[LP CYOA] 傳

[Nevill]

That's a theory. Still not a fact.

I find this refuttal extremely hilarious, considering the person it is coming from.

That's a false dichotomy, idiot.

Go blow yourself and come back when you are able to talk without resorting to insults.

 

[Absinthe]

I start with "Fu Xia matches all the facts of the case."
You respond "You are discarding other facts."
I ask "Which facts?"
You give me a list of things you think are wrong.

Unsurprisingly, I feel compelled to point out that this list has failed to provide any facts.

Sure, you can disagree with me about my interpretation of the facts, which you've done, but you still failed to prove your original point where you claimed I am discarding other facts of the case that don't match him. I asked "could he fit the hard evidence of the case" and you responded "here are reasons why I think it wouldn't be him." Cool, but that's not evidence to the contrary. That's just interpretations to the contrary.

The closest thing I can find to evidence that Fu Xia didn't do it is that treave mentioned the footprints at the wall were smaller and lighter than Fu Xia's. However, I asked treave if Fu Xia could have made these footprints with qinggong (and we know qinggong was used there from the investigation), and treave responded that it's possible.

Go blow yourself and come back when you are able to talk without resorting to insults.

Son, you've been resorting to all sorts of asinine banter as a means of discrediting me. Now you throw a fit over being called an idiot? K.

 

[treave]

Huh, I was expecting someone to to do something like this.

***

Case Reconstruction:

xu hour:

- Xu Jing et al. arrive at Xinchun Restaurant.
- Jiang Zheng leaves to meet with Du Yao.
- Brawl begins.
- Fu Xia leaves restaurant (?). Xiaofang leaves restaurant (?).
- Brawl ends.
- Jiang Zheng begins discussion with Du Yao.

hai hour

- Jiang Zheng ends discussion with Du Yao.
- Jiang Zheng leaves manor, and sneaks back in shortly after when Xiaofang does not turn up.
- Jiang Zheng discovers Du Yao fighting with man-in-black. Du Yao cries out and dies at this time from poison (corroborated by autopsy), witnessed by Jiang. He wounds the assailant. Man-in-black escapes and shortly after Du Yao’s daughter arrives. Jiang Zheng is captured. Assailant is spotted escaping across the yard by a servant using qinggong, leaving behind tracks. Claimed to be wearing the Jinkong uniform.
- Homeless man sees Xiaofang arguing with a man-in-black. They get into a fight and Xiaofang is defeated. Xiaofang is left lying on the ground.
- Xu Jing et al. return to the inn. Fu Xia returns to the inn.

zi hour

- Xiaofang is no longer where the homeless man last saw him.

***

Some Questions for Speculation:

1. Both Fu Xia and Xiaofang left the restaurant. Did one leave after the other?

2. What was it that Du Yao seemed to glean from his discussion with Jiang Zheng, and could it have played a role in his death?

3. Jiang Zheng snuck back into the manor on 'instinct' when Xiaofang did not turn up, and asked him to meet him at the manor instead of discussing it back at the inn. Was there a reason?

4. Du Yao was injured with a constable's sword. If the purpose was to frame a constable, why was he not outright killed with one?

5. Did Du Yao or any of the other parties involved have any connections with the Xueguizi who invented the Hanbing Needles that took his life?

6. The poison did not seem to be part of the Hanbing Needles technique according to Xuezi. Is it something originating from her Xueguizi, or does it have another source? For that matter, could the troubles at Tianshan be connected with this somehow?

7. Xiaofang was late to meet with Jiang Zheng, yet he was seen after Du Yao's murder arguing with a man in black. Why?

8. Was the man in black who fought Xiaofang the same person?

9. Were the injuries from the Jinkong Sect techniques inflicted before or after the poisoning?

10. How did Xiaofang move from where he was in the alley to the sickhouse you found him in later?

 

[GreyViper]

Yeah and the fact that he really really wanted to infiltrate Xueguizi. Wonder if he has been undercover at Xueguizi before and earned there all that stuff. Honestly there arent any more players to tie strings to. Besides he fits the profile of the first manual robbery, hes the inside man so to speak. Best course of action poison paralyze him the truth serum.
So yeah C all the way.

 

[Nevill]

Yeah and the fact that he really really wanted to infiltrate Xueguizi.

Who? When? Where?

 

[Nevill]

7. Xiaofang was late to meet with Jiang Zheng, yet he was seen after Du Yao's murder arguing with a man in black. Why?
8. Was the man in black who fought Xiaofang the same person?
9. Were the injuries from the Jinkong Sect techniques inflicted before or after the poisoning?
10. How did Xiaofang move from where he was in the alley to the sickhouse you found him in later?

There are several explanations that come to mind.

