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Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Hmmm....

Okay, so we have the sect heads and the Saint fighting the Temple Lord while the "armies" look on. The Cult has Quilin but they have orders not to kill her...

Alright with A we are pushing for a direct and glorious victory and it may just be possible that if everyone dogpiles the Temple Lord that we can in fact drop him but there really is nothing keeping his lieutenants from interfering except his orders. I can't see them standing back and waiting if it looks like he could die and I am not sure we could take him and his three lap dogs... We would have to play quick and dirty and hope we take his head off before something terrible happens. Additionally Quilin could die when the Cult unravels...

I just don't like B, we know where the Temple Lord stands now and that is right in our way. We go through him or around him but I see little point in playing his servant. Ideally we kill the man, here or some time in the future.

Of the C options I prefer C2 to C1. If we are going to leave the fight we may as well take the lesser fighters with us. It would reduce the chance of our side winning the big fight but it may not matter in the end and we could definitely use the help if we attack the Cult forces. If we do not go with A then our concern has to be our success not theirs. There is the concern that if we attack the man holding Quilin that we might get her killed. I do not think it is likely that they will purposely kill her but the chance of her being killed by accident is a definite possibility. Also the Fire Lord is very fast it seems, if he beats his opponents before we beat ours well we are dead I guess.

Now this may sound a bit cold but I don't think we can let worrying about Quilin impact our final decision. The only way to ensure that she is safe is to help the Cult win and let them take her but that is less than ideal. What we can do though is help ensure that the Cult loses this battle. At the moment the only thing holding back the overwhelming numbers of the Sects is Quilin as a hostage.

If we go with C2 then one way or another she will no longer be a hostage. If we free her we can then try and grab Yunzi and get the hell out of there before things spiral out of control.

If we fail and she dies... well then they no longer have a hostage and the Sects can attack and overwhelm them. We may even be able to use the chaos to get some revenge.

So A promises quick victory but with the downsides of endangering Quilin and possibly suffering from Cult intervention and of course we may all die.

B would keep Quilin safe but we would be reducing ourselves to the Temple Lord's lackey and seriously fuck that guy...

C would remove the Cult's hostage and put us up against enemies that are closer to our own power level. But it also endangers Quilin's life and again we may get ourselves or someone else killed.

Endangering Quilin's life seems to be a constant between A and C so we may as well put it to one side, we will probably get her killed either way... may as well try to crush the Cult while we are here.



No option is a sure thing but C2 seems the most likely to succeed so...

C2
 

Rex Feral

Prophet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
1,300
Shit. I did vote for C last time. Good thing A won.

As for the choices let's think about the possible outcomes for each

A - since we all gang on the Fire Lord I believe this is the choice with the highest chance of beating him. How that would translate to Qilin I don't know since I don't know on whose shoulders would their leadership fall. If it's Yunzi she might make it. If it's one of the Amesha Spenta she probably won't. So I guess the outcome would be: Fire Lord defeated, Qilin dead

B - now I'm not even considering this choice. What kind of a person turns against the one who just saved his life to side with the one whom he was saved from. This is far beyond retarded and low.

C1 - I guess we would go stealth so I don't think we will fight alone 3 Amesha Spentas, maybe just Vahista, maybe someone else. But I think this will be more of an intelligent rescue than a head first one.

C2 - here we will probably get a team fight between us, BJ, Song Linshu, Murond Yandi vs 3 Amesha Spentas. Tactically speaking, this is really not a bad choice at all, since after we get the hostage (Qilin) the orthodox sects can retreat (whatever retreat that might be). Also we save Qilin. But since we leave the sect masters without our and the lesser fighter's support I think the Fire Lord might prevail. So the outcome might be: Fire Lord alive, Qilin alive. However I see this choice as a chance for treave to make Qilin die for us, shielding us from a killing blow, so...

Between A and C2 it's a really hard choice for me. We owe our lives to the Sword Saint, so I guess it would be fair we help him out now. However C2 is not a bad choice, it's not like we're abandoning them, we're saving the hostage so she can't be used against the sects.

I'm leaning however toward A, honor, gratitude and all, but I'll come with a vote later.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
*sigh*
Here the choice before last half of you wanted to take on 7 guys fighting in unison and one guy who's skill level was almost on par with our own at the same time and with no help.

Now you want to run like a bitch even though we have an army of backup to help us out just because this one guy is so much stronger than us personally.

I am convinced the codex has ZERO idea of the power of teamwork. It was through teamwork that we held off Yang Xue and escaped the pit(btw, certain people said that all our friends would be slaughtered and there was no way to defeat Yang in that situation too).

Vote A, bros. For teamwork. For harems. For fuck's sake. :M
 
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Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
*sigh*
Here the choice before last half of you wanted to take on 7 guys fighting in unison and one guy who's skill level was almost on par with our own at the same time and with no help.

