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[LP CYOA] 傳

Discussion in 'Choose Your Own Adventure Land' started by treave, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. Kipeci Magister

    Kipeci
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    Yes, fighting. Now, where does the fighting come from? If the Sword Saint is keeping the peace anyway, where is the attack coming from? It's a brave man that dares to challenge him.

    If he's not keeping the peace, then isn't the fighting going to start even if we're drinking with him? If that's the case, we might as well try to save Qilin rather than hope everything is better by the time Jing gets drunk.


    edit: Dumb mistake of mine, I thought you were replying to something else.
     
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  2. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    I agree 'we could use a drink' is basically letting treave troll us, but there have been good reasons suggested for A. In the long/medium run, Fire Cult? Sure, I think we should find out more about them, and although we had good reasons in the past we haave ended up neglecting this.

    What's the tally?
     
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  3. treave Arcane Patron

    treave
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    Codex 2012
    Baltika9 - C
    Anabanana - A
    Fangshi - C > A
    Zero Credibility - A
    ERYFKRAD - C > A
    RealDDc - A
    Kipeci - C
    asxetos - A
    Rex Feral - C > A
    Ganymede - D
    Absinthe - C > A > B
    LWC1996 - A
    Azira - A
    Nevill - A
    Elfberserker - A
    profreshinal - A
    ScubaV - C
    XenomorphII - C
    Kashmir Slippers - A
    GreyViper - A
    Lambchop19 - A > C
    Tigranes - A
    Tribute - A
    TOME - A
    Grimgravy - A
    kazgar - A
    Random Word - C
    SirArvedeth - A

    ***

    Current tally:

    A - 18
    C - 9
    D - 1
     
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  4. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    Except not really, that was meant as a joke. What I really don't get with A is how it helps us save Qilin, like, at all. We're basically going out into the middle of the shitstorm and counting on Shagguan and dumb luck to pull her ass out of the fire, because we won't be able to do a single thing besides trolling in that position. This is a remarkably stupid gamble to make with another person's life, I have absolutely no idea what this "something" that gives A-voters their confidence is.
    Furthermore, I don't understand what was the point of saving those girls from getting massacred and then not taking the avenues that choice opened: the Cult now knows/thinks that we are aligned more to them than the sects and will be inclined to trust us more. Considering that they need all the help they can get around here, we can count on them being open to negotiations along the "scratch our back, we scratch yours" line, which is pretty acceptable since it gives us Cult points, Yunzi points and Qilin points.
     
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  5. LWC1996 Learned

    LWC1996
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    I wouldn't be too keen to get too close to someone who might think I've been making moves on his wife-to-be.

    Or is it that he's a temple Lord flaming faggot (in Baltika's own words) that we feel safe in approaching him?
     
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  6. Kipeci Magister

    Kipeci
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    Mind listing them? In the end, everything seems to boil down to 'the orthodox guys will suddenly attack if we vote C' or else 'the fire cult might ask a favor of us if we go for C' rather than any particularly good reason to go drinking. Proponents say something about the Sword Saint handling everything, but don't say why he wouldn't do that if we go for any other option. I'm really confused as to how A got this popular.

    They spend all their time together talking about how much they despise one another barring a few moments alone in the ghost mansion that none of her Fire Cult observers were privy to, I think we're pretty clear there.
     
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  7. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    Yes, I would very much love to see a list of what exactly the points for A are and what exactly we're hoping will save Qilin's hide/help us save her hide in that situation, since throwing Jing in the middle of a "peace talk" with the orthodoxes will just further escalate the situation.

    The Brazilian Slaughter, Elfberserker, Ganymede, can you guys be persuaded to a C flop, for all the reasons already mentioned many times over?
     
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  8. Kashmir Slippers Augur

    Kashmir Slippers
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    Believe it or not, some of us have been posting stuff for a while. You seem to be overlooking the points, though.
     
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  9. Random Word Arbiter Patron

    Random Word
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    MCA Project: Eternity
    C. Time for Fire Lord Diplomacy.
     
