[LP CYOA] 傳

[Zero Credibility]

A votes are tied, so if we are voting A we are basically flipping a coin to see if we get him and us crippled. If B is definitely a failure for him then I could vote to help him in A. But A voters need to make up their minds first on how to proceed. Otherwise I'm sticking with B.

An unrelated question. If we still had our qi suppression pills with us and we fed them to the guy before the fight, would that prevent him from using his technique?

 

[Tribute]

but with Jing and Xuezi helping him to attain further control and mastery over his power, he has a good chance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't treave pointed out that there's no time to do this?

 

[treave]

An unrelated question. If we still had our qi suppression pills with us and we fed them to the guy before the fight, would that prevent him from using his technique?

You'd need a lot of those. There's another way, though. It's possible to temporarily seal his qi flow via pressure points, but I'm afraid that their point is for him to prove that he can be trusted with the neigong, which is why they are resorting to permanent measures if he fails the test.

To be fair he hasn't really misused it thus far outside of a few mistakes, but on the other hand the former practitioners all practiced it with good intentions in the beginning so that means nothing to Shaolin. He may yet fall, and become a monster too powerful for them to stop. The Abbot doesn't want to risk that. You can expect this trial to be the strictest they've ever conducted in correlation with the danger of the technique.

I won't say how exactly, but they (both Arhats and the Abbot) will be setting the bar pretty high and pushing the limits of what they're allowed to do. Remember, if he succeeds they're basically entrusting him with great power, so they will want to make sure he's responsible enough.

 

[Absinthe]

You raise your hands as the soldiers surround you. Yunzi stares at you in surprise. “What are you doing?” she hisses. You reply, “Trying not to make things worse, what does it look like? I’m sure if no one does anything rash-”

You hear a scream from behind you. Looking over your shoulder, you see Pang Xiaohu leaping onto the rooftops with his qinggong, having cut down a soldier that tried to apprehend him. “It was nice fighting with you, my friend! Let us meet again!” he shouts to you before he disappears on the other side of the building. Before the commotion from his escape has subsided, soldiers begin shouting and scattering from the other side, and you hear cries of “I’m sorry! I really didn’t mean to do it! I’m sorry for hitting you too! Sorry! Please forgive me!” as Xuxian too blasts his way clear in a panic and jumps to safety, heading for the city walls.

 

[treave]

If he cuts and runs, you fail the trial.

Well, technically.

 

[Tribute]

Is that a fail that will end up with crippled Jing?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Y'all think too much.

 

[Absinthe]

Since he came here obediently to obtain his punishment, I think he should face the abbot.

 

[treave]

Is that a fail that will end up with crippled Jing?

If he runs, probably not. They'd prefer him to be running and hiding than to be hurting people. They might ask you to finish the trial anyway just to test your capabilities, however. Since you're already warmed up and all.

I could roll for the very conflicted Xuxian's possible reaction in a trial failure choice, if you guys prefer to leave it up to chance. Could yet end up with better results than what would be otherwise. I'm nice like that.

 

[Tribute]

Have we ever had a die roll in this quest not end badly?

The last time I remember it was with Yang Xue and we got the worst possible result.

 

[Absinthe]

When we lost a technique and skill to Luoying Manor. Those losses ended up not affecting us too much.

 

[treave]

You guys did 'win' the 'Bai is a girl' secret dice roll, if you consider that winning.

 

[Absinthe]

When did you roll that die, out of curiosity?

Also, when Xuxian said he came because his master told him to, who did he mean? Abbot Fangci?

 

[treave]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/lp-cyoa-傳.85971/page-880#post-3247233

This post.

1= man 2 = man-woman 3 = woman

Also, when Xuxian said he came because his master told him to, who did he mean? Abbot Fangci?

He was referring to his Tibetan master for that part.

 

[Absinthe]

THERE WAS A 2 OUTCOME?!

 

[treave]

I rolled a 3-sided die, so... yeah.

 

[asxetos]

What would happen if you hadnt rolled a 3 and ZM's dust still hit BJ?

 

[treave]

The same choices would be offered, of course.

 

[Esquilax]

I'm going to give everyone a quick holler before the votes close. Nevill Baltika9 Fangshi Kipeci The Brazilian Slaughter Zero Credibility Smashing Axe

The quest compass that treave put together for us 'tards seems to point to several things in Xuxian's personality that will influence which match works best for him: first, when he initially found the manual, his pride made him keep his finding a secret because he was falling behind his peers.

“As a novice he was falling behind his brothers in martial prowess. But it was not the right thing to do, and that is the truth. His second mistake was in practicing the manual, and being unable to control its power. That lack of control will ruin him one day, and all those around him.”

The root of all suffering is attachment, a feeling that those of us who are waiting on an update for Dirge are well aware of. Xuxian coveted the manual, and part of him still wants to keep the power he's obtained. So I guess the answer is, which fight would really show how far Xuxian has come in terms of controlling himself? When Xuxian's secret was first discovered, it was because he had first injured a fellow monk, then later, the Abbot. So that ego part of him is still itching for the technique.