Now you want to run like a bitch even though we have an army of backup to help us out just because this one guy is so much stronger than us personally.

Most of us didn't want to go after the Taishan Seven and Su Liaojing at the same time, which is why we didn't go for a fair fight in the first place. The entire issue here is that Qilin's life is at stake, and it seems unlikely that winning this battle on the side of the orthodox pugilists will put us any closer towards saving her. I don't see how it would achieve that goal, because if the Fire Cult gets really desperate... say, if they're on the losing end of a fight, they just might kill the hostage, regardless of the fact that Qilin isn't part of the Eight Sects herself. Our best bet here is to take matters into our own hands.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Most of us didn't want to go after the Taishan Seven and Su Liaojing at the same time
Bullshit. C was close to winning for a while there. Had it not been for all the conditional B/D flops and flops in general it could have taken it.

They might kill the hostage if they get desperate? What are you high? You don't KILL your ONLY HOSTAGE if you get desperate, you threaten to kill her. Monster though he may be, the cult leader clearly wants Qilin for himself and has probably given orders she not be harmed. Even in the last update, the way she would have gotten killed would have been in taking a blow meant for us, not in being executed as a hostage.
 

Azira

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
8,519
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
Codex 2012
Because killing your hostage is the smart move when you're in a tight situation, right. :roll: If the Fire Cult's situation deteriorates, then anyone within the cult with half a brain would want to maintain as strong a position as possible. Killing off your hostage means you have one less thing to bargain with. Killing them off in front of orthodox pugilists will only make them want to avenge the killed hostage.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I am convinced the codex has ZERO idea of the power of teamwork. It was through teamwork that we held off Yang Xue and escaped the pit(btw, certain people said that all our friends would be slaughtered and there was no way to defeat Yang in that situation too).
Funnily enough, I never was among those people. Yang Xue never fought with a killing intent towards us. In fact, he considered us his disciple somewhat.

I guess it was also through teamwork that the Masters have prevailed over the Fire Lord in the previous battle... oh, wait, the other guys know of this word, too.

Why would two teams fighting smaller battles be less effective than a big team with the same members fighting the same enemies in one giant battle?

And, yes, I'd rather go for the option that gets Qilin out of their reach.

Lambchop19 said:
You don't KILL your ONLY HOSTAGE if you get desperate, you threaten to kill her.
Yes, and then the other side stops, and you get away with the hostage. That does not help anything.
 

Rex Feral

Prophet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
1,300
Well after this incident, the Fire Cult can go fuck itself, in my opinion at least. There is no way I will ever vote we help them whatsoever from now on.

As for the vote, I'll go with A, because we owe Saintbro.

And because I trust Lambchop19 's instincts (and I can always blame him later).

And because C2 seems to be winning, anyway.

But really, I can't vote for anything else since we owe our life to this guy.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Lambchop19 said:
You don't KILL your ONLY HOSTAGE if you get desperate, you threaten to kill her.
Yes, and then the other side stops, and you get away with the hostage. That does not help anything.
We don't even know that they'll do that. This guy is macho enough to take on all these masters at once, he's not going to want to hide behind some girl and retreat. Hell, read the update: he's not trying to get away. He's using Qilin force the sects to stay and fight.
“The evil cult’s master will not let us go without a fight, friend,” says Nie Wuxing wearily. “He continues to hold the girl hostage in order to pin us here.”
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Hell, read the argument. He is confident he will kick our ass, so he is using Qilin to force us to fight. If he - somehow - finds himself on the losing side, he will be using Qilin to force us to stop. Killing the hostage is not a problem to him.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
If we strike quickly enough and kill him with the masters' help, he won't be able to order anyone to do anything.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
If we strike quickly enough and kill him, he won't be able to order anyone to do anything.
Good luck. Zhengchong couldn't do it, but you will certainly be able to.
It is good that there is only one fighter among you who can pose a threat to him, and the rest are beneath his notice.
I am sure that Jing, who is one level below the sect masters (whom the Fire Lord does not deem worthy of a mention) will make all the difference and fell him quickly in one blow.