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  10. Kipeci Magister

    Kipeci
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    And then we reply to those (though I admit I was focusing more on Nevill than you) and then the points would get dropped. We always come to the same points, with A voters saying that A and A alone will have the Sword Saint bothering to keep the peace as the proponent for the A option and the argument against C being that (for the sillier one) we'll get ourselves immediately killed because Jing's presence will somehow anger the orthodox crew into immediately charging away or (for the more serious one) the Fire Cult might ask for a favor or something in exchange for letting Qilin go.

    Do you have any other reasoning for voting A?
     
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  11. kazgar Arcane

    kazgar
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  12. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    That would have worked if we went for the BJ-Vahista-Jing threesome, but doesn't apply in this situation at all. :lol:
     
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  13. kazgar Arcane

    kazgar
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    Fire cult, orthodox, sword saint.

    C plans on interrupting whatever happens by going first and begging for the release of one of the aces up the sleeve of the numerically inferior side.
     
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  14. Kashmir Slippers Augur

    Kashmir Slippers
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    Most of my points ride with the Sword Saint, yes, but here is how I see it.

    It gives us a vantage point. I know that B is the "sit and wait" option, but A still lets us see what develops from a central location. C either removes us from the big picture or could force something nasty to happen.

    It lets us do what we do best: distract and get everyone's attention. Qilin might be able to escape if we do something to distract them. I don't think our fighting ability will really be able to make all that much difference where we stand. The cult is on the apparently losing side. Unless our 5 SoH is really that godly, I don't see us making that big of a difference that would really do anything be it with bargaining or whatnot.

    It let's us pool our resources with the Sword Saint. We have no idea what he is planning. Since he, like us, is technically unaligned in this fight, he is probably our best candidate for help. If he does have a plan, we might be able to help him with it, or at least keep ourselves from getting in his way.

    Also, I think he is an incredibly interesting character. It might be well worth our time to sit with him and get to know him better. He might be an invaluable asset in the future.
     
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  15. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    Not quite. As the update itself noted, Qilin is a completely useless hostage because Wuxing and his ilk view the unorthodox as lower than dirt, so she really is no ace at all. She is, however, valuable to us and none of the choices change that at all. Say what you want about C, but it takes a proactive stance towards actually doing something to pull her ass out of the fire now, as opposed to relying on ridiculous trolling in a volatile situation to make something happen out of thin air. And gambling her life like that is kinda dumb, when we have an in with the Cult, via the maidens and the established fact that we are their enemy's enemy, and Yunzi. We have people that will speak up for us on their side, and that's all the chance we need to open dialogue and offer barter. If they need our help to escape, then so be it. I don't thin anyone was planning to leave these guys, Yunzi and all, to a slaughter in the first place (except RealDDc).

    Like what? If we are negotiating for a hostage's life and neither us or the Cult is making a hostile move, how would Shagguan allow the orthodoxes to just initiate violence when he is here for pacifism? We brought him to be the Big Dick in this place, so let him do his thing while we look for our interest, namely Qilin.
    Okay, we distract everyone and get their eyes on us...and now what? What can MTP, the most reviled pugilist by the sects, say that will diffuse the situation and let Qilin run free, from the iron grip of the Amesha Spenta holding her? Sleigh of Hand doesn't come into negotiations, but Speech, standing and CHA do. We have enough to get our foot in the door and barter for Qilin's life. If they want our help to escape in exchange, why the hell not?
    Whatever his plan is, he is a bad enough dude to pacify the two sides just by his presence alone, so I don't see why he needs Jing's help for anything here, especially if it is a diplomatic solution that he seeks. Jing is great for inciting fights, butthurt and trolololo in the Orthodox Sects. Why would Nie Wuxing listen to a word we say to him, when he is clearly in a stronger position? He can, without a doubt, crush us with no problems.
    True, but absolutely nothing says we cannot meet him later down the line. He seems to be pretty tight with our Lord Zhang. However, with Qilin's life on the line, now is not at all the best time.
     
