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Nevill

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Joined
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Messages
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
treave said:
“You could scatter amongst the villages, hide yourselves there… no, that might not work.” You catch your mistake quickly. As far as you know, Shun had come here to exterminate the Wudu Cult.

That meant only one thing – if the Wudu members hid amongst the people, the Tang army would operate on the assumption that the villagers were harbouring enemies to the throne.

They would launch a real campaign of extermination. Pulling back on your oft-forgotten knowledge of politics, you manage to remember some important facts, and realize that this would be easybecause it was Guizhou. The local population in this particular region of Guizhou was largely Miao, and there had always been proposals for settlement of the area with actual Han bandied about amongst the officials.
I am not sure I caught this. Why can't Wudu people hide among the villagers? Because it puts the populace at risk? Or because they are of different ethnicity than the local populace, and it would never work? Or the populace being not Han makes it easier to issue an Exterminatus on the area? Or is it because the local Han would give them away?

there had always been proposals for settlement of the area with actual Han bandied about amongst the officials.
What exactly are the ramifications of this line?

We don't have much to tell the prince, except that we are here, so I'd rather not go to him first.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
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Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Nevill, the Wudu Cult can't hide among the villagers because the government will kill every single person there just to be on the safe side. They operate under the old principle of "death solves all problems; no man, no problem" so if they simply exterminate everyone there, then they are bound to kill off a bunch of Wudu Cult members. The ramifications of the latter line, to me, imply that there are certain interests within the Court that probably want to displace the native population in the area so that Han can settle there. This seems like a great pretext for some genocide, in fact.

I don't like A so much because our usefulness in this situation lies in the fact that we can act as a liaison between Shun and the Wudu Cult. If Shun knows that we're here and that we have an in with the Cult, that might allow him to devise a plan to avoid this extermination campaign.

As for the B choices, B1 is obviously idiotic, not worth dwelling on further. B2 might work, but it would require some incredibly crafty speech choices. Cao'er is obviously going to be much better than any Imperial Doctor, but with how tense the situation is, how are we going to convince these people to let a couple of random wanderers who could be spies or with the Cult work on their soldiers? B3 actually seems crazy enough that it just might work; even the meticulous and watchful Gao Ying might give us a chance to prove our identity in this situation. However, it could also blow our cover in the pugilistic world completely.
 
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TOME

Cuckmaster General
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
1,820
Yeah, no point going to the prince since we have nothing to tell him. We could find out their attack plans to save the Wudu cult, but without finding leads to the real poisoner we would be undermining Shun's influence.

A.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Esquilax said:
This seems like a great pretext for some genocide, in fact.
Oh, wow. I guessed the situation was bad, but that is on a whole new level.

Well, then. We either attempt to contact the prince and try to gauge how (or if) we can help him in this situation, or we go straight to the Wudu Cult and try to find a solution on our own. If the prince has a plan, it certainly does not include us, though having someone to pass the message to the Cult might come in handy for him, if he has something to tell them. Then again, if he needed that, wouldn't it be easier to send an agent to get captured by them in a forest?

He might devise a new plan based specifically on our presence here, but I am trying to think of what can we do for him that he otherwise can't, and so far, I have surprisingly little. Anyone there with a better imagination care to help me out?

Since I am not worried about him in the first place, this leaves me with A.
 

Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
We were cast out from Shun's side to look into the unorthodox sects that might cause him harm. I'd rather we go through with that than pretend we'd taken the secret service route from the start. I'd rather that we spend time with Chi Quilin anyway, now that we've taken B.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Kipeci said:
I'd rather that we spend time with Chi Quilin anyway, now that we've taken B.
You are right, of course. Too much reasoning when you can just say "Jing is not a faggot" and be done with it.

It is even in the update.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
4,833
Yeah, no point going to the prince since we have nothing to tell him. We could find out their attack plans to save the Wudu cult, but without finding leads to the real poisoner we would be undermining Shun's influence.

But we do have something to tell him; Xu Jing is here and reporting for duty. This might change his plans considerably. He's a smart guy, and we know his hand has been forced into committing to this campaign, but having us present might allow him new ways of maneuvering. I'm not particularly convinced that we can do much on the Cult's end; at this point they're preparing for a brutal government raid, so right now they're on the defensive. Tulu Huodu might get desperate and plan a preemptive strike to take Shun out, but I think that the situation would have to significantly deteriorate before that happens.

Well, then. We either attempt to contact the prince and try to gauge how (or if) we can help him in this situation, or we go straight to the Wudu Cult and try to find a solution on our own. If the prince has a plan, it certainly does not include us, though having someone to pass the message to the Cult might come in handy for him, if he has something to tell them. Then again, if he needed that wouldn't it be easier to send an agent to get captured by them in a forest?

