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TOME

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Think it from Yunzi's POV. Last time she tried to help, right after the arrow had hit, Jing told her to run away and went after the bad guys by himself. So why does she think she needs to protect Jing this time? We might not outright die in this fight, but if we are hurt it will slow us down and allow that tracking party to catch us.
 

Nevill

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TOME said:
So why does she think she needs to protect Jing this time?
Where does this ridiculous notion that we ask her to protect us come from?
We ask her to subdue Changfeng. If anything, Yunzi herself wouldn't want us to interfere, because it would tarnish her victory.
 
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Baltika9

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:hmmm:
Yeah, because we were running at 60mph and escorting a valuable asset, Jing went to do some delaying. Everyone was doped up on adrenaline and didn't really care one way or the other so long as everyone lived. She may not even have noticed it. On the other hand, Yunzi is spoiling for a fight with Changfeng, was from the first time we mentioned the woman's name in fact:
“This Liu Chanfeng,” says Yunzi, “She’s the one that attacked us a few years back, right?” There is a slight gleam in her eyes; one more of excitement than vengeance – you know that feeling. Having been beaten rather soundly by the woman before, you would be pleased to test your skills against her one more time… though you might not be in the best condition to do so. She likely feels the same, though you cannot rule out that she would also be curious about the woman's role in the assault on the Ashina tribe. You nod.
With Changfeng's current condition, I'm certain A has a solid chance of success.

Why the Yunzi hate, man?
 

Esquilax

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I take it if we bondage and then tentacle rape her we'll get a -10 with Yu...and everyone else.

We should try to be smooth.

Won't work like that, I'm afraid. Chanfeng isn't the most calm and rational person even at the best of times, and this is definitely not the best of times. It'll come down to us being able to push Yunzi into subduing Chanfeng, which should be easy since Chanfeng is in bad shape due to her imprisonment and Yunzi really wants to see where she stands in relation to her old rival. But this is much better than the alternative - which is having all of us split up and Yu following Chanfeng into Youxia City.

We already got the infor mation we needed from her. Our entire purpose of finding her has been fulfilled. I see no reason why we should give a shit about anything that she does. I don't see anything that would help us by fighting her.

Again, with A, Jing doesn't give a fuck about Chanfeng, he's doing it for Xiahou Yu. Chanfeng hit his pressure points because she knew that Yu would follow her, so the logical answer here is to prevent her from leaving to begin with. He was pleading with her not to leave for Youxia City, but from knowing the guy well, we understand that his emotions are going to override his better judgment and that he's going to follow her regardless of what we have to say.

Think it from Yunzi's POV. Last time she tried to help, right after the arrow had hit, Jing told her to run away and went after the bad guys by himself. So why does she think she needs to protect Jing this time? We might not outright die in this fight, but if we are hurt it will slow us down and allow that tracking party to catch us.

I'm actually doing this in part because we need Yu to strategize and keep us a few steps ahead of our pursuers:

As expected, Xiahou Yu had successfully freed Liu Chanfeng and met up with you in the woods. The five of you, including Liu’s apprentice, had put a fair amount of distance between yourselves and the fortress before being forced to stop and rest; the night was not getting any younger, and to continue moving would only worsen everyone’s fatigued condition. You decided to take that chance to question the woman you had come here for.
...
Your gambit worked; their pursuit slowed down though it did not cease. You rejoin the others at a small cabin south of the fortress, near Shennong Forest; Xiahou Yu had pointed out the gathering location should any of you had gotten lost. Finally you could rest.

Xiahou Yu set up a safehouse for us in case one of us got lost, and he managed to get out with the help of the ghost-umbrella he had on him. Pretty clever of him to think of all that, isn't it? We really need a guy with his foresight and skill at planning long-term, because our character is bad at that shit. We have no close ties to any powerful sects and quite a few enemies, so every friend we have is precious. For that reason, I want to do anything I can to prevent him from leaving us right now.

Basically, I feel that keeping our party together is important for the next little while.