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  16. Kipeci Magister

    Kipeci
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    We might not want to be a part of the big picture, it might well get very gross around here fairly soon. Throwing your lot in with the whole battle having to be stopped without it starting back up to get the friend back in this tense time seems a bit less flexible to me than negotiating the friend away from that vise and seeing what we can do later.

    Jing is really good at bugging the orthodox guys, but we haven't even met the Fire Cult and don't know how to push their buttons, or even if we'd want to try that. What we can be sure of is that if they don't know that Qilin doesn't have value as a hostage against the Orthodox, they're not going to let their hostage slip away (as they feel that without that extra leverage a new massacre might start) so we can be sure that they're going to be holding onto her pretty tight, multiple of the best fighters that the Fire Cult has to offer aren't going to let such a 'valuable' person slip away from their grip no matter what sort of antics a teenage attention whore tries to pull off while drinking half the battlefield away.

    Besides that, precisely, Jing isn't quite big enough to be a big impact. They can't really influence the tide of the battle by demanding that he fight or else they'll kill her or something, so there's no reason for them to do that, but if they don't have a reason to hold onto her, then why should they bother? Jing very well might get saddled with some favor or something in return, but I think it's probably worth it for her.

    If we don't want to get in his way, maybe we shouldn't get in his way. People are advocating getting him to have BJ serve us wine while sitting atop Vahista, I think that sort of scenario would be way more inflammatory with both sides than just talking with the Fire Cult guys. I'm not sure what we can possibly bring to his table that he doesn't have already, but I guess this is an alright point.

    Yes, well, I can say the same about the fire cult characters, can't I? An intriguing group that Jing's first kinda love interest is all wrapped up within that Jing has consistently demonstrated zero interest in. We always say that we'll talk with them or figure out something later because something important popped up (or in this case for drinking I guess) but we never bother and have no idea what any of them are like. We've cumulatively spent more time with the Sword Saint who just showed up than any non-Yunzi member of the Fire Cult, and that worries me.
     
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  17. Kashmir Slippers Augur

    Kashmir Slippers
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    My biggest problem with C in this regard is that there are no absolutes. There is no guaranteeing us that they will even talk to us or free Qilin no matter what we do for them. I think that the maidens and Yunzi advantages are overstated. Sure, we helped the maidens get away, and that puts us into a good light, but they aren't that special at all. They seem to be acolytes of sorts, I doubt that they will be able to sway their masters much. The same goes for Yunzi. We have always had a love-hate relationship, so even if she is in a good mood and puts in a good word for us, like treave said, she doesn't have the clout to make anyone do anything. The cult is in a precarious position, so I don't think that the Lord will let the lives of a few neophytes or the child-hood frienemy of his squeeze put us above his cult's best interests. Like I said earlier, if throwing us or our girlfriend away saves their hides, then why should they care what happens to us. We have some slight connection, but it isn't nearly enough to make that big of a difference.

    I don't see how this really relates to what I am saying. What I said had nothing to do with the Saint or violence/nonviolence. A places us in the middle of the battlefield, so we have a good view of both sides and can see if anything is brewing. I fear that going up to the cult in C might make us miss out on something important or push thing in a bad direction.

    With a distraction we can attempt to get everyone's eyes and attention on us so that Qilin can make some move to escape. She is hardly a maiden in distress. Given a little help she can manage herself. Probably. I have no delusions that we will be able to stop the fighting on our own. I am hoping that we can do as much as we can to help Qilin escape without throwing ourselves in an unwinnable situation.

    My point about SoH was mostly about our fighting ability. It is supposed to be our ace-in-the-hole upon which we can fall back to win fights. What I was saying is that I do not think that we would be capable of doing anything that would persuade them to release Qilin. I assume that any help they might ask for involves fighting the orthodox sects and making a distraction or whatnot, but I do not think we are capable of accomplishing anything on the level of them giving her up. What could we do to help that wouldn't involve fighting the sects? We would be outnumbered and outmatched. This isn't the pirate situation where we are facing off against random nobodies. We would be up against the best of the best the sects have to offer. Failure could mean them not returning Qilin or even death.

