher for us than they are in A.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Best case, worst case:

Best case: We kill the guy and eliminate a threat.
Worst case: We kill the guy and he wasn't a threat.

This guy isn't going to be able to solve any problems on his own. He's old and is now weakened considerably from the ghost. At best he could be an informant - for the prince or his enemies. If we let him live, he could stab us in the back or hurt the prince. If we kill him, we've removed an informant for either the prince or his enemy. Worth the risk.
I don't think Jing subscribes to Inquisition-style Exterminatus "Kill everyone, let the Emprah sort them out" thinking. Let me rephrase that:
Best case scenario, we kill an enemy of shun and a high-ranking servant of Li.
Worst case scenario, we kill a useful resource of Shun's that infiltrated the BDS and is working against his enemies out in the open world. Besides them targeting Yunzi (which is just a personal gripe, no one touches our wolfsis), I admire the initiative as it makes both the pugilists and the Cultists look bad.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
I feel your mobile pain, bro.

Which could be anyone from the duke, to the eunuch, to some other nobility.
Of course, if the message were something like-Bowl is pissed no more, then yeah.
We can't tell if he's worth the risk unless we know what his angle is.
All it needs to be is a hint in case we find him, so we don't kill him or something.

We don't get second chances in these Let's Plays. It's now or never. He's being trusted with an assassination mission on a target the enemy knows is a good fighter. That means they trust him. At best, he could be Shun's oh-so-secret ace in the hole informant, but I doubt it as there's no evidence. It's worth the risk to eliminate the threat now before it bites us - and Shun - in the ass in the future.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
But you are on to something when you were talking about the various scenarios, which is why I said that this situation reminded me of the Prisoner's dilemma.

In A:

Best Case: We kill an agent of Shun's enemy, allowing us to infiltrate the group without exposing ourselves.
Worst Case: We kill an agent of Shun's ally, possibly fucking up their plans in the process.

In B:

Best Case: We learn what's really going on, and since this guy is allied with Shun, we have a great in with the Black Dragon Society too.
Worst Case: This guy publicizes our true identity, leaving us fucked in both the orthodox world and the harsh unorthodox world, at best. Possibly, he comes after us when he's healthy again. This is really bad.

Obviously, B is higher-risk and if he's really got the same interests as ours, puts us better off. But the consequences of us being wrong are much, much higher for us than they are in A.
Again, you say it better than I ever could.:bro:

My thinking exactly - except for the fact that I'm not sure where everyone is getting that he's secretly Shun's man. Name one piece of solid evidence that would warrant the dangerous gamble above.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom