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[LP CYOA] 傳

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
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You mean using the skill that increases our learning abilities had a smaller chance of giving us +1 SWORDS!?
 

Sunnmøring

Novice
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
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A2 at least stands a chance of being +1 swords.

We use the sword against him in A1 as well? Assuming that we're copying his sword moves. Shouldn't that still work out?

But for the most part I expect A1 to fail somehow because fucking Bai Jiutian would have to be retarded to just let that work on him, so we get dragged into the same fight as A2, except he knows we have Wuxiang Qiankun now. It's fucking dumb.

If he's trying to beat us while we have the skill (I think it's more likely he'd suggest a partnership or something if it looks like he's being overcome or else just run off with his better speed if things look bad for him) and he's somehow managed to prepare something to make Wuxiang Qiankun not work, doesn't that mean we're super screwed in a fight? It's better to not fight at all if we have the chance, but going into it without the skill will be really bad for our chances of winning.

If the votes are still open, I'm going to go ahead and vote again for B1>A1.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
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Jan 6, 2012
Messages
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You mean using the skill that increases our learning abilities had a smaller chance of giving us +1 SWORDS!?
Well, treave will give us his rationale when the update appears, but as I see it, in A1 if Wuxiang Qiankun does work then we are not using our own sword skills as much as we would in A2 because we are just copying Bai Jiutian's techniques to cover the gaps. In A2, we rely much more on our own raw sword skills to face off against Bai Jiutian and facing a more skilled opponent would force us to improve.

Now if A1 backfires because of BJ's lolsurprise (we know he has something up his sleeves for this; that much is obvious), then I really don't think we'd improve.

If he's trying to beat us while we have the skill (I think it's more likely he'd suggest a partnership or something if it looks like he's being overcome or else just run off with his better speed if things look bad for him)
I think Bai Jiutian would be fucking retarded to maneuver himself into a position of weakness by trying to goad us into using Wuxiang Qiankun. Remember, he's trying to make us use it, and Bai Jiutian does not trust Jing at all. There is no way he would intentionally put himself in a position where his best bet is to count on Jing's goodwill and kindness.

and he's somehow managed to prepare something to make Wuxiang Qiankun not work, doesn't that mean we're super screwed in a fight? It's better to not fight at all if we have the chance, but going into it without the skill will be really bad for our chances of winning.
My most likely scenario for how A1 will turn into surprise failure is that Bai Jiutian will turn out to have been holding back his qi to bait us into using Wuxiang Qiankun, and then he will simply immediately raise his qi to negate our Wuxiang Qiankun (can't use it on people who have as much qi as you do) at an opportune moment during the sword fight and in that moment when we are caught off-guard, Bai Jiutian fucks us up before we can recover.
 
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Kipeci

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May 22, 2012
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Vicksburg
A2 at least stands a chance of being +1 swords.
Making full use of many different styles of sword techniques pilfered from an extremely skilled foe who's a master of the blade will obviously do nothing to help out on that front, yep.

But for the most part I expect Wuxiang Qiankun to fail somehow because fucking Bai Jiutian would have to be retarded to just let that work on him, so we get dragged into the same fight as A2, except he knows we have Wuxiang Qiankun now. It's fucking dumb.
And what about this makes you think it's by necessity a fight to the death or something? He wants to confirm that we have the move and get past the great front of bullshit that Jing was spewing when he was talking. So he fights, we confirm it, his reason for fighting is over aside from maybe wanting to beat Jing around the head a bit for some exercise or something... which would be much harder to do if we actually used the skill. You say that he'll have a counter for it. Okay, how would one go about countering this? How do you counter a move where your opponent gets to copy all of your moves at full strength and skill? And if he's set to do that, how do you think we even have a chance without using the skill?
 

Absinthe

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Kipeci, Wuxiang Qiankun practices Bai Jiutian's sword technique. Remember when we learned the Wuying Leipo Kick and got it all the way up to Rank 8? And yet our unarmed skill was unaffected by learning a technique above our skill? Or how we just got Xianglong 18 Palms up to rank 9 and Shouwang Claws up to rank 10? The pattern is: You don't make huge progress on skills by learning techniques. Instead, you raise your skills to improve the cap on your techniques. The only reason we got +1 sword skill from learning a sword tech was because of the Jueshi Wugong Sword Song, and that specifically only applied to the first sword technique we learn.