    My main point about helping him is to not get in his way. Say that he was trying to think of a way to approach the situation or was seeing if it would cool slightly. Us running headlong into the cult, even if we only want to bargain, might set off a string of events that cause his plans to fail. Maybe we physically get in the way of him succeeding. Maybe we cause the sects to charge. Who knows? As you said. He doesn't need our help. So we should let him do his thing, and maybe even ask him to help us save our girl. He seems like a prime candidate for that. Two is better than one, especially when one is a Zhang-level fighter.

    I just don't like taking any chances. We have crossed at least two paths (Ashina tribe/Fire Cult/maybe even Shun) where we kept putting off the options to get oriented with a group until is was too late to do anything. The Sword Saint seems even more like Jing is than Zhang. I want to develop as much of a rapport with him as we can as soon as possible.
     
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  18. Kashmir Slippers Augur

    Kashmir Slippers
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    It is late, I can hardly comprehend what I am trying to read or write, so this will be my last post for the night.

    That is cool. I can understand that viewpoint. I just don't have anywhere near your confidence in our ability or the cult's generosity to see it working off that nicely.

    Yeah. Who knows. I just think staying near the Saint will keep us from disturbing anything too greatly. We don't necessarily have to be assholes with A. We can just pop over there to chill with him. outrageous levels of antagonism aren't explicitly stated in the option, so I don't necessarily see it devolving so quickly unless we chose to in another vote.

    The cult is completely against all my views of how I want Jing to turn out. I still hope that we can work out some middle ground with the sects that can keep them all from seeing us as a traitor and scum. The sects seem to dangerous of a choice for me. Siding with them would almost assuredly be the last bridge we could burn with teh sects and ever hope for them to not eternally hate us. All friends that we have made up until this point could not save us if all the major organizations despise us.

    Siding with the Saint allows us to still be unorthodox, but doesn't piss everyone off as much.

    Also, my #1 is still and will always be helping Shun. Without question. I see having anything to do with the Fire Cult as directly contrary to helping China, and more importantly, Shun.
     
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  19. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    In a different situation, perhaps he could afford to kick our ass to the curb. However, look at this from his perspective: he is wounded, only two of his Amesha Spentas are in any condition to fight and his forces are even more outnumbered than they were before. No one in the jianghu has shown him or his people any consideration. Except, that is, Xu Jing when he rescued the children of his faction. They definitely received word of what we have done, as shown by our reputation increase, so I am definitely confident that this gives us the benefit of the doubt from him. Besides which, this is an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation: everyone knows that Jing is no friend to the Orthodox sects, especially not the Huehueshan. So, yeah, there are enough unifying factors here that C is a more surefire way than A is, and by a long shot.
    Uh, what can our childish antics and trolling possibly do to help Qilin escape from the iron grip of the Amesha Spenta holding her? That wasn't really stated in any uncertain terms:
    Again, it seems that A is relying on a nebulous something to happen and by some miracle help Qilin escape across the field, but what that something is no one has any idea of. C is a plan, a moderately risky plan, but a plan nonetheless that we can count on because we are the ones who ahve developed.
    :lol: Dude, that's hilarious, considering that we know almost nothing about these guys. How are they, survivors of a Muslim genocide looking for a new home and in a very precarious position that is open to negotiation with the Emperor via us, a bigger threat than the Orthodox Sects, infiltrated by the Grand Eunuchs' agents and having a stranglehold on the Empire's tax bases and farmlands?
    I dun liek fier kult, they are evil! when we know next to nothing about them.
     
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  20. Baltika9 Arcane

    Baltika9
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    Furthermore, as the agent of the One True Emperor, what do we care what some prissy LARPer ponces from the Orthodox Sects think about us? We are Shun's agent, not theirs.
     
