[LP CYOA] Epic

[Anabanana]

CCA.
The naturally complement one another. Feeding false information to the Hittites to lead them into ambushes of our superior weaponry, while the same weaponry controls the Gutian raids and minimizes damage. Then we kill the traitors.
Yes, we'll take a hit to our reputation with the Assyrians, but staying our hand with the Gutians will avoid making us a villain in the eyes of our other subjects, especially Athena.
As for the navy, had our Empire already had iron as the dominant metal, I'd be all for it. As it stands, we'd better modernize and fast, if we're marching off to war again.

I'm voting this.

Smashing Axe reminded me that we already voted for the scientific method earlier, so it makes more sense to pursue a tech that will complement that. Still voting CC for the first two, but B for that last one.

Besides, according to our status update, we're now the strongest empire, military might-wise. Advances in iron can wait till later. There is also a chance that our pursuing of iron upgrades might make the people from the north feel threatened.

EDIT: ScubaV makes sense. Flopping to BCB.

 

[Stygian Lurker]

CCA.
The naturally complement one another. Feeding false information to the Hittites to lead them into ambushes of our superior weaponry, while the same weaponry controls the Gutian raids and minimizes damage. Then we kill the traitors.
Yes, we'll take a hit to our reputation with the Assyrians, but staying our hand with the Gutians will avoid making us a villain in the eyes of our other subjects, especially Athena.
As for the navy, had our Empire already had iron as the dominant metal, I'd be all for it. As it stands, we'd better modernize and fast, if we're marching off to war again.

I'm voting this.

 

[Smashing Axe]

I really like the idea of our people being literate, since further developments can spring rapidly from this if the scientific method is being employed, encouraging literacy in our followers also shows Athena that we care about seeing mankind progress. Well, it might at least. I think we also need to deliver an ultimatum to the Gutians, and then proceed to punish the Hittites for their transgressions against us.

AAB

I've reconsidered. Guys, I don't think a war is necessary here, at least not an extended bloody one. ScubaV has convinced me. If we put the Gutians in their place with B, which won't be an excessively extended conflict, we can stop. If we manipulate and feed information to the Hittites' spies then we'll have control of what they do, and can manipulate them to an action where war won't be necessary. Let's not start our reign as bloody conquerors. Yes, the Hittites are being dicks, but we don't need to start yet another war to counter them. This will also open us up to pursue social policy and increase literacy amongst our populace, as we won't need to pursue so hard of a war agenda. Also, we'll save our forces for when they're most needed.

BCB

 

[newcomer]

BCB

 

[Esquilax]

When I was voting, I initially contemplated voting for 1B because I didn't want another war so soon after the Aegean, but this new King thinks we're weak, and if we don't deal with him now, he might invade while we're in Greece fighting the Terasphagos. Our best bet is to take out the Hittites as fast as possible so that we can return to more important matters. They have a large army and their nation was untouched during the Aegean War, so we need to vassalize them and get them to commit troops to Olympus.

C: The Gutians aren't the problem, the Hittites are. In fact, a show of mercy here is a good idea - we should hire these same people out and send them to fortify Olympus, should we have the opportunity. Our rep might take a hit in Assyria, but I'd rather demonstrate to our other subjects like Athena that Ean is a fair ruler capable of mercy. I would much rather deal with a pissed off Assyria than a pissed off Athena.

Besides, I'm sure the Assyrians will be appeased once we behead Dapimsin on the streets of Ashur.

C: Fantastic idea, and this is another reason why you don't want all of those public executions. We could feed those administrators a ton of false info on troop positions, invasion plans, etc. and really use Dapimsin's contacts against him. The Hittites think that Ean is a weak Emperor - let them be convinced that's true. This will be great for the war effort.

A: Not surprisingly, this is the hardest one. B would strengthen the unity and culture of our empire and be a great extension of the Scientific Method update (not to mention, it would impress the Goddess of Wisdom), but we really need the war against the Hittites to go as quickly and smoothly as possible. Also, we do really need every edge we can get against the Terasphagos.

I'm very much willing to flop to B if I hear other arguments in favour. Storyfag?

