[LP CYOA] 傳

[Tigranes]

Update already says no disciples. Heck, they may not let him leave the Temple for a while. I'm just hoping it's possible to assemble a Xu Jing A-Team of the three secret technique wielders for the grand finale.

 

[Kz3r0]

treave, with the help of Xuezi can we teach Xuxian, before the trial begins, the rudiments of our own legendary skill, in exchange for his knowledge of course?


In this way he should be able to control the technique better.

 

[Jester]

"Formations" is such a broad term, encompassing a huge variety of techniques, just like with individual martial arts. Just because you know how to counter the Guihe Formation doesn't mean that you have the experience to counter the Eighteen Bronze Arhat Formation that we've never seen before. And really, Xuxian has seen this technique far more often than we have, seeing as he's lived in the temple for so long.

Emmm if there is any monk with lower neigong than our we can learn this formation by heart if necessary and seeing a tech dont mean he is able to overcome it, just that it will be a little bit more probable. Still i expect that if we will perform their 18 person formation by self we will clear that prove your superiority wining condition and they will stand down.

And i think all dont get that we dont need to defeat them, but prove virtue of character. The question is what will more likely convince his brothers of that? Facing person he attacked once or defeating formation?

As one grand person said "Still, we are all only human. Boy, please forgive us our weaknesses and sins." i expect that abbot persuasion is more convincing.

 

[Absinthe]

"Formations" is such a broad term, encompassing a huge variety of techniques, just like with individual martial arts. Just because you know how to counter the Guihe Formation doesn't mean that you have the experience to counter the Eighteen Bronze Arhat Formation that we've never seen before. And really, Xuxian has seen this technique far more often than we have, seeing as he's lived in the temple for so long:

Xuxian was never a skilled martial artist. He may have become much better by learning these techniques, but that was largely an increase in raw power. Even if his skills have improved, you're trying to suggest his skills are good enough to face the entire 18man formation, which requires some master-level skill. Stop trying to downplay the word "formation" to mean "a bunch of guys fighting Xuxian together." This is some serious teamwork where all 18 fight as one. And we all know that Jing has much more experience facing large numbers of enemies at the same time and dismantling formations. Sure, we haven't seen or learned this one before, but that hasn't stopped us from breaking other formations either.

Of course, we'll see what our options are when it's crunch time, but given the fact that Xuxian seems more nervous about facing the Abbot and both trials are of equal difficulty, combined with the fact that our brutal techniques are less likely to harm the Abbot, it makes A1 the clear choice.

No, dude. The philosophical outlook of this is complete shit. The trial is about learning to control your strength, not "how to go balls-out crazy and hope to somehow defeat your opponent without injuring him too much because hopefully his defenses are in the perfect sweet spot of being weak enough for you to overcome yet strong enough to endure your onslaught without injury." That's not only some massive wishful thinking, it also shows that you have completely failed to understand the point of the trial.

If we're going to accept this challenge, our fates are intertwined, so his responsibility is our responsibility too. The entire point of this trial is to show that Xuxian is fit to possess the technique by testing both his power and his mercy. If either of us are lacking in these attributes, we're screwed. Xuxian may have beaten the Abbot before, but he lacked control and mercy in doing so (and the Abbot may have been holding back as well, according to Xuxian). What I'm concerned about is that he might overcompensate for his previous mistake by lacking power this time.

Sharing responsibility is well and good and all, but facing the Abbot is part of Xuxian's personal journey for growth, and we shouldn't take that away from him.

On the other hand, given the Abbot's strong constitution and defensive neigong, we have a bit more free reign to let loose without breaking the rules of the test. The same cannot be said for A2.

Letting loose is exactly what we are not supposed to do. This is how we will fail the test in A1. A2 we can overcome with cleverness and other techniques like the Wuying Leipo Kick (which moves in a way formations are weak against) and rank 9 Xianglong 18 Palms (which is said to be the strongest palm technique in the 8 sects). Just by quickly taking down a few guys we can really break apart their formation.

My point with that example is that we beat Guo Fu in such a way that he acknowledged that we defeated him, and that we did so without harming him.

And my point is that there were a lot of factors going into our victory (ring-out victory condition, superior speed, inferior lethality, superior skill) that enabled us to take him on in a way like that. Expecting to be able to take on the Abbot the exact same way and succeeding in just the right way is just silly. You're too hung up on using your lethal ZJ techniques. These are exactly the techniques we have to avoid using in this trial. This trial is about proving your restraint.

In the end, A2 is the clear option. Xuxian has defeated the abbot before. He can defeat the abbot again, and better control means he's more able to refrain from injuring the abbot this time. At the same time, Jing can face the 18man formation. Not only can we use Wuxiang Qiankun on the formation, but we also have a lot of experience facing formations and multiple opponents in general, so we know how to handle these kinds of things (unlike Xuxian who would be overwhelmed). Both of us go where we have the most experience (facing abbot for Xuxian, facing formations for Jing) and both of us can afford to hold back there (If Xuxian defeated the abbot before, he can afford to practice restraint, and if Jing faces weaker individuals, he can afford to avoid using his Shouwang Claws).