First, Xiaofang was confronted with Jinkong Sect members who roughed him up and that was what delayed him from arriving in time. From there, he could have bumped into the man-in-black, who should have been the same as the murderer as he carried the same poison and struck him with the same technique. How he ended up in the sickhouse is anyone's guess.

Second, Xiaofang was actually the murderer who snuck inside the mansion as soon as the chief left - which is why he wasn't around. He killed Du Yao and escaped, but was confronted by a Jinkong Sect member (why would they be wearing a mask?) and beaten up. He might have moved to the sickhouse and poisoned himself in a non-lethal way to look the part of the victim. This is quite far-fetched, as he could not have known that we found him, and we were needed to stabilize him so that he didn't die.

6. The poison did not seem to be part of the Hanbing Needles technique according to Xuezi. Is it something originating from her Xueguizi, or does it have another source? For that matter, could the troubles at Tianshan be connected with this somehow?

The poison did not originate from the Central Plains, as Qilin said, yet the ones who came in search of the manual certainly did. If there is a connection between the two, it is yet unknown. Then again, Xueguzi betrayed her, they deal with all kinds of rare plants, and one of them either had to teach the technique to the assassin or be the assassin. So it is likely that the poison originated fromTianshan.

4. Du Yao was injured with a constable's sword. If the purpose was to frame a constable, why was he not outright killed with one?

I thought he was stabbed after death, but chief's words seem to point that Du Yao was alive until he came in. There was a fight at a melee range, but why would there be if the assassin had a perfect killing weapon at his disposal? It seem to point to the relative inexperience of the assassin, maybe? Or that he did not come in with the intention to kill Du Yao? We don't even know if it was a constable's sword - we know the sword had the same characteristics as the ones issued to the constables.

Can someone make sense of it all?

 

[Esquilax]

Yeah and the fact that he really really wanted to infiltrate Xueguizi. Wonder if he has been undercover at Xueguizi before and earned there all that stuff. Honestly there arent any more players to tie strings to. Besides he fits the profile of the first manual robbery, hes the inside man so to speak. Best course of action poison paralyze him the truth serum.

First off, C would involve interrogating Fu Xia publicly:

You still think Fu Xia is hiding something. You had refrained from interrogating him until you found more evidence that might point to him, but you have no choice now but to bring him into the spotlight for a public interrogation in a last-ditch attempt to fully solve the case even in the absence of that evidence... although you are not sure whether it will actually be fruitful at this point.

Any Jack Bauer-esque fantasies of torturing a confession out of him don't seem to be on the table. As for Xueguizi, Fu Xia wanted to infiltrate the Jinkong Sect, thus far he hasn't even mentioned the Xueguizi. Maybe you misread that bit.

Anyways, let's run through the list that treave provided. We've asked some of these questions before, but we haven't organized it in this way. Kipeci Baltika9 Nevill Absinthe Tigranes ScubaV TOME Smashing Axe, maybe you guys can help me out here.

1. Both Fu Xia and Xiaofang left the restaurant. Did one leave after the other?

I don't know how we'd find this out. Any ideas, guys? If they left together, I suppose that would hint at some sort of collaboration between them and could point towards Fu Xia being the masked man, and therefore, Du Yao's killer.

2. What was it that Du Yao seemed to glean from his discussion with Jiang Zheng, and could it have played a role in his death?

Well, here's what Du Yao's daughter and Jiang Zheng had to say about the matter:

I had brought tea over to my father’s study in the inner yard, near the end of the xu hour. At that time, he was conversing with a man called Jiang Zheng. I did not plan to eavesdrop, but I overheard them discussing the Jinkong Sect and some manual. They paused their discussion when I knocked. When I entered the room, everything was normal. I paid my greetings and left.
...
“I have reason to believe he is not involved. He seemed to have discovered something during our talk, but he did not talk about it. Instead, he told me to return the next day, once he had gathered his thoughts. If you know Du Yao, you will know that there are some things that you cannot push.”

I'm still not sure what to make of this. I can't draw anything out of it with the scant info that we have.

3. Jiang Zheng snuck back into the manor on 'instinct' when Xiaofang did not turn up, and asked him to meet him at the manor instead of discussing it back at the inn. Was there a reason?

How did Jing not ask Jiang Zheng about this? This is stuff that we should know from our conversation with him. What were the orders that Jiang Zheng had intended to give Xiaofang?

4. Du Yao was injured with a constable's sword. If the purpose was to frame a constable, why was he not outright killed with one?

Poisoned ice needles that don't leave evidence behind are probably a better tool for an assassin. Furthermore, I believe that the killer was not a novice in the Hanbing Needle technique:

“Hanbing Needles (寒冰針, Ice-Cold Needles). It is a Xueguizi technique, where we make sharp needles from icy qi, drawing water to freeze from the air itself.”