He might devise a new plan based specifically on our presence here, but I am trying to think of what can we do for him that he otherwise can't, and so far, I have surprisingly little. Anyone there with a better imagination care to help me out?

Conduct diplomacy with the Wudu Cult, for one. Certain interests in the government have forced him to take this course of action. With knowledge of what the government response will be, we might be able to work out a deal with the Wudu Cult covertly. Also, if he knows we're around, Shun could make an effort to stall for more time to let us work before things get to the point of no return.

Alternatively, we could go full-Batman and kill whoever forced Shun's hand and take credit for the deed. It's okay, because we can take it. We're Tigerman.
 

Esquilax

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Joined
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Messages
4,833
No YOLOTIGERing this time!

Too late. If you wanted to postpone the inevitability of YOLOTIGERing, we should have either stuck around Emei to train or headed off with the Fire Cult. At this point, we are committed; if we hesitate and avoid YOLOTIGERing it'll actually be more dangerous than if we go full-speed ahead. The YOLOTIGER shall not be denied.
 

Nevill

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Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Esquilax said:
Tulu Huodu might get desperate and plan a preemptive strike to take Shun out, but I think that the situation would have to significantly deteriorate before that happens.
My bet is on the general leading the forces, Lu Bu. Shun is too well-guarded for that.

Esquilax said:
Also, if he knows we're around, Shun could make an effort to stall for more time to let us work before things get to the point of no return.
The only way I see to reverse the situation would be to clear Wudu name. The assault on the Emperor requires action, and the heads have to roll. Otherwise people would start to get ideas. I can see no other way to resolve this peacefully, but to point out a head that does not belong to the Wudu Cult, and collect or plant enough damning evidence for the people to believe it.

What else is on the table? Mass evacuation?
 

Rex Feral

Prophet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
1,300
I guess wherever we go, we could do some good about the situation.

If we go and meet Shun, we could postpone the attack until we get around on the situation.

If we go to the Wudu clan we might convince Qilin's uncle not to assassinate Shun, on the pretext that we could help build a bridge between the two sides and gather evidence against the Emperor's assassination by the Wudu.

Whatever we do however we are in a race against time, unless we convince both sides to stand by while leaving us to our investigation.
 

Elfberserker

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
1,540
Well, I feel about gambling righ now, so I vote for B2 for now.

If it's
successful we might meet Shu, general or both in friendly enviroment without nobody suspecting a thing. Between Cao'er and Jing we actually have pretty good stats for it. Unfortunately reality tends to agree with ideal result, so I expect Gao or other secret police guy recognizing us. We might to watch out other nobility members too, I think that there is bound to be few minor princes with dreams of glory in command level and they might actually recognize Jing. Despite the risk, I feel that letting Shu know that he has a possible method contacting wudu guys without rest of court could possible lead minimized bloodshed here.
 

Baltika9

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Messages
9,611
It seems to me that B3 is the fastest, most surefire way to get admitted to Shun. If we yell our name out, within one hour the whole garrison will know that Xu Jing, disciple of Zhang Jue, is in the house, soldiers are terrible gossips like that, and once Shun hears that name, well, not even Gao Ying can stop the meeting. Problem is, if word gets out that we've freely aided the government, then we will be considered as much of a joke in unorthodox circles as the BDS is, and I'm not willing to just up and blow our cover and potential for making contacts there just like that.
B1 is out of the question, a guy like Yorikawa could do it easily, but 5 stealth isn't too good for that. A seems pointless for diplomacy, since we already have Quilin working on that end and we can't bring anything to their table yet.

That leaves B2, which is pretty doable. We have the perfect cover with Cao'er being the best medic around, we know some stuff about medicine ourselves and we have the speech skills to bluff the guards. Once we get in there, it's just a matter of passing along a message to Shun. Hell, we can carve it onto a rock in our childhood code language and toss it into his chambers through a window.
 

Nevill

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
B2 is doable, I guess. The question is, why do you want to do it? We can't bring anything to the table here, either.

And Qilin is not really working on anything, she just learned about the news herself.

The case can be handled from either end. I'd rather stick with our position as prince's hidden ace, and I want to see how things are looking from Wudu's end. They have great opportunities for infiltration, maybe they know more about what befell the Emperor.
 
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Jester

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
1,493
Problem is, if word gets out that we've freely aided the government, then we will be considered as much of a joke in unorthodox circles as the BDS is, and I'm not willing to just up and blow our cover and potential for making contacts there just like that.
Depends if we will save the Wudu from extermination we would be rather a hero for unorthodox.