 

[Fangshi]

B

It is tempting to go with the A choices. I like Xuxian, at least from what little we have seen, but we don't really know enough about him to know if he will succeed even if we do. Alternatively he may succeed and we fail, dragging him down with us.

I am actually inclined to agree with the Abbot, this is not our sin to redeem, it is not our problem to fix.

Xuxian has to prove to them and himself that he does in fact have control over his abilities, the way to do that is to have him undergo the test and succeed by himself. By all means we should give him as much coaching and training as will be helpful but this seems like something he should do not Jing.

 

[Baltika9]

I am actually inclined to agree with the Abbot, this is not our sin to redeem, it is not our problem to fix.

Xuxian has to prove to them and himself that he does in fact have control over his abilities, the way to do that is to have him undergo the test and succeed by himself. By all means we should give him as much coaching and training as will be helpful but this seems like something he should do not Jing.

You do have a point here. The only rap I'm voting for A in the first place is because I'm greedy and hungry for that Jiuying neigong boost. And we all know what they say about greed.

 

[Absinthe]

After thinking it again, doesnt Xuxian know the 18-man formation (maybe not practiced it but he definitely saw it in action)? This should help him just enough to find an opening to take out a few of the Arhats and have a chance. Also i agree with Esquilax that the Abbot can take an almost full on Jing assault without much harm.
With that in mind, I am flopping to A1.

I doubt this formation can be taken on with anything short of master-level skill. Breaking apart formations without harming their members is not viable unless you really know what you're doing. Jing has 8 skill, 8 int, 7-9 perception, and a lot of experience against multiple opponents and formation techniques. Xuxian is in a much worse position than us for this.

A1

I was debating between Options 1 and 2 but Esquilax's and Nevill's Points have swayed me to their points of view.

Esquilax's point is that we should use the Shouwang Claws. Don't do it man. The theme of the challenge is restraint. A2 lets us face weaker opponents where we wont need claws to take them down. That's where we should go.

I can't grasp the reasoning behind letting Xuxian fight the Abbott again. As was already mentioned, he is terrified of him. His motivation for this fight is at its lowest, even though his life is on the line. This was also Yifang's downfall - despite her skills being well-suited for the fight on paper, her personality and the circumstances of the fight were such that they the skills end up not mattering all that much. You need to be in a certain state of mind to have the best chance at victory, and though the opponents are similarly difficult, fighting the Abbott poses additional challenges for Xuxian that are not there for us. Why place him in that kind of predictment without need?

Actually, you should reread Xuxian's fear:

“Didn’t you beat the Abbot before? Just go even more lightly on him this time around,” you whisper.

“I am pretty sure he was holding back at the time,” mutters Xuxian nervously. “To take both him and the Eighteen Arhats on without injuring any of them… I don’t know if I can do that.”

Xuxian is not afraid of facing the abbot. He is afraid of his odds facing both the abbot and the 18man formation.

 

[Baltika9]

Ahem. At Unarmed 8 we can modify all Shouwang moves to be non lethal.

 

[Akkudakku]

Ahem. At Unarmed 8 we can modify all Shouwang moves to be non lethal.

Not when we need them fully powered to penetrate someones defense

 

[Baltika9]

And still, the Abbot is a much better target to withstand our whole arsenalthan the eighteen fighters. They too have the Jinzhongzhao that will need our all to penetrate. Only the chances of injuring them are much higher.

 

[Absinthe]

Using your whole arsenal is missing the whole point of the trial. Also, we have regular qi leeching and Xianglong 18 Palms (worked against Xsaora Vairya, remember?) to take on normal people with Jinzhongzhao.

 

[Akkudakku]

And still, the Abbot is a much better target to withstand our whole arsenalthan the eighteen fighters. They too have the Jinzhongzhao that will need our all to penetrate. Only the chances of injuring them are much higher.

Not if their neigong is low. Then either WQ to find a weekness of the tech or just make OURSELF indestrucrible or nonlethal kicks and palms.
Also the point would be to just distrupt their formation and not disable each and everyone of them.

 

[Absinthe]

Actually we need 6 endurance to use Jinzhongzhao. We can't copy that. :-(

But yeah, weaker neigong makes them much more vulnerable to leeching and palms.

 

[Baltika9]

Rob Halford doesn't have the Jinzhongzhao, he's just a tough motherfucker. I think we're starting to get lost in our own rhetoric:

Fangci’s booming laugh echoes around the hall, amused by your request. “Do you think it easy, Xu Jing? This trial necessitates that you prove you are worthy of using a technique in a way that does not disgrace Shaolin’s name. It means that you must not harm or kill your opponent in the trial, that you demonstrate skill and mercy in your wugong. Are you confident that you can defeat us in such a manner, with your half-hearted mastery of martial arts, Xuxian?”