And what about this makes you think it's by necessity a fight to the death or something? He wants to confirm that we have the move and get past the great front of bullshit that Jing was spewing when he was talking. So he fights, we confirm it, his reason for fighting is over
Let me tell you why I think A1 is not going to abort the fight into a peaceful discourse: Because the peaceful option for informing Bai Jiutian we have Wuxiang Qiankun is B1. If you pick A1, then you pick that Jing exposes his secret and goes for the fight anyway.
 
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Kipeci

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Kipeci, Wuxiang Qiankun practices Bai Jiutian's sword technique. Remember when we learned the Wuying Leipo Kick and got it all the way up to Rank 8? And yet our unarmed skill was unaffected by this learning?

We got it all the way up to Rank 8 at exactly the same time we went up in unarmed. Any amount of practicing with one technique or another contributes (to some degree or another) the rapidity with which we progress in the skill. If we didn't make use of our martial arts techniques, you would probably find that we wouldn't have been offered as many opportunities to rise up in skill because we'd be getting less practice with fighting in general.

The very useful thing about WQ is that it has the capacity to expose us to physically, perfectly practice a lot of different styles and moves in a relatively short time period in an actual fight. I see no reason why waving our sword around with BJ's techniques should contribute less than waving the sword around with Jing's.

Regardless, I don't think that treave is too eager to be throwing out any sword upgrades for either way here, especially after that rollback.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
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Hm, I suppose you're right on the reload point. Well, we'll see later. The +1 swords is all a side-issue anyway.

And while Wuxiang Qiankun is useful as you say, I don't think we're at a level to really see those kinds of benefits to general skills just yet. For now it just improves learning speed for techniques and lets Jing copycat some opponents.

The bigger issue is that in A1 we are playing exactly into Bai Jiutian's hands which is why I find A1 to be such a mind-numbingly retarded move. I can't believe the amount of people who are essentially saying "yes bai jiutian will totally maneuver himself into a position of weakness on purpose" using logic like "well sure he'd lose but Bai Jiutian's intention is just to get confirmation and then try to talk it out with us" - the two problems being: if you want conversation you should be voting B1, and Bai Jiutian does not trust Jing anywhere near enough to simply depend on Jing's goodwill to avoid getting his ass kicked. Treave already confirmed that he is watching our every movement and came prepared for the chance that we would try to poison him. That's how little he trusts us. There's no fucking way he would try to goad Jing into using Wuxiang Qiankun unless he has something planned for it.
 
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Kipeci

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The bigger issue is that in A1 we are playing exactly into Bai Jiutian's hands which is why I find A1 to be such a mind-numbingly retarded move. I can't believe the amount of people who are essentially saying "yes bai jiutian will totally maneuver himself into a position of weakness on purpose" using logic like "well sure he'd lose but Bai Jiutian's intention is just to get confirmation and then try to talk it out with us" - the two problems being: if you want conversation you should be voting B1, and Bai Jiutian does not trust Jing anywhere near enough to simply depend on Jing's goodwill to avoid getting his ass kicked.

You're just not getting it. I don't want just conversation; I want to train WQ to make it reach its full nightmarish extent. If BJ tries to talk to us once he figures out we have it to come to some sort of understanding, that's fine by me but it's a secondary concern. He just wants to know if we have it; once that's learned, there's nothing gluing him to the spot to get mercilessly pummeled by Jing. He can note the skill could come in handy against such a powerful family as the Zhang clan, he could run for the hills with his superior agility, if we are overtaking him in a fight he has plenty of ways to try to handle it.

Treave already confirmed that he is watching our every movement and came prepared for the chance that we would try to poison him. That's how little he trusts us. There's no fucking way he would try to goad Jing into using Wuxiang Qiankun unless he has something planned for it.

The 'something' he has planned for it is to see it. What sort of trap are you expecting him to trigger that will suddenly disable the skill and render Jing weaker than A1? You keep repeating over and over again that he's going to screw us if we use the technique, okay. Tell us, how is he going to do that? It's one thing to take antidotes as a preparation, it's quite another to devise a way to disable these legendary techniques.
 