“I see,” nods Lady Suien. “That would explain why the murder weapon could not be found. They melted. How long would a needle take to melt?”

“It can vary,” replies Xuezi. “Expert practitioners can make it last for longer, while amateurs can hold the needle together for no more than scant seconds.”

“Could they freeze poison in liquid form?” asks Lady Suien again. “Could they dip the ice needles in poison?”

“That is all possible,” says Xuezi. Then, she turns to you, a proud, arrogant smirk on her face. “See?”

I don't think that a novice could have dipped the ice needles in poison, gotten into a fight with Du Yao, then pricked him with a needle before the ice melted. A few seconds simply isn't enough time for that. The killer had above average qinggong and was probably skilled at the Hanbing Needle technique.

5. Did Du Yao or any of the other parties involved have any connections with the Xueguizi who invented the Hanbing Needles that took his life?

I don't know, treave, can Xuezi tell us anything about that? The Xueguizi sell golden fox leaves to all sorts of people, did they have any dealings with Du Yao? This is information that we should have access too, no?

6. The poison did not seem to be part of the Hanbing Needles technique according to Xuezi. Is it something originating from her Xueguizi, or does it have another source? For that matter, could the troubles at Tianshan be connected with this somehow?

Well, it's not Wudu, and Qilin didn't recognize it at all, so I doubt that this originates from the Central Plains.

7. Xiaofang was late to meet with Jiang Zheng, yet he was seen after Du Yao's murder arguing with a man in black. Why?

He'd have to have known the killer. I can't think of any other explanation right now.

8. Was the man in black who fought Xiaofang the same person?

Almost certainly, yes. I highly doubt that two different people would have access to a rare Xueguizi technique that people in the Central Plains wouldn't be familiar with and use it on two different people on the same day. The person who killed Du Yao and the person who attacked Xiaofang are one and the same.

9. Were the injuries from the Jinkong Sect techniques inflicted before or after the poisoning?

Okay, what does Cao'er say about that? This should be available to us, no? However, even if I did know the answer, I wouldn't know what to make of it.

10. How did Xiaofang move from where he was in the alley to the sickhouse you found him in later?

Who knows?

 

[Nevill]

I don't know how we'd find this out. Any ideas, guys? If they left together, I suppose that would hint at some sort of collaboration between them and could point towards Fu Xia being the masked man, and therefore, Du Yao's killer.

One could have simply tailed the other.

Since Xiaofang had orders from the chief, and Fu Xia did not, this would point out to Fu Xia having some kind of a plan outside of his mission as a constable... maybe.

I'm still not sure what to make of this. I can't draw anything out of it with the scant info that we have.

Since Du Yao has close ties with Jinkong sect, he might have realised who could have known their techniques besides them. It could have pointed out the identity of the team that had stolen the manual.

How did Jing not ask Jiang Zheng about this? This is stuff that we should know from our conversation with him. What were the orders that Jiang Zheng had intended to give Xiaofang?

This was the part that confused me most in the update:

“And what about the Jinkong Sect?”

“It is up in the air. Certainly, Du Yao did not confirm whether they were the culprits… it is still possible.”

“Hm, I suppose that has nothing to do with the orders you were to give Xiaofang?”

Jiang Zheng laughs suddenly, his hands slapping the metal bars. “Good question. Yes, I suspected that Du Yao, being the man he is, would be neck deep in matters that may lead to the eunuchs either directly or indirectly. After talking to him, I was going to discuss it with Xiaofang as a matter of precaution. Could you ask him to meet with me later?”

“Well, I would have brought him, but… Xiaofang is missing.”

What did the chief want to discuss with Xiaofang? Never mind talking with Xiaofang near the mansion, why would he turn back immediately after not finding him there?

 

[treave]

3. Jiang Zheng snuck back into the manor on 'instinct' when Xiaofang did not turn up, and asked him to meet him at the manor instead of discussing it back at the inn. Was there a reason?

How did Jing not ask Jiang Zheng about this? This is stuff that we should know from our conversation with him. What were the orders that Jiang Zheng had intended to give Xiaofang?

How did anyone not ask more about this until I brought it up? If his explanation was not enough to attract curiosity at the time then...

His intents were hinted at in the update itself: eunuchs. Also, note a slight difference in Du Yao's testimony.

First, he said:

I had quietly asked Xiaofang to come meet me at the entrance of the mansion around the start of the hai hour so that I could give him his next orders

Then, when Jing brings up the 'orders to be given', it was:

After talking to him (Du Yao), I was going to discuss it with Xiaofang as a matter of precaution.

And further on:

“Either he has turned on us and is actually working for one of the Grand Eunuchs that do not like the Imperial Constabulary, or he has run afoul of a person who knows of his role with the eunuch department. I must say, even though he is my subordinate, I am perfectly willing to accept either explanation.”