B C B

 

[Kukulkan]

CCA

 

[Baltika9]

Why voting for 1C with 3B in tandem is not a good idea: think about it. We're about to start a war with a rather powerful Empire (treave did mention that, had we not had Jesus-only-better on our side, these guys would be a problem) while at the same time leaving the Assyrian border open to Gutian raids.
1A is not a good idea, period. If they refuse to surrender, which wouldn't be surprising, considering they already ignored use three times, we will be forced to exterminate them. And where does that get us? Certainly not into Athena's good graces. Plus, it would force us into a war on two fronts, which kinda reminds me of the Third Reich picking a fight with the Allies and ol' Joe.
Now, most of our armor is bronze, which would lead to meaningless, useless loss of life in both the invasion force and the defense force.
P.S.: If it weren't for Athena, I'd jam the closest equivalent of the Black Mamba up Dapimsin's ass when we caught him and force him to take a hike from Babylon to Memphis.

Esquilax: psst. Help me out here.

 

[treave]

Regarding the tech, you won't see much advances, if any, for nearly five more years at least for your choices. It takes a while to get started, you aren't going to be cranking out iron armor by the thousands or building public schools in each village or constructing an ocean going armada any time soon. It's at a faster (much faster) speed than this normally goes, but it's still a project that will take years to bear fruit.

Edit: Particularly if you are busy leading the troops in the front lines; that means you aren't around to help with teching up, meaning it will take an even longer time depending on the type of research you pick. But you guys already know that.

 

[ScubaV]

treave, how long has it been since the Aegean War? Has the military and populace recovered? Basically, I'm trying to get a sense for how well a war would be received. Remember guys, this would be a war of aggression not defense, at least against the Hittites. It also probably won't go over well with Athena, regardless of how the populace feels.

My votes for now are:
B - Put the Gutians in their place; we took out the main agitator so they should calm down after this. Ignore the Hittites for now, build up our internal strength and make them attack us if they want to antagonize further.
C - With Sekhenun close at hand, this is a golden opportunity to manipulate Dapimsin via misinformation.
B - With an intelligent, literate, and scientifically-minded populace, technology advances will come more quickly and easily in all areas, not just iron. Besides, we may be able to trade with the northern kingdom for the secret of their iron-production or at least for some of the iron itself. This option will also demonstrate to Athena our commitment to furthering humanity.

 

[treave]

It's been only about 6 years, and given the amount of fatalities on Marduk's siege of Olympus (just about everyone died or were lost when the rift formed) you are left with only about 20,000 soldiers throughout the entire empire. Most of those are new conscripts, some that haven't started shaving yet. Of that, 5000 are in Greece while the others are here and there abouts, patrolling and stuff. Raising more men at the moment would severely tax agricultural efforts. Though the Hittites have smaller territory, they can probably match your numbers... is what you can guess at from reports from merchants and other travelers.

Consider this option E: One just simply walks into the Hittite capital as a show of personal power.

 

[Kukulkan]

Let's do the earthquake attack in their capital.

 

[Smashing Axe]

Scuba, I think you've hit on a winner.

Option E just proposed by treave is tempting however...

 

[Baltika9]

I definitely see the merit in ScubaV's BCB plan: ignore the Hittites, subdue the Gutians by one last raid and focus on internal development, using the moles in our government to maneuver the Hittites into a position that would justify us attacking and subduing them (the "Pearl Harbor Maneuver"). The fact that the Gutians, yet again, may ignore us, forcing a genocide anyways notwithstanding, it is a very good plan.

However, we all know where this will lead: the Hittites are going to attack us anyway, leading to loss of our reputation and, most importantly, the lives of our citizens and soldiers. And I don't swing that way. Since we have all the justification that we need (seriously, they send moles into our government and conspire against us) to press our casus belli, all the men to wage a successful campaign and the opportunity for disinformation to launch a devastating first strike, I suggest we do it. Every moment that we wait to build up our forces, they do the same. Hell, if we are going to delay the war it makes more sense to research iron first and attack with a modernized military, than research education.

However, since treave said that we won't get a modern military immediately, I'm flopping to CCB.
ECB
"Shin'ar, FUCK YEAH! Freedom is the only way, yeah."