As for Yunzi, as others have mentioned, she's not doing this to protect Jing; she just wants to kick Chanfeng's ass. It's not going to be hard to convince Yunzi to do so. And considering the weakened state that Chanfeng is in, I'm quite confident that Yunzi will be able to handle her. If Chanfeng weren't already exhausted and weak from imprisonment, I'd err on the side of caution, but that's not the case.
 

TOME

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I don't hate Yunzi. I just don't believe we will be magically left outside the battle. We are trying to stop her same as Yunzi. Why do you think Changfeng will leave Jing alone and not attack him first?
 

Baltika9

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Because Yunzi is faster than us at our best, that's why. When we call in Yunzi, we just gotta sit back with Xiaoqi and pass the popcorn around.
 

Nevill

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Because we can't stop her. Yunzi can. So why would she do that? Out of spite?

Edit: I can't into words.
 
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TOME

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Why couldn't we stop her? And even if we couldn't, she doesn't know it. She is going to treat us as her enemy and that means palm attacks if she gets the chance. You seem to think Yunzi will do everything but when has it worked like that in these LPs?
 

Baltika9

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When Yu took care of the jailbreak and all we had to do was sit with the Hei brothers and keep 'em talking. That's just off the top of my head.

And a starved, exhausted Changfeng is < well-fed, uninjured Yunzi with a max AGI 11. And even if Changfeng goes for the kamikaze option, Jing isn't a punk, and he has swords.
 

TOME

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Yeah, because arrow in the eye and/or poison dart to lethal pressure point is considered a good thing where I'm from. I'm sure Yunzi could subdue Changfeng but i'm also sure there is a price for Jing to pay.
 

Nevill

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Yunzi will have to do the bulk of the work here, and she is capable of finishing it alone. Jing himself admits that he is not in a condition for a duel. I take it as a hint that he won't try to interfere, unless necessary.

We might catch a stray jab, if that is what you are worried about, but we won't be the main target.

Esquilax said:
Xiahou Yu set up a safehouse for us in case one of us got lost, and he managed to get out with the help of the ghost-umbrella he had on him. Pretty clever of him to think of all that, isn't it?
You forgot that he also provided Jing and Yunzi the means to escape the fortress by tricking Xiaoqi into meeting them. The guy really is a valuable asset to our team.
 

Baltika9

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Oh ffs, can we let go of the eye already? That was the price to pay for the reload, nothing less and nothing more:
I'm not giving any confirmation on what would have been, but you would also have a permanent stat hit there.

In the end I considered both options to be of equal worth in terms of advantages and disadvantages. So this path isn't as bad as it seems, and the road not taken isn't as good as you might think it is.
I'm pretty butthurt that we didn't send Jing off to prison to sing Johnny Cash and get into China's underworld, but all that's in the past.
And the poison dart was the result of Jing not being fast enough and us being retarded enough to smart-mouth the deadliest agent of the Secret Police, I'm pretty sure that this wouldn't have happened in the orginal choice between the two.
 

TOME

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Oh I'm not butthurt about the eye, I just used it to demonstrate that Yu's godly int and Yunzi's godly agi won't save us every time. And you said it yourself, Jing isn't fast enough to dodge poison darts but now you are saying Jing doesn't need to be because Yunzi will dodge those for us?
 

Baltika9

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I'm saying he won't need to because Changfeng has about 0.00001% chance of getting past Yunzi's inhuman AGI to get within striking distance of Jing, and then she has to count on Jing being a total idiot to just stand there and take it, instead of blocking or drawing one (or both) of his swords.
 

Fangshi

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Well we should also factor in the general approach Jing and co took to the BDS. I mean we just walked in the front door, if Yu had, had more time to plan he probably could have come up with something better but given the resources and time frame he had it went fairly well I think.

Does Chanfeng even have weapons on her right now, I mean we just dragged her out of jail she probably does not have darts or the like to hit us with. Now Xiaoqi does have equipment and may be a problem but we just don't know her well enough to know what she will do (could be anything from covering her master to trying to stop the fight).