5. Did Du Yao or any of the other parties involved have any connections with the Xueguizi who invented the Hanbing Needles that took his life?

I don't know, treave, can Xuezi tell us anything about that? The Xueguizi sell golden fox leaves to all sorts of people, did they have any dealings with Du Yao? This is information that we should have access too, no?

Xuezi isn't involved with the business aspect of things, though on her part she has never heard of this Du Yao guy. The last time she was in the Central Plains, Wang Zhengchong hadn't even been born, and the last time she kept up with what was going on here, he had just taken over leadership of Wudang.

9. Were the injuries from the Jinkong Sect techniques inflicted before or after the poisoning?

Okay, what does Cao'er say about that? This should be available to us, no? However, even if I did know the answer, I wouldn't know what to make of it.

It could be from shortly before the poisoning till up to half a day afterwards. Though this one would probably be of more interest if you succeeded in getting Yunzi's help.

 

[Nevill]

Actually... Yunzi and Armaiti are the only people in the entire Youxia City who would carry a stranger to where he can get help.

 

[Nevill]

8. Was the man in black who fought Xiaofang the same person?

Almost certainly, yes. I highly doubt that two different people would have access to a rare Xueguizi technique that people in the Central Plains wouldn't be familiar with and use it on two different people on the same day. The person who killed Du Yao and the person who attacked Xiaofang are one and the same.

I am going to say something incredibly far-fetched right now.

We are investigating the theft of the Xiaoming Jiuyang manual. In our travels, we've found Xuezi, who had met the person possessing the Xuanming Jiuyin manual. These two cases might be connected.

Why wouldn't there be an original of the Wuxiang Qiankun manual floating around to ruin our day completely? After all, the scrolls at the temple were but a copy. The skill specifically allows to copy the techniques of others. I would assume that would throw off any investigators when it comes to the method of murder.

 

[Nevill]

Eh, if I am to go off the deep end, so be it.

4. Du Yao was injured with a constable's sword. If the purpose was to frame a constable, why was he not outright killed with one?

I see absolutely no reason for the assassin to utilize swords when he has instant killing technique at his disposal.

Could be that the would-be assassin and Du Yao duked it out over something when Zheng entered the room? Chief moved to assist, but it was dark, so he accidentally got Du Yao instead of the man-in-black. The latter disengaged, killing Du Yao for reasons unknown (to protect his identity? to make it so that Zheng couldn't explain himself?). It would make chief Zheng claim that Du Yao was dead when he came in and that he injured the murderer - obviously he can't say that he attacked Du Yao by accident, that would be signing his own death warrant.

Lady Suien have determined that the person who escaped over the wall was wounded, but the nature of the wound was not specified. Zheng could have gotten them both, or Du Yao may have struck back.

This version would require chief Zheng to lie to us, which is ridiculous considering his own circumstances and that we are not the court, but hey. He said to trust no one.

2. What was it that Du Yao seemed to glean from his discussion with Jiang Zheng, and could it have played a role in his death?

Continuing the previous line of thought, if any of the Jinkong sect members went missing lately, that might explain how the constables were killed with the help of their techniques.

Man, now I regret not investigating them.

 

[TOME]

Having listened to Jiang Zheng quietly, you ask, “What did Du Yao say about the manual?”

“I have reason to believe he is not involved. He seemed to have discovered something during our talk, but he did not talk about it. Instead, he told me to return the next day, once he had gathered his thoughts. If you know Du Yao, you will know that there are some things that you cannot push.”

Did we ever ask what his reason was?

More things to consider.

“Poison.”

Cao’er’s verdict is conclusive.

“It was very fast-acting poison that stopped his heart. He would have been dead within seconds of penetration,” says Qilin. “I am not familiar with the type of poison used, so it’s definitely something not commonly seen in the Central Plains.

If Xiaofang was poisoned with the same poison, why didn't he die within seconds? Because he is an eunuch? Because he didn't get hit with three poison needles?

 

[Absinthe]

Okay, treave's list of questions:

1. Fu Xia left first and Xiaofang left after. "Fu Xia stands up and tries to talk with them, but instead becomes entangled in a fight with the monks. Xiaofang, on the other hand, is just sitting and staring at the chaotic mess all around her."
2. We don't know. To find out, we'd probably need both Jiang Zheng alive and our investigation in Youxia City to continue, so we'd have to vote C. (A loses our constable, B means we all need to leave Youxia City.)
3. My guess is that as a detective his first instincts were to worry about the investigation, which would mean Du Yao.
4. He was probably trying to kill Du Yao with the sword, but when Jiang Zheng entered he had no option and used needles to finish it quick and make a run for it. We know that Du Yao must have died in seconds from the poison, so it was just about the last thing done to him.
5. We still don't know. We should investigate that next, but to do that we need to stay in Youxia City, which means we'd need to vote C.
6. We don't know. I'd guess that these Xueguizi, with their advanced knowledge of medicine, could very well have made the poison also. We do know it's not from the Central Plains. Xuezi's own knowledge of medicine seems to be lacking so I'm guessing poisons aren't her expertise.
7. If I had to guess, Xiaofang was tailing Fu Xia the whole time but lost track of him during the manor. We don't really know.
8. Most likely because the same technique and poison was used on Xiaofang that was used on Du Yao. The timeline matches up, and what else would Xiaofang have been up to during the hour when he should've met Jiang Zheng.
9. Xiaofang was fighting with this man, so he started being injured before the poison set in.
10. Someone else had to do it, obviously. The guess would be Yunzi but we don't really know.