Edit: anyone who is considering bending over backwards for that cheap piece of Greek muni, that will stab us in the back as soon as she finds out Ean eats people and gets more evil by the second should be ashamed. We're the goddamn Emperor, she should be chasing us. Besides, we already have the One True Option:


Edit 2:

You're assuming that they're going to attack us anyway, I don't think it's inevitable, it's just an ambitious young king acting foolish and if we manipulate his intelligence sources sufficiently we can give him the idea that attacking us would be a very bad idea.

The main problem here is Dapimsin, he's not going to let it rest. Before treave proposed option E, I was thinking of starting this war to get to the sleazy fucker. Because it's better for their citizens to die then ours.
As it stands, we just bust in and take his ourself.

 

[TOME]

CCB

Third one is the only hard choice here. A would increase our military might and prepare us to battle the gieloths and I'm guessing that C would give a hefty bonus to trade and also a easier way to get to china. But B is the best for long term, and it should help us with Athena.

Btw. Couldn't we just assasinate Dapimsin and send a warning to the hittie king? Invading whole country for a few raiding party seems little extreme to me.

Edit: BCB

Might flop to ECB. E seems a bit dangerous though.

 

[Smashing Axe]

You're assuming that they're going to attack us anyway, I don't think it's inevitable, it's just an ambitious young king acting foolish and if we manipulate his intelligence sources sufficiently we can give him the idea that attacking us would be a very bad idea.

Even if they do attack despite our political maneuvering, how will fighting a defensive war cause a loss of reputation? If anything it'd give us enough justification to counter their attack and conquer their lands. As it is we're only acting on information provided by a Gutian tribe leader for our casus belli, Athena would look on this as just another cynical political maneuver by us to increase our own power. If it started as a war of defense, then I think she'd think us justified.

If they do persist in annoying us, then I'd be favour of option E. It shouldn't be too hard to cow the young king and convince him that we're "strong" enough to defend our land. If only by being able to break into his city, bust up his guards, and hold his life at knife point.

 

[Kukulkan]

CCA

Flopping first choice to E.

 

[Smashing Axe]

Edit: anyone who is considering bending over backwards for that cheap piece of Greek muni, that will stab us in the back as soon as she finds out Ean eats people and gets more evil by the second should be ashamed. We're the goddamn Emperor, she should be chasing us. Besides, we already have the One True Option:

She won't stab us in the back if she's convinced that we're worthy, and I think it's still possible to have her think that we are. Don't dismiss the value of a loyal immortal queen god, especially when the rest of the world is against us at this point. At the moment we can only call on a paltry two Gieloth as our supernatural aides, when Marduk had what, twelve? Zeus had a whole pantheon. The more allies we have, the better. Don't discount their value. We may be able to take down anyone in the world one-on-one at this point, but any immortals or gieloth that decide to team up against us will be able to send us to our deaths.

Edit:

The main problem here is Dapimsin, he's not going to let it rest. Before treave proposed option E, I was thinking of starting this war to get to the sleazy fucker. Because it's better for their citizens to die then ours.
As it stands, we just bust in and take his ourself.

He's not king in actuality, yes he has great influence, but that doesn't mean the king will listen if Dapimsin advises him to jump into a pit of boiling lava. Feeding false information to the king's spies should have this effect.

 

[treave]

It is possible to work in a warning to the Hittites that you're on to them in the case of option B. Though some may prefer that they not know you're on to them.

Option E will just have you showing off why you are the God Emperor with a capital G, though standing out has its disadvantages.

 

[Esquilax]

treave's clarification and ScubaV's excellent plan have swayed me.

I agree with Smashing Axe completely. The loyalty of Athena is worth more than an entire army. We need her, and not caring about establishing a good relationship with her is so fucking stupid that I can't believe that anyone would consider it a good idea.

We can't wage another war with the Terasphagos threat nearby and only six years removed from the devastation of the Aegean conflict. We've already opened up a war front in Greece, we can't open yet another one with the Terasphagos threat right there. Expanding so quickly is liable to ruin our fledgling Empire before it's barely had a chance to progress.