Nothing here prevents us from using our full arsenal. We just can't maim or kill or opponents. Since the Abbot looks like he's related to LORD Zhang Jue, I think we're good if we fight him.

 

[Absinthe]

Right, you just want to use Shouwang Claws without harming or killing your opponent by holding back against an extremely strong opponent.

I think those are unreasonable expectations, Baltika9. Switch gears to A2 and we won't even have this problem.

 

[Baltika9]

Using it in a non lethal way against the Abbot isn't at all unreasonable. What I'm saying is that we can afford to not hold back as much against him as we would have to against the eighteen Arhats, them being junior fighters. This dude is approximately on our level so we can use ensuring we have on him. That's it.

 

[Absinthe]

Shouwang Claws is weak shit unless you use it seriously. Use it seriously: Fail at restraint. Use it nonlethally: Fail at power. The more power you want to draw out of that technique, the more you have to sacrifice your restraint. Seriously, this is not the right tool for the trial.

You are way too hung up on using Shouwang Claws, Baltika.

 

[Baltika9]

Uh. That's not what I'm saying at all. Shouwang is just one tool in our box. My point is that we can go all our on the Abbot, whereas we will have to hold back against the eighteen Arhats, giving them a lot of opportunities to take us down. What I'm saying is that is rather face one fighter of approximately or level without having to hold back, than face eighteen junior fighters that we have to go easy on.

 

[Absinthe]

Except we have experience versus formations and groups. And Xuxian has experience versus the abbot.

 

[Nevill]

*Sigh.*

The opponents are said to be of equal difficulty overall. They are not going to be easier or tougher to defeat if there are no additional factors.

All I am saying is that it is easier for Xuxian to face 18 random dudes than 1 Abbott. It makes no difference to Jing.

And we have to think for both fighters here.

 

[tropic]

He doesn't fight both at the same time:

Masters of Shaolin“That is…” Fangci falls silent for a while, before saying, “Trial by combat. First, face the Eighteen Bronze Arhat Formation, and then battle the current Abbot. Huichan was the first in temple history to convince an Abbot in such a trial.” Then he adds, with a wry smile, “After that, Fangzhang followed suit, and was the only one to ever actually defeat a presiding Abbot soundly.”

 

[Nevill]

Also, Yifang had most experience with a sword out of our party members, and Jing had more experience with qi leeching during the fight with Ahura.

Didn't help them any. It is not the ultimate answer.

 

[Absinthe]

Yifang's experience with the sword did work, and in the end Yifang was the best pick to win the fight without antagonizing them, which is quite valuable when we ask them to trust us. Plus we got Yifang relationship points.

All I am saying is that it is easier for Xuxian to face 18 random dudes than 1 abbott.

And I completely disagree here. My biggest concern is in fact that Xuxian is better of facing the abbot (who he has defeated before) than facing an 18-man formation (not "random dudes") without trying to harm or kill any of them. At the same time, Jing is much better off facing the formation because not only does he have a lot of experience facing multiple opponents and dismantling formations, but moves like the Wuying Leipo Kick are hard to deal with and our Xianglong 18 Palms (which are said to be the strongest palm technique in the 8 sects) should be enough to overcome these opponents.

 

[Akkudakku]

Flop B > A2.

Please guys reiterate what we hope to gain with going A. He can't tech us anyway as Abbt disallowed this.

 

[Absinthe]

A ton of Shaolin rep, for one, but actually:

Fangci’s booming laugh echoes around the hall, amused by your request. “Do you think it easy, Xu Jing? This trial necessitates that you prove you are worthy of using a technique in a way that does not disgrace Shaolin’s name. It means that you must not harm or kill your opponent in the trial, that you demonstrate skill and mercy in your wugong. Are you confident that you can defeat us in such a manner, with your half-hearted mastery of martial arts, Xuxian?”

[...]

“If you succeed, I am willing to spare you on the condition that you can never impart that skill to anyone else… I may trust you to use it wisely, but any disciples you take are another matter,” says the Abbot.

So the trial is to prove that Xuxian is worthy of bearing the skills. And the reason he is not permitted to teach others is because they are not proven trustworthy. Then he tells us this:

“If you are to share in the trial, you must also share in the punishment, should he or you fail. Are you willing to do so, Xu Jing? If you fail, we will consider you as having failed our precepts, under our teachings, and inflict upon you the same punishment as Xuxian.”

Now, on the other side of this logic, it means that if we succeed, then they will be forced to consider Jing as having upheld their precepts under their teachings for Xuxian's skill.

So we would have proven ourselves worthy of the skill just like Xuxian, which in turn means Xuxian would have to be permitted to teach us.