If Xiaofang was poisoned with the same poison, why didn't he die within seconds? Because he is an eunuch? Because he didn't get hit with three poison needles?

My guess is that the perp was running low on poison after nailing Du Yao and Hanbing Needles merges the poison with ice (drawing water from the air), so Xiaofang was on the receiving end of some much-diluted poison.

The other guess would be that the poison attacks those with a yang qi dominant, and Xiaofang as a eunuch could have his yin qi dominant. That would also point to it being a Xueguizi poison because there we have a poison that would target a specific qi and have greatly diminished effect on the Xueguizi. But that's just a theory.

The last guess is that Xiaofang should've died quicker but whoever moved him to the sickhouse managed to administer enough medicine to prolong his lifespan.

Man. Why didn't people want to question Fu Xia earlier? Of course, I don't even remember if I voted to question him or not. Clearly he needs to be questioned. Sadly, the open forum of the trial seems like a poor time and place to break him down, Beretta style. So, the least distasteful option is B.

If Fu Xia needs to be questioned (and I agree - he does), now is the time to do it. If he's guilty, he's going to try to escape before Xiaofang wakes up. Since B causes a ruckus, he'd have a chance to escape right there.

 

[Esquilax]

We don't know. To find out, we'd probably need both Jiang Zheng alive and our investigation in Youxia City to continue, so we'd have to vote C.
...
We still don't know. We should investigate that next, but to do that we need to stay in Youxia City, which means we'd need to be voting C (A loses our constable, B means we all need to leave Youxia City).

We don't know, but we'd have to vote C anyways. Will it give us +1 SWORDS as well? I try to stay relatively fair and give everyone's arguments a fair shake, but you've lost me here and I think that you're not being dispassionate about the matter at all.

I think you're putting your bias against Fu Xia before the case and you're trying to interpret these questions to suit your theory about Fu Xia. Having thought about it further, I am now less convinced that Fu Xia was the culprit; the ability to freeze poisonous liquid for a long enough time for it to remain solid (and therefore, usable as a weapon) would require more skill than a novice would possess. Someone not very proficient would only be able to have the needles for a few seconds, but the killer needed enough time to dip it in poison, get into a fight with Du Yao, then prick him with the needles. If the killer struck Du Yao with the needles after striking him with the sword, then that indicates a certain level of mastery that Fu Xia would be unlikely to possess.

So whoever did this would need (a) access to a rare technique that is difficult to find in the Central Plains, (b) a significant level of proficiency in that technique and (c) Jinkong Sect techniques as well, considering the injuries found on Xiaofang.

tl;dr If we can establish that the killer had a proficiency above that of a novice at the Hanbing Needle technique, I think that we can safely rule out Fu Xia as a suspect. The question is, can we do this?

 

[Esquilax]

Jing felt Xiaofang's qi in Tibet, and felt it was somehow strange.
There was a undercurrent of speculation that Xiaofang has chaotic neigong like Jing.
There's also a sub-undercurrent of speculation that Xiaofang and Jing are related somehow, thus the chaotic neigong.
(also I still think Xiaofang is actually a woman disguising herself as a eunuch disguising herself as a female)

Not quite, Xiaofang's qi is different because he's a eunuch. Yin and yang are associated with female and male, respectively, so it makes sense that a person who's had their balls snipped off but was born male would have unusual qi. It doesn't necessarily mean it's chaotic, it means that it's different. When the killer encountered Xiaofang, he had the intention to murder the eunuch, I just don't think that the killer anticipated that Xiaofang's qi would react differently and allow him to survive what Du Yao wasn't able to.

 

[Nevill]

Jing felt Xiaofang's qi in Tibet, and felt it was somehow strange.
There was a undercurrent of speculation that Xiaofang has chaotic neigong like Jing.
There's also a sub-undercurrent of speculation that Xiaofang and Jing are related somehow, thus the chaotic neigong.

These things are not actually related:

treave, was the qi strangeness we felt when we touched Xiaofang at the tournament related to her gender?