Now sure there are risks with A, Jing could get further injured, Yunzi could get injured, maybe we could wind up killing Chanfeng, but given Chanfeng's state I think we should be fine. She is more likely to try and escape then to try and kill us, (something that would take time and effort even in our weakened state, Jing won't fall to a single punch as we are resistant or outright immune to many of her techniques) which is why Yunzi needs to work quickly and a lot will depend on what, if anything, Xiaoqi does.

Still if we do nothing we in all likelihood lose Yu, since I can't think of a way to stop him without violence (he has chased her half way across the country already, and managed to get himself enslaved in the process, Youxia city will not deter him). If they have to go there and stir up the hornet's nest by freeing a bunch of slaves then they will need a better plan then "charge in, killing people" which seems to be Chanfeng's MO. She may not want to admit it but Yu (and his ghost girl) can help her and can increase her chances of success, for both their sakes (and ours, we need a good tactician) they need to sort this out now rather then when Yu is checking ever bar and hideout in Youxia city for her.
 

Nevill

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Oh ffs, can we let go of the eye already?
No, we can't. We'll take it out and put in in a jar, because maybe it can still be saved! It worked for The Nameless One!

Fangshi said:
I mean we just walked in the front door, if Yu had, had more time to plan he probably could have come up with something better but given the resources and time frame he had it went fairly well I think.
Yu did his part perfectly. It was not his fault Gao Ying showed up early.

TOME said:
And you said it yourself, Jing isn't fast enough to dodge poison darts but now you are saying Jing doesn't need to be because Yunzi will dodge those for us?
...What?

We caught a poisoned dart because it was Jing that Gao Ying was interested in. He let Yunzi go without even trying to stop her, we were his main target. And now Yunzi will be the main target of Changfeng. How are the two situations even comparable? That's assuming you didn't mean 'poisoned darts' literally, because as far as I know, you don't get to keep weapons when you are thrown in a dungeon.

Fangshi said:
She may not want to admit it but Yu (and his ghost girl) can help her and can increase her chances of success, for both their sakes (and ours, we need a good tactician) they need to sort this out now rather then when Yu is checking ever bar and hideout in Youxia city for her.
Judging by their conversation, Changfeng herself does not hold much hope for the success of the operation, else she would have allowed Yu to come with her. As icy as she may be, she does care about him.
 
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Fangshi

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Baltika9 said:
After Yu goes on a pub crawl there, there won't be a Youxia City

:lol:

Not just the bars when he lets the beast out he will hit up every brothel in town..... twice. The prostitutes will need a weeks break at least, the whole economy of the city will shut down and Yu will get enslaved again, I don't even want to know what we will have to do buy his freedom this time.
 

Nevill

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Fangshi said:
the whole economy of the city will shut down
That's how you lay siege to the city!

Fangshi said:
and Yu will get enslaved again
He'll plan the breakout from the inside. It's brilliant!

...Let's go to Wudang again!
 

Esquilax

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Not just the bars when he lets the beast out he will hit up every brothel in town..... twice. The prostitutes will need a weeks break at least, the whole economy of the city will shut down and Yu will get enslaved again, I don't even want to know what we will have to do buy his freedom this time.

Assassinating the secret police chief wouldn't be enough to settle the debt that Yu would rack up with Du Yao; we'd probably have to kill the Emperor at that point to free him.
 

treave

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I suppose I'll call it for A then.

Just be aware that being physically weakened doesn't always mean her inner strength is also weakened to a similar extent. Given the current internal injuries that Jing has, getting hit by Liu Chanfeng's Yuhua Duqing Palm will aggravate his wounds, and perhaps cause possible permanent disability, if not actually death.

In other words, just because you took her attacks and didn't get any lasting harm doesn't mean you can do so now. You tanked one from Xiaoqi to little effect, but her neigong is less powerful than Chanfeng's, you had use of your own neigong then, and you were in the peak of your health. Stats reduction isn't all there is to an injury.
 

treave

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Nah. Jing knows better than to dive into a fight against Liu Chanfeng at the moment. Just explaining that it was a rather risky choice to take.
 

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