B1 sound stupid as Esq said, B2 its hard to tell if we will succed in getting to prince, B3 sound like good excuse for Shun i mean people would be interested what the hell disciple of Zhang Jue is doing here and excusing our involvement with "it would be shame if action of one stupid Snake prevent me from whispering tender words to Wudu heir" would be something i wish to see. A sound like highest possibility of finding out whet the hell happened.

Vote A>B3
 

Azira

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Messages
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Codex 2012
I wanted to go see the fire cult.. No love for them it seems. :(

Well, being here, I'm certain the crown prince can look after himself. I'm more interested in meeting this master poisoner. Should prove interesting.

A
 
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What we want to do here?
1. Stop attack on the Wudu
2. Keep our secret intact, or in the hands of people who can guard it properly
3. Make sure Shunbro is not murdered and doesn't lose face with the court (what sort of pansy Emperor-in-Waiting doesn't avenge his father's poisoner?)


A. You will follow Qilin all the way to the Wudu Cult. It is probably best that you speak with these expert poisoners and get an idea of what they plan to do about the impending assault, as well as their opinions on this poisoning. - The best option. Qillin give us a in with daddy Tulu, so we cut straight to the chase. The Wudu are clearly rather private people and good keepers of secrets, so I'm sure that if we help them, our secret is safe with Qillin (who already knows, more or less) and Tulu (who would want the Prince's agent to take out whoever poisoned the Emperor and blamed his sect). We could, for example, tell the Wudu to send somesort of miscellaneous parley note to Shun (bláblábláblá we aren't guilty someone did it please let us surrender glorious crown prince), but with our secret childhood code included somewhere, so we can tell Shun that we're here and we got high links to the Wudu leadership, so we can figure out without everyone and his mother catching wind of it, like that balless snake Gao Ying.

B. You travel to Chishui Town; the Tang fort is built right next to it, and the Crown Prince will likely be within it. You would like to find out what the military's plans are first, and Shun will probably be easier for you to persuade.

1. You will attempt to sneak into the fort under the cover of darkness, using your stealth skills to enter his lodgings undetected. - LOLNOPE, these guys are assaulting a fortress of sneaky poisoners, defenses are up to the wazoo and Gao Ying probably put nets in every window. We're gonna get pwned by Gao Ying here. B1 is retarded.

2. You and Cao’er will put on an act of being wandering, patriotic physicians to gain entry. You’ll try to contact Shun from there. - Might work, but they will probably send us to treat some soldiers and then we either will never be noticed or Gao Ying will pick us out, and then people either find out our true allegiance to Shun or we get killed.

3. You boldly declare your identity at the gates of the fort and request to see the Crown Prince. - Do you all want to scream "HEY GUYS I AM A SECRET GOVERNMENT AGENT SENT TO INFILTRATE THE PUGILISTIC SECTS" while we're here as well? They're not going to let a notable unpredictable apprentice of a mass murderer even get near the Crown Prince, wherever he wants it or not. This pretty much reveals our Secret Agent-ness to the entire world. Even if they decide to hire us as extra muscle, they won't deal with us through the prince and they will only reinforce his security, making meeting with or talking with him in private all the harder.

Voting A
 

TOME

Cuckmaster General
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
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But think of the fame we could get with B3. Xu Jing went to meet with Crown Prince and a day later the Prince and his army of 10000 men retreated with haste.
 

Nevill

Arcane
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Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
The Brazilian Slaughter said:
They're not going to let a notable unpredictable apprentice of a mass murderer even get near the Crown Prince, wherever he wants it or not.
This guarantees that the prince will hear of it, though. Then it is up to him.

Our goal is not to get to him, only to get noticed by him. He is smart enough to figure how to contact us by himself.

Oh, and B3 may be chalked up to our natural cockiness. If the prince ignores us, at least officially, it does not really say anything about our status as his secret agent.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Problem is, if word gets out that we've freely aided the government, then we will be considered as much of a joke in unorthodox circles as the BDS is, and I'm not willing to just up and blow our cover and potential for making contacts there just like that.
Depends if we will save the Wudu from extermination we would be rather a hero for unorthodox.
No, I honestly don't think it will work that way. If we're a known double agent, any street cred we have will be gone. No one likes snitches in that world and being a government double-agent is pretty much the definition of a snitch.
But think of the fame we could get with B3. Xu Jing went to meet with Crown Prince and a day later the Prince and his army of 10000 men retreated with haste.
:lol: Good one.