Gender related, yeah. Though it's more of a eunuch thing in this case.

 

[Absinthe]

We don't know, but we'd have to vote C anyways. Will it give us +1 SWORDS as well? I try to stay relatively fair and give everyone's arguments a fair shake, but you've lost me here and I think that you're not being dispassionate about the matter at all.

Am I wrong, Esquilax? These are details that require additional investigation and Jiang Zheng's help, and our leads seem to be inside Youxia City.

I think you're putting your bias against Fu Xia before the case and you're trying to interpret these questions to suit your theory about Fu Xia.

I can only assure you that I am not. I just happen to find that Fu Xia matches the facts of the case, but the reasons I present here for needing to vote C are irrelevant to the issue of Fu Xia's guilt. These new reasons are because we can't continue the investigation here otherwise. I suppose #2 could get investigated outside Youxia City with Jiang Zheng (B), and #6 we might be able to investigate inside Youxia City without Jiang Zheng (A), but if we do vote C, then we can both investigate inside Youxia City and have Jiang Zheng with us.

I think at this point you're just getting annoyed that I am finding so many reasons to be voting C, so instead of considering my reasons, you just want to accuse me of bias and ignore it all.

Having thought about it further, I am now less convinced that Fu Xia was the culprit; the ability to freeze poisonous liquid for a long enough time for it to remain solid (and therefore, usable as a weapon) would require more skill than a novice would possess.

No?

“I see,” nods Lady Suien. “That would explain why the murder weapon could not be found. They melted. How long would a needle take to melt?”

“It can vary,” replies Xuezi. “Expert practitioners can make it last for longer, while amateurs can hold the needle together for no more than scant seconds.”

An amateur level of skill is all that would be necessary.

Someone not very proficient would only be able to have the needles for a few seconds, but the killer needed enough time to dip it in poison, get into a fight with Du Yao, then prick him with the needles.

“Could they freeze poison in liquid form?” asks Lady Suien again. “Could they dip the ice needles in poison?”

“That is all possible,” says Xuezi.

I think it is more likely that they froze the poison as a liquid, and I believe this would reduce the difficulty (and skill level needed) since these Hanbing Needles aren't trying to freeze ice out of the air, but are freezing a liquid they already have on their person.

If the killer struck Du Yao with the needles after striking him with the sword, then that indicates a certain level of mastery that Fu Xia would be unlikely to possess.

I don't see how striking the opponent with a sword increases the difficulty of using the Hanbing Needles technique.

So whoever did this would need (a) access to a rare technique that is difficult to find in the Central Plains, (b) a significant level of proficiency in that technique and (c) Jinkong Sect techniques as well, considering the injuries found on Xiaofang.

Sure, but these guys who went after the manual hunt aren't exactly normal dudes. We also know the Xueguizi are getting involved in the manual hunt and they were connected with someone who had the Xiaoming Jiuyin manual which was in the central plains according to Xuezi.

 

[TOME]

Absinthe, how do you figure C is going to turn out?

 

[Absinthe]

C results in Fu Xia being convicted. The problem is that we don't know if C will prove his guilt, but since he fits the evidence better than Jiang Zheng and they were willing to convict Jiang Zheng, they'd convict Fu Xia even without additional evidence. That would leave Jiang Zheng free to go.

At that point they have their culprit, and they can move on to the next item on the agenda with minimal fuss. We have Jiang Zheng and didn't alienate Youxia City (and the bandit kingdom), so we can continue our investigation into the manual here.

Of course, I am also hoping the interrogation turns up something useful. And I happen to think that Fu Xia most likely did do it. After all, we don't have anyone else that matches the facts of the case.

 

[Nevill]

Alright, so now for the things that I absolutely don't understand.

3. Jiang Zheng snuck back into the manor on 'instinct' when Xiaofang did not turn up, and asked him to meet him at the manor instead of discussing it back at the inn. Was there a reason?

Even after treave pointed out the discrepancies in Zheng's accout, I do not know how to possibly connect the dots. Why would Zheng order Xiaofang to wait him outside of the mansion, and why did he go back in immediately after noticing the eunuch wasn't there?

The possibilities I turn to is that he either did find Xiaofang and issued him an order he does not want to tell us about - and then went back to finish his business with Du Yao. Or that the fact that Xiaofang was not there in itself gave him an idea to get back. Maybe he ordered him to watch the mansion and his absense prompted him to re-check things. Maybe he intended to order Xiaofang to do something mansion-related but was forced to do it himself.

He told us he thought 'something was wrong', but he did not know the eunuch went missing up until we told him, so why did he turn back? What was it that he was wary of?

5. Did Du Yao or any of the other parties involved have any connections with the Xueguizi who invented the Hanbing Needles that took his life?