Azira

Arcane
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Codex 2012
How I see Absinthe's argumentation:

"BJ wants Jing to show him the WQ skill. The CYOA fails and ends terribly if we do that. So, whatever you do, never vote for using the WQ skill!"
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
You're just not getting it. I don't want just conversation; I want to train WQ to make it reach its full nightmarish extent.
We can train it against Yunzi. She'll be more than happy to give us a real fight. Bai Jiutian is not the right person for this.

The 'something' he has planned for it is to see it. What sort of trap are you expecting him to trigger that will suddenly disable the skill and render Jing weaker than A1? You keep repeating over and over again that he's going to screw us if we use the technique, okay. Tell us, how is he going to do that? It's one thing to take antidotes as a preparation, it's quite another to devise a way to disable these legendary techniques.
Well, I'm quoting my own post on this exact page, but here you go:
My most likely scenario for how A1 will turn into surprise failure is that Bai Jiutian will turn out to have been holding back his qi to bait us into using Wuxiang Qiankun, and then he will simply immediately raise his qi to negate our Wuxiang Qiankun (can't use it on people who have as much qi as you do) at an opportune moment during the sword fight and in that moment when we are caught off-guard, Bai Jiutian fucks us up before we can recover.


How I see Absinthe's argumentation:

"BJ wants Jing to show him the WQ skill. The CYOA fails and ends terribly if we do that. So, whatever you do, never vote for using the WQ skill!"
Feel free to quote where I said that. I'll be waiting. While I wouldn't completely rule out the chance that A1 will get us killed and end the CYOA right now, I mostly expect that this is the kind of decision that will land us in loads of deep shit. Considering how we have been warned how incredibly dangerous it is to get involved in the manual hunt, this is the kind of decision that will put our whole party in massive danger and likely result in Jing losing.

How I see people who vote for A1: "Well sure there are a number of huge warning signs, but eh, I'm sure using a super-move will work out for the best"
 
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Azira

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Codex 2012
The difference between A1 and A2 from Jings perspective is whether Jing holds back or does not.

A1 is using everything at Jings disposal.
A2 is using everything but the WQ skill.

BJ is emanating danger. Don't think he'll be less pissed with Jing if Jing tries to troll by not using the WQ skill.

Heck, once BJ sees what he wants to see, he might call for a break in the fighting and resume real talking instead. You don't know BJ. I don't. What I do know is that Jing has been trolling him time and time again, and now BJ seems to've had his fill.

And about the manual hunt? Jing's already involved. Deeply. Deal with it.
 

Absinthe

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The difference between A1 and A2 from Jings perspective is whether Jing holds back or does not.

A1 is using everything at Jings disposal.
A2 is using everything but the WQ skill.

BJ is emanating danger. Don't think he'll be less pissed with Jing if Jing tries to troll by not using the WQ skill.
It's a fight. This isn't about Bai Jiutian's emotions. Hell, let me quote treave again about bullshit scenarios where we cannot touch Bai Jiutian without Wuxiang Qiankun:
If you don't think you can land a single hit on him without using Wuxiang Qiankun then the most that A1 can do is perhaps help you stalemate him or not lose as badly, and A2 is suicide. In that case, do consider C.

Or D.



Heck, once BJ sees what he wants to see, he might call for a break in the fighting and resume real talking instead. You don't know BJ. I don't. What I do know is that Jing has been trolling him time and time again, and now BJ seems to've had his fill.
I'll quote myself from this page again:
I can't believe the amount of people who are essentially saying "yes bai jiutian will totally maneuver himself into a position of weakness on purpose" using logic like "well sure he'd lose but Bai Jiutian's intention is just to get confirmation and then try to talk it out with us" - the two problems being: if you want conversation you should be voting B1, and Bai Jiutian does not trust Jing anywhere near enough to simply depend on Jing's goodwill to avoid getting his ass kicked.



And about the manual hunt? Jing's already involved. Deeply. Deal with it.
How the fuck you keep misinterpreting my statements this hard right now is beyond me Azira, but I'm pretty sure you stopped trying to read what I'm saying and are only looking for what you want to see. Now, of course Jing is involved, but right now he is on the side that is hunting for a manual. Vote A1 and he becomes the hunted. Do you understand how this is a shift in our situation?
 