The reason I think getting in contact with Shun is our best option is twofold: this is a time-sensitive case, the army is pretty much waiting to find the hideout and start the massacre and with ten thousand men turning the whole countryside upside down, it will happen sooner rather than later. The Wudu's hideout is about a day away from here, the fortress is pretty much right there.
Second, in order for us to resolve this diplomatically, we'll need to establish contact between both sides ASAP. The sooner we can start feeding Shun information, the sooner he can start planning a peaceful resolution. We have Qilin within the Wudu Cult to get the information for us, she said that we'll be meeting up in one or two days in Chishui town
:“We should reach the gorge by tomorrow,” says Qilin. “Chishui Town is in another direction, but even closer. What do you plan to do? Do you want to come with me so I can introduce you to my father, or do you want to visit your beloved prince? If you are going to Chishui, I will meet up with you there after I check back home. It might take a day or two, though.”
The best thing we can do right now is establishing contact with Shun ASAP so Jing and Quilin can start working from both ends of the hostile force (kinda like Romeo and Juliet, amirite?). Being there to listen to Tulu Huodu's words that Quilin can relay to us just as easily won't make them any more or less true. If the Wudu really did it, then we can't trust any of them and if they didn't, well, our presence won't affect the truth one bit. In fact, as private as they are, the Wudu would probably feel uneasy discussing their private business with a government agent right there.
The Brazilian Slaughter, the reason I think B2 is the best option is because we have all the material for the perfect cover and the speech skills to bluff them. And if Gao Ying really is around, then he won't fire on us immediately after we told him that we work for Shun, he may in fact be willing to allow us to prove ourselves. B2 is our best option for establishing contact, I'm sure of that.
 

Rex Feral

Prophet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
1,300
What we want to do here?
1. Stop attack on the Wudu
2. Keep our secret intact, or in the hands of people who can guard it properly
3. Make sure Shunbro is not murdered and doesn't lose face with the court (what sort of pansy Emperor-in-Waiting doesn't avenge his father's poisoner?)


A. You will follow Qilin all the way to the Wudu Cult. It is probably best that you speak with these expert poisoners and get an idea of what they plan to do about the impending assault, as well as their opinions on this poisoning. - The best option. Qillin give us a in with daddy Tulu, so we cut straight to the chase. The Wudu are clearly rather private people and good keepers of secrets, so I'm sure that if we help them, our secret is safe with Qillin (who already knows, more or less) and Tulu (who would want the Prince's agent to take out whoever poisoned the Emperor and blamed his sect). We could, for example, tell the Wudu to send somesort of miscellaneous parley note to Shun (bláblábláblá we aren't guilty someone did it please let us surrender glorious crown prince), but with our secret childhood code included somewhere, so we can tell Shun that we're here and we got high links to the Wudu leadership, so we can figure out without everyone and his mother catching wind of it, like that balless snake Gao Ying.

B. You travel to Chishui Town; the Tang fort is built right next to it, and the Crown Prince will likely be within it. You would like to find out what the military's plans are first, and Shun will probably be easier for you to persuade.

1. You will attempt to sneak into the fort under the cover of darkness, using your stealth skills to enter his lodgings undetected. - LOLNOPE, these guys are assaulting a fortress of sneaky poisoners, defenses are up to the wazoo and Gao Ying probably put nets in every window. We're gonna get pwned by Gao Ying here. B1 is retarded.

2. You and Cao’er will put on an act of being wandering, patriotic physicians to gain entry. You’ll try to contact Shun from there. - Might work, but they will probably send us to treat some soldiers and then we either will never be noticed or Gao Ying will pick us out, and then people either find out our true allegiance to Shun or we get killed.

3. You boldly declare your identity at the gates of the fort and request to see the Crown Prince. - Do you all want to scream "HEY GUYS I AM A SECRET GOVERNMENT AGENT SENT TO INFILTRATE THE PUGILISTIC SECTS" while we're here as well? They're not going to let a notable unpredictable apprentice of a mass murderer even get near the Crown Prince, wherever he wants it or not. This pretty much reveals our Secret Agent-ness to the entire world. Even if they decide to hire us as extra muscle, they won't deal with us through the prince and they will only reinforce his security, making meeting with or talking with him in private all the harder.

Voting A

Good arguments. However Shun has been given 10 000 soldiers and has been tasked to exterminate the Wudu not to parley with them so I guess arranging negotiations between the two sides are out of the question. As well as messages between them. Plus we can't off the chance that General Lu Bu is the de facto leader here and that every official message to the Crown Prince goes through his hands, so the chance of Shun being oblivious to things that might happen around is rather high.