Even though Youxia City most assuredly deals in the golden fox leaves, as it deals in everything that can be bought with enough money, I can think of no reason why would Du Yao be involved with Xueguizi. There is nothing in what we know that would link him, his clique or anyone from our group to Tiashan - well, before Xuezi showed up, anyway. It should not have been business related.

The only thing that would serve as a reason for murder would be the manual, but Xueguizi were searching for a completely different one, and there is nothing connecting Du Yao to it. Well, nothing that we or Xuezi know of, at any rate.

So whoever did this would need (a) access to a rare technique that is difficult to find in the Central Plains, (b) a significant level of proficiency in that technique and (c) Jinkong Sect techniques as well, considering the injuries found on Xiaofang.

Actually, now that I think of it, Xueguizi turned on Xuezi because they thought she has the Xuanming Jiuyin manual that people from the Central Plains came searching for. But one of the said people had techniques that allegedly came from the same manual. Why would they be searching for it when they have it already? And if they don't, where did they find the techniques?

Yes, I am still pushing for Wuxiang Qiankun angle, which I myself don't quite believe in. A fair number of techniques is probably scattered among the libraries of the world. But I really have trouble picturing Xueguizi going after Du Yao.

Oh, and (c) is probably irrelevant. The Jinkong sect members could have beaten Xiaofang before his encounter with the man-in-black. They could also have done it after the fact, but that would be fucked up.

I have no idea what to make out of it all. Other than that I have to be voting C, obviously.

 

[Esquilax]

Am I wrong, Esquilax? These are details that require additional investigation and Jiang Zheng's help, and our leads seem to be inside Youxia City.
...
I can only assure you that I am not. I just happen to find that Fu Xia matches the facts of the case, but the reasons I present here for needing to vote C are irrelevant to the issue of Fu Xia's guilt. These new reasons are because we can't continue the investigation here otherwise. I suppose #2 could get investigated outside Youxia City with Jiang Zheng (B), and #6 we might be able to investigate inside Youxia City without Jiang Zheng (A), but if we do vote C, then we can both investigate inside Youxia City and have Jiang Zheng with us.

Well, our main leads right now regarding the Jiuyang manual would be Xiaofang and possibly Xuezi (provided that the two incidents were linked) so I'm not sure why this would necessitate remaining in Youxia City. Xiaofang probably knows a lot about the situation and we'd be much closer to cracking the case, the real issue is that this tribunal demands an answer right now. I'm not sure if leaving Youxia City would really be a bad thing for the investigation.

I think at this point you're just getting annoyed that I am finding so many reasons to be voting C, so instead of considering my reasons, you just want to accuse me of bias and ignore it all.

I generally am pretty open-minded with my votes and I flop pretty regularly if someone has managed to put together some good arguments. I still think you have some tunnel vision with regards to Fu Xia. I can't say that he is certainly innocent, but I definitely don't like how you're painting him as definitely guilty either, when we really have no idea whether that's the case or not. If you're willing to go for C with the knowledge that you might be wrong, then fine, but painting Fu Xia's guilt as a sure thing is just a misrepresentation. You've got a few suspicions, but from the judge's POV at the moment, the situation certainly looks far worse for Jiang Zheng considering he was at the scene of the crime with a murder weapon in hand.

An amateur level of skill is all that would be necessary.
...
I think it is more likely that they froze the poison as a liquid, and I believe this would reduce the difficulty (and skill level needed) since these Hanbing Needles aren't trying to freeze ice out of the air, but are freezing a liquid they already have on their person. That would also put it more within an amateur's skill level.
...
Sure, but these guys who went after the manual hunt aren't exactly normal dudes. We also know the Xueguizi are getting involved in the manual hunt and they were connected with someone who had the Xiaoming Jiuyin manual which was in the central plains according to Xuezi.

That's a possibility. However, what I was saying was that if the killer attacked Du Yao with swords and fist first, then he would have had to have the poison needles already prepared beforehand (i.e. the killer would have needed enough skill to keep the needles in a solid state until he had the chance to pull them out and use them). I'm not sure if they can be prepared during combat: treave, can a practitioner of Hanbing Needles prepare the ice needles in the middle of combat, or does it require concentration? If the killer had the darts prepared beforehand, attacked Du Yao with his sword, then pricked him in the neck with the needles, it implies a high level of skill in the technique because of the length of time the needles would have to remain solid.

On that note, if we can demonstrate that the series of events was [Killer solidifies poison into needles > Killer strikes Du Yao with kicks and sword > Killer hits Du Yao with needles] then that gives us an idea of his level of skill at the technique. A novice wouldn't be able to keep the needles solid for that long.

Given how rare the technique is and how secretive the Xueguizi are, it isn't something that a constable like Fu Xia would really have access to, even if he was a spy for someone.