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Akkudakku

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
1,125
You fucking dicks, thanks for delaying the update for 24h!
:mob:

On a more serious not +1 swords is not the most important thing in the world. I'd rather we make WQ a more often used skill, so if it bekomes known we have it now then by all means we will be FINALLY able to train it properly ;P

Also again thanks for delaying the update by 24h you dicks, A1 will still win anyway...
 

treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
Current tally:

A1 - 9
A2 - 5
B1 - 4
B2 - 3
Bx - 1


Post-flip (1):

A1 - 10
A2 - 5
B1 - 6
B2 - 1
 

asxetos

Augur
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Greece
A2 voters are probably forgetting that we are coming from a rollback and treave will probably screw us.
I voted A2 on the initial vote because i thought it was the best but now i definitely wont vote for it.
 

Jester

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
1,493
hmmm btw does anyone know what exactly those super techs does? Our probably lets learn? Shaolin is some kind of boost to neigong/end? Last one was used to seal kid elder so some pp or other people qi control?
 

TOME

Cuckmaster General
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My most likely scenario for how A1 will turn into surprise failure is that Bai Jiutian will turn out to have been holding back his qi to bait us into using Wuxiang Qiankun, and then he will simply immediately raise his qi to negate our Wuxiang Qiankun (can't use it on people who have as much qi as you do) at an opportune moment during the sword fight and in that moment when we are caught off-guard, Bai Jiutian fucks us up before we can recover.

This is what bugs me the most. How would Bai Jiutian know exactly how the technique works? How would he know to hold back his qi in order to bait Jing into usin WQS? How would he know Jing can't copy moves from higher neiggong? It sounds to me that you have taken this number crunching too far and think that Bai Jiutian can pull Jing's character sheet out of his her ass.
 

Absinthe

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TOME, if he didn't know much about Wuxiang Qiankun he wouldn't've guessed we used it on Zhang's bodyguards. If he tries to take on someone who he thinks has the Wuxiang Qiankun, he'd be stupid not to have done some research on how it might be stopped. It seems to me that the more serious and well-connected manual hunters would, in fact, have some basic info on these manuals. That doesn't mean he knows exactly how it works, but it would suggest he knows some of the limitations and roughly what it does. Are you really surprised that a manual hunter might have some actual info about a manual?

Uh, asxetos, I don't think that's how treave operates. Treave, correct me if I'm wrong but you don't turn options into losing options just to punish people for the reload, right? It seems to me that bad luck would just happen with any option, yes?
 
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Akkudakku

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
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TOME, if he didn't know much about Wuxiang Qiankun he wouldn't've guessed we used it on Zhang's bodyguards. If he tries to take on someone who he thinks has the Wuxiang Qiankun, he'd be stupid not to have done some research on how it might be stopped. It seems to me that the more serious and well-connected manual hunters would, in fact, have some basic info on these manuals. That doesn't mean he knows exactly how it works, but it would suggest he knows some of the limitations and roughly what it does. Are you really surprised that a manual hunter might have some actual info about a manual?

Uh, asxetos, I don't think that's how treave operates. Treave, correct me if I'm wrong but you don't turn options into losing options just to punish people for the reload, right? It seems to me that bad luck would just happen with any option, yes?
He still has no idea what we used actually - he doesnt know how it works or what it was, he is eager to learn tough.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
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Messages
4,062
He isn't certain that we used it, but for the time being he seems to be operating on the assumption that we have Wuxiang Qiankun. See: Bai Jiutian's dialogue. Additionally, any manual hunter would, you know, actually collect info on the manuals and what they do.
 

treave

Arcane
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Codex 2012
Yeah, if I am to punish people for the reload, it's going to happen regardless of which choice you pick.

You don't get off just because you made the 'right' choice after voting to wimp out of a 'wrong' one... is what I would think, if that's what I plan to do.
 

asxetos

Augur
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
820
Location
Greece
I dont think that A2 is a losing option, i just think that treave's toll will be bigger than in A1 or Bx.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
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Jan 6, 2012
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So... you're saying he will punish voters more if they vote A2?

I thought he just indicated that's not how it works.
 

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