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  21. Kipeci Magister

    Kipeci
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    Well, sure there are no absolutes, but do you think an option that's both stalls for time and gets Jing a little drunk is going to surely without a doubt result in her rescue either? I think that making the effort at least bumps up the chances a lot, and again makes things better with her and her family if we got up to do something instead of sitting down to drink at the first sign of trouble.

    Anyway, the maidens and Yunzi aren't to convince the guys on their own, obviously. That's the job for 7 CHA and 5 Speech along with explaining the situation to them. The maidens and the Yunzi allow us in through the door so that we can talk to them in the first place, as they keep the guys from just assuming that we're some orthodox punk who would as soon stab them as speak to them to get 'super orthodox' Qilin back. This option probably wouldn't be available if we'd decided to attack them in the last scene, I figure that we should make use of it since we did fight on the Fire Cult's side.

    Well, what do you think Jing can really do about greater movements or brewing trouble here? Most of the things that would be a problem are too big for Jing to tackle as a general thing, that's why we're going for specific goals such as making sure that Jing's future wives get out of this alive. What would you do if you had an extra minute or two in noticing Zhang Jue before he turned up? Would it matter that much, what does Jing do in response to such an event?

    She's in the grasp of people on the level of the masters of the eight sects who don't want her to escape, I still contend that there's no distraction a drunken teenager a distance away could pull off that would pull the wool over their eyes and allow her to make a run for it... at least, not on the fly.

    She's useless for their goal. They might try to milk the situation for what it's worth; what it's worth is not demanding the guy who's been vaguely sympathetic to your Fire Cult to fight to the death uselessly against the Orthodox sects. When they become aware that she's useless as a hostage, spending the effort and manpower to keep her hostage becomes a liability and so there's no reason for them to keep on with it. A favor out of Jing might happen, but outnumbered as they are they can't spare the folks to keep her captive if she's not going to work out for their plan.

    Yeah, I should really have started sleeping by now, too...

    That's fair I guess, I'm just really doubtful that sitting down to drink will make everything better especially when Jing has really shitty luck.

    I just don't know how we can really say that when we don't know the first thing about the cult. The kneejerk reaction seems to generally be, "It's a cult, fuck 'em," and that has its place, but it's definitely hurt us before. I remember a time in the Epic CYOA where we had the option to check out the cult's asteroid base which would have advanced us pretty far along and been really good for us but we didn't because the cult was icky. This one doesn't even seem to be worshiping tentacled space monsters, Zoroastrians have seemed fairly cool even though they've been so troubled. While the orthodox sects might not be too happy with us being percieved as on their side, I really doubt that they'd care that much. I mean, we still are holding onto one of the Emei sect treasures but we just have -10 relations with them and those that we know seem fairly friendly. Anyone that we actually know personally seems to understand Jing's actions as alright, I don't think anyone of those guys would begrudge him trying to get Qilin out of her situation when she means that much to him.

    I just don't see why you think the Fire Cult is absolutely opposed to helping China and Shun. The Orthodox Sects aren't protecting the lands away from their mountains and so on very well, and are definitely too strong in influence in the areas that they are patrolling well. Having these two groups keep each other in check seems like it'd work out okay, and while the Fire Cult is a foreign organization their homeland is in such a state that they're basically exiles on the level of the Minamoto clan, certainly not the invading force of a conquering empire. Some degree of imperial patronage for them or perhaps even allowing some religious freedom for Zoroastrians could go a long ways to help secure some friendliness between them and Shun, Shun doesn't appear to be zealous about his beliefs so I don't see why he wouldn't allow such a thing.
     
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  22. RealDDc Learned

    RealDDc
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    Shangguan reminds me of Gannicus from the Spartacus series.
     
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  23. Rex Feral Liturgist

    Rex Feral
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    Damn, I loved Gannicus, favorite character from Spartacus. :love:
     
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  24. RealDDc Learned

    RealDDc
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    Same here, simply can't refuse to sit down in the midst of a waging war for a drink with Gannicus Shangguan.
     
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  25. SirArvedeth Novice

    SirArvedeth
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