The question, then is, in which challenge would Xuxian be more likely to succumb to attachment? My impression is that the Abbot's overall greater toughness might just mean that Xuxian is more compelled to tap into his technique to defeat such a sturdy opponent. The Abbot would probably test him by trying to get him in a position where Xuxian is tempted to overpower him. On the other hand, because Xuxian knows the Arhat are individually more vulnerable, he may be more likely to err on the side of caution with his technique.

I am not sure, these are just impressions I've gotten from the text and it seems to go with the theme of temptation and being free from the material trappings of the world that Buddhist types like the Shaolin seem to go for. The late Abbot Fangzhang gave his own apprentices bad instructions that led them through a bunch of whorehouses, so maybe the answer is to put Xuxian in a situation where he must face more temptation, not less.

Any other thoughts before this closes down, guys?

 

[Absinthe]

Well, I guess we can look at the options and criteria and move on from there. I will make the assumption that Jing can handle either fight just fine. I'm positive Jing can take on the abbot by refusing to use his own dangerous moves (Jing is really good at the lack-of-self-preservation and the extreme-willpower things) and the 18 bronze arhat formation can always be defeated with Wuxiang Qiankun, if it comes to it. That lets us pin all of it on Xuxian, who indeed doubts his own abilities to pass both challenges.

The criteria is self-control. Xuxian is not allowed to hurt anyone, whether by accident or by aggression.
The skill is known to make people more careless and aggressive.

The two challenges are:

1. 18 Bronze Arhat Formation. Defeat everyone without injuring a single person.
2. Face the Abbot in single combat. Either defeat him without injuring him or (and treave says this is an important point) pass by restraining oneself from using the skill enough to lose the fight rather than use it.

Additional detail: they (both Arhats and the Abbot) will be setting the bar pretty high and pushing the limits of what they're allowed to do.

Now, avoiding accidents is a question of skill.
Self-control (avoiding aggression) is a question of humility and/or willpower.

If he has high skill and high self-control, either option will work for him. We know one of the A options will fail, though.
If he has weak skill and weak self-control, neither option will work for him. We know one of the A options will succeed, though.
If he has weak skill and high self-control, then facing the abbot is better because he can overcome that trial by sheer willpower or refusal to use one's strongest abilities. Both options will pressure him, but he has to win against the 18 bronze arhats, while he can afford to lose to the abbot.
If he has high skill and weak self-control, then either he will probably lose in both cases (because presumably they really intend on stressing and provoking him) or he might be able to win against just the 18 Bronze Arhats because as weaker individuals they provoke a less aggressive response.

So far we know the following about Xuxian's mistakes:
He has accidentally injured a fellow student. This could be aggression or error.
He has accidentally injured the abbot. This was fear and panic.

We also know the following about Xuxian's humility and/or willpower:
He was panicking and fiercely apologizing to everyone he injured at Tufan.
He returned to Shaolin to receive his punishment.

Additional detail:
Xuxian spared all his enemies on the way to Shaolin.

It is my impression that Xuxian is someone who fears really hurting other people and would thus sooner back down or run away than he would risk killing his enemies. I think it's also safe to say that Xuxian's skill, while improved, isn't extremely solid either. In that case, we have to trust his willpower and humility are sufficient.

So I think Xuxian is better off facing the abbot.

A2

 

[Tribute]

I'm honestly completely unsure which A to pick, and I won't be conscious when the debate is settled. Would flopping to Ax help any?

 

[Nevill]

I am not sure, these are just impressions I've gotten from the text and it seems to go with the theme of temptation and being free from the material trappings of the world that Buddhist types like the Shaolin seem to go for. The late Abbot Fangzhang gave his own apprentices bad instructions that led them through a bunch of whorehouses, so maybe the answer is to put Xuxian in a situation where he must face more temptation, not less.

What did the late Abbott wanted, though? I am pretty sure it wasn't to strengthen the resolve of his disciples. He wanted them to fall to the temptation and embrace the life in its fullest. The philosophy behind it was the exact opposite from what you are saying, so maybe this is not the example you want to cite.

I still have no idea which choice is the correct one. The technique itself promotes aggressiveness, or at least that is what Fangci seems to believe, and Xuxian does not amout to much without it. I made a guess that the less he has to rely on it to overcome the opponents, the less potential there is of things going horribly wrong, but that is far from a solid argument - and it is an open question which fight would put a greater pressure on him.

Overall, I do not feel confident enough to vote for A on a hunch.

I'm honestly completely unsure which A to pick, and I won't be conscious when the debate is settled. Would flopping to Ax help any?

The honest thing to do would be not voting if you are not sure. Ax is just a vote that does not care for winning or losing.

 

[asxetos]

Is there an updated tally?

 

[treave]

Current tally:

A1 - 9
A2 - 11
B - 12
C - 1

After flop:

A1 - 6
A2 - 12
B - 15

 

[Tribute]

Rereading that pile of quotes again, and judging by who was referred to in each one, it appears his pride/arrogance is mostly directed against his fellow monks (relating to not being their inferior), while most of his humility and respect is directed toward his teacher(s) (relating to not failing their teachings and losing their respect).

I think that Xuxian facing the Abbot is probably safer. He's less committed to this test as an expression of Buddhist ideals so much as he is to not failing/disappointing his teacher. Flopping to A2.

(Of course based on that tally I'd have flopped to A2 anyway, which would then get buried under B.)