This is ridiculous.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
If we strike quickly enough and kill him, he won't be able to order anyone to do anything.
you will certainly be able to.
WE - we will be able to. It isn't just us. Shit, how many times do I have to say it?
If we strike quickly enough and kill him, he won't be able to order anyone to do anything.
It is good that there is only one fighter among you who can pose a threat to him, and the rest are beneath his notice.
Sort of like how only one of the fighters we almost faced off in earlier was a challenge, but the others still would have chipped in and kicked our ass had we chosen to fight all of them at once like a moron?
I am sure that Jing, who is one level below the sect masters (whom the Fire Lord does not deem worthy of a mention) will make all the difference and fell him quickly in one blow.
Yeah, because that's what I said.:roll:

Strawman all you like. The only way to save Qilin AND Yunzi is to take this guy out now.
 

profreshinal

Arcane
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
1,864,548
If the fire lord starts losing his Amesha spenta will come and help him, because a 1 on X isn't really fair and let's even up those numbers, we might see a repeat of the original scenario where the rest of the fire cult retreats under Vahista with Qilin. Jing can beat a weakened Vahista and save her like that.

If my scenario plays out then in A orthodox win but Qilin disappears with the rest of fire Cult. In C2 Orthodox lose but we safe Qilin and C1 orthodox win and we safe Qilin. At least this is how I see it.
 

Elfberserker

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
1,540
I will flop to A

I trust that, if the firelord is defeated then there will be mass panic at the firecult side. By panic I mean everyman for himself or they bargain safe retreat in exchange of Qilin. Remember people Firecult is bargaining with trustworthy eight sects, not only unorthodox upstart like Jing. The best solution would be that Yunzi takes over firecult or someone reasonable.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Hey, you are the guy who says that if Jing participates, the battle will be over so fast that the Lord will not be able to call for reinforcements or issue an order regarding the hostage. That is exactly what you are saying, I am not making this up.
 
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a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Hey, you are the guy that says that if Jing participates, the battle will be over so fast that the Lord will not be able to call for reinforcements or issue an order regarding the hostage. That is exactly what you are saying, I am not making this up.
Again, strawman. I'm not saying the battle will be over that quickly. I'm saying that - once he is one the ropes - we kill him quickly before he calls for reinforcements (IF he is even the sort to call for reinforcements).

Blame me if it doesn't work.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
And for those of you worried about Qilin if this guy dies - as if Yunzi wouldn't order her release then - why not use our sneaking skills and rescue her sometime after the battle?
 

ScubaV

Prophet
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
1,022
I don't know. I'm torn between A and C2. Honestly, I've skimmed over most of the discuss. I suspect with A, Qilin won't be in immediate danger, and we'll have a chance to rescue her or she'll have a chance to escape at some future point. So, I'm going for the gamble. Let's take this chode down. A
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
I trust that, if the firelord is defeated then there will be mass panic at the firecult side. By panic I mean everyman for himself or they bargain safe retreat in exchange of Qilin. Remember people Firecult is bargaining with trustworthy eight sects, not only unorthodox upstart like Jing. The best solution would be that Yunzi takes over firecult or someone reasonable.
You mean the same Honorable Orthodox Sects that have been slaughtering these cultists not even an hour ago?
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
You mean the same Honorable Orthodox Sects that have been slaughtering these cultists not even an hour ago?

It might be vengeful to hunt down the Fire Cult like this, but the circumstances that led up to it are sort of understandable. I mean, their Amesha Spenta did gang up on the Grand Taoist, after all. Plus, there's the fact that there are all of these rumors of their general untrustworthiness. Plus, it's also complete hyperbole to say that the orthodox sects have been "slaughtering" the cultists. The situation is pretty murky and I hardly think that they've crossed the line into a full-blown massacre here.
 

Elfberserker

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
1,540
You mean the same Honorable Orthodox Sects that have been slaughtering these cultists not even an hour ago?

The same that hold their agreement to honor rules of engagment until Firecult broke it. Besides most of those fights were rather even, hell Bai Jiutian had tough time with Vahista. Firecult is hardly only innocent party here.

"Dick" Sects heads of Kunlun, Taishan and Hueshan does not seem bloodthirsty fighters like Lord Zhang nor disregard their promises to other party even if they do not like them unlike Man-Tiger-Pig.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
I'm not passing judgement on either side right now, just pointing out that the Orthodox sects pursuing these guys into the valley, cutting off their escape and then fighting them to the last is a pretty clear indicator that they didn't want any cultists leaving this place alive and that Elfberserker's argument that the sects won't pursue a violent end is kinda shaky.
 

Elfberserker

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
1,540
I'm not passing judgement on either side right now, just pointing out that the Orthodox sects pursuing these guys into the valley, cutting off their escape and then fighting them to the last is a pretty clear indicator that they didn't want any cultists leaving this place alive and that Elfberserker's argument that the sects won't pursue a violent end is kinda shaky

My Argument was based that, If Firecult handed Qilin in exchange of pursuit free escape and Orthodox Schools accept it then they wouldn't hunt Firecult down in the valley. Orthodox sects do have reputation holding their part of bargains and I imagine that sects heads want to uphold that reputation. None of orthodox schools want innocent maiden like Qilin getting killed by their mistake or bloodlust.
 

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