 

[Absinthe]

Well, our main leads right now regarding the Jiuyang manual would be Xiaofang and possibly Xuezi (provided that the two incidents were linked) so I'm not sure why this would necessitate remaining in Youxia City.

Well, it would mean we would be unable to investigate any of the leads from Youxia City, and if I had to guess, I'd say that's important.

Xiaofang probably knows a lot about the situation and we'd be much closer to cracking the case, the real issue is that this tribunal demands an answer right now. I'm not sure if leaving Youxia City would really be a bad thing for the investigation.

If Xiaofang already knew these things, we wouldn't've needed to investigate Youxia City in the first place. It seems like you're banking on Xiaofang to have learned a lot in his first night, but I just get the feeling that what Xiaofang knows (other than the perp, which would come too late) would still need additional investigation.

I generally am pretty open-minded with my votes and I flop pretty regularly if someone has managed to put together some good arguments. I still think you have some tunnel vision with regards to Fu Xia.

Same here, but I still don't see such a good reason to vote B or A, but I am finding more reasons not to.

I can't say that he is certainly innocent, but I definitely don't like how you're painting him as definitely guilty either, when we really have no idea whether that's the case or not.

I can't say he's definitely guilty. I can say they'll definitely convict him as guilty, and I can also say he has the highest probability of being guilty. All the options are crappy in my opinion, but C manages to be the best option out of them and I think it can solve the case, so yes I'll vote C.

• A I find distasteful since we are convicting a guy we know to be innocent.
• B I find to be extremely problematic in the results. It fucks the whole trial and even lands Shun with a rep hit. Plus it ends our investigation in Youxia City for the manual, which is the reason we came here.
• C would have us convict a guy who could actually have done it, who has been suspicious for many reasons, and would end the case with the least fuss. It would also let us continue the investigation we came here for in the first place.

At the very least, I see no reason to vote A over C. The only reason to vote B is because you really want to protect Fu Xia since we don't have definitive evidence.

If you're willing to go for C with the knowledge that you might be wrong, then fine,

I am. Besides, as the constables, it's our duty to put forth the most guilty suspect at the trial. That would be Fu Xia in this case. We also know there had to be a mole, and it is extremely likely that the mole and Du Yao's assassination are connected. If the mole is in our party, it would have to be Fu Xia.

And we still don't have any good scenarios for what else Fu Xia could have been doing the entire time that he was gone. Brawling is ruled out because he should really be more than lightly injured if he brawled that long against monks who had him on the defensive.

You've got a few suspicions, but from the judge's POV at the moment, the situation certainly looks far worse for Jiang Zheng considering he was at the scene of the crime with a murder weapon in hand.

Jiang Zheng doesn't match the evidence of the escaping perpetrator or the evidence that Xiaofang and Du Yao were most likely attacked by the same person. Fu Xia does.

That's a possibility. However, what I was saying was that if the killer attacked Du Yao with swords and fist first, then he would have had to have the poison needles already prepared beforehand (i.e. the killer would have needed enough skill to keep the needles in a solid state until he had the chance to pull them out and use them). I'm not sure if they can be prepared during combat: treave, can a practitioner of Hanbing Needles prepare the ice needles in the middle of combat, or does it require concentration? If the killer had the darts prepared beforehand, attacked Du Yao with his sword, then pricked him in the neck with the needles, it implies a high level of skill in the technique because of the length of time the needles would have to remain solid.

My impression has been that they are a combat technique, so they would be used in combat. Otherwise you'd be better off carrying your own needles for the most part which makes this a shitty technique. Other than that, I think that making the needles out of liquid would be easier and would extend how long you can keep it in needle form. Well, treave can tell us.

Given how rare the technique is and how secretive the Xueguizi are, it isn't something that a constable like Fu Xia would really have access to, even if he was a spy for someone.

Why wouldn't he have access to the technique if he was a spy for someone else with the technique?

 

[TOME]

The more I think about this the less it makes sense. The only thing I'm certain is that Du Yao was killed because he figured out something after he talked with Jiang Zheng. The killer had very short window of opportunity so he/she had to be listening in on the conversation, or the killer was someone from inside the manor, whom Du Yao invited to the study after Jiang Zheng left.

Du Yao probably isn't 24/7 under surveillance so the killer had to have upfront knowledge of the meeting. But we already know there is a mole inside the constabulary who could have leaked a time frame for the assassin for staking out the manor so this bit of information doesn't tell us anything.

So basically I got nothing.

 

[Absinthe]

TOME, if the mole informed the killer of the specific time of Jiang Zheng's meeting with Du Yao (or was the killer himself), the mole would have to be in our party. While other investigators would know that Jiang Zheng was coming, they wouldn't be able to pinpoint the specific time of the meeting. Of our party, Lady Suien we can rule out. Xiaofang we can rule out also. That would leave Fu Xia as the mole.