As badass as 1E sounds, I am firmly against it. Launching a one-man assault against the Hittites is reckless and does nothing to improve the state of our Empire. Baltika9, 1E doesn't make sense in conjunction with 2C - if Ean's just going to waltz into Hittite lands on his own and take out their leadership on his own, why bother with using Dapimsin's moles against him to begin with? You won't need them. If you want to vote 1E, then 2A or 2B make much more sense.

Also, there's the question of aftermath; we kill the Hittite King and Dapimsin, but what do we do about the rest of the army, how do we stabilize the rest of the region, etc.? I don't want to invade and have it result in an Iraq situation where we become bogged down in stabilizing the Hittites while we have another war front to deal with. There's no proper plan here after the initial assault, which is why it's stupid. Worst of all, it spreads the empire far too thin: while we have firm control over Sumeria and Egypt, we have very little control over Greece and if we try to conquer the Hittites, we'll have even less control. We can't afford to conquer so much.

However, 1B + 2C are a great combination for a defensive war should the Hittites attempt to invade. We'll be ready to counter their plans by keeping track of Dapimsin's spies. It'll be as simple as letting them think that our border is completely undefended, then ambushing their entire army with thousands of our men. They'll break and sue for peace in no time.

Alternatively, Sekhenun could manipulate the spies into into having Dapimsin think that our Empire is far stronger than he previously imagined. If he's convinced that our Empire is too strong, we could avoid a war altogether. I'd really much rather avoid the possibility of war altogether with the Terasphagos threat to worry about and being only six years removed from the Aegean War.

I also want to give another argument in favour of 3B:

You focus on teaching every citizen in the empire to be able to read, write and count. You do not demand that they are able to speak more than one language, but they should at least be able to read and write in the language of the place they stayed in, as well as understand the basic principle of arithmetic.

Remember that we made Greece part of our kingdom. A social policy like this will advance the quality of life of Athena's people, as well as ours. A Goddess of Wisdom is sure to appreciate the value of education, and she'll begin to see a far better side of us.

 

[Baltika9]

Edit: anyone who is considering bending over backwards for that cheap piece of Greek muni, that will stab us in the back as soon as she finds out Ean eats people and gets more evil by the second should be ashamed. We're the goddamn Emperor, she should be chasing us. Besides, we already have the One True Option:

She won't stab us in the back if she's convinced that we're worthy, and I think it's still possible to have her think that we are. Don't dismiss the value of a loyal immortal queen god, especially when the rest of the world is against rus at this point. At the moment we can only call on a paltry two Gieloth as our supernatural aides, when Marduk had what, twelve? Zeus had a whole pantheon. The more allies we have, the better. Don't discount their value.

I'm not discounting her as an ally. In fact she is a very valuable one and I respect her ability, and want her on our side. She's pretty much a carbon copy of Ean when he served Sargon. It's almost adorable.
It's the "lets chase Athena" instead of "let Athena chase Ean" I'm opposing. We're the Emperor and we have much more important shit to do.

Also, another merit of option E: the beauty of it is in us not needing to kill anyone at all. All we have to do is sneak into wherever Dapimsin is and retrieve him and leave a note to the King in his bedroom and, voila, problem=solved. Also, I think Sekhenun needs some fresh air and we need someone to watch our back.

Edit: Esquilax, we just execute them all together. Makes a much better show. We just spread the news that we're off for a vacation and that's it. Plus, we can use the moles to get Dapimsin right where we want him.

Edit 2: judging by all the delicious rage I'm causing, I'm quite the accomplished troll.
Y u mad, bros?
Edit 3: when I was talking about marriage, I wanted to do that for purely political reasons, the fast and dirty way. Right now, Ean is a busy man. Chasing women is not the best way to spend his time. Besides, it's better for him to get an ordinary harem, since Immortal couples reproduce every hundred years or so, if I remember treave's words correctly.
Now, if Athena comes to Ean and starts acting all sultry and honey-sweet, or at least shows interest, sure, why not. And before anyone starts pointing out my Sekhenun obsession, yes, the same rules apply to her.