However should we find someone with high enough stealth that would be able to deliver a message from us that would be great. And I know they have someone like that around since one of the reasons we came here is to prevent an eventual poisoning, which would have been done by exactly someone who could get close to him. That person instead of delivering a poison could deliver a message.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Rex Feral said:
However should we find someone with high enough stealth that would be able to deliver a message from us that would be great.
You do not need stealth to poison someone, however. Best poisoners are those who can do so in plain sight. Their target may die several days after the fact.

Baltika9 said:
The sooner we can start feeding Shun information, the sooner he can start planning a peaceful resolution.
If we want to feed Shun information, we'd better get our hands on it, first.

Baltika9 said:
If the Wudu really did it, then we can't trust any of them and if they didn't, well, our presence won't affect the truth one bit.
Our presence there might affect their further course of actions just as our presence here might affect Shun's. They are running out of options there, and may turn to desperate actions.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Baltika9 said:
The sooner we can start feeding Shun information, the sooner he can start planning a peaceful resolution.
If we want to feed Shun information, we'd better get our hands on it, first.
We have Quilin handling the information and I trust her to come through on that end.
Baltika9 said:
If the Wudu really did it, then we can't trust any of them and if they didn't, well, our presence won't affect the truth one bit.
Our presence there might affect their further course of actions just as our presence here might affect Shun's. They are running out of options there, and may turn to desperate actions.
Exactly, which is why we need to split up across both sides and start the talks ASAP. Qilin brings the Wudu news that, hey, I have a way to open talks with the prince and this guy is over there pacifying them. We go into the fortress and get in contact with Shun and tell him that, hey, I can communicate with the Wudu through the heiress of their sect and things aren't really as they seem. I'll have more information for you in the next two days, so hold off on the Exterminatus. If we can placate both of them long enough to establish contact and start feeding information both ways, then that's perfect, but we need to do it as quickly as possible. Hence why I think B2 is our best option now.
 

Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Well ok, the Imperials are the aggressors here, while the Wudu are on the defensive, as I see it a couple of things can happen:

If we go with A we get introduced to Quilin's uncle and the higher ups and get their side of the story to take to Shun, the big risk is that the Imperials attack before we have a chance to meet with Shun, if they attack it is all over, we won't be able to negotiate at all, in that case (and this is going to sound bad) we should try to kill the heads of the Wudu to increase Shun's chances...

If we go with one of the B options a lot will hinge on actually talking to Shun and on the character of this Lu Bu fella, if he is a "rip ant tear" type then we may have to go around or through him. If he is a more reasonable/loyal sort maybe he can help us resolve this. The big advantage is that maybe we can delay the attack long enough to conduct negotiations between the Wudu and the Imperials. Possible negatives include getting completely sidelined, discovered by the secret police or having the Wudu attack the Prince (you know cut the head off the snake so to speak, kill the Prince and the General and they may have a chance) in which case we have to fight them off and protect Shun.

Possible paranoid ramblings: The conspirators may also stage an attack on the prince to ensure the two sides come to blows, if the assassins succeed then great Shun is out of the way, if they fail it is still "proof" of Wudu treachery and removes any chance to negotiate.

Edit: extra paranoid ramblings: The fact that Shun is a smart guy may also hurt us here. If the secret police/army contains agents of the pretenders they can use anything short of the complete annihilation of the Wudu against the prince. These are people accused of trying to murder his father, if he does not kill them all it can be spun to look like he is in league with them. "Maybe the young prince was unable to wait for his father's demise and decided to speed it up a litle..." they can say. Given how paranoid the Emperor is he may just listen and then Shun is done for. Now this is probably just paranoia but we may get to Shun only to have him tell us to go away, that what must be done, must be done and the the Wudu must die....

I really think we should go to Shun first since any attack is more likely to originate from there, I don't really like running back to the prince and falling back into our role as his tool but it seems to me it is the better of the two choices. Of the three B options B2 does seem the most likely to work, it does not blow our cover like B3 and it does not require out sneaking the Imperial police, camp guards and Shun's bodyguards. Cao'er and Jing can both pass as doctors (well Jing would be the assistant) fairly well, then we only have to pay attention to ways to get into Shun's compound/tents.
 
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Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Baltika9 said:
We have Quilin handling the information and I trust her to come through on that end.
What use is contacting Shun before you get that information, though?

Baltika9 said:
Qilin brings the Wudu news that, hey, I have a way to open talks with the prince and this guy is over there pacifying them.
Does she? Did we promise her that? Qilin herself is not convinced we came here to help her.

I believe this kind of thing requires our presence on the site. They are not exactly trusting.
 

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