 

[Azira]

treave, how long has it been since the Aegean War? Has the military and populace recovered? Basically, I'm trying to get a sense for how well a war would be received. Remember guys, this would be a war of aggression not defense, at least against the Hittites. It also probably won't go over well with Athena, regardless of how the populace feels.

My votes for now are:
B - Put the Gutians in their place; we took out the main agitator so they should calm down after this. Ignore the Hittites for now, build up our internal strength and make them attack us if they want to antagonize further.
C - With Sekhenun close at hand, this is a golden opportunity to manipulate Dapimsin via misinformation.
B - With an intelligent, literate, and scientifically-minded populace, technology advances will come more quickly and easily in all areas, not just iron. Besides, we may be able to trade with the northern kingdom for the secret of their iron-production or at least for some of the iron itself. This option will also demonstrate to Athena our commitment to furthering humanity.

I endorse this one. My vote is similar.
BCB

 

[Baltika9]

Anyways, with treave's E I have composed a plan. I'll just leave it here for general consideration.
E- Ean sneaks into the Hittite king's palace, retrieves Dapimsin and has a heart-to heart chat with the king, as in "Here's the deal: you don't touch me and I don't touch you" And leaves without any casualties, knocking out anyone who gets in the way. Deadly force is a last resort.
C- We use the spies to get Dapimsin and the Hittite king in one place and spread disinformation that Ean will be inspecting some castles and places here and there. Then, once we get back, we publicly execute the lot of them together.
B- best option now that we avoid a war.
Back to CCB.
Edit: treave, what's Sekhenun condition in regards to power right now? Is she on par with an ordinary human? If an Immortal attacks her, does she stand a chance?

Storyfag: Sure, no problem.

 

[Tigranes]

BCB for now, I have yet to see anything better. E sounds badass, but also a lot of things could go wrong.

 

[Storyfag]

I'm late to todays voting party, it seems - everything's been said.

BCB

Edit: Baltika9, would you please stop editing your posts to quote LATER posters? Makes following a conversation fucking anoying.

 

[Kipeci]

C. is a clear choice for the first option. The Hittites are a threat to our interests; they inspire Gutian raids against our Assyrian subjects, cut off Greece from the rest of the Empire, and have obvious ambitions to take off bits of the new empire for themselves. Everyone who believes that this will distract too much from the Terasphagos, consider this: Greece is right next to the Hittites and even with our help is still a devastated land, cut off from the rest of our empire by the seas and with most of the soldiers there stationed around some pit. If they launched an attack, it wouldn't be too hard for them to conquer Greece at the present. That would, obviously, be Bad News for keeping the Terasphagos under control. They are simultaneously softening up our Assyrian lands with the Gutians as a distraction-- if we take the time to seriously deal with the Gutians, they could very well go for Greece while we're away. If we don't do anything, that sets the scene for them to say that they can provide the Assyrians with the military strength to hold off the Gutians. We need to take care of this threat now. With the Hittite threat gone, we can concentrate on the Gutians if they dare to continue. Also, remember: while treave said that the Hitties would be quite a match for the empire without the assistance of the Emperor, we absolutely have the Emperor around and he's freer to take care of this threat now than he probably will be later when other complications start popping up. Their two-bit king is no match for Emperor Ean.

C. for a second choice is better if it works-- the mind reading skills should help here. If we can't convince them to spread the misinformation, then kill them, but be discrete about it.

B. This sort of mass literacy program is excellent, it will assist vastly with our cultural and technical advancement even if we aren't personally around to guide people. Given that we're all about making the people more self-sufficient, this is absolutely the option to take. I would like to encourage iron to be at the literal cutting edge of war technology, sure, but that'll spread on its own eventually while I don't believe anyone around us has any sort of scheme such as this. In the long run, promoting education will result in our empire being the strongest around. Athena will probably also like this a great deal for promoting this-- on the chance that she'd be pissed off at us invading the Hittites (which seems unlikely, given that Greece would probably suffer the most under expansionism from them...), this will probably result in her still thinking somewhat better of us.

EDIT: If we are able to tell that we can rely on the discovered spies to transmit misinformation about our military strength and reasonably inflate the ambitious king's idea of our level of threat, though, I could stand for only doing B as the first option.